The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[tim_m]

Cool Thunder!  I hope the LeBron's lose.

So does everyone not in Miami. 

And Washington 

Good point, i didn't think of that, but i would think their problem is more with the owner not the team itself.

[tim_m]

Who on the Heat paid off the refs to throw that one? That was clearly a foul at the end of the game.

[SpecialAgentCooper]

Who on the Heat paid off the refs to throw that one? That was clearly a foul at the end of the game.

lots of bad calls in that game....brings new meaning to "buying" a ring


Coop

[tim_m]

Who on the Heat paid off the refs to throw that one? That was clearly a foul at the end of the game.

lots of bad calls in that game....brings new meaning to "buying" a ring


Coop

Can't forget that goaltending call either. That was a clean block. Those two missed calls could've been the difference in the game.

[tim_m]

Goodbye, Thunder. FUCK!

[Bodhi]

yeah, sad day for the NBA in my opinion.  Proof that you can take a short cut to a title.  Also proof that a title ISN"T everything.  Yes Lebron has a ring and I guess Chris Bosh is getting one too, but their path to a title was nowhere near as hard as Barkley's was or Stockton and Malone.  Like everything in life, timing is everything.  Lebron deserves a title, he is a hard worker and the best player in the universe but its not that impressive how he got it.  This is also not just me hating on the Heat as I have said the same about Tim Duncan who I like a lot and have a tremendous amount of respect for.  The only time the Spurs ever won the title was during the Lakers "off" years.

[faldor]

Guess I can no longer hate on Lebron.  Like Peyton Manning and Alex Rodriguez before him, he now has that elusive title. 

I now feel worse that the Celtics gave away that series to the Heat.  I mean, I didn't think they'd have much of a chance in the Finals but after watching the Heat dominate the inexperienced Thunder I have to think twice about that.  You know what they say.  Defense wins championships, and they don't play much defense in the Western Conference.  Of course it helps when you have a guy like Lebron playing such fantastic defense that he never commits a foul.    The NBA wanted the Heat to win.  Not saying that's why they won, but they got what they wanted.  And they're going to want to see the Heat become a dynasty as well, so get accustomed to it.

[tim_m]

The Thunder are a good young team and they will be back. I think several things contributed to them losing. 1. their youth: they are still learning how to win, how to be a champion. They will be stronger for this experience in the end. A young team has to go through these types of struggles to become a champion. 2. their defense: they got away from the defense that worked. In game 1 they played zone defense and it stifled the Heat. After that they went to man to man and you cannot play the Heat that way. They are way too talented to play man to man defense. They move the ball too much and they'll find the open man every damn time. 3. they were a jump shooting team. You have got to attack the basket and get in the paint if you want to win in this league. Too many times they settled for jumpshots and didn't attack the heat.

[pilferk]

Interesting stats:

Since facing elimination (down 3-2 to the C's):

The Heat went 6-1 against pretty stiff competition.

Lebron averaged 31 points, 11 rebounds, 6 assists per game.  That's a pretty healthy stat line.

Last 2 games vs OKC, he was ONE rebound short (in game 4) of back to back triple doubles.

He is not my favorite person, but give the devil his due: He's got a ring, now, and he's largely the reason why the Heat won.

[LongGoneDay]

yeah, sad day for the NBA in my opinion.  Proof that you can take a short cut to a title.  Also proof that a title ISN"T everything.  Yes Lebron has a ring and I guess Chris Bosh is getting one too, but their path to a title was nowhere near as hard as Barkley's was or Stockton and Malone.  Like everything in life, timing is everything.  Lebron deserves a title, he is a hard worker and the best player in the universe but its not that impressive how he got it.  This is also not just me hating on the Heat as I have said the same about Tim Duncan who I like a lot and have a tremendous amount of respect for.  The only time the Spurs ever won the title was during the Lakers "off" years.

Your evaluation of Tim Duncan doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
He is one of the best players of his generation. He is everything you want in your star player. He's unselfish, he's a leader, and he produces.
If there were more players with his attitude, the NBA might not be the joke it's become.
Sure he's in the right place at the right time since he played with another great in Robinson, coached by Poppovic, and has a great cast in Parker and Ginobli, but take TD away and you're looking at 0 rings, and I'm not sure how you can hold those things against him.

