The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[Axl4Prez2004]

That vid was good...but I just saw this one on ESPN...trust me, it is hilarious!  In fact, I think D helped direct this thing. 

btw, I do believe this Finals cemented a legacy...I have to be the worst prognosticator of the 21st century!!!   

[Bodhi]

when he beat Houston they were WAYYYYYYYY over the hill. Barkley's back was so bad he was a shell of himself.

He didnt have to beat Jordan but he did play in the era of Shaq,Kobe and Tim Duncan only 3 of the 10 greatest of all time.

I think you give too much credit to this era of basketball.  It is clearly not as competitive as it was in the late 80's to late 90's, not many would argue that.  Thats also why  I don't think you can really compare era's.  Kobe might crack the Top 10, even Jordan said Kobe is probably a Top 10 guard, but not overall Top 10 player of all time.  What about Bird, Magic, Jordan, Oscar Robertson, Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Kareem, Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Jerry West, Isiah Thomas... etc thats not even listing most of the original Dream Team who is the greatest team ever assembled in any sport...There are a lot of great NBA players over the last 60 years.  Dirk is a great player, it is fair to say he is a Top 10 of his era, but not a Top 20 of all time.  Once again, he is not done, when he is, then we will see where he stands.

[LongGoneDay]

Jordan played amongst some of the greatest players to ever step on an NBA floor.
To say he played in a weak era is revisionist history at it's finest.

The Mavs were a great story this year, and I'm pumped as hell that they kept Lebron from getting the hardware, but let's not get too carried away here.
Dirk is an absolute freak, but he had help. Sure he didn't have a "superstar" sidekick. He had something better, a complete team.
Dallas is a collection of complementary players. They beat a Miami team that was really thrown together w/o a ton of thought if you ask me.
Lebron, Wade are fantastic players, and Bosh is overrated but solid. Other than that, they had to fill the roster with scrubs and leftovers, aside from Haslem who was hurt.
They did an admirable job in their first year, but if Rondo, or Derek Rose are healthy they may not have faired as well.

Durant is another freak talent, but OKC is a young team, not quite ready to contend for a title. Dallas beat a team it was supposed to.
Sweeping LA was the most impressive thing to me. I loved every second of it!

Anyways, point is, Dirk didn't beat anybody, Dallas as a team did. And no team has ever won a championship without going through other great teams and superstars.
Keeping Wade and Lebron off of the free throw line is what won the series for Dallas, and that was the ultimate team effort.

[russkwtx]

I'm going to the Mavs parade on Thursday!

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

oh yeah...


LAKERS 3 PEAT This year 


@Garry if you read this... Go ahead and tell me for the 2nd time that Lakers won't win.

Idiot.

[w.axl.rose]

oh yeah...


LAKERS 3 PEAT This year 


@Garry if you read this... Go ahead and tell me for the 2nd time that Lakers won't win.

Idiot.

haha. almost forgot that i had made that post.

[D]

NBA League Pass is ordered

for the past 5 years ive seen EVERY Dallas Mav game and this year will continue the streak!

I respect Dirk for not being a coward and chasing a ring. I'll take a 50 win season and Dallas competing fairly over the Heat's bullshit and the Lakers stealing Pau Gasol and Artest ring chasing.


I think, especially if Carmelo gets traded, we are gonna be in the West Finals.

Roddy Beaubois is unstoppable. Tyson Chandler gives us a defensive presence and he is a great floor runner. our bench is ridiculous with Terry,Marion and Chandler coming off it everynight.

well.... I predicted West Finals at least.

[D]

Oh and Dirk and Dallas totally bitchsmacked Carmelo and NY.

yeah, but im willing to bet the Knicks get a title before Dallas does.  As

long as Cuban is infatuated with soft Euro's they are never going to get it done. I hear he is interested in Rubio now, haha.  He should really take a look at Dwill next season.

