2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[pilferk]

Screw you mother nature. This is getting fucking ridiculous how many yankee games have been affected this season by rain. Its not looking great for Saturday or Sunday either. Now Verlander or Sabathia can likely go tomorrow. Sabathia possibly cause he threw less pitches but if not who pitches tomorrow's resumed game? The game 2 starters? Game 3?

It'll be Nova vs. Fister.  CC and Verlander will face off in game 3 now.  So both teams are in the same boat.  Actually the Tigers are at a bit more of a disadvantage because they set tonights lineup to face a LEFTY, and now when they resume they'll be facing a RIGHTY.  For all you purists out there, however big a difference that might be.

I'm not sure I agree it's advantage Yanks.  You only get CC ONCE now, because even on short rest he couldn't go for game 5.

Were I Joe...I think I'd pitch CC in game 2 on Sunday (treating his 25 pitches last night as a side day).  Then he can go on short rest for game 5, if you need him.

But it doesn't look like that's the way it's going to go.  I think that's a MAJOR disadvantage for the Yanks...because I think where Detroit has the biggest advantage is in their 3/4 starters, which are now going to have a LOT bigger impact in outcome.  For the Yanks, their #4 guy wasn't even going to take the mound in this series.

[sandman]

Guys, not that I'm biased or anything [ ], but I'm not getting all the hysteria over Jose Reyes.  Sure, I understand he's not exactly popular outside of Queens and it's always fun to take a dig at anything Mets-related, but he didn't do anything just about any other player wouldn't have done or hasn't been done in the past. 

He didn't put himself above the team.  It was a meaningless game and the Mets have never had a guy win the batting title, so him winning it meant more to the team than that game.  Not that I personally care much about the batting "title".  Seems very arbitrary that to pick one stat that, if you're the leader in, you get the 'title' or you're the 'champ'.  Why no Homerun Champ?  Also, this probably drives up the price to re-sign him, so I'm not really looking forward to $20M a year for extended DL stints. 

Anyway, for better or worse, in all sports, competition stops once the outcome is in hand.  When a football team has a late 4th quarter lead, they sit on the ball and run out the clock.  This was no different. 

i disagree. i'm not a Reyes fan and this is just evidence that he is a first class D-bag.

the mets organization is a disgrace, and i'd be ashamed to have anything to do with it. and i love that the Phillies basically sent them into this hole 4 years ago and they have just sunk lower and lower ever since. with a new stadium and huge payroll, these should be the glory days. but instead its one of the worst times in their history.

[sandman]

i was thinking the same thing about Faldor. hang in there dude.  all of our teams except for one will be eliminated at some point. time to focus all your attention on the upcoming GnR shows.

Hopefully he's off somewhere sleeping one off.  If ever someone deserved to go on a drinking binge...it's Sox fans after last night.

You were pretty close.  I did a little drinking last night during the game.  Had some friends over and it was looking like they'd be celebratory beers for most of the night.  I mean, Rays down 7-0 with ONE hit through 6 innings.  Couldn't ask for much more.  I was worried about the Sox only scoring 3 runs though, I just knew that wouldn't be enough, and sure enough it wasn't. 

In all honestly, I've never been so relieved for a season to be over.  They were so hard to watch and root for down the stretch.  They just didn't deserve to be in the playoffs, point blank.  And the Rays deserve it tenfold.  To come back like that, down to their last strike.  A pinch hit homerun.  The night before getting a triple play with the bases loaded.  I mean, it sure seemed like they were destined to make it.  And EVERYTHING that could go wrong, went wrong for the Sox, so they seemed destined NOT to make it.

And I agree with LongGoneDay.  If this loss occurred in 2002, I'd be near suicide right now.  I remember the epic game 7 loss to the Yanks in 2003, after Boone hit the game winner I shut the TV off and stared at a blank screen for abount 10 minutes in complete silence.  But honestly, this loss was no big thing.  I've been blessed with plenty of championships this past decade, I can handle the tough losses easier these days.  Well, at least this one.  The last few tough Patriots losses have still stung quite a bit.  But this one was such a long time coming, such an epic collapse, and such a tough team to root for.  So, it really wasn't tough to get over.  I was fine a minute after the O's scored the winning run.  I knew the Rays were going to win after that.

