2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

that's too bad, if true. Can't say I'm heartbroken to see him leave, but the collapse was not his fault.
Not that any singular person is to blame, but players who really made it tough to win, like Lackey and Crawford get to stay, only because their contracts make them close to impossible to unload.
It's not Franconas fault, but since he is expendable, he gets the blame.

It's a message being sent to the clubhouse/players (who they can't really punish because they're under contract).  Sox go with a "Yeller" next season, and a hard nose SOB who will make the guys "run laps" all season to stay in shape. 

You know....Bobby Valentine.

Yeah, I'm hearing things were quite messy behind closed doors.  Now, I don't know how legit these things are.  Hearing it 2nd hand, from someone who heard it on Boston sports talk radio.  Apparently, guys who had the day off (starting pitchers, injured players, etc.) would be drinking in the clubhouse during games.  Players seem to be fed up with Kevin Youkilis.  Jacoby Ellsbury doesn't get along with anyone on the team other than Jed Lowrie.

Again, take those nuggets with a grain of salt, but it's safe to say that things run much deeper than their horrible on field performance.

Ellsbury had an MVP type season and most likely will be playing elsewhere in 2 years when he hits free agency.  With the ridiculous contract they signed Crawford to, he's worth about 30 million a year in comparison.  I hate to say, or even suggest it, but they might have to look into trading him to get the most value for him.  His ceiling will never be higher and I can't imagine staying in Boston would be first on his list.

And Theo Epstein's reign may have run its course as well.  He might want to take that Cubs job before its too late.  He has made some GREAT trades for the Sox during his tenure, but his big ticket free agent signings have been among the worst in baseball.  Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, JD Drew, John Lackey, Carl Crawford, Dice-K, name your reliever.  The list goes on and on.

[pilferk]

Yeah, I'm hearing things were quite messy behind closed doors.  Now, I don't know how legit these things are.  Hearing it 2nd hand, from someone who heard it on Boston sports talk radio.  Apparently, guys who had the day off (starting pitchers, injured players, etc.) would be drinking in the clubhouse during games.  Players seem to be fed up with Kevin Youkilis.  Jacoby Ellsbury doesn't get along with anyone on the team other than Jed Lowrie.

Again, take those nuggets with a grain of salt, but it's safe to say that things run much deeper than their horrible on field performance.

Ellsbury had an MVP type season and most likely will be playing elsewhere in 2 years when he hits free agency.  With the ridiculous contract they signed Crawford to, he's worth about 30 million a year in comparison.  I hate to say, or even suggest it, but they might have to look into trading him to get the most value for him.  His ceiling will never be higher and I can't imagine staying in Boston would be first on his list.

And Theo Epstein's reign may have run its course as well.  He might want to take that Cubs job before its too late.  He has made some GREAT trades for the Sox during his tenure, but his big ticket free agent signings have been among the worst in baseball.  Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, JD Drew, John Lackey, Carl Crawford, Dice-K, name your reliever.  The list goes on and on.

During the presser yesterday, Francona (in what little he had to say) mentioned there were chemistry issues....what you describe certainly sounds like they'd fit.

[GeorgeSteele]

Guys, not that I'm biased or anything [ ], but I'm not getting all the hysteria over Jose Reyes.  Sure, I understand he's not exactly popular outside of Queens and it's always fun to take a dig at anything Mets-related, but he didn't do anything just about any other player wouldn't have done or hasn't been done in the past. 

Boggs did it, I think in 1986.  It was bush league then, too.  With something like the batting title....IMHO...you don't go out the way Reyes did: With a cheap bunt single.

He didn't put himself above the team.  It was a meaningless game and the Mets have never had a guy win the batting title, so him winning it meant more to the team than that game. 

He DID put himself above his team.  It might be more forgivable, to some, because the game was meaningless.  But he still did it.  He TOLD his manager (who also disagreed but wasn't going to argue) that he was going to bunt his first AB, and if he was safe, he was coming out.  That, by it's definition, is putting yourself above your team.

