The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[D]

WOWWWWW

what an out of this world comeback

i can't believe it

[tim_m]

WOWWWWW

what an out of this world comeback

i can't believe it

I'm still in shock. They can't continue to do this though. They aren't going to comeback like that every time.

[faldor]

Lebron James is everything that is wrong with the NBA. 

Really?  I don't get this... Here's a guy who plays some of the best TEAM basketball in the sport and he's considered "everything that's wrong with the NBA."   No scandals, no rape cases, no divorces, no drunk driving... he will gladly pass the ball for the final shot if someone is open (ex. Donyell Marshall).  Really, the only thing he's done wrong was "The Decision", but who cares if you aren't a Cleveland fan?  He earned free agency, who is anyone to criticize where someone chooses to live and work.  Not to mention that the Cavs dropped from first to worst - the incentive was to stay and play alongside Mo Williams?

...... and come on, it's not like Wade was one of his rivals, I don't recall them ever meeting in a playoff series?  This isn't like Lebron joining the Celtics or whatever the other legends (i.e. MJ, Magic) were saying about him joining forces with "the guy to beat".  He sacrified more money from Cleveland for a lesser role in Miami - all 3 of them did actually.  The opposite of what everyone else in the league does, which is once the team gets success, they demand MORE attention, money, credit, fame, etc. (Marion and Amare in Phoenix are prime examples).  Furthermore, the consolidation of stars just made the playoffs that much better.  It made the regular season matter.  Honestly, we don't need 30 teams, each with a superstar and 14 shitty role players - teams like Miami, LA or Boston are way more exciting to watch (whether you love them or love to hate them). 

Lebron is far from what's "wrong with the NBA".  Dirk's title will only mean more because he choked the time before, not because he stayed with the same team.

You have a truly warped sense of basketball and competitive sports in general.  So because Lebron has no scandals, rape cases, divorces that is supposed to be an accomplishment?  That's not an accomplishment!! Thats the way you are supposed to live your life!! Lebron didn't sacrifice nearly as much money as you think he did, there is no income tax in Florida.  The consolidation of stars is fucking terrible for the NBA.  If you can't beat em, join em?  That's a good competitive mentality?  Thats good for the game of basketball?  A bunch of stars join one team and automatically win the title?  How is that good?

I love the argument that Lebron earned the right to play wherever he wants and that if we have a problem with that something is wrong with us.  I have no problem with Lebron earning the right of free agency.  That is such a distraction when people use that argument.  HERE is the problem.

LEBRON HAS NO BALLS.  He couldn't get it done in Cleveland, so instead of sticking to his word and trying to win a championship and finish a job he started, he RAN. That is my problem with him.  He is not a competitor.  Anyone can gang up with their friends on one team and win a championship.    I'm supposed to be impressed if the Heat win this title? 

I love the argument that Jordan had great teams too, of course he did, all championship teams are great.  But they were built the proper way, through the draft, and some free agency.  They didn't have stars texting each other to join forces, they used to be rivals who wanted to beat the competition, not join it.

I have no problem with Lebron up and leaving Cleveland to play with 2 other All Stars in Miami.  What I have a problem with, was how he handled the whole situation.  "The Decision" was a complete joke.  It couldn't have unfolded any worse.  I just hope Dallas can take the title this time around.  It seems obvious to me that this Miami squad will win multiple championships.  They've improved so much throughout this season.  Lebron has played his ass off in the playoffs, he's really impressed me.  So I've resigned to the fact that they're not going to "fail" in Miami.  I just don't want them to win THIS year.  Go Mavs!

[Bodhi]

Dirk hitting the game winner with his injured left hand...inspirational.  THAT is what competitive sports is all about.

[pilferk]

Jordan not only had more heart and will he was a great leader and motivator. He had the ability like Messier and Gretzky to make those around him better. Without Jordan does anyone really think those bulls teams win 6 titles? I don't; LeBron on the other hand feels the need to surround himself with a dream team to win it all.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...hold on a second.

Look back at who was on those Jordan led Bulls.  Scottie Pippen?  Tony Kukoc? John Paxton? Dennis Rodman? Horace Grant?  He might not have had a "big 3" the entire time, but his supporting cast was not chopped liver.  It was not "Jordan and a bunch of scrubs".  In fact, I'd say top to bottom those Bulls teams had a better overall roster than the Heat do, today.

