What do they bring to the table? (The new album)

[Spirit]

He did stuff on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute as well, so seems like he's worked on at least 8 songs in total.

I gotta say, when listening to the orchestral tracks of those songs, they're really good.

And he has only named songs that weren't included on CD. What do you think about that?

Either he hadn't worked on the Chinese songs yet at the time, or maybe he considered Seven, The General, Leave Me Alone and Thyme as the best songs. Hopefully the latter. 

[Spirit]

Jarmo, did you ever get to meet Paul? Was he ever attending any concerts from 2006 and onwards?

Not that I remember....



/jarmo

I guess he removed himself from the touring life altogether, as it wasn't something he seemed to enjoy.

If I were in his shoes, I would probably be a little curious about how the songs I had helped write were received with an audience. Even though there were other people playing my parts.

Sort of like a screening of a movie with the actors and director present.

[Sosso]

He did stuff on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute as well, so seems like he's worked on at least 8 songs in total.

I gotta say, when listening to the orchestral tracks of those songs, they're really good.

And he has only named songs that weren't included on CD. What do you think about that?

Either he hadn't worked on the Chinese songs yet at the time, or maybe he considered Seven, The General, Leave Me Alone and Thyme as the best songs. Hopefully the latter. 

Yes, most likely the latter. Or maybe he just thought that the songs would be on the album too.

[Spirit]

He did stuff on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute as well, so seems like he's worked on at least 8 songs in total.

I gotta say, when listening to the orchestral tracks of those songs, they're really good.

And he has only named songs that weren't included on CD. What do you think about that?

Either he hadn't worked on the Chinese songs yet at the time, or maybe he considered Seven, The General, Leave Me Alone and Thyme as the best songs. Hopefully the latter. 

Yes, most likely the latter. Or maybe he just thought that the songs would be on the album too.

What's also interesting is that he says they were complete instrumental tracks when he started working on them. It backs up the notion that "CD 2" has probably been done for a while, maybe even at the time Chinese came out in 2008.

Maybe without vocal tracks though.

Didn't Axl say that in the future he would want to go back to a melody and music approach to writing songs ? not starting on the lyrics and vocal melody when all the music was finished. But rather doing them at the same time, a more organic way of creating the songs.

I'm no expert, but maybe it has proven to be hard to come up with the lyrics and melody at the end, like they did the songs on Chinese.

[Sosso]

He did stuff on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute as well, so seems like he's worked on at least 8 songs in total.

I gotta say, when listening to the orchestral tracks of those songs, they're really good.

And he has only named songs that weren't included on CD. What do you think about that?

Either he hadn't worked on the Chinese songs yet at the time, or maybe he considered Seven, The General, Leave Me Alone and Thyme as the best songs. Hopefully the latter. 

Yes, most likely the latter. Or maybe he just thought that the songs would be on the album too.

What's also interesting is that he says they were complete instrumental tracks when he started working on them. It backs up the notion that "CD 2" has probably been done for a while, maybe even at the time Chinese came out in 2008.

Maybe without vocal tracks though.

Didn't Axl say that in the future he would want to go back to a melody and music approach to writing songs ? not starting on the lyrics and vocal melody when all the music was finished. But rather doing them at the same time, a more organic way of creating the songs.

I'm no expert, but maybe it has proven to be hard to come up with the lyrics and melody at the end, like they did the songs on Chinese.

Robin Finck and Patti Hood have both said the same thing. So it's not really a proof that the lyrics weren't done at all.

[Spirit]

He did stuff on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute as well, so seems like he's worked on at least 8 songs in total.

I gotta say, when listening to the orchestral tracks of those songs, they're really good.

And he has only named songs that weren't included on CD. What do you think about that?

Either he hadn't worked on the Chinese songs yet at the time, or maybe he considered Seven, The General, Leave Me Alone and Thyme as the best songs. Hopefully the latter. 

Yes, most likely the latter. Or maybe he just thought that the songs would be on the album too.

What's also interesting is that he says they were complete instrumental tracks when he started working on them. It backs up the notion that "CD 2" has probably been done for a while, maybe even at the time Chinese came out in 2008.

Maybe without vocal tracks though.

