The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[faldor]

I hate them both, but I think Kobe is still the best player in the NBA.  I have little faith in Lebron taking and hitting big shots.  I have seen Kobe do it to my Celtics time and again over the years.  Lebron is obviously younger and could take it to that level someday, but he's not there yet.  Not as far as I'm concerned.

And speaking of my Celtics.  God they're struggling heading to the finish line AGAIN.  Did the same thing last year and then made that improbable run to the finals.  So I can't get TOO worried just yet.  But this year it seems like the risky trade they made may have really messed up team unity.  Trying to get all these new guys mixed in is proving much more difficult than I could've imagined.  Plus without the O'Neal's, they have no legit post presence.  And if we have to rely on those 2 guys to be the "answer", that's a scary proposition.  The Bulls look damn strong anyway, so it might not matter.  I knew Lebron should've gone to Chicago.  They're better, and younger than the Heat.

[D]

I will disagree with anyone who says Carmelo Anthony is a great player.

He is a great "Scorer" but he isn't a great basketball player.

Guy has little impact on a team, stops the ball, hogs the ball, plays zero defense, makes noone better.

I think i called him Vince Carter

[Eazy E]

Here's a better article that looks at the last 5 minutes of "crunch time" comparing Bron & Kobe... while I wouldn't trust James to hit a buzzer beater, this article suggests that having Kobe on the floor makes it MORE likely that you will need a last second shot.  I don't doubt it after I've seen some of the horrible shots this guy jacks up over double or triple coverage towards the end of close games:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/columns/story?columnist=haberstroh_tom&page=KobeLeBronclutch-101222

The team context

So the question then becomes: Is James selfishly piling up stats at the expense of his team's success?

It appears to be the opposite.

James' teams have outscored opponents by 126 points in his 228 minutes of clutch play, debunking the theory that James is merely a compiler of empty stats; his individual play has coincided with winning basketball. Bryant is another story. Even with far superior teammates than James' former Cavs crew, Bryant has posted a minus-13 plus-minus in his 224 minutes of clutch situations. That is to say, the Lakers have, quite shockingly, been a losing team with Bryant on the floor down the stretch over the past two seasons.

This is a critical point. Boiling down clutch performance to six last-second shots is an extremely narrow view of the game. The circumstance happens so rarely that it is virtually a trivial exercise in randomness. To put it in perspective, Bryant and James have played a combined 7,871 minutes over the past two regular seasons, and only 17 of those minutes were played when their respective teams needed a "big shot" (tied or trailing by no more than three points with the game clock at less than 24 seconds). That's 0.02 percent of the time.

These numbers reveal James' teams haven't needed last-second heroics because his monstrous late-game play pushes the close game out of reach, rendering a game-winning shot unnecessary. Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey once said, "Good teams don't win close games -- they avoid them." And the player who personifies that ethos is James.

[D]

Wow! that is very interesting Eazy.

[gnr-4-ever]

Here's a better article that looks at the last 5 minutes of "crunch time" comparing Bron & Kobe... while I wouldn't trust James to hit a buzzer beater, this article suggests that having Kobe on the floor makes it MORE likely that you will need a last second shot.  I don't doubt it after I've seen some of the horrible shots this guy jacks up over double or triple coverage towards the end of close games:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/columns/story?columnist=haberstroh_tom&page=KobeLeBronclutch-101222

That's what I was trying to say. The whole impact that Bryant has on his team is not even close to what Lebron does. That +/- stat just shows that Bryant gets his team into trouble a lot more than he saves them from trouble. But do you ever see Kobe get blamed for the bad things he does? No. Do you see him when he hits a game winner and gets all the credits? Absolutely. That's the thing that bothers me, it's like they are artificially making a hero out of him which he is definately far from.

[LongGoneDay]

I hate them both, but I think Kobe is still the best player in the NBA.  I have little faith in Lebron taking and hitting big shots.  I have seen Kobe do it to my Celtics time and again over the years.  Lebron is obviously younger and could take it to that level someday, but he's not there yet.  Not as far as I'm concerned.

And speaking of my Celtics.  God they're struggling heading to the finish line AGAIN.  Did the same thing last year and then made that improbable run to the finals.  So I can't get TOO worried just yet.  But this year it seems like the risky trade they made may have really messed up team unity.  Trying to get all these new guys mixed in is proving much more difficult than I could've imagined.  Plus without the O'Neal's, they have no legit post presence.  And if we have to rely on those 2 guys to be the "answer", that's a scary proposition.  The Bulls look damn strong anyway, so it might not matter.  I knew Lebron should've gone to Chicago.  They're better, and younger than the Heat.

