2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Falcon]

A quick Papelbon take from the outside looking in, it seems an underlying element of the Sox letting him walk
(beyond the $$$$/years) was "bad clubhouse guy". 

Bowden, Kennedy and a few others nationally seem to echo this sentiment.

What's the story guys?

[faldor]

A quick Papelbon take from the outside looking in, it seems an underlying element of the Sox letting him walk
(beyond the $$$$/years) was "bad clubhouse guy". 

Bowden, Kennedy and a few others nationally seem to echo this sentiment.

What's the story guys?

I don't know if I agree with that.  I actually view him as a great clubhouse guy.  Obviously I'm not in the clubhouse so I can't say for certain, but I haven't heard of him being a problem.  He was well liked amongst his teammates, or at least it seemed.  The one thing I could say is he was one of "the idiots" and he seemingly liked to party, but none of that took away from his performance on the field.  Maybe the team felt differently, but I see this strictly as a money/years issue and nothing to do with character.  He was great with the media, a stand up guy, couldn't really ask for much more.

[LongGoneDay]

A quick Papelbon take from the outside looking in, it seems an underlying element of the Sox letting him walk
(beyond the $$$$/years) was "bad clubhouse guy". 

Bowden, Kennedy and a few others nationally seem to echo this sentiment.

What's the story guys?

Yeah I agree with Faldor, that seems a bit out of left field.

One of the great things about him was that whether he pitched lights out, or shit the bed, he was always accountable. He would stand in front of the camera and take his medicine.
That's huge here in Boston, because the media is relentless, and if they don't get the answers they are looking for from the source, then you can count on them going down the line with each and every other teammate until they do. Damon and Millar were other great examples of that when Sox were contenders. Something Sox are sorely lacking now.

Who knows, maybe there is more to the story than we know, but I'm calling bullshit.
Hopefully it's not the customary smear campaign the Sox love to run with when they let good players get away...

[Falcon]

Thanks for the insight guys, interesting.

I heard a bit more of the same today on MLB Radio, paraphrasing:

"The Sox wanted nothing to do with him moving forward considering the asking price and clubhouse issues, both were major factors in letting him walk without batting an eye."

[LongGoneDay]

Thanks for the insight guys, interesting.

I heard a bit more of the same today on MLB Radio, paraphrasing:

"The Sox wanted nothing to do with him moving forward considering the asking price and clubhouse issues, both were major factors in letting him walk without batting an eye."

It'll be interesting to hear if more gets out.
Maybe there is something to it, because Nick Cafardo, a boston sports writer is reporting that the Sox are kicking the tires on Madson.
He is probably going to command a similar deal, so why would the Sox pass on a proven commodity here, then turn around and shell out big money on an unknown?
Unless they think Madson is a better option, which the stats don't back up, and his own team didn't agree with...

[Falcon]

Thanks for the insight guys, interesting.

I heard a bit more of the same today on MLB Radio, paraphrasing:

"The Sox wanted nothing to do with him moving forward considering the asking price and clubhouse issues, both were major factors in letting him walk without batting an eye."

It'll be interesting to hear if more gets out.
Maybe there is something to it, because Nick Cafardo, a boston sports writer is reporting that the Sox are kicking the tires on Madson.
He is probably going to command a similar deal, so why would the Sox pass on a proven commodity here, then turn around and shell out big money on an unknown?
Unless they think Madson is a better option, which the stats don't back up, and his own team didn't agree with...

I've heard the Madson fodder as well, seems to back up the conspiracy theories regarding Papelbon's falling out of organizational favor.

Appparently the entire organization needed an enema, too bad the flush out has been played out in such public manner - very unfortunate.

[faldor]

Thanks for the insight guys, interesting.

I heard a bit more of the same today on MLB Radio, paraphrasing:

"The Sox wanted nothing to do with him moving forward considering the asking price and clubhouse issues, both were major factors in letting him walk without batting an eye."

It'll be interesting to hear if more gets out.
Maybe there is something to it, because Nick Cafardo, a boston sports writer is reporting that the Sox are kicking the tires on Madson.
He is probably going to command a similar deal, so why would the Sox pass on a proven commodity here, then turn around and shell out big money on an unknown?
Unless they think Madson is a better option, which the stats don't back up, and his own team didn't agree with...

