The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[LongGoneDay]

It's pretty well documented that Kobe wanted Shaq gone. He was caught on tape demanding Bynum be traded.
Kobe demanded to be traded himself a few years ago.
Kobe was the second best player on the Shaq era Lakers, that much isn't up for debate. Shaq is one of the most dominant big men the game has ever seen, and easily of his era.
Shaq was the Finals MVP each series. When he left, he won with Wade, while Kobe's Lakers became a laughing stock of the NBA until the Pau Gasol heist.
Again, Kobe deserves credit, it's a team game, and he played his part, but he wasn't the best player on the team, and that was my point. I brought it up because people use the rings when comparing him to Jordan, but Jordan was unquestionably the best player on his team, so there is a difference.

[Bodhi]

To me Kobe isn't much better than players from the start of the past decade (Mcgrady, Carter, Iverson), he might be a better scorer than those 3 were but that's all because he had the most help of all of them during his career, not to mention the best coaching staff in the league.

Iverson is a Hall of Famer, but still nowhere near Kobe Bryant but at least there is a discussion there.  Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter are two of the biggest busts in the history of the NBA when it comes to the potential they had, measured up to what they actually achieved.  McGrady has never been out of the first round of the Playoffs!  Carter hasn't played in a big game in his life.  That has nothing to do with the teams they were on, Allen Iverson took one of the worst teams in NBA History to the NBA Finals by himself.

[D]

What happened to LA when Shaq got traded? They got what? The 8th seed?

Kobe has had a superstar big man his entire career to be successful. Fuck he has two this season with Bynum and Gasol. U have the best perimeter defender in Ron Artest.

Kobe plays on stacked teams.

I didn't realize how shitty some of the Bulls teams were Jordan had till i bought NBA2k11. Outside Jordan and Pippen, Horace Grant was ok..... cartwright was ok.. paxson ok.. but Stacey king,Cliff Levingston,Craig hodges, Will perdue... Fuck what a terrible supporting cast.

If Kobe doesn't play with Shaq, and if LA don't steal Gasol, Kobe more than likely has no rings.

The media and experts always overlook WHO played with these guys.

People put Bill Russell Over Wilt cause he won 11 titles. Bill had 4 or 5 other Hall of Famers on his team. That doesn't mean Russell is better, just means he had a better team.

Thats my argument with Dirk. If he were black or American born, he'd be elevated higher than what he is. Dirk had Steve Nash before he was the MVP Nash, Josh Fucking Howard, and now his 2nd best player Caron Butler is out for the year. Played his entire career with pure SHIT at Center.


Having a great center allows u to play better more aggressive defense cause when u get beat, u have someone behind u to clean it up. Dirk has never had that, so it makes it look even worse when he gets beat by his man.

[LongGoneDay]

People put Bill Russell Over Wilt cause he won 11 titles. Bill had 4 or 5 other Hall of Famers on his team. That doesn't mean Russell is better, just means he had a better team.

I understand your point, but in this case you have to realize Russell made his teammates better. They may not be HOFers if not for playing with him. Both Wilt and Russell were freaks. Wilt was more about his stats, and Russell in it for rings. They both got what they wanted.

[gnr-4-ever]

To me Kobe isn't much better than players from the start of the past decade (Mcgrady, Carter, Iverson), he might be a better scorer than those 3 were but that's all because he had the most help of all of them during his career, not to mention the best coaching staff in the league.

Iverson is a Hall of Famer, but still nowhere near Kobe Bryant but at least there is a discussion there.  Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter are two of the biggest busts in the history of the NBA when it comes to the potential they had, measured up to what they actually achieved.  McGrady has never been out of the first round of the Playoffs!  Carter hasn't played in a big game in his life.  That has nothing to do with the teams they were on, Allen Iverson took one of the worst teams in NBA History to the NBA Finals by himself.

There's not many people who appreciate what AI did the way I do. And if you ask me, if the Lakers draft him instead of Kobe I'm thinking they double the championships won, AI was just entering his prime at the start of the decade while Shaq was already there. Sure there would be some "who's the MVP of the team" issues but that would all be solved with a few championships won. Since the league was "weak" at the time the Lakers would be impossible to stop, AI and Shaq both make each other better players since they play together, share a few MVPs in the process and the rest is history. But yeah, that's all a part of our imaginations so it's pointless to discuss it.