They are scary bad right now, no doubt about it, but I don't think it's because of the trade. The C's were one of the best teams in the NBA early on, with Perk on the bench. Plus their problem isn't defense during this rut, it's their scoring. Perk wasn't exactly an offensive force. Rondo seems off, and everyone seems to be slumping at the same time, unfortunately. As much as I hate the fact that Perk is gone, it was clear this was gonna be his last year here, so landing Green and Curly looks awfully good as opposed to losing Perk in FA.

I don't expect much if anything from JO other than 6 hard fouls. 20 minutes from Shaq could make a HUGE difference, but getting Rondo back on track will determine how far the C's go. If Shaq comes back, our bench is gonna look awfully good. As bad as they look right now, I still can't see many teams beating them in a 7 game series. Chicago does scare me though, especially since they will most likely have home court.

[faldor]

I hate them both, but I think Kobe is still the best player in the NBA.  I have little faith in Lebron taking and hitting big shots.  I have seen Kobe do it to my Celtics time and again over the years.  Lebron is obviously younger and could take it to that level someday, but he's not there yet.  Not as far as I'm concerned.

And speaking of my Celtics.  God they're struggling heading to the finish line AGAIN.  Did the same thing last year and then made that improbable run to the finals.  So I can't get TOO worried just yet.  But this year it seems like the risky trade they made may have really messed up team unity.  Trying to get all these new guys mixed in is proving much more difficult than I could've imagined.  Plus without the O'Neal's, they have no legit post presence.  And if we have to rely on those 2 guys to be the "answer", that's a scary proposition.  The Bulls look damn strong anyway, so it might not matter.  I knew Lebron should've gone to Chicago.  They're better, and younger than the Heat.

They are scary bad right now, no doubt about it, but I don't think it's because of the trade. The C's were one of the best teams in the NBA early on, with Perk on the bench. Plus their problem isn't defense during this rut, it's their scoring. Perk wasn't exactly an offensive force. Rondo seems off, and everyone seems to be slumping at the same time, unfortunately. As much as I hate the fact that Perk is gone, it was clear this was gonna be his last year here, so landing Green and Curly looks awfully good as opposed to losing Perk in FA.

I don't expect much if anything from JO other than 6 hard fouls. 20 minutes from Shaq could make a HUGE difference, but getting Rondo back on track will determine how far the C's go. If Shaq comes back, our bench is gonna look awfully good. As bad as they look right now, I still can't see many teams beating them in a 7 game series. Chicago does scare me though, especially since they will most likely have home court.

Yeah I don't really blame the trade either, although their post defense is severely lacking at the moment.  Kristic is a fine offensive player, but no name big men like Deandre Jordan have been lighting up the C's with regularity since the trade.  I thought when the trade went down that it was a good move for the future, but not necessarily for THIS season.  So far, it hasn't helped.  You're right though, if Rondo can get back on track and Shaq can give them something positive, and the other key players can get out of the rut they've been in, they'll be fine.  It happened last year, so I do think they'll be fine.  The only problem is, there's more tough competition in the East this year.  Chicago is no joke and as much as I've made fun of the Heat this year, they're obviously a solid team.  And the C's played the Magic well with Perk defending and limiting Dwight Howard.  Not that he did it all by himself, but you have one less guy to throw at him because as I said, Kristic is useless on defense.  So Orlando probably wouldn't be a walk in the park either.

[D]

The problem with Boston is, they are super old. So they are trying to win this year but also play for the future. its a dangerous balancing act but Boston were 100 percent smart trading Kendrick Perkins and here is why:

Boston have MAYBE a 2 year window left. KG is old,Allen is old, Pierce is knocking on the door of being OLD.

Kendrick Perkins looks good largely thanks to the system and players around him. Rondo,KG are all world defenders, Perkins can play his role and excel but in NO WAY do u give 9 million dollars per season to a guy averaging 5pts and 5rebs a game and potentially shaky/injured knees.

Why?

Cause Boston will be rebuilding soon and the last thing u want, is a horrible contract on your books and thats what Perkins would be. Perkins is worth it on a great team, but on a rebuilding team, he eats up important salary cap dollars giving u virtually no impact on the game.

So the trade brings in a young potentially very good swingman in Jeff Green. Rondo is still very young.... so they have a shot to stay at least a playoff team after this window of Allen,pierce and KG is over.

[faldor]

The problem with Boston is, they are super old. So they are trying to win this year but also play for the future. its a dangerous balancing act but Boston were 100 percent smart trading Kendrick Perkins and here is why:

Boston have MAYBE a 2 year window left. KG is old,Allen is old, Pierce is knocking on the door of being OLD.

Kendrick Perkins looks good largely thanks to the system and players around him. Rondo,KG are all world defenders, Perkins can play his role and excel but in NO WAY do u give 9 million dollars per season to a guy averaging 5pts and 5rebs a game and potentially shaky/injured knees.

