2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

Who's heard the news about Gary Carter? Very very sad news. 

[AxlsMainMan]

A Waste of Money: The 10 Worst Signings in Chicago Cubs History:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/723320-a-waste-of-money-the-10-worst-signings-in-chicago-cubs-history#/articles/723320-a-waste-of-money-the-10-worst-signings-in-chicago-cubs-history

[pilferk]

Joba needs Tommy John.

Yanks are probably going to have a tough remaining season.  Their bullpen...which they NEED...is pretty much shot.

[faldor]

Joba needs Tommy John.

Yanks are probably going to have a tough remaining season.  Their bullpen...which they NEED...is pretty much shot.

I saw that last night.  Tough break, as he had been pitching well out of the pen this year.  I heard they have a kid in AAA that's pitching quite well they could try and fill that role, but it's not going to be easy.  And trading for relief help isn't an exact science either.  When is Soriano due back?

The Sox sort of exposed the Yankees suspect starting pitching in the last 3 days.  Freddy Garcia had nothing in the first game.  Burnett looked like his inconsistent self, and they finally got to CC after 6 really strong innings last night.  Colon is still pitching like he's 25 years old again, but we'll see how long that lasts.  If it doesn't, the Yankees will be in even more trouble.  I never count them out though, too much talent/resources there to do that.

[GeorgeSteele]

Joba needs Tommy John.

Yanks are probably going to have a tough remaining season.  Their bullpen...which they NEED...is pretty much shot.

K-Rod's available...

[pilferk]

I saw that last night.  Tough break, as he had been pitching well out of the pen this year.  I heard they have a kid in AAA that's pitching quite well they could try and fill that role, but it's not going to be easy.  And trading for relief help isn't an exact science either.  When is Soriano due back?

At least another month.  Hughes is probably closer to returning than Soriano is.  When Hughes enters the rotation, Garcia will probably go to the pen...but that's not going to be much help, IMHO.  And Nova isn't suited to bullpen work, anyway, so it wouldn't help much to leave Garcia in the rotation and remove Nova.

The Sox sort of exposed the Yankees suspect starting pitching in the last 3 days.  Freddy Garcia had nothing in the first game.  Burnett looked like his inconsistent self, and they finally got to CC after 6 really strong innings last night.  Colon is still pitching like he's 25 years old again, but we'll see how long that lasts.  If it doesn't, the Yankees will be in even more trouble.  I never count them out though, too much talent/resources there to do that.

The yanks starters had a bad turn.  I'm not sure they were "exposed" (other than Garcia) so much as they all had bad innings and the Sox lineup made them pay.  AJ was pretty good, other than the 1st inning. CC was almost untouchable...until the 7th.  And I have faith that, were the bullpen a bit longer, you probably would have seen a different outcome (and tactic by Girardi).  I don't think CC stays once the score is tied if Joba AND D-Rob are available, never mind if Joba/D-rob/Soriano are available.  But that 's what I mean when I say they NEED their bullpen....

I console myself with memories of 2009, how the early season vs the Red Sox went, and how it ended up.  The problem is:  They've got serious issues they need to address, now.  With their pen, and with the return of Hughes, they would probably be fine. But with the pen in the shape it's in adn with the starters they have, ESPECIALLY with Garcia and Nova, they're in trouble.

[pilferk]

[K-Rod's available...

No thanks.

[faldor]

Well, "exposed" may be reaching, but I didn't expect the Yankee rotation to be that good this year.  And they've pitched way above their heads to this point.  CC is still great, nothing to worry about there.  AJ is what he is, inconsistent, though he was pitching more consistently well so far this season.  And Nova is okay as a back end guy.  But Garcia and Colon came out of nowhere and were pitching lights out.  Well Freddy got knocked down a few pegs the other night.  Maybe it was just a bad start and he'll return to form, I just thought it would eventually happen.  So I'd expect more of the same down the line.  I just don't think he's as good as he had pitched to start the season.  With that being said, he'd probably not quite as bad as he was the other night either, so he'll fall somewhere in between.  Colon and his magic doctor are still an anomaly, and maybe he'll keep up his high level of performance. 