I'm not saying they were, those were some very very good players but without Jordan i still am not sure they win it all.

But that's definitely true of this Heat team.  I don't think they're in the finals without Lebron.  Now...the question is...can they win it all.

[pilferk]

I love the argument that Jordan had great teams too, of course he did, all championship teams are great.  But they were built the proper way, through the draft, and some free agency.  They didn't have stars texting each other to join forces, they used to be rivals who wanted to beat the competition, not join it.

One quick point on an earlier statement that I didn't quote:

I don't think the point was that because Lebron has been "clean", it's an accomplishment.  I think the point the earlier poster was making was that...he's "clean" so it's tough to point at him and say he's all that's wrong with the NBA.

On to my point:

The later Jordan teams had plenty of "former rivals" (Rodman, for example) on them.

If you take issue with the Heat, then do you take issue with teams like the 80's Lakers?  Or the current crop of the Boston Celtics (because, although Allen and KG were gotten through trades....it WAS a similar situation). Or a whole host of other teams who got 3 good players together at the same time, by using free agency (or potential free agent based trades)?  The biggest difference is that CLEVELAND decided to hold Lebron during the final year of his contract and not deal him.

If you don't take issue with those teams...then I'm guessing the issue is that this was, at least in part, coordinated by the players...rather than the teams front office.  For me, that's quibbling.  SOMEONE puts together these teams. GM, owner, and in the Heat's case, some of the players.  I don't see a good reason to differentiate.

LeBron was a free agent.  I'm with everyone who thinks he handled it incredibly poorly, from start to finish.  "The Decision" had to be the stupidest fucking thing he could have done.  We're 100% in agreement on that.

But as for the rest....I can't fault him.  He earned free agency.  He earned the right to take what he considered to be the best deal, and he negotiated that deal for himself.  Yes, part of that negotiation was to get Bosch to head with him to Miami.  Wade was already there (just like, on many teams, he would have walked into an existing star already on the team).  I just don't have a problem with any of that.  People say he "owed" Cleveland.  Baloney.  He owes it to whatever legacy/career he puts together to try to win rings.  Because without rings, he's never going to be measured against the "immortals".  Cleveland wasn't going to put together a team, around him, that could win rings.  The owner had said as much, and the proof was in the pudding.  I have no problem with Lebron doing what the system allows, and is set up to allow, players to do.

Today is not the 80's NBA.  It's not 80's MLB or 80's NHL, either.  "Rivalries" are not, amongst the players, what they were back then.  I'll agree with that, too.  But that's not the players fault.  I'm not sure it's anyone's fault.  Players have morphed more into a "fraternity"....between the lines they're competitors, outside the lines they're all friends.  There isn't the kind of personal animosity or rivalry that there used to be.  It's hard for me to hold Lebron to that standard when the standard sort of disappeared during the 90's.

[pilferk]

]I have no problem with Lebron up and leaving Cleveland to play with 2 other All Stars in Miami.  What I have a problem with, was how he handled the whole situation.  "The Decision" was a complete joke.  It couldn't have unfolded any worse.  I just hope Dallas can take the title this time around.  It seems obvious to me that this Miami squad will win multiple championships.  They've improved so much throughout this season.  Lebron has played his ass off in the playoffs, he's really impressed me.  So I've resigned to the fact that they're not going to "fail" in Miami.  I just don't want them to win THIS year.  Go Mavs!

On that, we agree.  I'm not a Heat fan, by any stretch.  And I think the WAY Lebron left Cleveland was horrid.

[Bodhi]

]I have no problem with Lebron up and leaving Cleveland to play with 2 other All Stars in Miami.  What I have a problem with, was how he handled the whole situation.  "The Decision" was a complete joke.  It couldn't have unfolded any worse.  I just hope Dallas can take the title this time around.  It seems obvious to me that this Miami squad will win multiple championships.  They've improved so much throughout this season.  Lebron has played his ass off in the playoffs, he's really impressed me.  So I've resigned to the fact that they're not going to "fail" in Miami.  I just don't want them to win THIS year.  Go Mavs!

