2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

The whole All Star process has gotten a bit silly for me - expanded rosters, WS home field etc..

Oh ya, one more thing that has helped detract from the ASG for me - interleague play.

The mystery of seeing Jeter come to a NL park or Pujols go to an AL park is gone, whoopty doo -happens every year..BFD.

Speaking of Albert and DJ, I heard Tim Kurkjian on with Scott Van Pelt today talking about Jeter's iminent move to another position - in 2013..

And by the way, looks like Pujols returns to the Cards lineup tonight - Mr Miyagi is doing a helluva job as Cards trainer (I stole the Miyagi reference from a poster at hardballtalk)

UPDATE: Looks like AP is available to PH, not is starting lineup

Yep, you got your wish he has been activated. Good news for the Cards.

[Falcon]

I really dislike that requirement. A player from every team. What if a team doesn't have someone really worthy?

Much like the DH and interleague play, it's not going anywhere unfortunately.

I enjoy some of baseballs quirks but I sure think it could use some "tightening up" in a few areas.

Oh to be commissioner for day...

It's good to have Albert back for sure, just saw a cut in on MLB Network - it's a bit of a media frenzy to say the least. 



 

[tim_m]

I really dislike that requirement. A player from every team. What if a team doesn't have someone really worthy?

Much like the DH and interleague play, it's not going anywhere unfortunately.

I enjoy some of baseballs quirks but I sure think it could use some "tightening up" in a few areas.

Oh to be commissioner for day...

It's good to have Albert back for sure, just saw a cut in on MLB Network - it's a bit of a media frenzy to say the least. 



 

The DH will never disappear that's for sure. The players will never agree to it. Interleague isn't going anywhere either and if the owners have their way that realignment proposal will happen and we will have it year round.

[faldor]

I really dislike that requirement. A player from every team. What if a team doesn't have someone really worthy?

Much like the DH and interleague play, it's not going anywhere unfortunately.

I enjoy some of baseballs quirks but I sure think it could use some "tightening up" in a few areas.

Oh to be commissioner for day...

It's good to have Albert back for sure, just saw a cut in on MLB Network - it's a bit of a media frenzy to say the least. 



 

I actually like the rule that each team is to be represented at the All Star Game.  If anything, they could expand the rosters, but there is really no need to have 7 Yankees or 7 Red Sox on a team.  Give each team and their fans at least a reason to watch the game and cheer for THEIR player, if he gets in.  We're spoiled being fans of good teams so we can't really sympathize.  But I remember growing up in the early 90's when the Sox had some pretty bad teams.  One year they had ONE All Star, 3B Scott Cooper.  Was he REALLY an All Star?  No, but I still enjoyed seeing him get the opportunity, being a Sox fan.

So that goes for all the KC, Bal, Pit, SD, etc. fans.  Let them have their fun too.

[tim_m]

Wow, Scott Cooper, there's a name i haven't heard in awhile.

[pilferk]

I really dislike that requirement. A player from every team. What if a team doesn't have someone really worthy?

The no pitching thing is stupid too. I mean how many pitchers that were picked initially won't be able to pitch simply cause they pitched on Sunday? I think there is like 5 or 6 at least. That means several pitchers have to be replaced on the roster by someone else maybe someone less deserving and maybe not as good. Personally i think this makes the all star game worse and potentially could effect a team's chance to win. Its time management, coaches etc realize bad mechanics ruin arms not how many pitches you throw. I wanna see a all star game with the best pitchers not their replacements cause of some stupid rule.

THIS is what kills me about the AS game:

It either means something or it doesn't.  They have to decide one way or the other.

If it means something...and you're going to tie WS home field advantage to it (which I'm fine with)...then you let the managers and MLB pick the best players available to play the game.  Sure, you have to have oversight to make sure the manager doesn't just load the team with "his guys"....but you can find ways to do that.  No limit in terms of "how many per team".  None of the "you can't pitch right before and pitch in the game" stuff.   I'm OK with slightly expanded rosters, but the manager should NOT feel they need to play every guy and empty their bullpen. 

