The 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread

[D]

Carmelo is an amazing talent. i agree  BUT I think he is like an *Sorry Axlsmainman* Allen Iverson. really doesn't do anything to make his team better.

People take for granted how difficult it is to get Triple Doubles. Lebron makes it look effortless.


Look at Cleveland since Lebron left, now look at Denver since Melo left?  big difference.

I agree I'd rather have Melo take the last shot though. but that is one weakness in Lebron's game but it doesn't take away from his all around game.

[LongGoneDay]

Yeah, I agree. Right now it's really not close, Lebron is the better overall player.
I think people who talk about Carmelo are talking more about if he lived up to his potential. I think scoring comes easier to him, and defense is all about effort, so if he put the work in, his ceiling may be higher. He's no rookie though, so who knows if that's ever gonna happen. Lebron definitely seems hungrier, though his game has holes.
He seems to fold under pressure. As a Celtics fan, I love seeing him at the free throw line in critical spots.
He can't shoot, not sure that's lack of effort, or if he just doesn't have it in him. He's overrated defensively, but still far better than Melo.
Wade is the player that scares me in a series with the Heat. I'm hoping Spoelstra keeps drawing up plays that puts the ball in LBJs hands when it counts.

What Iverson did in 2001 is nothing short of amazing. He brought a team that had no business being in the playoffs, to the Finals.

[D]

that was the one year they built the perfect team around Iverson.  Teams screwed up because with Iverson, u just needed a strong defensive/role player team around him. Philly did that perfectly in 2001.

Of course 2001 the East was terrible also.


Ive heard people say Kobe is better than Jordan cause he has had to face much stiffer competition. I can definitely see that angle. if u think of Jordan's era, who was really the 2nd best player? He had no peer at SG. Reggie Miller/Clyde Drexler were good....... but i don't consider either all time greats.

[LongGoneDay]

Oh I don't buy the Kobe/MJ comparison. Look at MJ's playoff numbers, they go up from his already insane season averages. Kobe's go down.
MJ has 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs. Undefeated in the Finals. Kobe played second fiddle to Shaq his first 3, and probably loses to my C's last year, if not for Artest of all people bailing him out.
Kobe would have been the goat, instead they gave him MVP because there was no clear favorite.

I think the media just desperately wants another MJ. It's probably not gonna happen. LBJ sure as hell ain't it. Kobe's the closest thing there is today, he emulated his game from him, but he's no MJ. Very overrated defensively, whereas MJ was a lockdown defender. It didn't take MJ as long to figure out how to make his teammates better. Kobe's nearing the back 9, and still hasn't consistently been able to do it. This late in his career, and his teammates have a name for when he forgets he's not the only person on the floor, he goes off to Kobedar, haha.

[faldor]

Since the Heat seem to have trouble hitting last second shots, maybe they should sign this kid up.  THIS is how you do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEFn-bwrtY&feature=player_embedded

[Bodhi]

Since the Heat seem to have trouble hitting last second shots, maybe they should sign this kid up.  THIS is how you do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEFn-bwrtY&feature=player_embedded

The first thing I thought was that it shouldn't have counted because he traveled 3 times...haha I'm such a dick. 

[D]

Great game last night. Heat have potential but Lebron has to be Magic Johnson and get his teammates involved.

thats what separates Lebron from other players, he is fantastic at making his teammates better but sometimes in Miami, he gets away from that and shoots too much. Last night, he had the perfect blend.


Oh and Dirk and Dallas totally bitchsmacked Carmelo and NY.

[D]

Was a good game, Dallas just couldn't quiet put a run together to get over the hump.

I fear Mark Cuban blew a possible title by not trading for Gerald Wallace at trade deadline. he is exactly the player Dallas has needed for 10 years.

[Bodhi]

Oh and Dirk and Dallas totally bitchsmacked Carmelo and NY.

yeah, but im willing to bet the Knicks get a title before Dallas does.  As long as Cuban is infatuated with soft Euro's they are never going to get it done. I hear he is interested in Rubio now, haha.  He should really take a look at Dwill next season.

[D]

Carmelo Anthony is soooooooooo overrated. Knicks 6-5 since they got him. lost to Cleveland and Indiana.

People hate on Dirk but all is basically bullshit. Dirk still one of the top 5 in the league today. Dude made it to the finals with Josh Howard as his number 2.

He has never had the talent Kobe and others have had.


Carmelo scores... thats it. terrible defender, rebounder ,help defender, passer...... he makes nobody better.

Denver getting ready to be something like 8-2 since the trade.