Not that I personally care much about the batting "title".  Seems very arbitrary that to pick one stat that, if you're the leader in, you get the 'title' or you're the 'champ'.  Why no Homerun Champ?  Also, this probably drives up the price to re-sign him, so I'm not really looking forward to $20M a year for extended DL stints. 

There are other awards...Silver Slugger, Hank Aaron, etc.

As for the Mets never having won a batting title...I'd argue that while they TECHNICALLY have...Reyes isn't assured of being in a Mets uniform next year, so I"m not sure how much this one matters.  This was about driving up Reyes price in the market....for REYES.  Not the Mets.  Not the fans.  REYES.

Anyway, for better or worse, in all sports, competition stops once the outcome is in hand.  When a football team has a late 4th quarter lead, they sit on the ball and run out the clock.  This was no different. 

Not, IMHO, the same thing.  This would be akin to a football team running up a big lead and walking off the field for the final 5 minutes.  At least if you're sitting on the ball, running clock, the other team has a (slim) chance that something will go haywire, they can get the ball, and have some sort of miracle outcome.  At least the team with the lead is still COMPETING.

Reyes basically said "Game over", took his ball, and went home.

I remember Boggs... Willie Wilson also did it to Robin Yount... sure there were plenty other instances.

In 2008, Jeter took himself out of Game 162 after his first hitless at-bat to keep his average from going below .300.  Again, while petty, that was also a meaningless game at the time, so it shouldn't really matter.

True on the Silver Slugger and Hank Aaron awards, but those at least try to take into all stats as a whole, not just one.

Anyway, yes, of course Reyes did it for Reyes only, but the Mets went along with it because the batting title association was worth more to them than whatever increased chance they'd have of winning the game with Reyes still in there.  Which they won anyway.

And on the football analogy, the only reason teams don't pick up and leave before the game ends is because they'd forfeit, but if it were allowed, they'd do it.

And there's nothing cheap about bunt hits.  If they were so easy, everyone would do it.  And this is Reyes we're talking about, everyone knows he's always a threat to bunt.  It's not like we're talking Tom Berenger's bunt in Major League.

[GeorgeSteele]

Red Sox... I think Epstein's got to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.  He's been very good for them during his tenure, but the Crawford and Lackey signings are indefensible.  Also, on A-Gon, the consensus was that was a great move, but was it really?  Last year, they had Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd.  After the trade, Youk goes to 3rd and now A-Gon at 1st.  A marginal Beltre to A-Gon offensive upgrade and a massive downgrade defensively from Beltre to Youk at 3rd.  And they lost high-level prospects in the trade.

[pilferk]

I remember Boggs... Willie Wilson also did it to Robin Yount... sure there were plenty other instances.

Not all that many, actually.  At least that I can find. 

In 2008, Jeter took himself out of Game 162 after his first hitless at-bat to keep his average from going below .300.  Again, while petty, that was also a meaningless game at the time, so it shouldn't really matter.

Very different.  There is no limit as to how many players can hit .300.  There is no competition or impact...other than having a nice round number on your baseball card...to hitting .300.  You're not effecting anyone else by doing so.  Again, to an analogy: It's like playing HORSE against yourself.  You quit when you get tired.

True on the Silver Slugger and Hank Aaron awards, but those at least try to take into all stats as a whole, not just one.

Anyway, yes, of course Reyes did it for Reyes only, but the Mets went along with it because the batting title association was worth more to them than whatever increased chance they'd have of winning the game with Reyes still in there.  Which they won anyway.

No.  The Mets manager went along with it because Reyes TOLD him that was what he was going to do.  Didn't ask.  TOLD HIM.  And the manager didn't want to damage the relationship he'd built with his player over the course of the year by saying "No".  That's pretty much directly from Collins mouth.  He didn't like it.  Didn't want Reyes to do it.  But wasn't going to put his foot down about it.

And on the football analogy, the only reason teams don't pick up and leave before the game ends is because they'd forfeit, but if it were allowed, they'd do it.