On that, we agree.  I'm not a Heat fan, by any stretch.  And I think the WAY Lebron left Cleveland was horrid.

I see both of your sides of it and I don't completely disagree.  My real gripe is about Lebron James competitiveness, and you're right its not just him, it is the direction the whole NBA and most pro sports has gone.  I miss the rivalries, I hate when a team gets knocked out of the playoffs and they are sitting around laughing and hugging with the team that just beat them.  I respect a player that sticks with one team for most of their career.  I also did take issue with the Boston Celtics title, as impressive as it was, deep down how can Kevin Garnett be as satisfied with that title as he would have if he finally brought one to Minnesota?  I know I wouldn't be.

John Stockton and Karl Malone routinely turned down more money from major market teams to try and finish a job in Utah.  People kiss Lebrons ass for allegedly turning down money, but with his endorsements and no state income tax in Florida is he even going to feel any of that money he "gave up"?  Of course not.  Stockton didn't have any of the type of endorsements Lebron had but he turned down numerous big offers to take way less money for the Jazz, in exchange for ice time for his kids hockey team at the Jazz arena.  I miss players like that.

It's a slippery slope, you had the big 3 do what they did in Miami last summer, now this year you had Carmelo Anthony just decide hes not playing for the Nuggets anymore and wants to play for the Knicks so the Nuggets are forced to make a deal.  It's lunacy.  It is the exact reason why the NBA needs a real salary cap, and a franchise tag.


I just don't feel like the current NBA stucture is good for competition.  How is it?  When 3 very good players decide they are going to gang up and they win a title automatically.  How can any player with any type of pride or self worth feel proud of that?  Lebron can win 6 titles in Miami and it still wont impress me as much as if Dirk gets 1 this year.  Anybody can just join forces with other great players and win titles, where is the accomplishment?  I will take Stockton and Malone leading the Jazz to the Finals in 97 and 98 and shaking the hell out of the champs of the world and falling short over any amount of titles Lebron wins.  That's just me though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 Yes Malone went to the Lakers, but he was 40, Stockton retired and the Jazz wanted to go young and rebuild, that was a mutual parting of the ways.  He gave them 18 years, can't ask for more than that.

[LongGoneDay]

]I have no problem with Lebron up and leaving Cleveland to play with 2 other All Stars in Miami.  What I have a problem with, was how he handled the whole situation.  "The Decision" was a complete joke.  It couldn't have unfolded any worse.  I just hope Dallas can take the title this time around.  It seems obvious to me that this Miami squad will win multiple championships.  They've improved so much throughout this season.  Lebron has played his ass off in the playoffs, he's really impressed me.  So I've resigned to the fact that they're not going to "fail" in Miami.  I just don't want them to win THIS year.  Go Mavs!

On that, we agree.  I'm not a Heat fan, by any stretch.  And I think the WAY Lebron left Cleveland was horrid.

I see both of your sides of it and I don't completely disagree.  My real gripe is about Lebron James competitiveness, and you're right its not just him, it is the direction the whole NBA and most pro sports has gone.  I miss the rivalries, I hate when a team gets knocked out of the playoffs and they are sitting around laughing and hugging with the team that just beat them.  I respect a player that sticks with one team for most of their career.  I also did take issue with the Boston Celtics title, as impressive as it was, deep down how can Kevin Garnett be as satisfied with that title as he would have if he finally brought one to Minnesota?  I know I wouldn't be.

John Stockton and Karl Malone routinely turned down more money from major market teams to try and finish a job in Utah.  People kiss Lebrons ass for allegedly turning down money, but with his endorsements and no state income tax in Florida is he even going to feel any of that money he "gave up"?  Of course not.  Stockton didn't have any of the type of endorsements Lebron had but he turned down numerous big offers to take way less money for the Jazz, in exchange for ice time for his kids hockey team at the Jazz arena.  I miss players like that.

It's a slippery slope, you had the big 3 do what they did in Miami last summer, now this year you had Carmelo Anthony just decide hes not playing for the Nuggets anymore and wants to play for the Knicks so the Nuggets are forced to make a deal.  It's lunacy.  It is the exact reason why the NBA needs a real salary cap, and a franchise tag.