Didn't Axl say that in the future he would want to go back to a melody and music approach to writing songs ? not starting on the lyrics and vocal melody when all the music was finished. But rather doing them at the same time, a more organic way of creating the songs.

I'm no expert, but maybe it has proven to be hard to come up with the lyrics and melody at the end, like they did the songs on Chinese.

Robin Finck and Patti Hood have both said the same thing. So it's not really a proof that the lyrics weren't done at all.

The lyrics might have been done, but not the vocal tracks.

I think it has been said that the vocals were done last on the Chinese songs.

[EmilyGNR]

It isn't that unusual to lay down vocals last, after the majority of other required tracks are done-or near done.

[Spirit]

It isn't that unusual to lay down vocals last, after the majority of other required tracks are done-or near done.

That's true. You need the music to sing.

But you could still come up with the lyrics and vocal melody at the same time as the music, before even. That wasn't the case with Chinese per Axl. He wrote the lyrics and vocal melody after the music was done.

I'm no musician, so I don't know for sure what's the hardest way to do it.

[EmilyGNR]

It isn't that unusual to lay down vocals last, after the majority of other required tracks are done-or near done.

That's true. You need the music to sing.

But you could still come up with the lyrics and vocal melody at the same time as the music, before even. That wasn't the case with Chinese per Axl. He wrote the lyrics and vocal melody after the music was done.

I'm no musician, so I don't know for sure what's the hardest way to do it.

Despite what the E-experts say,there is no "correct" method, people compose using different formulas, at different times and even on different songs within the same album.

[Spirit]

It isn't that unusual to lay down vocals last, after the majority of other required tracks are done-or near done.

That's true. You need the music to sing.

But you could still come up with the lyrics and vocal melody at the same time as the music, before even. That wasn't the case with Chinese per Axl. He wrote the lyrics and vocal melody after the music was done.

I'm no musician, so I don't know for sure what's the hardest way to do it.

Despite what the E-experts say,there is no "correct" method, people compose using different formulas, at different times and even on different songs within the same album.

Look, I'm not saying that this is the wrong way to go about it. It's not a discussion on what's more correct ? it's not a criticism of Axl's way of doing things.

What I am saying is that maybe Axl wanted to do the songs this way, sort of like a challenge for himself to push his creativity to new levels. I don't know if he had done songs this way before. The result might be that the songs on Chinese became better than they otherwise would have been if he had written the vocal parts in a more traditional way.

What I am speculating in is that the challenge he set himself maybe proved to be a bit harder than he envisioned. That's why I posed the question if doing songs this way is harder than any other way, I don't know.

He himself said in interviews that he wanted to go back to writing songs with melody and music in mind from the get go, that made me think that he sees this as an easier approach to song writing. Maybe not as time consuming as the other method.

We do know that there were vocal tracks to the songs that wound up on the Chinese record at the time Mr. Beltrami worked with Guns. But Axl might not have gotten around to create/finish up lyrics and vocals to tracks like Seven, Leave Me Alone, Thyme and The General at that time, just because it can be a daunting task to make melodies to already existing music (that's the question I'm posing).

Maybe this is part of the reason the track list on Chinese became what it did ? those were the songs that got 100% finished first simply. Actually, if that is the reason we can throw out any idea of an A- and B-list of songs, they're all A-list.

[Sosso]

I don't wanna miss Beltrami's and Buckmaster's orchestral arrangements on the forthcoming albums.

[EmilyGNR]

It isn't that unusual to lay down vocals last, after the majority of other required tracks are done-or near done.

That's true. You need the music to sing.

But you could still come up with the lyrics and vocal melody at the same time as the music, before even. That wasn't the case with Chinese per Axl. He wrote the lyrics and vocal melody after the music was done.

I'm no musician, so I don't know for sure what's the hardest way to do it.

Despite what the E-experts say,there is no "correct" method, people compose using different formulas, at different times and even on different songs within the same album.

Look, I'm not saying that this is the wrong way to go about it. It's not a discussion on what's more correct ? it's not a criticism of Axl's way of doing things.

What I am saying is that maybe Axl wanted to do the songs this way, sort of like a challenge for himself to push his creativity to new levels. I don't know if he had done songs this way before. The result might be that the songs on Chinese became better than they otherwise would have been if he had written the vocal parts in a more traditional way.