If it doesn't mean anything, then stop tying something meaningful to it (like home field in the WS).  I get why Selig did it....after the tie debacle they had to do SOMETHING to "resurrect" the game.  But there are other ways to do that.  The NBA does a pretty slick job of playing a meaningless game and drawing fan interest.  If MLB put their minds to it, they could do it too.  Make it fun...introduce some gimmicks (maybe turn it into a softball game...or allow metal bats....whatever) or play with/modify certain rules.  I'm sure the MLB brain trust (stodgy as it is) could either come up with ideas OR hire someone who can.  THEN you can have the fan vote, limit pitchers participation, include a member of every team...whatever.

But you have to go one way or the other.  Because the hybrid doesn't work very well.

[faldor]

I'm fine with the "This Time It Counts" mantra, as silly as it sounds.  It's far better than the game ending in a tie.  Selig had to do something, so giving the winning division home field in the WS makes as much sense as anything.  With that being said, how much does home field REALLY matter in the World Series?  I honestly don't think it's that big a deal.  Sure it's nice to have, but it's far from decisive.  There have been countless Wild Card teams who have won the World Series over the years without having home field advantage in any round.

So in the end, I don't see it as all that meaningful.  "This Time It Counts" is more of a exercise to make sure "This Time We Don't Have a Tie".

[pilferk]

I'm fine with the "This Time It Counts" mantra, as silly as it sounds.  It's far better than the game ending in a tie.  Selig had to do something, so giving the winning division home field in the WS makes as much sense as anything.  With that being said, how much does home field REALLY matter in the World Series?  I honestly don't think it's that big a deal.  Sure it's nice to have, but it's far from decisive.  There have been countless Wild Card teams who have won the World Series over the years without having home field advantage in any round.

So in the end, I don't see it as all that meaningful.  "This Time It Counts" is more of a exercise to make sure "This Time We Don't Have a Tie".

Again, I'm fine with them doing things that way.

But if you're going to make the game meaningful...then allow the game to be put together, managed, and played like it's meaningful.

Right now it's a hodgepodge of "meaningful" and "fan exhibition".  MLB ties a tangible benefit to the outcome of the game...but ensures that the absolute BEST players are not playing, that the managers do NOT manage the game the same way they would, say, a playoff game, and that at least some of the best pitchers are not eligible to compete.  That makes no sense to me...

Ask the 2009 Phillies if they think home field would have been advantageous vs the Yanks (Matsui 6/10 in YS, 1/3 in CBP).  Ask the 2010 Giants if Home field ended up being meaningful (Vlad was SOOO bad in RF in g1 that he didn't play in g2...at all).  I think, in both cases, the answer would be Yes.  Not just because of the fact they have home field, but because of the adjustments to the DH rule in the NL park....It's not the end all/be all...but it certainly matters.

[tim_m]

I'm glad someone agrees with me that the no pitch rule is stupid. Like you said, they want the game to be meaningful but this year alone 5 or 6 of the best pitchers can't even pitch in the game cause of the no pitch rule. Not allowing some of the best pitchers to pitch makes it less meaningful and less competitive. It also causes worthy pitchers to be left off the team AKA Sabathia.

[Falcon]

Because the hybrid doesn't work very well.

Very true, it's just stupid.

Bottom line for me it's an exhibition game - that's it.

I've already gone on and on about the idiocy of it's bearing on WS home field advantage so I'll save everyone from another diatribe and just  

[faldor]

Because the hybrid doesn't work very well.

Very true, it's just stupid.

Bottom line for me it's an exhibition game - that's it.

I've already gone on and on about the idiocy of it's bearing on WS home field advantage so I'll save everyone from another diatribe and just  

There is no perfect way to decide home field advantage for the World Series though.  Best record?  You have unbalanced schedules, so that's not really a good barometer.  Alternate from year to year?