HUH? WHAT? PWNT, OWNED

haha   hindsight can be a muthafucka

[Bodhi]

John Hollinger at ESPN does a decent job breaking down the best finals series/teams/performances of all time.  Check it out, there are a lot of players who didn't win titles whose performances are ranked ahead of some guys who did, proving you can't really compare eras.  For example, Karl Malone's 1998 Finals performance is ranked as the 18th best of all time, Dirk in 2011 is at #33.  Both Jazz/Bulls Series are both in the Top 5 playoff series of all time. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-1

[D]

John Hollinger at ESPN does a decent job breaking down the best finals series/teams/performances of all time.  Check it out, there are a lot of players who didn't win titles whose performances are ranked ahead of some guys who did, proving you can't really compare eras.  For example, Karl Malone's 1998 Finals performance is ranked as the 18th best of all time, Dirk in 2011 is at #33.  Both Jazz/Bulls Series are both in the Top 5 playoff series of all time. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-1

i hate those stats

Difference is, Dirk made the plays in the final 5mins.. Karl didn't.

[Bodhi]

John Hollinger at ESPN does a decent job breaking down the best finals series/teams/performances of all time.  Check it out, there are a lot of players who didn't win titles whose performances are ranked ahead of some guys who did, proving you can't really compare eras.  For example, Karl Malone's 1998 Finals performance is ranked as the 18th best of all time, Dirk in 2011 is at #33.  Both Jazz/Bulls Series are both in the Top 5 playoff series of all time. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-1

i hate those stats

Difference is, Dirk made the plays in the final 5mins.. Karl didn't.

yes, thats a weak arguemtn though because  Dirk did not make any plays against Michael Jordan's Bulls that's why its hard to  compare eras.  Barkley and Malone were both better than Tim Duncan, but because of Duncan's rings he get's ranked ahead of them.  Not really fair considering the scrub teams that Duncan beat to get those rings.  The best team Duncan beat was that Pistons team who even though they won a title werent a pimple on the 90's Bulls asses.  Malone had a much better series in 1998 against a FAR superior team than Miami, the writer said himself that Karls performance would have won the title against any other team, and he made plenty of clutch plays in those finals against the Bulls as did Stockton, Jordan just made more.  Thats why lists like this are good because it takes into account WHO these players made these plays against.  A title in 1996 is not the same as a title in 2003. 

Hollinger's lists are always good because he breaks down the stats(something D usually loves unless they are not favorable for Dirk  )

[LongGoneDay]

I hear you that it's tough to compare eras, but Duncan may very well be the greatest PF to play the game.
Hard case to make Barkley or Malone being better, though it's a good discussion.
Duncan was superior to both on the defensive end.
He is the single biggest reason Spurs have the highest winning percentage of any team in the 4 major sports since he came into the NBA.
Backbone of a dynasty. He elevated his game in the biggest moments.
3 time Finals MVP. Had to go through Shaq's Lakers to get to the Finals in '03. They were no scrubs.
Who knows how many other opportunities he would have had if he wasnt so injury prone.

[Bodhi]

I hear you that it's tough to compare eras, but Duncan may very well be the greatest PF to play the game.
Hard case to make Barkley or Malone being better, though it's a good discussion.
Duncan was superior to both on the defensive end.
He is the single biggest reason Spurs have the highest winning percentage of any team in the 4 major sports since he came into the NBA.
Backbone of a dynasty. He elevated his game in the biggest moments.
3 time Finals MVP. Had to go through Shaq's Lakers to get to the Finals in '03. They were no scrubs.
Who knows how many other opportunities he would have had if he wasnt so injury prone.

yeah but he went to a LOADED Spurs team when he got drafted.  They were perennial 50-60 game winners every season but happened to get lucky and all get hurt one season, and win the draft and get Duncan.  He had David Robinson for the first 6 years of his career, as well as a great supporting cast.  Both the Spurs and Duncan stepped in shit.  Karl Malone also outplayed him both times they met in the playoffs, once in 1998 the year before the Spurs won the title and he kept him in check in 2004 when he was 40 years old and injured.  Malone and Barkley were freaks of nature.  Also Duncan never went got past the Lakers when they were "on."  The Lakers didn't beat them they manhandled them every year in the playoffs except for 2003, one of their off years.  Malone and Barkley weren't fortunate enough to play the New Jersey Nets, Ewingless Knicks or the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Finals.

im not taking anything away from Duncan, he is a great player and definitely in the best PF of all time discussion even though he is a Center.  I just don't think he is as good as those other guys.