But the pitching overall is in a state of flux right now, and that had been carrying them to this point.  The lineup has struggled to create runs outside of the long ball and many guys are performing below their capabilities.  I expect that to even out.  Their hitting will get better, and more consistent.  Their pitching will go the other way.  But in the end, I don't think they're going anywhere.  They'll be in the race for some time.

[pilferk]

Well, "exposed" may be reaching, but I didn't expect the Yankee rotation to be that good this year.  And they've pitched way above their heads to this point.  CC is still great, nothing to worry about there.  AJ is what he is, inconsistent, though he was pitching more consistently well so far this season.  And Nova is okay as a back end guy.  But Garcia and Colon came out of nowhere and were pitching lights out.  Well Freddy got knocked down a few pegs the other night.  Maybe it was just a bad start and he'll return to form, I just thought it would eventually happen.  So I'd expect more of the same down the line.  I just don't think he's as good as he had pitched to start the season.  With that being said, he'd probably not quite as bad as he was the other night either, so he'll fall somewhere in between.  Colon and his magic doctor are still an anomaly, and maybe he'll keep up his high level of performance. 

Garcia's pitching with smoke and mirrors...for sure.  He's going to struggle against good offensive teams (like the Sox) and he MIGHT be fine against teams that aren't very patient or don't have much in the way of offensive skills (like the A's).  He's a band-aid, at this point, anyway.

AJ has been pretty good, so far.  He's been able to stop the bleeding and get through innings limiting damage.  His control has been a LOT better this year, too.....definitely more "good AJ" than "Bad AJ".   He had a bad start...his first one in awhile, actually.  But if he can give them 6 innings of 3/4 run ball (and, til last night, largely he has), he's doing what I expect him to.  I think I read that he's given them 7 "quality starts" out of his 10.  I'm good with that.

But the pitching overall is in a state of flux right now, and that had been carrying them to this point.  The lineup has struggled to create runs outside of the long ball and many guys are performing below their capabilities.  I expect that to even out.  Their hitting will get better, and more consistent.  Their pitching will go the other way.  But in the end, I don't think they're going anywhere.  They'll be in the race for some time.

They've done a lot better (til this series) of manufacturing runs lately.  I'm OK with that piece.
Their pitching won't change much, IMHO.  I think CC, Colon, and AJ will probably pitch much the way they have for the first 60 games.  I think Nova might drop off.  I think Garcia will end up on as either the long reliever or on the scrap heap.  Hughes I expect to rebound. The reports out of Tampa are that he's throwing mostly in the low 90's...92-ish.  If that's the case, he'll be in good shape when he returns in about 2 or 3 weeks....assuming no setbacks.

But, aside from CC, NONE of those guys are going to be innings eaters.  You're going to get 6 out of them, usually.  Which means the pen is uber-important.

[AxlsMainMan]

Still say the Yanks should give Pedro Martinez a call.

[tim_m]

I'm chalking up the Garcia start to just a bad start. His pitches just were flat that night no movement whatsoever. He's a control/command guy and when he doesn't have that he gets hit hard. That's simply what happened Tuesday night. Burnett really didn't pitch terribly in that game. He had that one really bad first inning then kept us in the game until the bullpen let it get away.

[faldor]

I'm chalking up the Garcia start to just a bad start. His pitches just were flat that night no movement whatsoever. He's a control/command guy and when he doesn't have that he gets hit hard. That's simply what happened Tuesday night. Burnett really didn't pitch terribly in that game. He had that one really bad first inning then kept us in the game until the bullpen let it get away.

I think you're giving AJ a little too much credit.  He gave up 8 runs, 7 earned in less than 6 innings of work.  He gave up 3 runs in the 1st AND 4th innings.  I wouldn't call that keeping your team in the game.  It was the Yankee offense who kept the team within striking distance until the bullpen gave up another 3 insurance runs in the 9th.

[tim_m]

He didn't completely implode though like he would have last year. If it was last year those runs would've all been one inning and he wouldn't have touched the 6th inning in that game with a 10 foot pole.

[faldor]

He didn't completely implode though like he would have last year. If it was last year those runs would've all been one inning and he wouldn't have touched the 6th inning in that game with a 10 foot pole.