The thing that bothers me about people's opinion about AI is that most of them use the "he played no defense" thing. Well guess what - it's kinda hard to play defense when your 6 foot in the league where the average height is 6foot6inches, but yeah Larry Brown and Philly brought the best out of him in terms of playing defense. They used all of his ability, played him like he played in Georgetown where he won the Defensive player of the year award twice I think. So yeah, he played defense in the best possible way because of his size and people don't see that. I have followed him and admired him throughout his career and never once he used that size thing as a excuse and people have to give him credit for it. The NBA has never seen a player like him before he got there and I think we will never see one again.

And about Mcgrady and Carter, I think they were misused in a lot of ways. And maybe they weren't on the same level as AI and Kobe but you have to wonder how would it all turn out if they went to different organizations who cared more about winning rather than giving them all the power on the court and letting them do whatever they want.

[D]

people forget it was robert horry or derek fisher that hit most of those clutch shots.

Iverson was great but was a guy who needed a specific team built around him to win.

Philly were so great that year, cause they finally surrounded him with the proper pieces. A tough,defensive oriented team. Years later in his career, more scorers would brought in, and it just didn't work well.

I've honestly never been a fan of any high volume shooter. scoring 30ppg on 25shots doesn't impress me.

thats why i've never been an Iverson,and now Durant fan.


Dirk shoots 53 percent from the field and is a jump shooter. he scores 25 a night on 13 to 15 shots. If he took same shot amount as Durant, he'd lead league in scoring.


back on Kobe, lets also don't forget he has played for the greatest NBA coach of all time as well. that also certainly helps.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

If this, if that.

All I hear are a bunch of haters crying.

Remember this.

Jordan wasn't SHIT until Pippen and PJax rolled into town.  He would have been just another Iverson.

Get your heads out of your asses, "people."  And I use that word very loosely.

[gnr-4-ever]

If this, if that.

All I hear are a bunch of haters crying.

Remember this.

Jordan wasn't SHIT until Pippen and PJax rolled into town.  He would have been just another Iverson.

Get your heads out of your asses, "people."  And I use that word very loosely.

Talk about if this, if that. 


Not agreeing on everything with the people who jerk off on Kobe doesn't make you a hater. Saying he's top 20 all time is okay (debatable in my mind, but fine), but comparing him with the GOAT no fuckin' way.

[faldor]

Next year the NBA will get a look at Kemba Walker, who's game is similar to Allen Iverson's.  We'll see how it pans out, but the potential is there.

[gnr-4-ever]

Next year the NBA will get a look at Kemba Walker, who's game is similar to Allen Iverson's.  We'll see how it pans out, but the potential is there.

I've seen the guy play on TV and some highlights on Youtube. Kemba has a killer first step and the crossover but the overall speed isn't like Allen's and that's a big difference in the playing style. Allen relied so much on his speed during his career and without it he definitely wouldn't be the same. It all depends on the draft and where Walker ends up. A lot of teams will probably pass on him since he's short, but if he does go to a rebuilding team (Cleveland) he would have a lot of space there to showcase all of his talent and ability.

[faldor]

Next year the NBA will get a look at Kemba Walker, who's game is similar to Allen Iverson's.  We'll see how it pans out, but the potential is there.

I've seen the guy play on TV and some highlights on Youtube. Kemba has a killer first step and the crossover but the overall speed isn't like Allen's and that's a big difference in the playing style. Allen relied so much on his speed during his career and without it he definitely wouldn't be the same. It all depends on the draft and where Walker ends up. A lot of teams will probably pass on him since he's short, but if he does go to a rebuilding team (Cleveland) he would have a lot of space there to showcase all of his talent and ability.

Agreed, he's not as quick as Iverson was.  More of an Allen Iverson-lite.  He probably will be passed on by many team due to his diminutive status, but I think those teams will regret it.  He's had a great season and amazing run the last couple of weeks especially.

[D]

Kemba will be a Jamal Crawford/Jason Terry type 6th man scorer off the bench.

[gnr-4-ever]

Kemba will be a Jamal Crawford/Jason Terry type 6th man scorer off the bench.

Doubt it. This ain't bench material, this is superstar potential:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCIJ06uC-jQ

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

If this, if that.

All I hear are a bunch of haters crying.

Remember this.

Jordan wasn't SHIT until Pippen and PJax rolled into town.  He would have been just another Iverson.

Get your heads out of your asses, "people."  And I use that word very loosely.

Talk about if this, if that. 


Not agreeing on everything with the people who jerk off on Kobe doesn't make you a hater. Saying he's top 20 all time is okay (debatable in my mind, but fine), but comparing him with the GOAT no fuckin' way.

Replace Kobe with Jordan in your post and you will see that you're straight sippin' from the Haterade.

Top 20, get out of here.  Even MJ himself said that Kobe is top 10 all time, and once he's done with his career he'll be top 5 if not top three. 