It is an exhibition, bottom line.  And for the most part, players could care less about winning the game, until it's the 7th inning and it's a close game.  THEN, they may start treating it like it indeed matters.  But if a team jumps out to a 8-0 lead in the first 3 innings, it's lights out.  Also, many players could care less about playing in the game altogether.  I'm not sure what it is, but NBA players seem to LOVE attending and playing in the NBA All Star game.  Maybe it's the shorter season, and the fact that they get more days off in between games.  Maybe it's easier to see family that way.  But many MLB veteran All Stars would rather have the 3 days off than play in the game.  It's a huge honor for guys the first few times, but I highly doubt CC or Mark Texeira are home crying about the fact they didn't get chosen as All Stars.  They'll gladly take the time off and spend it with their families.

Of course, All Star bonuses in players contracts are nice perks, so that could weigh in on the situation.

[pilferk]

I'm not sure what it is, but NBA players seem to LOVE attending and playing in the NBA All Star game.  Maybe it's the shorter season, and the fact that they get more days off in between games. 

It's the way the NBA puts the game on, and the "perks" the players get during the All-Star "festival".  They make it fun.

MLB...from what I've heard/read...not so much.

[Falcon]

Best record?  You have unbalanced schedules, so that's not really a good barometer. 

Uh oh faldor, you hit my flash point with the above.

That's the only way to decide home field in the WS for me.

Balanced/unbalanced has no bearing - they all play a buck 62.

Best record of the last man standing in both leagues should get home field.

Apologies for breaking my vow of  on the subject.
 

[faldor]

All these complaints about the All Star game got me thinking.  Is there anyone would would deny that the MLB All Star game is BY FAR the BEST of the 4 major sports?  The Pro Bowl is a joke, I don't think I've ever managed watching more than 5 consecutive minutes.  The NBA All Star game is also ridiculous.  No defense is played, score ends up 158-149.  MAYBE they start playing some defense for the final 5 minutes or so, but it's beyond boring to watch.  I'm not a hockey fan, so I can't really comment there.  But the MLB All Star game is far more compelling than any of the other sports.

So they must be doing something right.  Maybe we should be focusing on how to fix the OTHER All Star games.

And while the NBA players do love the pageantry of All Star weekend, the guys who actually show up for the Home Run Derby seem to have a blast while they're there.

I'm a fan, and I have little to no complaints with the game itself, how the teams are selected, who's selected, home field.  It's all good in my eyes.  I can remember countless MLB All Star games and moments from the past.  The other sports?  Not so much.



And Falcon, I don't disagree with you about best overall record getting home field.  That's how they do it in the other sports.  It would make sense.  BUT, you'd still have people complaining that the AL East is a much tougher division than the NL West and if the Giants end up with 97 wins and the Yankees end up with 95, can you honestly quantify who is the better team based on the Giants playing an inferior schedule?

Arguments are going to be there, whichever system you choose.

[pilferk]

Depends on what you mean by "best".

NFL's 2011 pro bowl grew 8%, put up an 8.6 rating (which translates to about 15 million viewers).

MLB 2010 All-Star game drew it's lowest ratings EVER (7.1 or about 12.1 million viewers).  It dropped about 16% from 2009.

Both those games were on network TV (Fox), which makes it a bit tough to compare then to the NBA/NHL numbers on cable.

The 2011 NBA all star game pulled a 6.2 rating (about 8.1 million viewers) on TNT (which is a HUGE number, for cable).  They were up about 35%.

The 2011 NHL all star game pulled a 2.0 rating (about 1.5 million viewers) on VS...which is up about 33%.

I'd say, if you consider platform and distribution...MLB would be about 3rd best, overall.  Being on network TV gives you a proven bump.  How much that bump actually translates into is tough to quantify.