Which is, rather, my point.  They're not allowed to walk off the field because the league would force them to forfeit...because it violates the integrity of the game. It violates the spirit of competition. There's a reason those rules are in place.

I agree..there are no rules about it in baseball.  Doesn't mean the sentiment isn't applicable.

And there's nothing cheap about bunt hits.  If they were so easy, everyone would do it.  And this is Reyes we're talking about, everyone knows he's always a threat to bunt.  It's not like we're talking Tom Berenger's bunt in Major League.

When you lead off the game with a bunt...nobody is expecting it. If "everyone did it", you'd expect it, and it would never work.  It was a cheap bunt single. 

Look, I'm not begrudging him the hit.  He deserved it.  It was a hit.  But I'd call it the same thing if Jeter or Gardner did it.

Reyes already had an advantage because he had significantly fewer AB's than Braun did.  He already had a healthy advantage after the hit. 

He can't go out and play defense for an inning or two?  He can't go one more AB and THEN, if he doesn't get a hit, pull himself out (Braun still would have needed to get 2 hits in 3 AB's to win...instead of 3 in 4)?  C'mon.....it was a cheesy move. 

[pilferk]

Red Sox... I think Epstein's got to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.  He's been very good for them during his tenure, but the Crawford and Lackey signings are indefensible.  Also, on A-Gon, the consensus was that was a great move, but was it really?  Last year, they had Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd.  After the trade, Youk goes to 3rd and now A-Gon at 1st.  A marginal Beltre to A-Gon offensive upgrade and a massive downgrade defensively from Beltre to Youk at 3rd.  And they lost high-level prospects in the trade.

Trades...Theo's been very good.

Free Agent Signings?  There's been a number of stinkers in there, to say the least.

Anyway...looks like it's official.  Henry announced to reporters that Francona has agreed to resign (resign, as in quit...not re-sign, as in they picked up his options).

[LongGoneDay]

Red Sox... I think Epstein's got to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.  He's been very good for them during his tenure, but the Crawford and Lackey signings are indefensible.  Also, on A-Gon, the consensus was that was a great move, but was it really?  Last year, they had Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd.  After the trade, Youk goes to 3rd and now A-Gon at 1st.  A marginal Beltre to A-Gon offensive upgrade and a massive downgrade defensively from Beltre to Youk at 3rd.  And they lost high-level prospects in the trade.

Beltre has had a great past 2 seasons, but I don't think he had been consistent enough to lock up to a long term deal. He was a bust in Seattle, and really only had one great year prior, contract year.
Not taking away what he did here, he was fun to watch, but he did his damage from the 7 spot. He was clearly comfortable, but things may have been different if he truly had to be relied upon. There was really no pressure on him while he was here. Gonzalez on the other hand has been on eof the most consistent hitters in MLB, and is on a short list of the best in the business. He has insane stats, that he put up in a nightmare for hitters park. In just his first year in Boston, with protection, he had the highest average most of the year. That was his only knock in SD. He still strikes out more than you'd like, but I think he is going to be an absolute beast for years to come. Now that he knows what to expect, I'm thinking he's gonna have a monster year next year. Similar to Cabrera after switching leagues. An offseason to help that shoulder won't hurt either.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I will anyway!
Sox should have resigned Victor Martinez. Should have kept Bay.
No need for Crawford, he made no sense here. I didn't think he'd be half as bad as we was, but you don't need a gold glove left fielder at Fenway. It's almost a waste. I can't believe how much he sucked in the field, though. He's not an on base guy, whom the Sox normally aquire. He's never hit 20 HR in a season. I really don't know how he got that contract. We knew what we had in Bay. A swing built for Fenway.

Someone was asleep at the wheel when they signed Lackey. He historically sucked at Fenway.

All that said, Theo shouldn't be going anywhere. Lester, Bucholz, Bard, Youk, Ells, Pedroia, Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Walker, Papelbon, Schilling, Roberts, Doug Mncwhaterthefuckhisnameis, Beltre, (and even though he should have held onto) Bay, Martinez, Cabrera outweigh the bads.