Superstar my ass

knicks wont win title.. they will never beat Miami.

[Bodhi]

Carmelo Anthony is soooooooooo overrated. Knicks 6-5 since they got him. lost to Cleveland and Indiana.

People hate on Dirk but all is basically bullshit. Dirk still one of the top 5 in the league today. Dude made it to the finals with Josh Howard as his number 2.



Carmelo scores... thats it. terrible defender, rebounder ,help defender, passer...... he makes nobody better.

dude you just explained Dirk perfectly.  Dirk is one of the most overated players in NBA History.  I wouldn't even wipe my ass with that bullshit MVP award he won in 2007, when he got bitch slapped so bad by Golden State in the first round they had to BENCH him!! An MVP getting benched??  Lets also not forget about arguably the greatest collapse in NBA Finals history against the heat.  A top 5 player in the NBA would seal the deal on a title when hes up 2-0 and has a 13 point lead in Game 3.  Dirk is so soft it makes me sick.  You are talking about how the Knicks are 6-5 since the trade..who gives a fuck?  It is the regular season!  It means nothing.  Also we all know its not about THIS year or NEXT year for the Knicks, they are still building.  Dirk is not even a top 10 player in the league today, nevermind top 5.  You think he is on the level of Kobe, Wade and Lebron, really?

[D]

What did Kobe do without Shaq? What did Kobe do before they stole Pau Gasol?

Who has the better supporting cast in their careers? Kobe or Dirk?

Golden St was a fluke. They were absolutely the perfect matchup for Dallas. Dallas built their team to beat San Antonio and just weren't equipped to matchup. Avery Johnson also fucked it all up by switching the s tarting lineup for the series which killed the chemistry and rotation, He also blew the Miami series with his ridiculous coaching. Doubling Shaq and letting Wade walk to the basket. Wade also got so many bullshit FT's it was sickening. Conspiracy cause of Mark Cuban's ref bashing.

Dirk and Shaq are the only TWO players in NBA history to average 25pts and 10rebs in the postseason. every playoff Dirk does way more than his share. just check the stats.

This year, Dirk's 2nd best player, Caron Butler is out for the season but yet Dallas still are tied for 2nd. Imagine if Pau Gasol were out for the year, would LA still be second? no fucking way.

Dirk's center for his career was Eric Dampier. Did he have Shaq? did he even have an Andrew Bynum?

so if u want to debate this, u are going to have to come stronger than "oh dirk is soft and sucks" cause it simply isn't true. people forget basketball is a team game. Dirk consistently has been the only allstar on his team. Saw this stat on NBAtv the other night. over the past 3 years, with less than 30secs on the clock and shooting to tie or win the game, Kobe is 10-21, Dirk is 8-13.

people act like Dirk isn't clutch but he is. I know this much, Dirk never quit on his team like Kobe did against Phoenix in game 7.
Last year, Kobe shot 6-24 in Game 7 and WON cause he had amazing TEAMMATES. If Dirk shot 6-24 or has a bad game like Miami or Golden St, guess what, THEY LOSE!

Dirk rebounds,he passes and he shoots a super high FG percentage which makes his team better cause he doesn't ballhawk and isn't selfish.  Carmelo scores and thats it. has been out of first rd once in 7 seasons. Denver are now 9-2 without him. Knicks 7-6 with him. When Dirk injured his knee, Dallas went 2-7 without him. U do the math.

Dirk is the only player in the NBA in the top 15 in pts, FG percentage, FT percentage and 3pt percentage.

[LongGoneDay]

Nowitzki revolutionized his position. He makes his teammates better. Better post game, better passer.
Melo is a great scorer and that's about it. He has tremendous potential, but only plays one side of the ball, and 8 years in seems quite content with what he is.
Dirk has gotten better throughout the years, much more consistent.
I don't see Melo changing as long as he plays for No D Antoni. Knicks have no shot at being an elite team as long as they have the 2 highest paid defensive liabilities in the NBA playing for a coach that hasn't grasped the fact that you simply cannot expect to win in the playoffs when you religiously give up 100+ points per game.

[D]

Nowitzki revolutionized his position. He makes his teammates better. Better post game, better passer.
Melo is a great scorer and that's about it. He has tremendous potential, but only plays one side of the ball, and 8 years in seems quite content with what he is.
Dirk has gotten better throughout the years, much more consistent.
I don't see Melo changing as long as he plays for No D Antoni. Knicks have no shot at being an elite team as long as they have the 2 highest paid defensive liabilities in the NBA playing for a coach that hasn't grasped the fact that you simply cannot expect to win in the playoffs when you religiously give up 100+ points per game.