I agree with you to an extent that Miami bought it's championship, but find it strange that in the next sentence you would go on to trash the guy who has done the opposite, and remained loyal to his team throughout his career, and is also the single biggest reason his team has the highest winning percentage in any sport since his rookie season.

If the Lakers don't in bound a pass turn and shoot all within .4 seconds on the clock in game 6, which was a hell of a shot by Fisher, but I think we can all agree was total bullshit, the Spurs are probably looking at 5 rings. Health has been the Spurs enemy. They were healthy enough to win 4, but who knows how many they may have had if they didn't consistently lose Manu and Parker for long stretches over the past few seasons.

Anyways, congrats to any Heat fans.
You knew it was gonna be a tough series when Durant was in constant foul trouble the first couple games.
They certainly looked like an inexperienced team in the Finals. Makes you wonder if the C's had put Miami away when they had the chance..

Credit to Lebron, he played like a monster all series.

[Bodhi]

yeah, sad day for the NBA in my opinion.  Proof that you can take a short cut to a title.  Also proof that a title ISN"T everything.  Yes Lebron has a ring and I guess Chris Bosh is getting one too, but their path to a title was nowhere near as hard as Barkley's was or Stockton and Malone.  He came in when Jordan left.   Like everything in life, timing is everything.  Lebron deserves a title, he is a hard worker and the best player in the universe but its not that impressive how he got it.  This is also not just me hating on the Heat as I have said the same about Tim Duncan who I like a lot and have a tremendous amount of respect for.  The only time the Spurs ever won the title was during the Lakers "off" years.

Your evaluation of Tim Duncan doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
He is one of the best players of his generation. He is everything you want in your star player. He's unselfish, he's a leader, and he produces.
If there were more players with his attitude, the NBA might not be the joke it's become.
Sure he's in the right place at the right time since he played with another great in Robinson, coached by Poppovic, and has a great cast in Parker and Ginobli, but take TD away and you're looking at 0 rings, and I'm not sure how you can hold those things against him.

I never said anything bad about Duncan he is everything you want in a star player. but his teams beat lackluster teams in the NBA finals.  The teams he had to beat for the title were not as good as the ones Barkley, Stockton, Malone and Ewing had to go up against.  So the argument is a ring isn't everything.  People treat a title like it is the be all end all discussion of greatness, but it isn't because, all rings are not created equal.  Timing is everything, like with Lebron's title, far from the most impressive playoff run I have seen in my life.  The Knicks wouldnt have made the playoffs in the 90's and the Pacers would have been an 8th seed at best.  You can debate teams from eras all day and never come to a solid conclusion everyone can agree on .  I am just saying this Heat title is not overly impressive to me.  Better teams than the Heat were left ringless playing in a tougher era.

[LongGoneDay]

yeah, sad day for the NBA in my opinion.  Proof that you can take a short cut to a title.  Also proof that a title ISN"T everything.  Yes Lebron has a ring and I guess Chris Bosh is getting one too, but their path to a title was nowhere near as hard as Barkley's was or Stockton and Malone.  He came in when Jordan left.   Like everything in life, timing is everything.  Lebron deserves a title, he is a hard worker and the best player in the universe but its not that impressive how he got it.  This is also not just me hating on the Heat as I have said the same about Tim Duncan who I like a lot and have a tremendous amount of respect for.  The only time the Spurs ever won the title was during the Lakers "off" years.

Your evaluation of Tim Duncan doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
He is one of the best players of his generation. He is everything you want in your star player. He's unselfish, he's a leader, and he produces.
If there were more players with his attitude, the NBA might not be the joke it's become.
Sure he's in the right place at the right time since he played with another great in Robinson, coached by Poppovic, and has a great cast in Parker and Ginobli, but take TD away and you're looking at 0 rings, and I'm not sure how you can hold those things against him.