Just maybe let someone else sign FAs!

[tim_m]

The Red Sox look to make one last bit of news before post season play kicks off.  Looks like Terry Francona will indeed land on the sword for the epic collapse and lose his job.  I still don't think it's fair to blame ONE guy, but such is life as a manager.

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2011/09/terry_francona.html

By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff
The changes on Yawkey Way could be coming quickly.

Red Sox manager Terry Francona might be looking for a new job as early as today according to a report by Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports.

Rosenthal writes that according to major league sources Francona will meet with Sox management this morning, and "the expected resolution is" that Francona will no longer be employed as the manager of the Boston Red Sox.

While Francona's departure is not certain, it is the likely outcome, in part because he is pressing for a resolution, sources say. He would not be fired; the Red Sox would simply decline their club options on him for 2012 and '13.

In addition, the Chicago Sun Times is reporting that Francona wants out of Boston, and that the White Sox could be a logical landing spot now that Ozzie Guillen has departed.

?He [Francona] has had his fill of the whole thing," a source told the Sun-Times.

Francona was asked during yesterday's press conference at Fenway Park whether he wanted to stay with the Red Sox.

?Theo and I talked today a little bit. I think we?ll continue to talk tomorrow," Francona said. "Maybe it?s best today to stay with where we?re at. I?s still pretty fresh and pretty raw. It?s a fair question."

Former ESPN sports guy and Friend-of-Tito Keith Olberman also writes that he's heard Francona is heading out of Boston:

As a peck of mainstream baseball guys report that Terry Francona will probably not return as manager of the Boston Red Sox ? possibly by mutual consent ? I can tell you that early in the week I was told by one source that it was a foregone conclusion. There was only the one indicator, so obviously I didn?t say anything, but I will note that all of the murmurs about people not being on the same page, and the Sox thinking Francona?s light touch with his players had somehow contributed to the September collapse, did not come out of thin air. I got to visit with my friend Tito over the weekend here in New York and while it was two friends talking and should remain that way, I have to say that all the stuff you?ve heard, he?d heard.

Speculation has already begun on who might replace Francona in the Red Sox dugout.

ESPN's Buster Olney tweeted this morning: "A guy who would be a good fit if the Red Sox and Francona part ways: Pete Mackanin, who is currently Charlie Manuel's bench coach."

And there's more chatter about Red Sox GM Theo Epstein.

The Sun-Times is reporting via Gordon Wittenmyer that the Chicago Cubs will be making a run at Epstein:

A day later in Chicago, the question became the same one uttered by a player amid the din that night: ??You think [Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein] would leave to come here???

If the answer is yes ? and one report Thursday suggested he has told friends he would ??embrace the challenge?? ? the next sound could be the cheering coming from the Cubs? boardroom.

Epstein yesterday said "nobody blames Tito [Francona] for what happened in September -- that would be totally irresponsible and totally short-sighted."

That really sucks dude. As much as i dislike and raz on the Sox i always did like and respect Francona. He's a good guy and a good manager and he did not deserves to take the fall for this. Changes need to be made to the team not the coaching staff.

[tim_m]

I have to admit i was pretty shocked at how it all went down. Yankees up 7-0. You don't expect them to blow that lead even with a AAA pitching staff. Then when Boston blew it with the O's down to the last strike then practically before Boston even got in the clubhouse the rays cap off the comeback and hit a walk off homerun. I was sitting here at the computer thinking are you fucking kidding me? All in all though i agree Faldor sox did not deserve it the way they played in September they shouldn't be in the playoffs. Gotta give credit to the Rays, that team just never gave up and just kept on coming the way it all went down seemed like destiny. I hope the playoffs continue to be this exciting, although, i'm not sure if my heart can take it lol. I am very nervous about the yankees the tigers scare the holy shit out of me with that rotation and with the way the rays are rolling i wouldn't be too thrilled being a ranger fan.

