2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[pilferk]

Nice catch Carl.
At least I don't have to watch Lackey pitch again this year.
Hopefully never in a Sox uniform again.

Should be some good matchups.
Longoria is peaking at the perfect time.

Verlander vs Sabbathia should be a hell of a game.

You might not see Lackey pitch in a Sox uniform...but they're going to be paying his salary for a good long time.  Because the only way the Sox get rid of him is IF (and only if) they're willing to swallow 90% of his salary.

[pilferk]

i was thinking the same thing about Faldor. hang in there dude.  all of our teams except for one will be eliminated at some point. time to focus all your attention on the upcoming GnR shows.

Hopefully he's off somewhere sleeping one off.  If ever someone deserved to go on a drinking binge...it's Sox fans after last night.

[LongGoneDay]

Nice catch Carl.
At least I don't have to watch Lackey pitch again this year.
Hopefully never in a Sox uniform again.

Should be some good matchups.
Longoria is peaking at the perfect time.

Verlander vs Sabbathia should be a hell of a game.

You might not see Lackey pitch in a Sox uniform...but they're going to be paying his salary for a good long time.  Because the only way the Sox get rid of him is IF (and only if) they're willing to swallow 90% of his salary.

Oh, no doubt about it! Wouldn't be the first time the Sox paid someone big money to play somewhere else.
I'm just hoping some AL West team where he's had success, or NL team, or anyone has some interest if Sox pay up.
I found myself watching less and less games the past few years, because it was just too painful to watch Dice K, Wakefield and Lackey starts.

[pilferk]

Oh, no doubt about it! Wouldn't be the first time the Sox paid someone big money to play somewhere else.
I'm just hoping some AL West team where he's had success, or NL team, or anyone has some interest if Sox pay up.
I found myself watching less and less games the past few years, because it was just too painful to watch Dice K, Wakefield and Lackey starts.

Think Wakefield retires?

[LongGoneDay]

i was thinking the same thing about Faldor. hang in there dude.  all of our teams except for one will be eliminated at some point. time to focus all your attention on the upcoming GnR shows.

Hopefully he's off somewhere sleeping one off.  If ever someone deserved to go on a drinking binge...it's Sox fans after last night.

If this were pre 2003, I would probably still be drinking, and working on a week long hangover.
There were some rough mornings for me back then!

I can honestly say I'm satisfied as a Boston sports fan. I never expected to see Sox, Pats, and especially the Celtics win a championship.
Celtics over the Lakers??!!
I'm not a hockey fan, so wasn't a huge deal for me with the Bruins, but still cool to see. I'd probably trade the Bruins franchise for Albert Pujols.

I'm happy Crawford had the dropped ball. My father and brothers were psyched about the Crawford signing. I said it made no baseball sense, and that money should have gone to keeping Martinez here.
Now I can bust their balls for at least an offseason.

They have been giving it to me because they were right about Adrian Beltre last year. I didn't love the pick up at the time.

It's tough to do sometimes. I know first hand, but you gotta keep things in perspective. It's just sports, and we aren't even the ones playing.

That said, I'd rather be watching the Sox in the playoffs than the Rays!

[LongGoneDay]

Oh, no doubt about it! Wouldn't be the first time the Sox paid someone big money to play somewhere else.
I'm just hoping some AL West team where he's had success, or NL team, or anyone has some interest if Sox pay up.
I found myself watching less and less games the past few years, because it was just too painful to watch Dice K, Wakefield and Lackey starts.

Think Wakefield retires?

He's a good insurance policy to have, and he's making small money(for baseball) so it wouldn't bother me if he goes another year. Tough to say, I don't think he's talked about it.
I just hope they don't have to rely on him. In hindsight, this whole mess began while Wake was chasing his 200th win. Sticking with a guy who needed 8, 9 chances whatever it was, to pick up a win probably wasn't a great recipe for success.

[MR.BROWNSTONE]

I thought for sure we would see a one game playoff today with  Tampa Bay vs Boston Red or Atlanta vs St. Louis.     