I just don't feel like the current NBA stucture is good for competition.  How is it?  When 3 very good players decide they are going to gang up and they win a title automatically.  How can any player with any type of pride or self worth feel proud of that?  Lebron can win 6 titles in Miami and it still wont impress me as much as if Dirk gets 1 this year.  Anybody can just join forces with other great players and win titles, where is the accomplishment?  I will take Stockton and Malone leading the Jazz to the Finals in 97 and 98 and shaking the hell out of the champs of the world and falling short over any amount of titles Lebron wins.  That's just me though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 Yes Malone went to the Lakers, but he was 40, Stockton retired and the Jazz wanted to go young and rebuild, that was a mutual parting of the ways.  He gave them 18 years, can't ask for more than that.

Lebron and KG's situations were totally different, though.
The most obvious difference being that's KG's was via trade, which he had originally resisted, and doesn't have total control like Lebron did. Sure he could have put up a fight, but he had given 14 years or whatever it was, and if a team is trying to get rid of you, why would you fight them to stay? Minnesota was looking to get something for KG while he still had value. Looking back, the trade was pretty lopsided, but both sides did benefit.

Lebron gave Cleveland no indication he was leaving, and essentially crippled the organization that gave him his start, and hometown.
I don't have a problem with him leaving, though it really can't be denied he took the easy way out, and couldn't have handled it any worse. I give him a pass, because as good as he is at basketball, it's pretty clear there isn't much going on upstairs.

Plus C's had to endure years of futility to build up young talent through the draft and then trade away their future in order to acquire Allen and KG. It's a gamble I'd pull the trigger on 1,000 times over, but still a gamble.

Lebron saw an opportunity to win now, going to a team where he isn't necessarily even the best player on the team. It's not all on his shoulders now if he wins or loses anymore. He took the easy way out, no doubt about that.

NBA could be in trouble if the trend continues. Melo forcing his way to NY. Chris Paul reportedly was trying to do the same.
There were rumors Howard would join LA or Boston when his contract is up, though at least he intends to play it out.
Pretty soon it could be 4 teams worth watching.

One thing I love about this current Boston squad, is that they do seem old school in the way they legitimately hate their competition.

[Bodhi]

Lebron and KG's situations were totally different, though.
The most obvious difference being that's KG's was via trade, which he had originally resisted, and doesn't have total control like Lebron did. Sure he could have put up a fight, but he had given 14 years or whatever it was, and if a team is trying to get rid of you, why would you fight them to stay? Minnesota was looking to get something for KG while he still had value. Looking back, the trade was pretty lopsided, but both sides did benefit.

Lebron gave Cleveland no indication he was leaving, and essentially crippled the organization that gave him his start, and hometown.
I don't have a problem with him leaving, though it really can't be denied he took the easy way out, and couldn't have handled it any worse. I give him a pass, because as good as he is at basketball, it's pretty clear there isn't much going on upstairs.

Plus C's had to endure years of futility to build up young talent through the draft and then trade away their future in order to acquire Allen and KG. It's a gamble I'd pull the trigger on 1,000 times over, but still a gamble.

Lebron saw an opportunity to win now, going to a team where he isn't necessarily even the best player on the team. It's not all on his shoulders now if he wins or loses anymore. He took the easy way out, no doubt about that.

NBA could be in trouble if the trend continues. Melo forcing his way to NY. Chris Paul reportedly was trying to do the same.
There were rumors Howard would join LA or Boston when his contract is up, though at least he intends to play it out.
Pretty soon it could be 4 teams worth watching.

One thing I love about this current Boston squad, is that they do seem old school in the way they legitimately hate their competition.

I totally agree.  I didn't mean to make it sound like KG's situation was similar other than it was all-stars ganging up together.  The Celtics did it the right way, and Garnett doesnt owe Minnesota anything.  I was saying from a competitive point of view, a Minnesota title would have been much more fulfilling, at least if I were him.  But that's me.

[LongGoneDay]

I'm glad he did it here, and helped end our misery, especially after that '07 season haha, but yeah I agree, getting Minny over the hump would have been incredible. Then he probably would have retired with the team he started with, which is a rarity these days..

[tim_m]

Dirk hitting the game winner with his injured left hand...inspirational.  THAT is what competitive sports is all about.