What I am speculating in is that the challenge he set himself maybe proved to be a bit harder than he envisioned. That's why I posed the question if doing songs this way is harder than any other way, I don't know.

He himself said in interviews that he wanted to go back to writing songs with melody and music in mind from the get go, that made me think that he sees this as an easier approach to song writing. Maybe not as time consuming as the other method.

We do know that there were vocal tracks to the songs that wound up on the Chinese record at the time Mr. Beltrami worked with Guns. But Axl might not have gotten around to create/finish up lyrics and vocals to tracks like Seven, Leave Me Alone, Thyme and The General at that time, just because it can be a daunting task to make melodies to already existing music (that's the question I'm posing).

Maybe this is part of the reason the track list on Chinese became what it did ? those were the songs that got 100% finished first simply. Actually, if that is the reason we can throw out any idea of an A- and B-list of songs, they're all A-list.

I don't honestly participate in all the speculative "we know" topics, no offense, I just dont.

I've known a few people to lay down vocal tracks as a final step. Before editing-mixing etc, that is what I was talking about.

[Spirit]

In this case "I don't know", that's why I put it out there. I don't know if it's harder to make up a vocal melody to a finished instrumental track rather than come up with the vocal melody along with making the music. I'm no musician so I've never done either.

I just remember Axl bringing up this very point about the making of Chinese Democracy. That made me, an amateur in this field, think it could have some significance.

[rebelhipi]

I dont see One Man Mutiny as a gnr song.

But i absolutely love the album. Village Gorilla Head is great also. Songs like Come to Hide and OK. comes to my mind first. After not listening for those for a while.

[sky dog]

I am pretty sure Maynard from Tool does his lyrics and vocals after the song is constructed.

[sky dog]

 Tool is finally making progress on their next LP with one finished track and 10 songs that are almost ready for singer Maynard James Keenan, who adds his vocal parts after the instrumentals have been constructed. "Some of it's really heavy, some of it's complex and some is more atmospheric, but it's definitely Tool. I think having this lawsuit out of the way should really speed of the progress of getting the album done," Jones said, noting that while they'd like to finish the album by the end of 2015, Tool won't be governed by "an arbitrary deadline."In February, Keenan told fans after a studio visit, "Things are progressing nicely. Slowly, but definitely progressing. Nothing is recorded yet, but the guys are confident that the pieces are coming together swimmingly and will be ready for me to begin writing melodies and content 'soon.'"

 

ps....note, "Tool won't be governed by an arbitrary deadline". Sound familiar? 

[Sosso]

It's the same (or almost the same) with Dr. Dre's never released Album 'Detox'

[ice cream sand pig]

Tool is finally making progress on their next LP with one finished track and 10 songs that are almost ready for singer Maynard James Keenan, who adds his vocal parts after the instrumentals have been constructed. "Some of it's really heavy, some of it's complex and some is more atmospheric, but it's definitely Tool. I think having this lawsuit out of the way should really speed of the progress of getting the album done," Jones said, noting that while they'd like to finish the album by the end of 2015, Tool won't be governed by "an arbitrary deadline."In February, Keenan told fans after a studio visit, "Things are progressing nicely. Slowly, but definitely progressing. Nothing is recorded yet, but the guys are confident that the pieces are coming together swimmingly and will be ready for me to begin writing melodies and content 'soon.'"

 

ps....note, "Tool won't be governed by an arbitrary deadline". Sound familiar? 

Good for Maynard. The idea of needing to rush or take shit from anyone when you're working on your own art is kind of silly, unless you're one of those guys that has to paint a portrait of the King. In that case you could get your head chopped off and you better just do what you're told. But as for Axl and Maynard, they are pretty much their own Kings.

[D-GenerationX]

It's the same (or almost the same) with Dr. Dre's never released Album 'Detox'

Huge fan of The Doctor, my alltime favorite guy in rap, but I don't think that thing is ever coming out.

He's barely even producing much these past few years, for anybody.  Forget whole albums, a few tracks here and there are all he's doing.  And even then they are rarely singles.

[Spirit]

Dr. Dre producing a GN'R single would have been interesting to hear.