[Falcon]

OK folks, here are my (completely sacrelidgeous) Playoff picks:

NL:
Diamondbacks vs Brewers: Brewers
Cards vs Phillies: Cards

Brewers vs Cards: Cards

AL:
Tigers vs Yanks: TIgers (and you have no idea how much that hurts)
Rangers vs Rays: Rays

Detroit vs Rays: Detroit

WS:
Tigers vs Cards

And mine:


NL:
Diamondbacks vs Brewers: Brewers
Cards vs Phillies: Philiies

Brewers vs Phillies: Phillies

AL:
Tigers vs Yanks: Yanks
Rangers vs Rays: Rangers

Rangers vs Yanks: Yanks

WS:
Phillies vs Yankees

Phillies in 5

[D]

Jose Reyes.. what a bitch

[D]

NL:
Diamondbacks vs Brewers: Brewers
Cards vs Phillies: Philiies

Brewers vs Phillies: Phillies

AL:
Tigers vs Yanks: Yanks
Rangers vs Rays: Rangers

Rangers vs Yanks: Rangers

WS:
Phillies vs Rangers

Phillies in 7

[D]

Been a Braves fan since 1986.. .Unreal that kind of collapse.

Oh well... Future is SUPER bright with the studs we got at AAA.

Need to send Derrick Lowe's old ass packing.

[faldor]

i was thinking the same thing about Faldor. hang in there dude.  all of our teams except for one will be eliminated at some point. time to focus all your attention on the upcoming GnR shows.

Hopefully he's off somewhere sleeping one off.  If ever someone deserved to go on a drinking binge...it's Sox fans after last night.

You were pretty close.  I did a little drinking last night during the game.  Had some friends over and it was looking like they'd be celebratory beers for most of the night.  I mean, Rays down 7-0 with ONE hit through 6 innings.  Couldn't ask for much more.  I was worried about the Sox only scoring 3 runs though, I just knew that wouldn't be enough, and sure enough it wasn't. 

In all honestly, I've never been so relieved for a season to be over.  They were so hard to watch and root for down the stretch.  They just didn't deserve to be in the playoffs, point blank.  And the Rays deserve it tenfold.  To come back like that, down to their last strike.  A pinch hit homerun.  The night before getting a triple play with the bases loaded.  I mean, it sure seemed like they were destined to make it.  And EVERYTHING that could go wrong, went wrong for the Sox, so they seemed destined NOT to make it.

And I agree with LongGoneDay.  If this loss occurred in 2002, I'd be near suicide right now.  I remember the epic game 7 loss to the Yanks in 2003, after Boone hit the game winner I shut the TV off and stared at a blank screen for abount 10 minutes in complete silence.  But honestly, this loss was no big thing.  I've been blessed with plenty of championships this past decade, I can handle the tough losses easier these days.  Well, at least this one.  The last few tough Patriots losses have still stung quite a bit.  But this one was such a long time coming, such an epic collapse, and such a tough team to root for.  So, it really wasn't tough to get over.  I was fine a minute after the O's scored the winning run.  I knew the Rays were going to win after that.

It's all good, good luck to all your respective teams in the playoffs.  Should be some good baseball.

[tim_m]

I have to admit i was pretty shocked at how it all went down. Yankees up 7-0. You don't expect them to blow that lead even with a AAA pitching staff. Then when Boston blew it with the O's down to the last strike then practically before Boston even got in the clubhouse the rays cap off the comeback and hit a walk off homerun. I was sitting here at the computer thinking are you fucking kidding me? All in all though i agree Faldor sox did not deserve it the way they played in September they shouldn't be in the playoffs. Gotta give credit to the Rays, that team just never gave up and just kept on coming the way it all went down seemed like destiny. I hope the playoffs continue to be this exciting, although, i'm not sure if my heart can take it lol. I am very nervous about the yankees the tigers scare the holy shit out of me with that rotation and with the way the rays are rolling i wouldn't be too thrilled being a ranger fan.

[faldor]

I have to admit i was pretty shocked at how it all went down. Yankees up 7-0. You don't expect them to blow that lead even with a AAA pitching staff. Then when Boston blew it with the O's down to the last strike then practically before Boston even got in the clubhouse the rays cap off the comeback and hit a walk off homerun. I was sitting here at the computer thinking are you fucking kidding me? All in all though i agree Faldor sox did not deserve it the way they played in September they shouldn't be in the playoffs. Gotta give credit to the Rays, that team just never gave up and just kept on coming the way it all went down seemed like destiny. I hope the playoffs continue to be this exciting, although, i'm not sure if my heart can take it lol. I am very nervous about the yankees the tigers scare the holy shit out of me with that rotation and with the way the rays are rolling i wouldn't be too thrilled being a ranger fan.