Yeah, I think the AL field is wide open at this point.  I don't think there's much of a difference between the four teams.  I know people harp on the fact that Tampa has a weak lineup, and they do.  But you don't have to look past last year, when the Giants had a porous offense and they won it all.  Their pitching was great, and their offense caught fire at the right time.  I could envision Tampa doing that.  You could argue, they've already started.  It was impressive coming back from 7 down, regardless of who was pitching.  The Red Sox weren't exactly facing Cy Young himself and they couldn't score more than 3 runs.

Sabathia vs. Verlander is quite a matchup, should be interesting.  Fister vs. Nova isn't too shabby either, both have pitched well in the second half.  I'd have to give the Yankees a slight edge in the series.  I underestimated them the whole season, all the way to their 97 victories.  I have to admit, they're good.  Good balance on that team.  Good depth, good bullpen, GOOD starting pitching, good lineup.  Good all over. 

Phillies are the obvious favorites in the NL, but they got knocked off last year.  So anything can happen.  Brewers are a popular pick as well, but the D'backs have been proving doubters wrong all year.  Should be fun.  At least I'll get to see some GOOD baseball now, not having to watch the Red Sox anymore.  I've forgotten what that looks like. 

This yankee team actually eerily reminds me of the magical 96 team. Think about it, We had the veteran Cone, the rookie Pettitte beyond that we had guys like Gooden, Key Rogers etc and a great bullpen. Same this year. If we can get a lead after 6 we are dangerous. Soriano in the 7th, Robertson in the 8th and Mr Forgetaboutit Mo in the 9th.

The NL i would not take Arizona or Milwaukee lightly those two teams look very dangerous, both have good pitching and good offenses. One of them could surprise the Phils.

[D]

What sucks with Reyes is.. he JUST qualified for the title.... So fewer at bat titles aren't as significant.

[GeorgeSteele]

I remember Boggs... Willie Wilson also did it to Robin Yount... sure there were plenty other instances.

Not all that many, actually.  At least that I can find. 

In 2008, Jeter took himself out of Game 162 after his first hitless at-bat to keep his average from going below .300.  Again, while petty, that was also a meaningless game at the time, so it shouldn't really matter.

Very different.  There is no limit as to how many players can hit .300.  There is no competition or impact...other than having a nice round number on your baseball card...to hitting .300.  You're not effecting anyone else by doing so.  Again, to an analogy: It's like playing HORSE against yourself.  You quit when you get tired.

True on the Silver Slugger and Hank Aaron awards, but those at least try to take into all stats as a whole, not just one.

Anyway, yes, of course Reyes did it for Reyes only, but the Mets went along with it because the batting title association was worth more to them than whatever increased chance they'd have of winning the game with Reyes still in there.  Which they won anyway.

No.  The Mets manager went along with it because Reyes TOLD him that was what he was going to do.  Didn't ask.  TOLD HIM.  And the manager didn't want to damage the relationship he'd built with his player over the course of the year by saying "No".  That's pretty much directly from Collins mouth.  He didn't like it.  Didn't want Reyes to do it.  But wasn't going to put his foot down about it.

And on the football analogy, the only reason teams don't pick up and leave before the game ends is because they'd forfeit, but if it were allowed, they'd do it.

Which is, rather, my point.  They're not allowed to walk off the field because the league would force them to forfeit...because it violates the integrity of the game. It violates the spirit of competition. There's a reason those rules are in place.

I agree..there are no rules about it in baseball.  Doesn't mean the sentiment isn't applicable.

And there's nothing cheap about bunt hits.  If they were so easy, everyone would do it.  And this is Reyes we're talking about, everyone knows he's always a threat to bunt.  It's not like we're talking Tom Berenger's bunt in Major League.

When you lead off the game with a bunt...nobody is expecting it. If "everyone did it", you'd expect it, and it would never work.  It was a cheap bunt single. 

Look, I'm not begrudging him the hit.  He deserved it.  It was a hit.  But I'd call it the same thing if Jeter or Gardner did it.