I never said anything bad about Duncan he is everything you want in a star player. but his teams beat lackluster teams int the NBA finals.  The teams he had to beat for the title where not as good as the ones Barkley, Stockton, Malone and Ewing had to go up against.  So the argument is a ring isn't everything.  People treat a title like it is the be all and all discussion of greatness, but it isn't because, all rings are not created equal.  Timing is everything, like with Lebron's title, far from the most impressive playoff run I have seen in my life.  The Knicks wouldnt have made the playoffs in the 90's and the Pacers would have been an 8th seed at best.  You can debate teams from eras all day and never come to a solid conclusion everyone can agree on .  I am just saying this Heat title is not overly impressive to me.  Better teams than the Heat were left ringless playing in a tougher era.

Gotcha. That game can go on forever though. Granted I see things through green tinted glasses, but Miami doesn't get past Boston with Bradley on the court this year, and the Lakers aren't getting past them in 2010 if KG isn't playing on one leg. It's all make believe though. Can't hold it against the champs, they don't decide who they play or who's healthy.

Agreed it's not the most impressive run as a team, but I have to tip my cap to Lebron. Granted he brought the scrutiny on himself, and god knows he gets lots of help from the zebras, but he came to play this postseason. He was a one man team at times.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I'm leaning towards retiring from the NBA when Kobe hangs up his sneaks.

When the WWE is more unpredictable than your favorite sports league, something is totally wrong.

[AxlsMainMan]

The Value of Ray Allen

To bring Ray Allen back, or let him leave for another team, that is one of the biggest questions facing the Boston Celtics this summer. The prevailing wisdom seems to be it is in the best interest of the Boston Celtics to let Ray Allen leave for another team because they have up and coming guard Avery Bradley to replace him and Allen will be unwilling to share the shooting guard duties with Bradley for less money than is projected to be offered by other teams.

Money is always an issue in modern sports and it is quite possible that Ray Allen would want more money than the Celtics are willing to give him.  However, there are many reasons why Allen's worth to the Celtics is more than many have estimated, and it would be wise for the Celtics to match any offer made to the All-Star guard. Over the course of the last two seasons his shooting percentage from both inside and outside the three point line has been at the highest level of his career. With Allen on the floor other teams cannot double team Kevin Garnett in the post or play zone to keep Rajon Rondo and Paul Pierce from driving to the basket.  Quite simply, by standing on the court he creates opportunities for his teammates.

Another reason is that many of the teams who seem ready to throw money at Ray Allen, the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls and New York Knicks are direct competitors of the Celtics in the Eastern Conference.  Does it make sense to let your best shooter go to a team that you are competing against to reach the NBA Finals? Especially when that person would be filling the same role for your competitor that they would be filling for you?

Ray Allen on the Heat opens up floor space for Lebron James and Dwayne Wade. Can you imagine the statistics Wade and James would put with Allen on the floor?  James could possibly average a triple double for the whole season.  Imagine Allen with the Knicks; Amare Stoudemire's scoring total could increase to the level when he played for the Phoenix Suns because teams would no longer be able to send a second defender to help guard him in the high and low post.  Stick Allen on the Bulls and the same thing happens for Carlos Boozer. There is a good possibility he could return to the 20-10 numbers of his days in Utah. Not to mention the space that will open up for Derrick Rose on the floor when he returns from his injury.

If Ray Allen is worth X amount of dollars for two years to the Heat, Bulls and Knicks to play 25-28 minutes a game,  it makes sense that he is worth that same amount to the Boston Celtics to space the floor and open up opportunities for his teammates to score.  Additionally, keeping Allen around will take pressure off Avery Bradley to produce big numbers for the Celtics. Bradley is still only 21 years old and having future Hall of Famer Ray Allen on the team will allow Bradley to grow into the position, instead of being forced to produce big numbers despite having yet to play a full NBA season.