Why?

Cause Boston will be rebuilding soon and the last thing u want, is a horrible contract on your books and thats what Perkins would be. Perkins is worth it on a great team, but on a rebuilding team, he eats up important salary cap dollars giving u virtually no impact on the game.

So the trade brings in a young potentially very good swingman in Jeff Green. Rondo is still very young.... so they have a shot to stay at least a playoff team after this window of Allen,pierce and KG is over.

I agree, that's how I view it as well.

Unfortunately though, Perk was really well liked among his teammates.  He was best friends with Rondo and Rajon's play has fallen off dramatically since the trade.  It may just be a coincidence, or he could be "tanking" it because his heart just isn't in it like it used to be.  He was benched last night, after his horrendous play of late.  They said it was for a pinky injury, but the overall thought is there's way more to it than that and has very little to do with physical health.  When he's on, Rondo is one of the best PG's in the game.  But he's extremely moody, and has had his fair share of issues during his tenure with the Celtics.  The last couple of years, Danny Ainge has contemplated trading him away, and I used to think that was an insane thought.  But now I can at least accept why it would be considered.  He's almost like the Manny Ramirez of the Celtics.

Hopefully he gets his ass in line, and soon.  Get over it, your friend was traded away.  It happens.  Sports is big business, it's nothing personal.

[LongGoneDay]

I really don't want to believe Rondo's poor play is due to Perk being traded. That would be ridiculous on his part. I think it's more likely due to fatigue, injuries. He has been asked to play a ton of minutes with West being injured all year, and vying for the top seed. If C's aren't 2 games back, I don't think Rondo is benched last night, but now that the top spot seems unlikely at this point, I hope he gets his rest, because C's are going now where fast unless he returns to form.

If we are playing make believe, and $ is no factor, I'd definitely prefer having Perk in the lineup for the C's. He's the least talented player of the starting 5, but he fit the C's system like a glove. KG is the best defensive player on the team, and one of the best we will ever see, but Perk was the guy the defense sent players to. He's was the enforcer, the guy who made you think twice about going to the hole.

I don't have a problem with the trade under the unfortunate circumstances that in reality, $ is a huge factor. The only move that Ainge made, or didn't make that I have a problem with was letting Tony Allen walk. If he's here, C's aren't desperate for someone to get PP rest, and maybe C's can live with riding out the season with Perk, and losing him as FA. I think Green's a nicer player than TA, but Perk and TA looks a lot better than Green and Krystic.

Not entirely sure it was necessary to dump Harongody and Erden either(pretty sure I butchered their names). Could have used their toughness/fouls. C's went from size being a strength to a weakness fast.

In reality, Perk wasn't gonna be worth the contract it would take to keep him here. He was gone the day he rejected the max C's could offer. I agree that losing him does suddenly make the Heat, and to some degree the Magic more scary than before. I didn't view either as a real threat before the trade. I thought Perk would be the most missed vs LA if that match up happened, but after watching a small Heat lineup have their way vs LA, it doesn't seem as big a deal.

Scary to think about it, but they are going to need Shaq to contribute. If he can, C's could still be a real dangerous team.
KG is a better player now than he was last year.

[LongGoneDay]

I may have to give the C's a rest, myself. Watching them lose to teams like the Bobcats and Pacers is painful!
Rondo played well..

[faldor]

I may have to give the C's a rest, myself. Watching them lose to teams like the Bobcats and Pacers is painful!
Rondo played well..

Yeah, they are scary bad right now.  They barely beat the T-wolves the other night.  I'm hoping they can right the ship for the playoffs, but that's hard to imagine the way they've been playing.

[LongGoneDay]

I know, and without K Love..

Hopefully LA, Chicago and Miami are peaking too soon!

I want a Spurs/Celtics Finals, so both teams better get their shit together.

[Bodhi]

I will disagree with anyone who says Carmelo Anthony is a great player.

He is a great "Scorer" but he isn't a great basketball player.

Guy has little impact on a team, stops the ball, hogs the ball, plays zero defense, makes noone better.

I think i called him Vince Carter

I disagree with the Carter nonsense.  Carmelo single handily won a national title with Syracuse.  He has also averaged 30 points a game in a playoff series and been to the conference finals and took the Lakers to 6.  Vince Carter has never played in a big game in his life.  Carmelo Anthony is one of the best players in the league.  I think the word "great" is overused in the NBA.  Great is used to describe guys that played on the first Dream Team, there are only about 5 or 6  GREAT NBA players in the NBA playing at that level right now.  Duncan, Bryant, Lebron, Wade,  guys like that. 