Reyes already had an advantage because he had significantly fewer AB's than Braun did.  He already had a healthy advantage after the hit. 

He can't go out and play defense for an inning or two?  He can't go one more AB and THEN, if he doesn't get a hit, pull himself out (Braun still would have needed to get 2 hits in 3 AB's to win...instead of 3 in 4)?  C'mon.....it was a cheesy move. 

Cheesy, maybe, I just thought the reaction was over the top.  Surprised it got any attention given probably the most exciting MLB regular season ending ever.

But your gripes are 2-fold -- poor sportsmanship and selfishness.  On the Jeter comparison, maybe the first wouldn't apply, but what about the 2nd?  Was Jeter putting team first by preserving his precious .300 avg?  Now, Jeter's team-first reputation is certainly rock solid, no questioning that, but for that instance alone, let's call a spade a spade.  

And, again, bunt hits are not cheap.  Any team that is not preparing for a bunt anytime Reyes is at-bat is clueless.  Fact is, even when they are prepared, it often doesn't matter, because he's one of the best at it and he's fast as fuck. And, in any case, I don't agree that the element of surprise is in any way unsportsmanlike.  

[GeorgeSteele]

What sucks with Reyes is.. he JUST qualified for the title.... So fewer at bat titles aren't as significant.

The cut-off is what it is -- brutha!  We don't make the rules. 

[D]

I did a lot of research in April cause i am in a Money Dynasty/Keeper league with Farm System and thats where I first read about Matt Moore. Next year, I have the top 3 farm system prospects in Bryce Harper, Matt Moore and Julio Teheran

Seeing what Moore did today against Texas!!! This guy is a future Cy Young Ace.

[tim_m]

That might be a bit premature the guy has only 2 MLB starts under his belt. He was great today but anointing him a future cy young winner after two starts?

[D]

remember what he did to yanks? check his aaa and aa stats.  he is a phenom

[tim_m]

Screw you mother nature. This is getting fucking ridiculous how many yankee games have been affected this season by rain. Its not looking great for Saturday or Sunday either. Now Verlander or Sabathia can likely go tomorrow. Sabathia possibly cause he threw less pitches but if not who pitches tomorrow's resumed game? The game 2 starters? Game 3?

[faldor]

Screw you mother nature. This is getting fucking ridiculous how many yankee games have been affected this season by rain. Its not looking great for Saturday or Sunday either. Now Verlander or Sabathia can likely go tomorrow. Sabathia possibly cause he threw less pitches but if not who pitches tomorrow's resumed game? The game 2 starters? Game 3?

It'll be Nova vs. Fister.  CC and Verlander will face off in game 3 now.  So both teams are in the same boat.  Actually the Tigers are at a bit more of a disadvantage because they set tonights lineup to face a LEFTY, and now when they resume they'll be facing a RIGHTY.  For all you purists out there, however big a difference that might be.

[tim_m]

This changes the while complexion of the series. It has to be advantage yankees now. Nova who is very good tomorrow and then garcia who has been good too. We could be up 2-0 before seeing verlander. Fister is good too but I like nova. It kinda sucks that those pitchers won't actually get a start now.

[faldor]

Red Sox... I think Epstein's got to bear the brunt of the blame on this one.  He's been very good for them during his tenure, but the Crawford and Lackey signings are indefensible.  Also, on A-Gon, the consensus was that was a great move, but was it really?  Last year, they had Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd.  After the trade, Youk goes to 3rd and now A-Gon at 1st.  A marginal Beltre to A-Gon offensive upgrade and a massive downgrade defensively from Beltre to Youk at 3rd.  And they lost high-level prospects in the trade.