If you're talking about "quality of the game"...I'm not sure it's much better than the NBA's or NHL's quality.  Definitely better than the NFL's.  I ENJOY watching the NBA game, more, because it's just fun.  It's like watching a more competitive (and realistic) version of a Globetrotters game...where both teams are the Globetrotters.  It's fun, because it's meant to be fun, and not taken too seriously.

One other note:

The MLB Home run derby is more the equivalent to the Skills contest (Dunk, 3 pt, and rookie game) night during the NBA all star break.

The NBA treats ALL the players who make the AS team like "friggin rock stars".  They're also super family friendly (meaning, friendly to the PLAYERS families).  From what I've heard/read...MLB isn't as nice to their players nor are they as family friendly.

Again, I just want them to pick a direction.  Either change the format so that a meaningful game CAN be played in a meaningful way OR adopt the pagentry and pomp of the NBA's fan exhibition.  But trying to do BOTH doesn't seem to work well.

[pilferk]

Horrible tragedy last night.

So sad....that poor guy and worse, his poor son.

RIP Shannon Stone. 

[tim_m]

All these complaints about the All Star game got me thinking.  Is there anyone would would deny that the MLB All Star game is BY FAR the BEST of the 4 major sports?  The Pro Bowl is a joke, I don't think I've ever managed watching more than 5 consecutive minutes.  The NBA All Star game is also ridiculous.  No defense is played, score ends up 158-149.  MAYBE they start playing some defense for the final 5 minutes or so, but it's beyond boring to watch.  I'm not a hockey fan, so I can't really comment there.  But the MLB All Star game is far more compelling than any of the other sports.

So they must be doing something right.  Maybe we should be focusing on how to fix the OTHER All Star games.

And while the NBA players do love the pageantry of All Star weekend, the guys who actually show up for the Home Run Derby seem to have a blast while they're there.

I'm a fan, and I have little to no complaints with the game itself, how the teams are selected, who's selected, home field.  It's all good in my eyes.  I can remember countless MLB All Star games and moments from the past.  The other sports?  Not so much.



And Falcon, I don't disagree with you about best overall record getting home field.  That's how they do it in the other sports.  It would make sense.  BUT, you'd still have people complaining that the AL East is a much tougher division than the NL West and if the Giants end up with 97 wins and the Yankees end up with 95, can you honestly quantify who is the better team based on the Giants playing an inferior schedule?

Arguments are going to be there, whichever system you choose.

I tend to agree with you here. I enjoy the MLB All Star game most myself. Being a hockey fan i can assure you its not much different from the NFL or NBA. No checking takes place, no real defense. So you have scores of like 12-10.

[tim_m]

Horrible tragedy last night.

So sad....that poor guy and worse, his poor son.

RIP Shannon Stone. 

.
I just saw this on espn.com. How very sad  

[tim_m]

Well the door is open for Teixeira to be added to the all star team. Jeter and A-Rod are going to skip it. Jeter cause he just got back from the calf and A-Rod has a sore knee and is gonna get precautionary MRI. I hope one of the replacements is Tex. He certainly deserves it.

[Falcon]

Looks like they didn't go in Tex's direction, saw this last night.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/09/kevin-youkilis-jhonny-peralta-named-to-al-all-star-team/

The replacements for Alex Rodriguez (knee) and Derek Jeter (calf) are in, and they are the expected names.  Kevin Youkilis and Jhonny Peralta will take the open spots at third base and shortstop on the AL squad.
 
Adrian Beltre and Asdrubal Cabrera will replace Rodriguez and Jeter in the starting lineup.
 
Youkilis leads all major league third basemen with an .884 OPS this season.  He?s hit .275 with 12 homers and 59 RBI for the Red Sox, who moved one game ahead of A-Rod?s Yankees for first place in the AL East by beating Baltimore tonight.
 
Peralta has hit .313/.364/.533 for an .897 OPS that leads AL shortstops.  He?s homered 14 times and driven in 50 runs for a Tigers team that has pulled with a half-game of the Indians for first place in the AL Central