Taking all of this into consideration makes question of should the Celtics bring Ray Allen back easy to answer. That answer is yes they should.

http://www.ibtimes.com/sportsnet/nba/the-value-of-ray-allen_294.htm

[faldor]

I agree about bringing Ray back for a few more years, but I don't think it'll happen.  He is still a great 3 point shooter, and by far the best they have.  Bradley is a good player, and better overall player at this point.  But he is nowhere near the shooter.  And I don't think they can get anyone through the draft or free agency who can spread the floor like Ray does.  It doesn't seem like they're all that interested in bringing him back though.  It's almost a forgone conclusion that he will be playing elsewhere next season.

[LongGoneDay]

I agree about bringing Ray back for a few more years, but I don't think it'll happen.  He is still a great 3 point shooter, and by far the best they have.  Bradley is a good player, and better overall player at this point.  But he is nowhere near the shooter.  And I don't think they can get anyone through the draft or free agency who can spread the floor like Ray does.  It doesn't seem like they're all that interested in bringing him back though.  It's almost a forgone conclusion that he will be playing elsewhere next season.

I think there's a good chance he's back.
In the end it will come down to what KG decides, and how much these guys are willing to play for.
Is it worth it to them to take less money to play for Doc?
Ray could prob get more money and (hate to say it) a better chance at a ring w/Miami.

If KG comes back, Ainge can resign our free agents for one more run.
It's a big if, but providing this roster could be healthy come playoff time (Green/Bradley), they would be a better and more complete than the team that just won the championship.
Of course I wouldn't expect the Thunder to have the deer in headlights look to them should they make it back next time around.

It's a gamble I guess, but you look at the East, with Rose being hurt, and the Knicks being the Knicks, it's wide open.
Miami is the biggest threat, and this squad plays them as well as anybody when healthy. Will they ever be collectively healthy together again is the big question.
The old guys held up their end of the bargain. It was the young guys that fucked us this year!

[faldor]

I agree about bringing Ray back for a few more years, but I don't think it'll happen.  He is still a great 3 point shooter, and by far the best they have.  Bradley is a good player, and better overall player at this point.  But he is nowhere near the shooter.  And I don't think they can get anyone through the draft or free agency who can spread the floor like Ray does.  It doesn't seem like they're all that interested in bringing him back though.  It's almost a forgone conclusion that he will be playing elsewhere next season.

I think there's a good chance he's back.
In the end it will come down to what KG decides, and how much these guys are willing to play for.
Is it worth it to them to take less money to play for Doc?
Ray could prob get more money and (hate to say it) a better chance at a ring w/Miami.

If KG comes back, Ainge can resign our free agents for one more run.
It's a big if, but providing this roster could be healthy come playoff time (Green/Bradley), they would be a better and more complete than the team that just won the championship.
Of course I wouldn't expect the Thunder to have the deer in headlights look to them should they make it back next time around.

It's a gamble I guess, but you look at the East, with Rose being hurt, and the Knicks being the Knicks, it's wide open.
Miami is the biggest threat, and this squad plays them as well as anybody when healthy. Will they ever be collectively healthy together again is the big question.
The old guys held up their end of the bargain. It was the young guys that fucked us this year!

Yeah, they were THAT close to winning it all this year, having Miami on the brink of elimination.  People have been saying for years that the Celtics need to break up the "big 3" and rebuild.  I actually believed that more 2 years ago than I do now.  At this point I think they'd be better off keeping the core as is and working around that.  Up until this year, Ray was the best conditioned veteran on the team.  This year that wasn't the case, and who knows how well he'll recover, but I still think he makes them a better team than anyone they can find to replace him, even at a reduced role.  It all matters how he, and they see it though.

Looking forward to the draft on Thursday.  I don't quite love the NBA Draft as much as I did back in the day, but it's still a fun night.  Too many foreign players that I don't know though, and young players coming out of college who have no business leaving early.

[LongGoneDay]

I agree about bringing Ray back for a few more years, but I don't think it'll happen.  He is still a great 3 point shooter, and by far the best they have.  Bradley is a good player, and better overall player at this point.  But he is nowhere near the shooter.  And I don't think they can get anyone through the draft or free agency who can spread the floor like Ray does.  It doesn't seem like they're all that interested in bringing him back though.  It's almost a forgone conclusion that he will be playing elsewhere next season.