Beltre has had a great past 2 seasons, but I don't think he had been consistent enough to lock up to a long term deal. He was a bust in Seattle, and really only had one great year prior, contract year.
Not taking away what he did here, he was fun to watch, but he did his damage from the 7 spot. He was clearly comfortable, but things may have been different if he truly had to be relied upon. There was really no pressure on him while he was here. Gonzalez on the other hand has been on eof the most consistent hitters in MLB, and is on a short list of the best in the business. He has insane stats, that he put up in a nightmare for hitters park. In just his first year in Boston, with protection, he had the highest average most of the year. That was his only knock in SD. He still strikes out more than you'd like, but I think he is going to be an absolute beast for years to come. Now that he knows what to expect, I'm thinking he's gonna have a monster year next year. Similar to Cabrera after switching leagues. An offseason to help that shoulder won't hurt either.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I will anyway!
Sox should have resigned Victor Martinez. Should have kept Bay.
No need for Crawford, he made no sense here. I didn't think he'd be half as bad as we was, but you don't need a gold glove left fielder at Fenway. It's almost a waste. I can't believe how much he sucked in the field, though. He's not an on base guy, whom the Sox normally aquire. He's never hit 20 HR in a season. I really don't know how he got that contract. We knew what we had in Bay. A swing built for Fenway.

Someone was asleep at the wheel when they signed Lackey. He historically sucked at Fenway.

All that said, Theo shouldn't be going anywhere. Lester, Bucholz, Bard, Youk, Ells, Pedroia, Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Walker, Papelbon, Schilling, Roberts, Doug Mncwhaterthefuckhisnameis, Beltre, (and even though he should have held onto) Bay, Martinez, Cabrera outweigh the bads.

Just maybe let someone else sign FAs!

I agree on Beltre.  While he had a great year last year and followed it up with another good year this season, I'd take a much younger Adrian Gonzalez any day of the week locked up for the next 7 years.  He's better than Beltre, hands down.  

The Victor Martinez situation is tricky.  Yes he did well in Boston.  He's a switch hitter, good run producer, hits for average.  But the Red Sox did not like his defense as a catcher, to be polite.  And the Tigers didn't sign him to be a catcher either.  He's their DH, and the Sox had the best DH in the business statistically this season.  They weren't going to sign Victor to be their full time catcher, they just weren't comfortable with that.  Now if you want to argue they should've let Ortiz walk and signed him instead, that's a different story.

Having said all that, after hearing the past couple of days what a mess the Sox were this season, you could certainly argue that Beltre and V-Mart were far better in the clubhouse and for team morale than Crawford and A-Gon.  Not that either of those guys were a disruption, they're both very quiet guys.  I'm sure they get along fine with their teammates, but Beltre and V-Mart were beloved.  They were easy going and kept everyone loose.  This years team seemed to lack a lot of passion, especially when things were going badly.

Francona kept harping on the fact that he had trouble reaching guys this season that he had been able to reach in years past.  Obviously he didn't name names, but the leading candidates are Youkilis, Ortiz, and possibly Beckett in my mind.  Apparently Youkilis rubbed teammates the wrong way this season, getting too involved in everyone's business.  Then you have Ortiz's odd outburst into a mid season Terry Francona post game press conference complaining about a scoring decision that took an RBI away from him.  And Beckett has been rumored to be one of the guys who was drinking during a game(s) he wasn't pitching in.

Most of that, and more is covered in this article by Jackie MacMullan.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7036983/underachieving-boston-red-sox-flunked-chemistry

[faldor]

This changes the while complexion of the series. It has to be advantage yankees now. Nova who is very good tomorrow and then garcia who has been good too. We could be up 2-0 before seeing verlander. Fister is good too but I like nova. It kinda sucks that those pitchers won't actually get a start now.

I suppose.  If you were going to give Verlander the edge over CC, and I suppose you would, you only have that matchup once now.  Both teams have to go with a fourth starter now too, with no off days in the series.  I think I heard Rick Porcello would be the Tigers 4th starter.  Burnett for the Yanks?

A funny tweet from tonight taking a shot at the Red Sox.  It's actually easier for me to take that they were such a disaster of a team.

KenDavidoff Ken Davidoff
by GordonEdes
During the rain delay, players from both teams have been drinking beer and complaining about buses. No, wait, wrong team... #Tigers-#Yankees