If Garcia hadn't gotten pulled in the 2nd inning the night before AJ probably wouldn't have sniffed the 6th inning either.  The Yankees had no choice but to leave him in the game, it wasn't that they had faith he'd settle down and put up some zeroes on the board.  It was a bad start, especially knowing you need to give your team quality innings.  He gave them innings, but they weren't good ones.  If you're fine with giving up 8 runs in 5.2, alright.  But I'd expect more from my #2 in that spot.

Especially if you factor in that AJ was going against Wakefield in the game.  You head into the series with that being the one game where you have a clear pitching advantage on the Yankees side, at least on paper.  The Yankees have hit Wakefield hard in recent years, and they did manage 5 runs off him that night.  If AJ can't give his team a better chance at winning that game WITH that run support, again, that's not a good start.  Maybe it's not terrible, but I think it's pretty close to it.  Wake is the 6th or 7th starter for the Sox and it's not like he had a sterling performance or anything.  He did what was expected.  Burnett did not, or at least not what Yankees fans SHOULD expect from him.  For me, it looked like the same old AJ.

[LongGoneDay]

Safe to say AJ has been a total bust for the Yanks. Looked like a bad signing at the time of the deal, and looks so much worse now. Look at his record vs the team they essentially signed him to beat. Not to mention last years performance was one of the worst in yankee history. All the talent in the world, but its not translating to much success.

[faldor]

Safe to say AJ has been a total bust for the Yanks. Looked like a bad signing at the time of the deal, and looks so much worse now. Look at his record vs the team they essentially signed him to beat. Not to mention last years performance was one of the worst in yankee history. All the talent in the world, but its not translating to much success.

In their defense though, AJ was lights out against Boston before he came to NY, from what I remember.  Seems like just another guy who can't put it together in a big market.  Although he never really lived up to his potential aside from his contract year in Toronto, which is so often the case.

Also, you could say the same for the Sox and John Lackey.  He got the same contract as AJ, I believe, and has been equally as bad, if not worse.  Luckily for them though, they have 3 pitchers ahead of him in the rotation.  The Yanks don't have that luxury.  Colon looked fantastic again yesterday but then pulled up lame on a play to first and it looks like he's headed for the DL, which is the last thing the Yanks needed to happen.

[LongGoneDay]

Oh yea, totally agree.
I think the Lackey signing was even worse because at least AJ has the stuff to get the job done. Lackey doesnt. Hes simply overmatched in the AL East. There was no way he was ever gonna live up to that deal.

[pilferk]

Safe to say AJ has been a total bust for the Yanks. Looked like a bad signing at the time of the deal, and looks so much worse now. Look at his record vs the team they essentially signed him to beat. Not to mention last years performance was one of the worst in yankee history. All the talent in the world, but its not translating to much success.

I think that's a tough case to make.

He was instrumental in winning them a WS in 2009.

He had an atrocious 2010.

So far, in 2011, he's been pretty good...one start vs the Red Sox not withstanding.

I will agree he was vastly overpaid...but then, so is a LOT of pitching talent in the league.  There's lots of examples all over the place (and not just Lackey).  But if your expectations are that the guy will get you 12 to 15 wins every year...he's probably going to be able to do that.  It's tough to make the case he's been a "bust", 3 years into the deal.  At worst, I'd say the jury is still out.

I agree he's not really a number 2...that's what the Yanks staff is missing (although Colon has stepped into that role, nicely...we'll see what happens when he comes off the DL).  He's a solid #3 on a playoff/championship caliber team (and, probably, a #2 almost everywhere else).  I think THAT'S what you expect from him, reasonably...no matter what his paycheck is.  If you looked at his career numbers prior to signing with the Yanks, that's what everyone SHOULD be expecting...because that's what he's always been.

[Falcon]

Watching the Nationals jump out on the Cards again tonight with Jayson Werth's walkup song being the outtro to November Rain.

I've never liked that song and now I officially hate it with the fire of a 1000 suns.  Werth just went deep for the second time this series - about 900 feet worth (pun intended) of power ballad.. 

I'm in baseball hell.

[Falcon]

I'm in baseball hell.

And now more interleague drivel...