Yeah, I think the AL field is wide open at this point.  I don't think there's much of a difference between the four teams.  I know people harp on the fact that Tampa has a weak lineup, and they do.  But you don't have to look past last year, when the Giants had a porous offense and they won it all.  Their pitching was great, and their offense caught fire at the right time.  I could envision Tampa doing that.  You could argue, they've already started.  It was impressive coming back from 7 down, regardless of who was pitching.  The Red Sox weren't exactly facing Cy Young himself and they couldn't score more than 3 runs.

Sabathia vs. Verlander is quite a matchup, should be interesting.  Fister vs. Nova isn't too shabby either, both have pitched well in the second half.  I'd have to give the Yankees a slight edge in the series.  I underestimated them the whole season, all the way to their 97 victories.  I have to admit, they're good.  Good balance on that team.  Good depth, good bullpen, GOOD starting pitching, good lineup.  Good all over. 

Phillies are the obvious favorites in the NL, but they got knocked off last year.  So anything can happen.  Brewers are a popular pick as well, but the D'backs have been proving doubters wrong all year.  Should be fun.  At least I'll get to see some GOOD baseball now, not having to watch the Red Sox anymore.  I've forgotten what that looks like. 

[faldor]

The Red Sox look to make one last bit of news before post season play kicks off.  Looks like Terry Francona will indeed land on the sword for the epic collapse and lose his job.  I still don't think it's fair to blame ONE guy, but such is life as a manager.

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2011/09/terry_francona.html

By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff
The changes on Yawkey Way could be coming quickly.

Red Sox manager Terry Francona might be looking for a new job as early as today according to a report by Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports.

Rosenthal writes that according to major league sources Francona will meet with Sox management this morning, and "the expected resolution is" that Francona will no longer be employed as the manager of the Boston Red Sox.

While Francona's departure is not certain, it is the likely outcome, in part because he is pressing for a resolution, sources say. He would not be fired; the Red Sox would simply decline their club options on him for 2012 and '13.

In addition, the Chicago Sun Times is reporting that Francona wants out of Boston, and that the White Sox could be a logical landing spot now that Ozzie Guillen has departed.

?He [Francona] has had his fill of the whole thing," a source told the Sun-Times.

Francona was asked during yesterday's press conference at Fenway Park whether he wanted to stay with the Red Sox.

?Theo and I talked today a little bit. I think we?ll continue to talk tomorrow," Francona said. "Maybe it?s best today to stay with where we?re at. I?s still pretty fresh and pretty raw. It?s a fair question."

Former ESPN sports guy and Friend-of-Tito Keith Olberman also writes that he's heard Francona is heading out of Boston:

As a peck of mainstream baseball guys report that Terry Francona will probably not return as manager of the Boston Red Sox ? possibly by mutual consent ? I can tell you that early in the week I was told by one source that it was a foregone conclusion. There was only the one indicator, so obviously I didn?t say anything, but I will note that all of the murmurs about people not being on the same page, and the Sox thinking Francona?s light touch with his players had somehow contributed to the September collapse, did not come out of thin air. I got to visit with my friend Tito over the weekend here in New York and while it was two friends talking and should remain that way, I have to say that all the stuff you?ve heard, he?d heard.

Speculation has already begun on who might replace Francona in the Red Sox dugout.

ESPN's Buster Olney tweeted this morning: "A guy who would be a good fit if the Red Sox and Francona part ways: Pete Mackanin, who is currently Charlie Manuel's bench coach."

And there's more chatter about Red Sox GM Theo Epstein.

The Sun-Times is reporting via Gordon Wittenmyer that the Chicago Cubs will be making a run at Epstein:

A day later in Chicago, the question became the same one uttered by a player amid the din that night: ??You think [Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein] would leave to come here???

If the answer is yes ? and one report Thursday suggested he has told friends he would ??embrace the challenge?? ? the next sound could be the cheering coming from the Cubs? boardroom.

Epstein yesterday said "nobody blames Tito [Francona] for what happened in September -- that would be totally irresponsible and totally short-sighted."

[pilferk]

NY Daily News says it's done.