Excellent post

Dirk isn't as terrible a defender as people would like u to think. Alot of that is cause he has never had a big center backing him up.

[gnr-4-ever]

Dirk has been top 10 NBA player for the past decade, too bad the media doesn't overrate him as much as they overrate Bryant.

If Dirk was American he'd probably be lifted to the heights of Larry Bird, but yeah nothing he can do about it. It's such a shame the media controls the league and it's fans so much these days.

They overrated Kobe, made him player of the decade (no fucking way, Shaq deserves it way more than Kobe, Duncan deserves it more, even LeBron is better than Kobe but since he didn't have a superstar player besides him in the team to win the first 3 tittles for him he didn't get enough votes), started comparing him with MJ (also no fucking way in a million years, Kobe wouldn't achieve stuff MJ achieved if he played for 50 years in the league), they made people think he's clutch (yeah he is a bit clutch, but guess what Melo is more clutch but the media somehow gives the "best clutch player in the league" to Kobe for some reason). All this guy does is jack up a lot of shots, hits a couple of pointless game winners in the regular season, copies some of MJ's moves (doesn't have any moves of his own, just copies MJ) and he gets all the credit when his team wins. I'd take Pau over Kobe any day of the week, lot more efficient, better defender, helps the team in so many ways. To me Kobe isn't much better than players from the start of the past decade (Mcgrady, Carter, Iverson), he might be a better scorer than those 3 were but that's all because he had the most help of all of them during his career, not to mention the best coaching staff in the league.

[LongGoneDay]

Dirk has been top 10 NBA player for the past decade, too bad the media doesn't overrate him as much as they overrate Bryant.

If Dirk was American he'd probably be lifted to the heights of Larry Bird, but yeah nothing he can do about it. It's such a shame the media controls the league and it's fans so much these days.

They overrated Kobe, made him player of the decade (no fucking way, Shaq deserves it way more than Kobe, Duncan deserves it more, even LeBron is better than Kobe but since he didn't have a superstar player besides him in the team to win the first 3 tittles for him he didn't get enough votes), started comparing him with MJ (also no fucking way in a million years, Kobe wouldn't achieve stuff MJ achieved if he played for 50 years in the league), they made people think he's clutch (yeah he is a bit clutch, but guess what Melo is more clutch but the media somehow gives the "best clutch player in the league" to Kobe for some reason). All this guy does is jack up a lot of shots, hits a couple of pointless game winners in the regular season, copies some of MJ's moves (doesn't have any moves of his own, just copies MJ) and he gets all the credit when his team wins. I'd take Pau over Kobe any day of the week, lot more efficient, better defender, helps the team in so many ways. To me Kobe isn't much better than players from the start of the past decade (Mcgrady, Carter, Iverson), he might be a better scorer than those 3 were but that's all because he had the most help of all of them during his career, not to mention the best coaching staff in the league.

The quickest way to end a MJ/Kobe argument is to look at stats. Numbers don't lie, and Kobe isn't in MJs league. You don't have to look any further than FG%. MJ shot close to 50, and Kobe's around 45 last I checked. MJ's #s go up when it counts, postseason. Kobe's go way down. Kobe is never going to be undefeated in the Finals, or a 6 time Finals MVP. Jordan was never the second best player on his team like Kobe was before Shaq left. Jordan never let his team give up and be embarrased, blown out by 40 points to their rivals in an elimination game.

All that said, Kobe is a great player. I would take him over McGrady, Carter, Iverson in a heartbeat because although he's overrated defensively, he is far better than those three, as they don't play any defense whatsoever. Plus, can't deny Kobe's will to win. He wants it badly, and that's more than I can say for McGrady or Carter.

[gnr-4-ever]

Dirk has been top 10 NBA player for the past decade, too bad the media doesn't overrate him as much as they overrate Bryant.

If Dirk was American he'd probably be lifted to the heights of Larry Bird, but yeah nothing he can do about it. It's such a shame the media controls the league and it's fans so much these days.

They overrated Kobe, made him player of the decade (no fucking way, Shaq deserves it way more than Kobe, Duncan deserves it more, even LeBron is better than Kobe but since he didn't have a superstar player besides him in the team to win the first 3 tittles for him he didn't get enough votes), started comparing him with MJ (also no fucking way in a million years, Kobe wouldn't achieve stuff MJ achieved if he played for 50 years in the league), they made people think he's clutch (yeah he is a bit clutch, but guess what Melo is more clutch but the media somehow gives the "best clutch player in the league" to Kobe for some reason). All this guy does is jack up a lot of shots, hits a couple of pointless game winners in the regular season, copies some of MJ's moves (doesn't have any moves of his own, just copies MJ) and he gets all the credit when his team wins. I'd take Pau over Kobe any day of the week, lot more efficient, better defender, helps the team in so many ways. To me Kobe isn't much better than players from the start of the past decade (Mcgrady, Carter, Iverson), he might be a better scorer than those 3 were but that's all because he had the most help of all of them during his career, not to mention the best coaching staff in the league.