Its called having the heart of a champion and being a leader. Something LeBron isn't. They looked lost the last 6 minutes of the game. If LeBron was a real leader he would have known to ride the hot shooter. In this case Wade. He was hot all game in the end LeBron didn't give him the ball. On the other side at the end Dallas Nowitzki repeatedly got it to Terry and Marion who were hot and of course Dirk himself got the biggest shots.

[D]

I will always respect Dirk more title or not for sticking with Dallas and trying to finish what he started.


Lakers are WAYYYYYYYY different. Magic got drafted to LA. big difference. Magic also won a title scoring 42pts grabbing double digit rebounds playing CENTER when Kareem was injured.


The comparison would be bird going to LA and playing with Magic.

Lebron and Wade are 2 of the 3 best in the league right now. Lebron could've left and went to Chicago.. Rose wasn't the MVP Rose yet so Lebronwould've been the undisputed leader of that team and got the lion's share of the credit

Instead he looks like a coward.


Its his right.. If he wins titles, great.. but he will never get the same credit or have the same legacy as if he had done it another way. throw in Lebron quitting against Boston last year.

[D]

My definitive Dirk article: Excuse some grammar/punctuation errors.. too much texting and twitter since school


http://simplysports.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=opinion&action=display&thread=54

[faldor]

Lebron and KG's situations were totally different, though.
The most obvious difference being that's KG's was via trade, which he had originally resisted, and doesn't have total control like Lebron did. Sure he could have put up a fight, but he had given 14 years or whatever it was, and if a team is trying to get rid of you, why would you fight them to stay? Minnesota was looking to get something for KG while he still had value. Looking back, the trade was pretty lopsided, but both sides did benefit.

Lebron gave Cleveland no indication he was leaving, and essentially crippled the organization that gave him his start, and hometown.
I don't have a problem with him leaving, though it really can't be denied he took the easy way out, and couldn't have handled it any worse. I give him a pass, because as good as he is at basketball, it's pretty clear there isn't much going on upstairs.

Plus C's had to endure years of futility to build up young talent through the draft and then trade away their future in order to acquire Allen and KG. It's a gamble I'd pull the trigger on 1,000 times over, but still a gamble.

Lebron saw an opportunity to win now, going to a team where he isn't necessarily even the best player on the team. It's not all on his shoulders now if he wins or loses anymore. He took the easy way out, no doubt about that.

NBA could be in trouble if the trend continues. Melo forcing his way to NY. Chris Paul reportedly was trying to do the same.
There were rumors Howard would join LA or Boston when his contract is up, though at least he intends to play it out.
Pretty soon it could be 4 teams worth watching.

One thing I love about this current Boston squad, is that they do seem old school in the way they legitimately hate their competition.

I totally agree.  I didn't mean to make it sound like KG's situation was similar other than it was all-stars ganging up together.  The Celtics did it the right way, and Garnett doesnt owe Minnesota anything.  I was saying from a competitive point of view, a Minnesota title would have been much more fulfilling, at least if I were him.  But that's me.

Unfortunately, that's the way the NBA has been for a long time now.  I heard a stat not long ago about the number of franchises to win titles in the major sports. 

Since 1980, there have been 8 different NBA champions (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Heat). 

The NFL has had 15 different Super Bowl champs during the same time frame (Steelers, Raiders, Niners, Redskins, Bears, Giants, Cowboys, Packers, Broncos, Rams, Ravens, Patriots, Buccaneers, Colts, Saints). 

MLB has had 19 different World Series champs (Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, Orioles, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Twins, A's, Reds, Blue Jays, Braves, Yankees, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, Red Sox, White Sox, Giants).

NHL has had 14 different Stanley Cup champs (Islanders, Oilers, Canadiens, Flames, Penguins, Rangers, Devils, Avalanche, Red Wings, Stars, Lightning, Hurricanes, Ducks, Blackhawks).

So that points out how uneven the competitive balance has been in the NBA for some time.  It's nothing new really.  Players are just getting more involved in the process now and choosing where to go, but it's never been an even playing field.  The rich continue to get richer.  People bitch all the time about the Yankees (and Red Sox to a lesser extent) buying championships.  But it's clear that you have a much better chance at competing in baseball than you do in the NBA.  How else can you explain the Marlins winning 2 World Series titles amongst a bunch of losing seasons in comparison to the Clippers annual trip to the draft lottery?