Henry fired Francona in a meeting, this AM.  They may spin it as them just not picking up his option OR they may let Francona spin it as him wanting to leave.

But the reports by the Daily News indicate it was 100% Henry's call.

[GeorgeSteele]

Guys, not that I'm biased or anything [ ], but I'm not getting all the hysteria over Jose Reyes.  Sure, I understand he's not exactly popular outside of Queens and it's always fun to take a dig at anything Mets-related, but he didn't do anything just about any other player wouldn't have done or hasn't been done in the past. 

He didn't put himself above the team.  It was a meaningless game and the Mets have never had a guy win the batting title, so him winning it meant more to the team than that game.  Not that I personally care much about the batting "title".  Seems very arbitrary that to pick one stat that, if you're the leader in, you get the 'title' or you're the 'champ'.  Why no Homerun Champ?  Also, this probably drives up the price to re-sign him, so I'm not really looking forward to $20M a year for extended DL stints. 

Anyway, for better or worse, in all sports, competition stops once the outcome is in hand.  When a football team has a late 4th quarter lead, they sit on the ball and run out the clock.  This was no different. 

[LongGoneDay]

NY Daily News says it's done.

Henry fired Francona in a meeting, this AM.  They may spin it as them just not picking up his option OR they may let Francona spin it as him wanting to leave.

But the reports by the Daily News indicate it was 100% Henry's call.

that's too bad, if true. Can't say I'm heartbroken to see him leave, but the collapse was not his fault.
Not that any singular person is to blame, but players who really made it tough to win, like Lackey and Crawford get to stay, only because their contracts make them close to impossible to unload.
It's not Franconas fault, but since he is expendable, he gets the blame.

[pilferk]

Guys, not that I'm biased or anything [ ], but I'm not getting all the hysteria over Jose Reyes.  Sure, I understand he's not exactly popular outside of Queens and it's always fun to take a dig at anything Mets-related, but he didn't do anything just about any other player wouldn't have done or hasn't been done in the past. 

Boggs did it, I think in 1986.  It was bush league then, too.  With something like the batting title....IMHO...you don't go out the way Reyes did: With a cheap bunt single.

He didn't put himself above the team.  It was a meaningless game and the Mets have never had a guy win the batting title, so him winning it meant more to the team than that game. 

He DID put himself above his team.  It might be more forgivable, to some, because the game was meaningless.  But he still did it.  He TOLD his manager (who also disagreed but wasn't going to argue) that he was going to bunt his first AB, and if he was safe, he was coming out.  That, by it's definition, is putting yourself above your team.

Not that I personally care much about the batting "title".  Seems very arbitrary that to pick one stat that, if you're the leader in, you get the 'title' or you're the 'champ'.  Why no Homerun Champ?  Also, this probably drives up the price to re-sign him, so I'm not really looking forward to $20M a year for extended DL stints. 

There are other awards...Silver Slugger, Hank Aaron, etc.

As for the Mets never having won a batting title...I'd argue that while they TECHNICALLY have...Reyes isn't assured of being in a Mets uniform next year, so I"m not sure how much this one matters.  This was about driving up Reyes price in the market....for REYES.  Not the Mets.  Not the fans.  REYES.

Anyway, for better or worse, in all sports, competition stops once the outcome is in hand.  When a football team has a late 4th quarter lead, they sit on the ball and run out the clock.  This was no different. 

Not, IMHO, the same thing.  This would be akin to a football team running up a big lead and walking off the field for the final 5 minutes.  At least if you're sitting on the ball, running clock, the other team has a (slim) chance that something will go haywire, they can get the ball, and have some sort of miracle outcome.  At least the team with the lead is still COMPETING.

Reyes basically said "Game over", took his ball, and went home.

[pilferk]

that's too bad, if true. Can't say I'm heartbroken to see him leave, but the collapse was not his fault.
Not that any singular person is to blame, but players who really made it tough to win, like Lackey and Crawford get to stay, only because their contracts make them close to impossible to unload.
It's not Franconas fault, but since he is expendable, he gets the blame.

It's a message being sent to the clubhouse/players (who they can't really punish because they're under contract).  Sox go with a "Yeller" next season, and a hard nose SOB who will make the guys "run laps" all season to stay in shape. 

You know....Bobby Valentine.