The quickest way to end a MJ/Kobe argument is to look at stats. Numbers don't lie, and Kobe isn't in MJs league. You don't have to look any further than FG%. MJ shot close to 50, and Kobe's around 45 last I checked. MJ's #s go up when it counts, postseason. Kobe's go way down. Kobe is never going to be undefeated in the Finals, or a 6 time Finals MVP. Jordan was never the second best player on his team like Kobe was before Shaq left. Jordan never let his team give up and be embarrased, blown out by 40 points to their rivals in an elimination game.

All that said, Kobe is a great player. I would take him over McGrady, Carter, Iverson in a heartbeat because although he's overrated defensively, he is far better than those three, as they don't play any defense whatsoever. Plus, can't deny Kobe's will to win. He wants it badly, and that's more than I can say for McGrady or Carter.

It's hard to compare the 3 players I've mentioned to Kobe since all 3 of them were in far worse situations than Kobe was. We can only imagine how would the Lakers be with AI (or T-mac/VC) instead of Kobe. Kobe is far more "me first" player than all 3, and by "me first" I mean he puts up shots when double or triple teamed instead of passing it to a open teammate. The problem is stats don't show that and when it's all set and done nobody debates that, they look at the stats and see him in top 6 scoring all time. Not saying that isn't a great accomplishment, but it was done with the "me first" attitude. Since Kobe had so many great teammates and coaching staff's during his career, that helps him to win 5 NBA titles which automatically makes him far better in the eyes of a "casual" supporter of the game and it somehow hides all the bad stuff he's done and still is doing when he plays. Personally I don't have anything against him, it's just that I'm fed up with people saying he can be compared to MJ (or even some are saying he's better than him, which is insane). People need to watch a lot more games to even see how some players play, but most of them are either judging them by stats or what they read in the media. Not a lot of people have their own opinion based on facts or watching games, they rather just have their brains washed by the media.

[LongGoneDay]

I hear you. If we were playing make believe, I think you could insert a bunch of players in Kobe's place(not sold on Carter or McGrady for the record though) and the Shaq era Lakers would have been just as successful. Shaq was the irreplaceable piece of that run. Of course that's just my opinion, and the fact remains that they did win, Kobe had a role in it, and played it well.

Anyone who says Kobe is better than Jordan shouldn't be allowed to watch basketball, never mind talk about it. It's really not close. At all. Hell, Phil Jackson has said as much.

Jordan was as good defensively as he was offensively. Unfortunately defense isn't as sexy, and doesn't get you on ESPN, so kids grew up idolizing MJ for his dunks, clutch shots and didn't really see that his D had just as much to do with his success(Carmelo an obvious example).

There is no shortage of selfish superstars in the NBA, but Kobe has backed it up with wins. Granted, his teammates have bailed him out on multiple occasions, but he's not the slouch some of the others are. You watch a guy like Carmelo, who in my opinion is light years ahead of Kobe as far as talent, and ability to score goes, but Carmelo is a loser in the NBA up to this point. He can light it up as well if not better than anyone, but when you are essentially ushering in your opponents on the other end, what's it good for? Kobe plays both ends, he wants to win, and does everything in his power to do so. Sometimes it's his weakness as he goes to Kobedar and tries to go 1 against 5, but compare that to others who flat out refuse to put the effort into stopping the other team. There is nothing more boring to me than to watch a basketball game with no D.

[LongGoneDay]

Some other knocks on Kobe is that he ran Shaq out of town, and tried to convince management to trade Bynum as well.
I don't see him making a good GM.

[crow316]

Kobe didnt "run Shaq out of town."  Thats old.  It was Shaqs antics (demanding money, coming in out of shape, etc.) and inability to realize he wasnt top dog.  Shaq DEMANDED a trade when Phil Jackson was told he wouldnt be back.   The whole argument about Kobe playing second fiddle to Shaq during their title runs, and doesnt deserve credit for his first three rings is a joke.  Shaq came to the Lakers and didnt win a title until Kobe became a starter.  The fact that the team was dismantled and rebuilt around Kobe, and he has won titles again is even more proof.