It's all good, good luck to all your respective teams in the playoffs.  Should be some good baseball.

Faldor - glad you were doing well. i can certainly relate to that feeling. i went 25 years (from the time i was 8 until 33) with no championships in philly, with teams in all 4 major sports. i always told Red Sox fans that philly fans were FAR more tortured. but once the phils won in 2008, big losses these days are so much easier to take. i'm a really big flyers fan and their loss in 2010 hurt, but i would have been suicidal without the phils title 2 years before.

[faldor]

Screw you mother nature. This is getting fucking ridiculous how many yankee games have been affected this season by rain. Its not looking great for Saturday or Sunday either. Now Verlander or Sabathia can likely go tomorrow. Sabathia possibly cause he threw less pitches but if not who pitches tomorrow's resumed game? The game 2 starters? Game 3?

It'll be Nova vs. Fister.  CC and Verlander will face off in game 3 now.  So both teams are in the same boat.  Actually the Tigers are at a bit more of a disadvantage because they set tonights lineup to face a LEFTY, and now when they resume they'll be facing a RIGHTY.  For all you purists out there, however big a difference that might be.

I'm not sure I agree it's advantage Yanks.  You only get CC ONCE now, because even on short rest he couldn't go for game 5.

Were I Joe...I think I'd pitch CC in game 2 on Sunday (treating his 25 pitches last night as a side day).  Then he can go on short rest for game 5, if you need him.

But it doesn't look like that's the way it's going to go.  I think that's a MAJOR disadvantage for the Yanks...because I think where Detroit has the biggest advantage is in their 3/4 starters, which are now going to have a LOT bigger impact in outcome.  For the Yanks, their #4 guy wasn't even going to take the mound in this series.

Looks like CC is lobbying hard to pitch tomorrow so he could pitch game 5 if necessary.  Verlander seems less eager for the quick turnaround. 

I've been knocking the Yankees staff other than CC all year, but I don't see the Tigers having any advantage in the 3/4 starters.  Scherzer has good stuff but is highly inconsistent, see AJ Burnett.  Garcia throws junk, but he's been successful this year.  I realize "junk" doesn't usually work too well in the post-season, but still.  And I doubt Rick Porcello strikes fear into the Yankee hitters.

[cotis]

Got rained on last night, but will be heading back tonight for Game 1 Part Deux and then tomorrow afternoon for Game 2 in the Bronx!

[faldor]

http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/120159655350636544

@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
#Yankees' Cashman: Sabathia will start Game 3. Team has ruled out CC pitching tmrw coming off 27 pitches last night and 48 in warmup. #MLB

[tim_m]

http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/120159655350636544

@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
#Yankees' Cashman: Sabathia will start Game 3. Team has ruled out CC pitching tmrw coming off 27 pitches last night and 48 in warmup. #MLB

So i assume the rotation will end up looking like this for the series. Nova, Garcia, Sabathia, Burnett then Nova for a possible game 5. With those 3 going in the first 3 games i think we have a legit chance to win those games. If it goes 4 or 5 then i get nervous, but, i would be more nervous about game 4 then 4 even with Nova on short rest. Unless Girardi plans on letting Hughes make a start cause he doesn't want a rookie on short rest but that's unlikely.

[tim_m]

Well that game went to hell in a hand basket quick for the Cardinals.

[tim_m]

Robinson Cano! with the grandslam knock out punch. With how Nova is pitching and our bullpen forget about it. What a relief performance tonight from Nova, this kid is impressive 6 1/3 of 4 hit ball just got a little tired after getting the first out in the 9th.