MJ > gnr-4-ever.

Learn a thing or two about basketball before you come on here talking all kinds of nonsense.

[gnr-4-ever]

If this, if that.

All I hear are a bunch of haters crying.

Remember this.

Jordan wasn't SHIT until Pippen and PJax rolled into town.  He would have been just another Iverson.

Get your heads out of your asses, "people."  And I use that word very loosely.

Talk about if this, if that. 


Not agreeing on everything with the people who jerk off on Kobe doesn't make you a hater. Saying he's top 20 all time is okay (debatable in my mind, but fine), but comparing him with the GOAT no fuckin' way.

Replace Kobe with Jordan in your post and you will see that you're straight sippin' from the Haterade.

Top 20, get out of here.  Even MJ himself said that Kobe is top 10 all time, and once he's done with his career he'll be top 5 if not top three. 

MJ > gnr-4-ever.

Learn a thing or two about basketball before you come on here talking all kinds of nonsense.

Yeah um, here's the quote of what MJ said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOMPY1ltwI

Clearly says top 10 GUARDS of all time.

Top 3 all time? Yes, top 3 most overrated players of all time. 

I need to learn a thing or two about basketball? I've been following the NBA since I was a little kid, almost 14 years.

Hate to disappoint you but I dedicate most of my free time to NBA and GN'R (almost the same amount of time) and I think i know a few things when it comes to basketball.

Unlike yourself, you just hear what you want to hear and not what MJ actually said. But I understand you completely, since there's no real arguments to make when people say Kobe is top 10 of all time.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

If this, if that.

All I hear are a bunch of haters crying.

Remember this.

Jordan wasn't SHIT until Pippen and PJax rolled into town.  He would have been just another Iverson.

Get your heads out of your asses, "people."  And I use that word very loosely.

Talk about if this, if that. 


Not agreeing on everything with the people who jerk off on Kobe doesn't make you a hater. Saying he's top 20 all time is okay (debatable in my mind, but fine), but comparing him with the GOAT no fuckin' way.

Replace Kobe with Jordan in your post and you will see that you're straight sippin' from the Haterade.

Top 20, get out of here.  Even MJ himself said that Kobe is top 10 all time, and once he's done with his career he'll be top 5 if not top three. 

MJ > gnr-4-ever.

Learn a thing or two about basketball before you come on here talking all kinds of nonsense.

Yeah um, here's the quote of what MJ said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOMPY1ltwI

Clearly says top 10 GUARDS of all time.

Top 3 all time? Yes, top 3 most overrated players of all time. 

I need to learn a thing or two about basketball? I've been following the NBA since I was a little kid, almost 14 years.

Hate to disappoint you but I dedicate most of my free time to NBA and GN'R (almost the same amount of time) and I think i know a few things when it comes to basketball.

Overrated?  More like most DISRESPECTED player.  People find things about him to disrespect all the time. 

Like that garbage stat about Melo being more clutch than Kobe.  Yeah, sure, some geek invented a "clutchness" stat and Melo is on top.  BIG DEAL.  Who has more memorable and more important buzzer beaters?  How many rings does Melo have?

Melo is now STRUGGLING in New York!  How is that clutch?

I don't know what the media in Croatia says or doesn't say, and I know your first experiences with basketball were during Jordan's three-peat, but take off the blinders man.  Nobody here in the United States jerks off Kobe.  Everyone is too busy jerking off LeBronze and getting nuts all over their face to even notice Kobe.  It's ok though, he'll just keep adding more rings to his fingers while all of you turn green with envy.

And believe me, I'm not disappointed that you spend most of your free time to GN'R and basketball, I pity you.

[D]

what did Kobe do those 3 years after Shaq was traded? Till they stole Gasol, he was barely making the playoffs.

[gnr-4-ever]

Overrated?  More like most DISRESPECTED player.  People find things about him to disrespect all the time. 

Like that garbage stat about Melo being more clutch than Kobe.  Yeah, sure, some geek invented a "clutchness" stat and Melo is on top.  BIG DEAL.  Who has more memorable and more important buzzer beaters?  How many rings does Melo have?

Melo is now STRUGGLING in New York!  How is that clutch?

I don't know what the media in Croatia says or doesn't say, and I know your first experiences with basketball were during Jordan's three-peat, but take off the blinders man.  Nobody here in the United States jerks off Kobe.  Everyone is too busy jerking off LeBronze and getting nuts all over their face to even notice Kobe.  It's ok though, he'll just keep adding more rings to his fingers while all of you turn green with envy.