I think there's a good chance he's back.
In the end it will come down to what KG decides, and how much these guys are willing to play for.
Is it worth it to them to take less money to play for Doc?
Ray could prob get more money and (hate to say it) a better chance at a ring w/Miami.

If KG comes back, Ainge can resign our free agents for one more run.
It's a big if, but providing this roster could be healthy come playoff time (Green/Bradley), they would be a better and more complete than the team that just won the championship.
Of course I wouldn't expect the Thunder to have the deer in headlights look to them should they make it back next time around.

It's a gamble I guess, but you look at the East, with Rose being hurt, and the Knicks being the Knicks, it's wide open.
Miami is the biggest threat, and this squad plays them as well as anybody when healthy. Will they ever be collectively healthy together again is the big question.
The old guys held up their end of the bargain. It was the young guys that fucked us this year!

Yeah, they were THAT close to winning it all this year, having Miami on the brink of elimination.  People have been saying for years that the Celtics need to break up the "big 3" and rebuild.  I actually believed that more 2 years ago than I do now.  At this point I think they'd be better off keeping the core as is and working around that.  Up until this year, Ray was the best conditioned veteran on the team.  This year that wasn't the case, and who knows how well he'll recover, but I still think he makes them a better team than anyone they can find to replace him, even at a reduced role.  It all matters how he, and they see it though.

Looking forward to the draft on Thursday.  I don't quite love the NBA Draft as much as I did back in the day, but it's still a fun night.  Too many foreign players that I don't know though, and young players coming out of college who have no business leaving early.

Yea, it's a toss up for me. I don't want to see KG, PP and Ray hang around too long and just get embarrassed by younger players, but at the same time, I'd rather watch professionals lose than watch young moron players like the Gerald Greens of the world "develop"..

I don't think they are at that point yet though. Not if the young guys can come in and contribute and keep the old guys minutes low, like the original plan was this year.
If Green and Bradley are healthy, who knows what this team is capable of.
I'd like to see one more run, especially since this years FA class is dog shit.

[AxlsMainMan]

No sooner did midnight pass today than Danny Ainge was on the phone with the free agent he is now approaching with a single-minded purpose.

Regardless of who else the Celtics eventually sign, Ainge said this morning that signing Ray Allen is ?our number one priority.?

Today was the first day the Celtics were allowed to talk with Allen, an unrestricted free agent, and Ainge made sure he was able to turn to this piece of business quickly by reaching agreement with Kevin Garnett on a two and possibly three-year contract on Saturday.

Allen has reportedly built up a long list of suitors, including Miami, Phoenix and Memphis. The Heat hopes to lure Allen with the offer of their so-called mini mid-level exception ? an amount that would start Allen at $3 million next season.

Miami is also said to be willing to offer Allen multiple years, a priority listed by Allen during a Herald interview in mid-April.

But the Celtics, with Allen?s Bird rights and, for the first time, cap space, can at least double that offer in the first year. Though they are willing to sign Garnett for three years, it?s unclear whether the Celtics would also sign Allen for more than one year.

Allen has also expressed a desire to be free of the threat of being dealt away come trade deadline time, an experience he went through each of the last two seasons, last year when the Celtics nearly dealt him to Memphis for O.J. Mayo.

But Ainge made it clear that Allen will have an important role in his plans now.

?We want Ray back, and we?re approaching this as the first thing we have to get done,? said the Celtics president of basketball operations.

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20220701ainges_call_ray_allen_is_a_priority/srvc=home&position=recent

[faldor]

I saw that earlier.  I hope they can come to terms with Ray.  I still think he can be highly effective for them, albeit at a reduced role as a 6th man.  From all previous reports, he was pretty much a goner and on his way to Miami, so it's at least nice to "hear" they're interested in retaining him.  You "hear" lots of stuff though, and only some of it turns out to be true or comes to fruition.  Great to hear KG is coming back though.  The C's should at least remain somewhat of a factor in the East as long as he's around.  Without him, they were destined to be a fringe playoff team, which is about the worst thing you can be in the NBA.