[Jbat81]

Guys, not that I'm biased or anything [ ], but I'm not getting all the hysteria over Jose Reyes.  Sure, I understand he's not exactly popular outside of Queens and it's always fun to take a dig at anything Mets-related, but he didn't do anything just about any other player wouldn't have done or hasn't been done in the past. 

He didn't put himself above the team.  It was a meaningless game and the Mets have never had a guy win the batting title, so him winning it meant more to the team than that game.  Not that I personally care much about the batting "title".  Seems very arbitrary that to pick one stat that, if you're the leader in, you get the 'title' or you're the 'champ'.  Why no Homerun Champ?  Also, this probably drives up the price to re-sign him, so I'm not really looking forward to $20M a year for extended DL stints. 

Anyway, for better or worse, in all sports, competition stops once the outcome is in hand.  When a football team has a late 4th quarter lead, they sit on the ball and run out the clock.  This was no different. 

i disagree. i'm not a Reyes fan and this is just evidence that he is a first class D-bag.

the mets organization is a disgrace, and i'd be ashamed to have anything to do with it. and i love that the Phillies basically sent them into this hole 4 years ago and they have just sunk lower and lower ever since. with a new stadium and huge payroll, these should be the glory days. but instead its one of the worst times in their history.

Im a Yankees fan living in "Red Sucks" nation. Now, about Reyes sitting down AFTER a bunt single is pathetic to me. Miguel Cabrera was fighting for the title also and he played the whole game. He won it for the AL. It reminds me of Ted Williams playing the whole game when .400 was on the line. Matter fact, i think is was a double-header.  If he, Reyes, is a .337 hitter, he shouldn't be sacred to play!!!

Anyway, Yankees won last night easier then I thought. If Freddy wins or at least gives a quality start(i hate that btw), It might be over in Game 3 if  CC does pitch... Lets hope so.

[pilferk]

I've been knocking the Yankees staff other than CC all year, but I don't see the Tigers having any advantage in the 3/4 starters.  Scherzer has good stuff but is highly inconsistent, see AJ Burnett.  Garcia throws junk, but he's been successful this year.  I realize "junk" doesn't usually work too well in the post-season, but still.  And I doubt Rick Porcello strikes fear into the Yankee hitters.

Thankfully, Nova was brilliant last night and the bullpen didn't muck things up too badly (though it would have been nice for Mo to stay in the pen)...which means Garcia pitching today isn't QUITE as critical.  They either head to Detroit with tied 1-1, with CC on the mound OR they head to Detroit up 2-0 with CC on the mound.  I'm OK with both those scenarios.

The issue is Garcia's junk works against bad lineups...not so great against really good lineups.  And AJ is....AJ.  Detroit could throw a chimp throwing it's own shit out there and AJ could be worse.  Not would be...but it would be 50/50, at best.

I think the win last night puts the Yanks in the drivers seat.  We'll see how today goes.  I would NOT be confident, if the Tigers won the next 2, having to depend on AJ to save the season.  That would be BAD.

[tim_m]

He sure was brilliant. The kid never ceases to amaze me. He has ice in his veins. You just can't rattle or scare him in any situation. The kid is for real.

[AxlsMainMan]

The Yankees have suspended longtime beer vendor Steve Lazarus for the first two games of the American League Division Series for having a laugh with Red Sox reliever Alfredo Aceves.

During the break in between games at last week's doubleheader, Lazarus, 53, who works as a stand-up comedian when he isn't selling drinks at the stadium, saw Aceves near a freight elevator.

The vendor walked over and called out, "Hey, you got ID?"

Aceves, the former Yankee, went along with the playful banter as he grabbed his crotch and said, "I got your ID right here."

That exchange cost Lazarus, who has been a vendor with the Yankees since he was 19. He spoke with the New York Post after hearing of his suspension.

"They take my badge -- this is only my 35th year, by the way -- and they escort me out like a common criminal," Lazarus said. "To suspend me, when I did nothing? The vendor is always wrong, I'm so fed up."

Lazarus, who also wrote the book titled The Pope and Me at Yankee Stadium, said he frequently donates the proceeds of book sales and performs stand-up to benefit charities that are associated with the Yankees.