[D]

Vince Carter took a much worse Toronto into 2nd round losing in 7 to Iverson's Philly team. he has been out of the first rd of the playoffs more than Melo. Carmelo has been out of first rd ONCE in 7 seasons. will be 8 after this year.

in 2005 with NJ Vince average 29.6ppg  7 rebs and 5 assists

Injuries also hurt a lot of Vince's production but i think they are very similar as they both were considered big superstars and neither do much defensively or to make teammates better.


 I think u forget how famous and highly regarded Vince was his first 3 or 4 seasons.

College titles mean absolutely nothing. Vince played in a different era where guys stayed so competition was much tougher.

[Bodhi]

I agree that I personally don't care about college titles, but it does mean something for you to take a team on your back and bring them to a championship.  He had no help on that team.  Carmelo Anthony is a much better player than Vince Carter ever was.  You mentioned how he took the Raptors to the second round of the playoffs and lost to the 2001 Sixers who themselves were the 2nd worst team Ive ever seen go to a Finals(07 Cavs are number 1)  Carmelo Anthony is going to win a championship with the Knicks.  They have the money, and they play in the mecca of baskeball with 2 superstars, with Chris Paul or Deron Williams on the way.  It might not be next year or the year after, but Carmelo will get a ring in New York.  They just have to get rid of that soft ass D'Antoni, one of the most overated coaches in NBA History.

[D]

He has been way more consistent than Vince as far as career numbers but I think carmelo is more Vince Carter than Kobe Bryant.

I do agree with your great statement.

not sure bout NY. If they get Chris Paul, then yeah, i can def see titles. the way its constructed now? They will never get passed Miami.

next year, good quality veterans will go to Miami for cheap.

[faldor]

I agree that I personally don't care about college titles, but it does mean something for you to take a team on your back and bring them to a championship.  He had no help on that team.  Carmelo Anthony is a much better player than Vince Carter ever was.  You mentioned how he took the Raptors to the second round of the playoffs and lost to the 2001 Sixers who themselves were the 2nd worst team Ive ever seen go to a Finals(07 Cavs are number 1)  Carmelo Anthony is going to win a championship with the Knicks.  They have the money, and they play in the mecca of baskeball with 2 superstars, with Chris Paul or Deron Williams on the way.  It might not be next year or the year after, but Carmelo will get a ring in New York.  They just have to get rid of that soft ass D'Antoni, one of the most overated coaches in NBA History.

Agree, the Knicks are headed in the right direction.  It's a bit premature to get on Carmelo for not taking the Knicks to new heights.  There's an adjustment period, even for the great ones.  The Knicks aren't a great team yet, give them that elite PG and that will change.  And as much as I hate NY teams, the NBA will be much better if the Knicks are a major player.

[LongGoneDay]

Melo and Amare will have to commit themselves on the defensive end if they ever intend to live up to the hype that surrounds them. There is no reason to believe that will happen, as they haven't really shown any signs of doing so half way through their careers. I was a fan of Melo, and waiting for him to play to his potential, but now that he is in NY, I hope he keeps avoiding D like the plague! They aren't far off as far as personnel, but they aren't close when it comes to mindset. That has a lot to do with D' Antoni. Tough to be successful with him at the helm. He's the last guy you want trying to turn the big 2 around. Hopefully Dolan re ups him long term. Maybe bring Isiah back too.

Celtics finally showed they have a pulse last night!
Great game, hopefully it was a Finals preview, but not as confident as I was 2 months ago.

[Bodhi]

I agree that I personally don't care about college titles, but it does mean something for you to take a team on your back and bring them to a championship.  He had no help on that team.  Carmelo Anthony is a much better player than Vince Carter ever was.  You mentioned how he took the Raptors to the second round of the playoffs and lost to the 2001 Sixers who themselves were the 2nd worst team Ive ever seen go to a Finals(07 Cavs are number 1)  Carmelo Anthony is going to win a championship with the Knicks.  They have the money, and they play in the mecca of baskeball with 2 superstars, with Chris Paul or Deron Williams on the way.  It might not be next year or the year after, but Carmelo will get a ring in New York.  They just have to get rid of that soft ass D'Antoni, one of the most overated coaches in NBA History.

Agree, the Knicks are headed in the right direction.  It's a bit premature to get on Carmelo for not taking the Knicks to new heights.  There's an adjustment period, even for the great ones.  The Knicks aren't a great team yet, give them that elite PG and that will change.  And as much as I hate NY teams, the NBA will be much better if the Knicks are a major player.

yeah, they need to get a few more pieces, a few hustle guys on defense and rebounding, similar to Oakley or Mason.  D'Antoni must either 1. GO or 2. hire a defensive assistant.  An NBA title has never been won without defense.  Hey did anyone happen to catch the Laker/Mavs game last night?  The  "May" Mavericks showed up a month early.