[LongGoneDay]

Trust me, I painfully remember the circumstances, because I was hoping he was heading to my Celtics!

Spurs swept LA in '98-99.
Duncan played great, but got no help in '02.
Played great and beat LA in '03.
Hit the potential game winner in game 5 that would have given them 3-2 lead, until Fisher hit the amazing, but total bullshit impossible fadeaway inbounded pass with .4 seconds on the clock.

Duncan came into the league a winner. Tough to downplay a 4x World Champion and 3x Finals MVP.
Charles and Malone were no doubt freaks, but I'm not gonna hold it against Duncan for being born later.
Like I said, I think it's a good discussion. Could make the case for all 3, along with Mchale.
Great players would have success in any era. Tim is no exception.

[gnr-4-ever]

I'm really hoping AI makes a comeback next season, if there is a next season.

The NBA just isn't the same without him. Either a bench role or something similar, just let him play.

[Bodhi]

Speaking of comparing different era's and all that, it might be fun to speculate on who will make the All-Time 75 list 12 years from now. They did the 50 in 1997, who do you think is going to get added to the list when the NBA turns 75.  You can include players that are definitely going to make it and young ones who you think have the potential... I put my definite makes in bold, and the rest are on the cusp or too young to tell for sure but should be in the discussion.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Lebron James
5. Dirk Nowitski
6. Jason Kidd
7. Steve Nash
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Ray Allen
10. Paul Pierce
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Allen Iverson
13. Reggie Miller
14. Gary Payton
15. Alonzo Mourning
16 Deron Williams
17. Chris Paul
18. Derrick Rose
19. Dwight Howard
20. Amare Stoudemire
21. Kevin Durant
22. Tony Parker
23. Dennis Rodman
24. Blake Griffin
25. Chauncey Billups

[gilee7]

Even Charles Barkley acknowledges that Tim Duncan is the greatest PF of all time.

[Bodhi]

Even Charles Barkley acknowledges that Tim Duncan is the greatest PF of all time.

career stats:
Duncan: 21. 8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 3.2 apg, 50.9 fg%
Malone: 25.0 ppg, 10.1 rpg, .70 bpg, 3.6 apg, 51. 6 fg%


those are the stats with Karl Malone declining in the early 2000's and being the 3rd option that one Laker year.  Duncans numbers will go down in a few years as well.

Malone has better numbers in a way tougher era, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Pippen, Isiah, Barkley, Olajuwon, Ewing, and tons more.  The 4 ring argument is nice, but the Jazz would have manhandled any of those teams Duncan beat.   Oh yeah, plus Duncan is a center.

I'm not saying Duncan sucks, he is a Top 3 power forward, but its not like he is the clear best of all-time.  Also, he is a center.

[LongGoneDay]

It's more than a nice argument, it's the reason these guys play(well the money probably has something to do with it).
The fact of the matter is Duncan has four rings and Barkley and Malone have none. You can say that they would have man handled Duncan's competition, and I may very well agree with you, but it's still playing make believe. You have to play the games. You may remember how Dallas didn't belong on the same floor as Lebron and Wade, or how just about every "expert" picked Lakers over Boston in '08.
Bruins didn't stand a chance vs Vancouver etc. Duncan is going to retire with 4 rings and 3 Finals MVPs at the very least. You don't stumble into those awards.

One thing Malone has over Duncan that can't be denied is durability. Duncan's best days are clearly behind him.
Then again, the experts have been pronouncing the Spurs dead for years now..

[Bodhi]

I know its the reason these guys play, but if Tim Duncan played worse teams than Malone how is it a fair comparison?  It would be one thing if he was like Mcgrady and never got out of the first round, But Malone took teams on his back to the Finals to play the greatest player of all time.  His 1998 Finals performance which was a loss is ranked ahead of many performances that were wins.  That's why the Hollinger list a page up or so is pretty good because championships are only part of the equation. I think it is only fair to base players on their era.  For instance, Karl Malone is the best PF of the 90's, Duncan is the best of the 00's.  The NBA was completely different in those 2 decades, so it makes no sense to compare the two.  Malone is also 2-0 against Duncan in the post season.