[Bodhi]

Lebron and KG's situations were totally different, though.
The most obvious difference being that's KG's was via trade, which he had originally resisted, and doesn't have total control like Lebron did. Sure he could have put up a fight, but he had given 14 years or whatever it was, and if a team is trying to get rid of you, why would you fight them to stay? Minnesota was looking to get something for KG while he still had value. Looking back, the trade was pretty lopsided, but both sides did benefit.

Lebron gave Cleveland no indication he was leaving, and essentially crippled the organization that gave him his start, and hometown.
I don't have a problem with him leaving, though it really can't be denied he took the easy way out, and couldn't have handled it any worse. I give him a pass, because as good as he is at basketball, it's pretty clear there isn't much going on upstairs.

Plus C's had to endure years of futility to build up young talent through the draft and then trade away their future in order to acquire Allen and KG. It's a gamble I'd pull the trigger on 1,000 times over, but still a gamble.

Lebron saw an opportunity to win now, going to a team where he isn't necessarily even the best player on the team. It's not all on his shoulders now if he wins or loses anymore. He took the easy way out, no doubt about that.

NBA could be in trouble if the trend continues. Melo forcing his way to NY. Chris Paul reportedly was trying to do the same.
There were rumors Howard would join LA or Boston when his contract is up, though at least he intends to play it out.
Pretty soon it could be 4 teams worth watching.

One thing I love about this current Boston squad, is that they do seem old school in the way they legitimately hate their competition.

I totally agree.  I didn't mean to make it sound like KG's situation was similar other than it was all-stars ganging up together.  The Celtics did it the right way, and Garnett doesnt owe Minnesota anything.  I was saying from a competitive point of view, a Minnesota title would have been much more fulfilling, at least if I were him.  But that's me.

Unfortunately, that's the way the NBA has been for a long time now.  I heard a stat not long ago about the number of franchises to win titles in the major sports. 

Since 1980, there have been 8 different NBA champions (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Heat). 

The NFL has had 15 different Super Bowl champs during the same time frame (Steelers, Raiders, Niners, Redskins, Bears, Giants, Cowboys, Packers, Broncos, Rams, Ravens, Patriots, Buccaneers, Colts, Saints). 

MLB has had 19 different World Series champs (Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, Orioles, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Twins, A's, Reds, Blue Jays, Braves, Yankees, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, Red Sox, White Sox, Giants).

NHL has had 14 different Stanley Cup champs (Islanders, Oilers, Canadiens, Flames, Penguins, Rangers, Devils, Avalanche, Red Wings, Stars, Lightning, Hurricanes, Ducks, Blackhawks).

So that points out how uneven the competitive balance has been in the NBA for some time.  It's nothing new really.  Players are just getting more involved in the process now and choosing where to go, but it's never been an even playing field.  The rich continue to get richer.  People bitch all the time about the Yankees (and Red Sox to a lesser extent) buying championships.  But it's clear that you have a much better chance at competing in baseball than you do in the NBA.  How else can you explain the Marlins winning 2 World Series titles amongst a bunch of losing seasons in comparison to the Clippers annual trip to the draft lottery?

yeah the more players you have to rely on the more even the playing field.  Football  is very competitive because you are relying on 50 something guys, basketball its really all about a handful of players you have.  So if you get a few great players you can win a title immediately,(Celtics, soon to be Heat possibly)  It is also best of 7, football if you have an off day you are screwed.  In the NBA a great team is going to have to have 4 off days, that never happens.  The best team always wins the title in the NBA.

[faldor]

True, in basketball you only really need a few GREAT players and you're all set.  So if you luck out in the draft, free agency, or via trades, you should be a contender for years to come.  It just shows you though, how hard it is to build a winner.  Think of the perennial lottery teams who never rise to the top. 

I'm a bit surprised by the highest number of different champions being in baseball though.  With no salary cap, you'd think the large market teams would own a majority of the championships.  Not so though.  True, they're pretty much guaranteed to contend each season, but winning it all is far from certain.  And as you said, with the Super Bowl being just one game, anything can happen.  And I know that all too well, with the 2007 Patriots.     