Yeah, I will say, if they end up signing ANY closer for anything near what Papelbon got, then THAT would be a bad move.  I am of the belief that NO closer other than Rivera is worth that kind of money, so I agreed with them not giving that kind of a contract to Pap.  But if they go and sign someone else to a similar contract, that would make no sense to me.  Like I said before, I think there are 5-10 closers in Papelbon's league and NONE of them are worth that money.

[tim_m]

According to an article on MLB.com players and owners are close to a preliminary agreement on a new CBA. It appears that part of it includes approving the sale of the Astros and moving them from the NL central to the AL west. Also, an added wild card team in each league with a one game play in. It will likely go into effect for 2013 season since the schedule for 2012 is already finalized. So this likely means a balanced schedule and interleague year round. What's everyone's thoughts?

[Falcon]

According to an article on MLB.com players and owners are close to a preliminary agreement on a new CBA. It appears that part of it includes approving the sale of the Astros and moving them from the NL central to the AL west. Also, an added wild card team in each league with a one game play in. It will likely go into effect for 2013 season since the schedule for 2012 is already finalized. So this likely means a balanced schedule and interleague year round. What's everyone's thoughts?

1. The Astros to the AL, not cool.  If anyone goes it should be the DBacks.
2. No more Wild Cards, 1 is plenty.
3. Interleague play year round makes me wanna puke.  Beyond the outcome of this years World Series I loved that the Cards/Rangers hadn't played each other, (since 2004) added mystique to the fall classic.

[tim_m]

Yeah, the reason it would be the Astros is cause of that division being the only with 6. I don't see another way you could have 6 divisions with 5 teams each without major realignment.

The extra wild card seems pointless. I mean a one game playoff to see who plays the wild card team with the better record?

I knew you wouldn't like that. I do enjoy the interleague play though. It will be nice to see a balanced schedule at least.

[Falcon]

Yeah, the reason it would be the Astros is cause of that division being the only with 6. I don't see another way you could have 6 divisions with 5 teams each without major realignment.

Simple solution, move the DBacks and reposition the Astros to the NL West.

It will be nice to see a balanced schedule at least.

I prefer the unbalanced schedule, playing teams within your division more has always made sense to me.

[sandman]

Papelbon to the Phillies, 4 years/$50 mil??

Thoughts sandman?

i HATE it.

i didn't reply earlier cause i try not to let my emotions get the best of me. but the more i think about it the more i hate it. and thinking about the phillies today has my blood boiling.
i think it's too much to pay for a closer (not named rivera). they can break down, they can decline, etc. he's not young and plenty of teams have done just fine with cheaper options for their closers. and "cheaper" sounds negative, but the more appropriate word is "smarter." and i believe there are a number of "smarter" options out there.

but what really hurts about this deal is that we could have signed madson for a little less moeny. still a huge committment to a closer, but i honestly believe madson will be the better pitcher of the two over the next 3-4 years. from what i understand about papelbon, he has turned into a one pitch pony. Madson has three effective pitches.

i also think its a bad dynamic when you let a home grown player (who played a HUGE role in winning you a world series and is in the prime of his career) walk. and you bring in an outsider who will be making more money than alot of players on the team.  

[Falcon]

Papelbon to the Phillies, 4 years/$50 mil??

Thoughts sandman?

i HATE it.

That seems to be the universal opinion unfortunately, just seems like a bad fit all around.

What's the word going around if Philly on why they dropped the ball on Madson?  All the early reports had him resigning - seemed to make all the sense in the world.

[tim_m]

eport: Astros sale hinged on AL move

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ESPN.com news services

HOUSTON -- Major League Baseball told Houston businessman Jim Crane it would not approve his purchase of the Houston Astros unless he agreed to move the team to the American League, The Associated Press has learned.

Crane was forced to agree to move the sale along, a person familiar with the negotiations said Wednesday on condition of anonymity because no official announcement has been made by MLB or the Astros. Approval of the sale could be announced as early as Thursday at a meeting of baseball executives in Milwaukee.