And believe me, I'm not disappointed that you spend most of your free time to GN'R and basketball, I pity you.

Overrated and disrespected for a reason. Why don't people disrespect Lebron so much? They do only because of the "decision" thing, but his game? Not really. LeBron accomplished individually more than Kobe in his first 7 season than Kobe did in 14. So yeah, Lebron didn't win any championships only because he didn't have someone win them for him.


You can't really be serious about Melo? You're judging him on his first 17 games with the Knicks? C'mon man, you can do better than that. Fact is he's a better clutch player than Bryant, only difference is you prefer Kobe more and his clucth shots are more memorable to you. I suggest you read this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time . Now the guy who wrote the article makes a living writing about basketball, I'm sure he knows a lot more than you and I do who take basketball as just a hobby.


The media in Croatia stopped caring about the NBA around 2000-2001, last game they broadcasted was probably a regular season one. I don't really care much what other people think, I create my own view on things in life including basketball. There's people who praise certain players too much, too much that they don't deserve that. LeBron's fans are way more realistic when it comes to praising. Sometimes they go to far I admit that, but Kobe's fans are saying he's better than Jordan on a regular basis which is true as almost as me walking on the Moon as I write this post.


And about the free time thing, that's personal so no point in discussing it. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

what did Kobe do those 3 years after Shaq was traded? Till they stole Gasol, he was barely making the playoffs.

The starters around him included SMUSH Parker, a young player who is now out of the league, a coach that couldn't finish out a season because he got sick, and a big man who had Parkinson's disease.  It was a miracle they made the playoffs.  He didn't crumble, he played great, his team around him was bad.

What you knuckleheads are failing to realize is that championship teams always have great players all around.  Name me a championship team that had ONE guy carry them to the Larry O.  You can't, its impossible.

Overrated?  More like most DISRESPECTED player.  People find things about him to disrespect all the time. 

Like that garbage stat about Melo being more clutch than Kobe.  Yeah, sure, some geek invented a "clutchness" stat and Melo is on top.  BIG DEAL.  Who has more memorable and more important buzzer beaters?  How many rings does Melo have?

Melo is now STRUGGLING in New York!  How is that clutch?

I don't know what the media in Croatia says or doesn't say, and I know your first experiences with basketball were during Jordan's three-peat, but take off the blinders man.  Nobody here in the United States jerks off Kobe.  Everyone is too busy jerking off LeBronze and getting nuts all over their face to even notice Kobe.  It's ok though, he'll just keep adding more rings to his fingers while all of you turn green with envy.

And believe me, I'm not disappointed that you spend most of your free time to GN'R and basketball, I pity you.

Overrated and disrespected for a reason. Why don't people disrespect Lebron so much? They do only because of the "decision" thing, but his game? Not really. LeBron accomplished individually more than Kobe in his first 7 season than Kobe did in 14. So yeah, Lebron didn't win any championships only because he didn't have someone win them for him.


You can't really be serious about Melo? You're judging him on his first 17 games with the Knicks? C'mon man, you can do better than that. Fact is he's a better clutch player than Bryant, only difference is you prefer Kobe more and his clucth shots are more memorable to you. I suggest you read this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time . Now the guy who wrote the article makes a living writing about basketball, I'm sure he knows a lot more than you and I do who take basketball as just a hobby.


The media in Croatia stopped caring about the NBA around 2000-2001, last game they broadcasted was probably a regular season one. I don't really care much what other people think, I create my own view on things in life including basketball. There's people who praise certain players too much, too much that they don't deserve that. LeBron's fans are way more realistic when it comes to praising. Sometimes they go to far I admit that, but Kobe's fans are saying he's better than Jordan on a regular basis which is true as almost as me walking on the Moon as I write this post.


And about the free time thing, that's personal so no point in discussing it. 

Yeah I read that article.  Completely bogus.  That's what I was mentioning before about those bogus clutch stats. 

Why did he pick only the final 24 seconds of a game?  Last possession?  That doesn't indicate crunch time!  Clearly the author has an agenda against Kobe and he is going out of his way to write that article and make Bryant look bad.  In all my years of watching basketball, crunch time has never been about the final 24 seconds.

You don't think the media ever bends the truth to write their story?  You say your other passion is GNR, look at all the negative articles that are written about Axl.  Most of them contain few solid and truthful statements.

And hold the phone.  LeBron has accomplished more individually in 7 years than Kobe HOW?  A scoring average?  Is that your metric of success?  More "regular season" MVP's?

Kobe had 3 rings after his 6th NBA campaign.  And NO, he didn't win only because of Shaq.  Shaq would not have won it without Kobe, so don't use that tired old argument.