Unfortunately for Lazarus, he missed out on more than just two playoff games. Because of the suspended game one Friday night, Lazarus lost out on three nights of potential profits.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/10/yankees-suspend-beer-vendor-for-joking-with-alfredo-aceves.html

[LongGoneDay]

Red Sox... I think Epstein's got to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.  He's been very good for them during his tenure, but the Crawford and Lackey signings are indefensible.  Also, on A-Gon, the consensus was that was a great move, but was it really?  Last year, they had Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd.  After the trade, Youk goes to 3rd and now A-Gon at 1st.  A marginal Beltre to A-Gon offensive upgrade and a massive downgrade defensively from Beltre to Youk at 3rd.  And they lost high-level prospects in the trade.

Beltre has had a great past 2 seasons, but I don't think he had been consistent enough to lock up to a long term deal. He was a bust in Seattle, and really only had one great year prior, contract year.
Not taking away what he did here, he was fun to watch, but he did his damage from the 7 spot. He was clearly comfortable, but things may have been different if he truly had to be relied upon. There was really no pressure on him while he was here. Gonzalez on the other hand has been on eof the most consistent hitters in MLB, and is on a short list of the best in the business. He has insane stats, that he put up in a nightmare for hitters park. In just his first year in Boston, with protection, he had the highest average most of the year. That was his only knock in SD. He still strikes out more than you'd like, but I think he is going to be an absolute beast for years to come. Now that he knows what to expect, I'm thinking he's gonna have a monster year next year. Similar to Cabrera after switching leagues. An offseason to help that shoulder won't hurt either.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I will anyway!
Sox should have resigned Victor Martinez. Should have kept Bay.
No need for Crawford, he made no sense here. I didn't think he'd be half as bad as we was, but you don't need a gold glove left fielder at Fenway. It's almost a waste. I can't believe how much he sucked in the field, though. He's not an on base guy, whom the Sox normally aquire. He's never hit 20 HR in a season. I really don't know how he got that contract. We knew what we had in Bay. A swing built for Fenway.

Someone was asleep at the wheel when they signed Lackey. He historically sucked at Fenway.

All that said, Theo shouldn't be going anywhere. Lester, Bucholz, Bard, Youk, Ells, Pedroia, Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Walker, Papelbon, Schilling, Roberts, Doug Mncwhaterthefuckhisnameis, Beltre, (and even though he should have held onto) Bay, Martinez, Cabrera outweigh the bads.

Just maybe let someone else sign FAs!

I agree on Beltre.  While he had a great year last year and followed it up with another good year this season, I'd take a much younger Adrian Gonzalez any day of the week locked up for the next 7 years.  He's better than Beltre, hands down.  

The Victor Martinez situation is tricky.  Yes he did well in Boston.  He's a switch hitter, good run producer, hits for average.  But the Red Sox did not like his defense as a catcher, to be polite.  And the Tigers didn't sign him to be a catcher either.  He's their DH, and the Sox had the best DH in the business statistically this season.  They weren't going to sign Victor to be their full time catcher, they just weren't comfortable with that.  Now if you want to argue they should've let Ortiz walk and signed him instead, that's a different story.

Having said all that, after hearing the past couple of days what a mess the Sox were this season, you could certainly argue that Beltre and V-Mart were far better in the clubhouse and for team morale than Crawford and A-Gon.  Not that either of those guys were a disruption, they're both very quiet guys.  I'm sure they get along fine with their teammates, but Beltre and V-Mart were beloved.  They were easy going and kept everyone loose.  This years team seemed to lack a lot of passion, especially when things were going badly.

Francona kept harping on the fact that he had trouble reaching guys this season that he had been able to reach in years past.  Obviously he didn't name names, but the leading candidates are Youkilis, Ortiz, and possibly Beckett in my mind.  Apparently Youkilis rubbed teammates the wrong way this season, getting too involved in everyone's business.  Then you have Ortiz's odd outburst into a mid season Terry Francona post game press conference complaining about a scoring decision that took an RBI away from him.  And Beckett has been rumored to be one of the guys who was drinking during a game(s) he wasn't pitching in.