Crane will receive a $70 million discount off the $680 million purchase price in exchange for moving the Astros to the AL in 2013, with McLane and MLB contributing $35 million each to the discount, an MLB official with knowledge of the talks said, according to the Houston Chronicle.

The MLB Players Association believes two 15-team leagues would create a more proportionate schedule and has urged baseball to make the switch. With schedules for next season already completed, the earliest such a move could take place is 2013.

Time is running out for approval of the deal: Crane has said that his offer, which was announced on May 16, will expire Nov. 30.

An MLB spokesman did not immediately return messages seeking comment, though commissioner Bud Selig addressed an Astros' move during a Twitter chat on Monday.

"For 15/15 realignment, Houston would be the team moving to AL West. Would create more fairness in baseball," Selig said via the Colorado Rockies Twitter feed. He also added that "15 teams in each league would necessitate interleague play every day but it will be better schedule overall."

The Astros currently play in the six-team NL Central. The AL West is the only league in the majors with four teams -- the Texas Rangers, Los Angeles Angels, Oakland Athletics and Seattle Mariners.

The Astros, members of the National League since they joined the majors as an expansion team in 1962, would be in a division with in-state rival Texas. But fans are unhappy that the other three teams are all on the West Coast, meaning many road games would routinely end past midnight Central time.

Drayton McLane bought the team in November 1992 for about $117 million and put the franchise up for sale in November. He turned down an offer from Crane to buy the team in 2008.

The $680 million sale price is the second-highest in major league history, trailing the $845 million purchase of the Chicago Cubs by the Ricketts family two years ago. The $660 million sale of the Boston Red Sox in 2002 currently is second. Like the Astros' deal, the Cubs and Red Sox transactions included related entities.

A major selling point in Houston was the Astros' share in a new deal with the NBA's Houston Rockets to create a regional sports network that will begin airing Rockets games in 2012 and the Astros in 2013. Crane has said the team's 30-year lease at Minute Maid Park, which is owned by the Harris County Houston Sports Authority, will remain intact under his ownership.

Crane, who founded a Houston-based logistics company in 2008, is also the chairman and chief executive of Crane Capital, a private equity fund company. In 2009, he was in the running to buy the Cubs and last summer teamed with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban in an unsuccessful bid to buy the Rangers.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Looks like its pretty much a done deal. Astros to the AL west starting 2013 and interleague play daily.

[Falcon]

Looks like its pretty much a done deal. Astros to the AL west starting 2013 and interleague play daily.

What's next, the pitcher not hitting and an exhibitiion game deciding home field advantage in the World Series?

It's anarchy, cats and dogs will be sleeping together before we know it.

[tim_m]

Looks like its pretty much a done deal. Astros to the AL west starting 2013 and interleague play daily.

What's next, the pitcher not hitting and an exhibitiion game deciding home field advantage in the World Series?

It's anarchy, cats and dogs will be sleeping together before we know it.

I can't see the NL agreeing to a DH anytime soon lol. We kinda already have the latter though. 


I see no mention of the two added playoff teams with one game play in. I assume that will happen as well.

[Falcon]

It's a done deal.

'Stros to the AL West, another Wild Card and 30, count 'em 30 - interleague games that will be played everyday throughout the season.

I swear to the baseball Gods if they try to force the the NL to adopt the DH I will hang myself from a rope made up of the Cards 11 World Series championship banners.

[Falcon]

Faldor, LGD - has it really come to this in Boston?

Bobby Valentine?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/17/red-sox-owners-have-met-with-bobby-valentine?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[faldor]

I don't think Bobby V is a serious candidate for the Sox. It appears Dale Sveum is their guy, but the Cubs are also quite interested. So if he chooses Chicago, and I think he might, the search will continue. I don't give Bobby V much of a shot though.

[Falcon]

I don't think Bobby V is a serious candidate for the Sox. It appears Dale Sveum is their guy, but the Cubs are also quite interested. So if he chooses Chicago, and I think he might, the search will continue. I don't give Bobby V much of a shot though.

Sveum did indeed choose the Cubs, hired earlier today - presser tomorrow morning at Wrigley.

I hope they don't turn to Valentine, I realize the Sox are in some serious disarray but there's no way in hell they could be that bad off.