[pilferk]

I will always respect Dirk more title or not for sticking with Dallas and trying to finish what he started.


Lakers are WAYYYYYYYY different. Magic got drafted to LA. big difference. Magic also won a title scoring 42pts grabbing double digit rebounds playing CENTER when Kareem was injured.

And D-wade was drafted by the Heat.

But Kareem wasn't drafted by the Lakers. Neither was Byron Scott.

And Worthy was drafted by the Lakers...but only after they traded the farm (and there was some shadiness to that deal) to get the first pick.

The comparison would be bird going to LA and playing with Magic.

Lebron and Wade are 2 of the 3 best in the league right now. Lebron could've left and went to Chicago.. Rose wasn't the MVP Rose yet so Lebron would've been the undisputed leader of that team and got the lion's share of the credit

Instead he looks like a coward.

In the league?  They're 2 of the best..but not 2 of the best 3.  Kobe, Lebron, and Rose would be the top 3, IMHO.  Wade would be 5, maybe 6 on that list.  Elite player, to be sure.  And made even better by having Lebron on the court with him.

I get the magic/bird comparison...but it's a drastic one for the purpose of hyperbole.  They chose to stay with their respective teams (hell, they made a RULE to keep Bird with Boston).  There's TONS of players who have (with the exception of the "how"...with the players largely coordinating it)  moved on to create a powerhouse team.

You can project on Lebron all you want, but the fact is: He simply became a FA and chose the team he thought could best get him what he wanted.  And it wasn't money.  It's what pretty much every FA does.  The thing is:  The NBA doesn't end up with a ton of high profile, big name  FA.  Teams tend to trade them, and they sign extensions with their new team as part of that trade. Cleveland chose not to do that (and yes, Lebron may have been part of that decision).

The WAY Lebron did it was awful, I agree.  The whole "The Decision" thing was the worst thought out PR move in history...well, maybe second behind "New Coke".

Its his right.. If he wins titles, great.. but he will never get the same credit or have the same legacy as if he had done it another way. throw in Lebron quitting against Boston last year.

From the fans?  Maybe.

But history has a fickle memory.  If he rattles off 5 or 6 titles with a few MVPs (league and Finals...though he's probably not going to get the Finals MVP this year)....history is going to give him just as much credit as it will get Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Magic...etc.  In 20 years, this won't even be remembered.

[LongGoneDay]

I would take Wade over Kobe in a heartbeat today. I think Wade has always been underrated, and maybe now more than ever. If the Heat win the title this year, Wade will be Finals MVP, not Lebron. Lebron is a freak of a player, but Wade doesn't disappear in big games. He has already won a ring with a much less talented Heat roster.

Lebron had the ball in his hands the majority of the 4th quarter in game 2, hence the monumental collapse. He tried to run out the clock, and then hoist up fade away 3 pointers with the shot clock winding down. Wade had the hot hand, 36 points already with 7 minutes remaining. Wade is a smarter player, a much better closer. Lebron has to realize this and either get him the ball, or attack the rim. He has the tools, but not sure he has the smarts/instincts to be the leagues best.

[Bodhi]

I would take Wade over Kobe in a heartbeat today. I think Wade has always been underrated, and maybe now more than ever. If the Heat win the title this year, Wade will be Finals MVP, not Lebron. Lebron is a freak of a player, but Wade doesn't disappear in big games. He has already won a ring with a much less talented Heat roster.

Lebron had the ball in his hands the majority of the 4th quarter in game 2, hence the monumental collapse. He tried to run out the clock, and then hoist up fade away 3 pointers with the shot clock winding down. Wade had the hot hand, 36 points already with 7 minutes remaining. Wade is a smarter player, a much better closer. Lebron has to realize this and either get him the ball, or attack the rim. He has the tools, but not sure he has the smarts/instincts to be the leagues best.

yeah Lebron nearly cost them the game last night too, stupid turnovers and missed a big shot with 5 seconds left that would have clinched it.  Yes we are all nitpicking with Lebron now, but he brought it on himself.

Yes I totally understand that Lebron went "by the book" and was entitled to switch teams etc... But there are some unwritten rules about integrity and competitiveness and he pissed all over those, as many other players do today.