Most of that, and more is covered in this article by Jackie MacMullan.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7036983/underachieving-boston-red-sox-flunked-chemistry

Yeah I hear you, and I know the Sox weren't big on his defense. Personally, I think his shortcomings are overstated. If not for the stud Detroit has behind the plate, I think they'd be comfortable with V Mart there, at least in the beginning of the contract. Plus, Ortiz may have played his last game in Boston. So he would have been a nice back up plan.

I break it down like this. Would you rather have a bad defensive catcher who can rake lefty pitching and be a leader in the clubhouse? (2 things Sox lack).
Or have 2 bad defensive catchers who can't hit for shit? Which is what we have in Salty and Tek.
Water under the bridge now, but I don't understand how they thought high enough of him 2 years prior to trade a guy like Masterson away, then let him walk away after he more than proved his worth. I'm chalking it up again to asleep at the wheel. They have had a hard on for Salty for years. Texas let him go because he had trouble throwing the ball bad to the pitchers. I've never seen more passed balls in my life than watching him this season. Not exactly a defensive stud. Hopefully Levarnway progresses quickly.

[GeorgeSteele]

the mets organization is a disgrace, and i'd be ashamed to have anything to do with it. and i love that the Phillies basically sent them into this hole 4 years ago and they have just sunk lower and lower ever since. with a new stadium and huge payroll, these should be the glory days. but instead its one of the worst times in their history.

Back in 2006, when David Wright stole the Philly Phanatic's golf cart keys, I knew then that karma would bite us in the ass. 

But I'm guessing you were a Phillies fan prior to 2006, so there's plenty of shame to go around.  These things go in cycles, so enjoy it while it lasts because, based on that rant, you don't exactly exude pride for a guy whose team has been doing pretty well the last few years. 

Anyway, good luck this year, and maybe next year they'll have another run, but after that, things will be taking a dive pretty fast for that franchise. 

As for the Mets, I'm sad to say, I don't foresee an extended stretch of playoff years on the horizon, at least not as long as the Wilpons are in charge.  Best I could hope for is a fluke year like the Giants had last year.   

[tim_m]

I hate to say it but season over for the yankees. I can't see Burnett pulling a quality start out of his ass tomorrow to get us back home.

[pilferk]

I hate to say it but season over for the yankees. I can't see Burnett pulling a quality start out of his ass tomorrow to get us back home.

Agree.

If he did, it would be a nice way to put a ribbon on his season.  But he won't.

[LongGoneDay]

That was a hell of a game.
CC did a good job pitching himself out of trouble for the most part, on a night he clearly didn't have his best stuff.

Verlander is just a freak. It's amazing watching him make some of the best hitters in MLB look like they've never swung a bat before.
With his stuff, he can only beat himself, which he almost did.

Big hits from some unlikely heros. I think Detroit will need more production out of Cabrera and V MArt to end this series though.

[GeorgeSteele]

I hate to say it but season over for the yankees. I can't see Burnett pulling a quality start out of his ass tomorrow to get us back home.

Agree.

If he did, it would be a nice way to put a ribbon on his season.  But he won't.

If this past season offers any guide, his odds of a quality start are 31%.  Not that comforting, I guess, but going up against Rick Porcello, maybe he won't need to be that good. 

[tim_m]

That was a hell of a game.
CC did a good job pitching himself out of trouble for the most part, on a night he clearly didn't have his best stuff.

Verlander is just a freak. It's amazing watching him make some of the best hitters in MLB look like they've never swung a bat before.
With his stuff, he can only beat himself, which he almost did.

Big hits from some unlikely heros. I think Detroit will need more production out of Cabrera and V MArt to end this series though.

A few times Verlander tried to gift wrap that game for us and we didn't take it. Even when he almost did we gave it right back to them.