And let's be honest, one of Steve Nash's MVP's belongs to Kobe.  At the very least! 

And Nowitzki?  He won his MVP the year he got BOUNCED from the first round of the playoffs by Golden State!  Yeah, very valuable indeed.

So yeah, Lebron didn't win any championships only because he didn't have someone win them for him.


Child, please.  He had the best record in the league before he decided to disappear.  He also pulls that disappearing act in Miami.  How many last second shots has he missed this year?

I beg you, please pay more attention to basketball before you come on here and make ludicrous statements.

[gnr-4-ever]

Yeah I read that article.  Completely bogus.  That's what I was mentioning before about those bogus clutch stats. 

Why did he pick only the final 24 seconds of a game?  Last possession?  That doesn't indicate crunch time!  Clearly the author has an agenda against Kobe and he is going out of his way to write that article and make Bryant look bad.  In all my years of watching basketball, crunch time has never been about the final 24 seconds.

You don't think the media ever bends the truth to write their story?  You say your other passion is GNR, look at all the negative articles that are written about Axl.  Most of them contain few solid and truthful statements.

And hold the phone.  LeBron has accomplished more individually in 7 years than Kobe HOW?  A scoring average?  Is that your metric of success?  More "regular season" MVP's?

Kobe had 3 rings after his 6th NBA campaign.  And NO, he didn't win only because of Shaq.  Shaq would not have won it without Kobe, so don't use that tired old argument.

And let's be honest, one of Steve Nash's MVP's belongs to Kobe.  At the very least! 

And Nowitzki?  He won his MVP the year he got BOUNCED from the first round of the playoffs by Golden State!  Yeah, very valuable indeed.

So yeah, Lebron didn't win any championships only because he didn't have someone win them for him.


Child, please.  He had the best record in the league before he decided to disappear.  He also pulls that disappearing act in Miami.  How many last second shots has he missed this year?

I beg you, please pay more attention to basketball before you come on here and make ludicrous statements.

Yeah yeah, it's all a big conspiracy against Bryant. All made up to make him look bad and to support my bogus claims. Real arguments there, very nice. 

Don't know the reason to put Axl in the conversation, but we all know the real reason the media doesn't like him but that's another topic not even connected to this one. Fact is the media is the one to blame for overrating Kobe so much before LeBron started playing up to his potential, cause you had to sell something after MJ left, the AI experiment was working but Stern was against it so they had to do something else than that. They saw Kobe as a player who could somehow copy MJ's moves and stuff he did, clearly they failed but somehow they are still sticking to their "let's praise Kobe and make a God out of him" which is insane. Somebody who chokes in a Game 7 against his biggest rival and his teammates rescue him cannot be even mentioned in the same sentence as MJ.

Sorry to disappoint you again but Kobe was just a complementary player (okay maybe a bit more important than others) to Shaq. It was Shaq's team, he won all the Finals MVPs, the regular season MVP, he was the emotional leader. The small things were done by Kobe, Fisher (few buzzer beaters), Horry (also buzzer beaters), Rick Fox and other complementary players. And don't tell me Shaq wouldn't do it without Kobe, if Kobe took at least 1 finals MVP award I'd say he was important but he wasn't he was just one of the pieces around Shaq.


LeBron James did accomplish more than Bryant in his first 7+ seasons. In terms of stats (higher fg%, more assists, more rebounds), efficiency, making a impact on his whole team, making other people around him play better cause after all basketball is a team sport and not "let me shoot over 3 defenders even though I have 2 open teammates who can make a open 3 in their sleep". And yeah, more regular season MVP awards does say LeBron is better than Kobe. The true meaning of the award is "being the most valuable player on (one of) the best teams in the league". LeBron did lead his team by himself to the finals in '07, remember what he did to Detroit alone? When did Bryant bring his team on his own shoulders to the finals? Let me answer it for you - NEVER. How many time did Kobe's team won 60 games in a regular season? Just once. Lebron? Twice. Now you compare Kobe's team to LeBron's team in those seasons.


And let's be honest. Which one from Nash did he deserve? The one where his team won 34 games or the one where his team won 45 games?

Nowitzki, like I said everyone knows the MVP award is a regular season award and it goes to the best player on (one of) the best team. Dirk won it fair and square.


And why are you bringing out LeBron's stats in the final seconds of the game? I've never said LeBron is clutch, he still has a lot to prove when it comes to that. And don't forget, clutch isn't the last seconds of the ball game. After all, you said it yourself. 


No need to call someone who's 1 year younger than yourself a child when you're out of arguments. No need for that.