West Memphis Three

[killingvector]

killingvector - thanks for the information. you seem to have done some significant research on this case.


1. what are the 2 or 3 most significant facts about this case that could lead someone to believe that the right people were found guilty of these crimes?

2. is it true that the parents of the victims now believe that the 3 individuals convicted are actually innocent?

The most significant evidence of the case were the three confessions of Jesse Misskelly, two were given to police when he was brought into for an interview and one was given AFTER he was convicted as he was transported from the courthouse to the county jail. The later was of particular substance because the deputies informed the DA and Jesse's lawyer, Dan Stidham, of the comments. Stidham sat alone with his client for 30 minutes imploring Jesse not to make the statement. Jesse refused. It has since leaked that Jesse even swore on a bible before his lawyer that he was involved in the crime.

After the meeting with Stidham, who was shaking his head in exasperation after the conversation, Jesse outlined to the DA the crime. He told the authorities that he had held one of the boys during the killing, even chasing him down when he tried to run. He detailed the activities of Damien and Jason who sodomized two of the boys and forced them to perform oral sex by holding them by the ears. He described the genital mutilation of Christopher Byers with a knife that Jason had brought to the scene.

To provide corroborative evidence, Jesse told the DA that he was drinking during the crime and threw an Evan Williams whiskey bottle under the underpass which lay on the edge of the Robin Hood Hills forest. The DA, police, and Dan Stidham went to the crime scene after the statement and recovered a broken bottle top in the location where Jesse said he threw it. The bottle top was matched definitively to an Evan Williams whiskey bottle.

Misskelly offered corroborative evidence in another form: When Melissa Byers, mother of murdered eight year old Christopher Byers, took the stand, she told the jury that her deceased son was frightened one day (before the murders) by a man with long black hair and wearing all black clothes who had driven up to their house. The man jumped out of a green car and took a picture of the the young Byers. Misskelly mentioned in one of his first confessions that Damien had pictures of the three boys in a briefcase he brought to the group's occult meetings. Misskelly had identified Christopher Byers as the being in one of the pictures.

Supporters argue that the first two confessions were coerced, this was brought up at trial and ultimately rejected by the jury. A detailed timeline of the confession demonstrates that although Misskelly was in custody from mid morning on, he was fed, given a Coke to drink during the tape recorded confession, and allowed to meet with his father. Supporters also argue that Misskelly was wrong about several details of the crime in his confession: this is true of the first confession in which Misskelly indicated the crime took place at noon instead of dusk. However, in the follow up interview, Misskelly corrected the timing issue, even telling police he didn't wear a watch was unclear what time it was. Later, in his third interview, Misskelly told authorities he purposefully gave false information to the police to throw them off and lessen his role in the crime.

In addition to the three Misskelly confessions, Jason and Damien have made incriminating statements both before and after their arrest. Jason made a jail house confession to an inmate which has been challenged for its veracity but the details in the confession were of significant value. Damien bragged to several individuals that he had chosen three boys to kill and later that he had done it. I personally find these confessions to be of less value than the Misskelly confessions simply because the witnesses were not as reliable.

The DNA and fiber evidence is enlightening as well. Blood of Misskelly's shirt and Echols necklace fit the profile of both accused and the victim. In fact, dozens of pieces of DNA evidence collected at the scene could not exclude the three convictees from being at the scene. In addition, several microscopic fibers on the clothing of the young boys was found to be microscopically indistinguishable to those found at the homes of Echols and Baldwin.

2. John Mark Byers switched sides during the past couple of years, but anyone familiar with the Paradise Lost documentaries realize just what a publicity seeking idiot Byers really is. He outright accused Terry Hobbs of murder, despite the fact that his own trial testimony indicated that Hobbs gave a statement to police shortly before nine. As I mentioned before, Hobbs left work at 4:30pm, drove his wife to work, then was responsible for watching the couple's four year daughter until 9:20pm when he went to get his wife.

Pam Hobbs gave a statement in support of the 3 after a bitter divorce from Terry Hobbs, even accusing him of being involved in Stevie Branch's murder. She then tried to reconcile with him after this time, but Terry would have nothing to do with her. In lieu of her behavior, her statements are generally regarded by rational people (non-wm3.org propagandists) as the bitter attack of a scorned ex-wife. 

[D]

I believe they are guilty. people are saying cause someone is "slow" t hey can't tell the truth.

I never believe anything in docs whether its Michael Moore or this cause they put half truths in to make their lies seem true also.

I just can't see one guy being able to kill 3 kids without one getting away.

[AxlsMainMan]

All over the map? He insisted the WM3 were guilty for like 14 years, and then read the ?evidence? the prosecution had submitted for the first time in a calm and rational manner and realized it simply did not add up and that there was no way the WM3 were the killers of his son.
Nice that he?s a ?dullard? though and Terry Hobbs is just misunderstood.

Byers used to hang out with the Paradise Lost filmmakers outside the courtroom hoping they would focus on him. This is especially evident during several awkward exchanges between Saul, Mara, and Mark after the former two had indirectly accused him of lying about his teeth. He was a common fixture on the talk show circuit, from Court TV to Jenny Jones; the man lived for the publicity.
And all over the map, well, I consider a complete reversal based on false evidence to showcase the mind of a very confused individual.

How convenient that the evidence is false to you but wholly acceptable to one the victim's parents. He must be "confused." Did your occult expert with the mail-order PhD give you that diagnosis?

Pam and Terry Hobbs had a bitter divorce, after which she made her comments. Since that time, she attempted to reconcile with Terry who smartly rebuffed her advances. If she truly believed what she said, I highly doubt she would have tried to come back to Terry.

I?ve always heard of their relationship as being extremely odd to say the least, and she?s always said she doesn?t really know what happened and has been open to other plausible theories about what happened to her son. I know if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the WM3 were the perpetrators, I wouldn?t be saying I don?t know what happened.

Pam made her comments out of anger to Terry when the pair were split. There is no doubt about that. The fact that she tried to reconcile is proof enough that her accusation did not carry much more weight than an attempt to hurt someone she once love.

Not much weight? The man's DNA was found in the bindings used to tie the children up. You don't even have that with regard to the WM3. All you have is a bunch of "can't be excluded" verdicts.

How convenient that no DNA evidence can link the WM3 to the crime since they were submerged in water, and yet a piece of Terry Hobb?s DNA is found clear as day in the very bindings used to tie up the kids.

Of course you?re going to say that could have come from the boys playing at the Hobbs residence, but than any traces which could not exclude the WM3 from the crime could just as easily be explained as having been transferred on school grounds.

You think a four year old is a watertight alibi? I?d say extremely convenient, but that?s just me.

I guess then the four year was either an eyewitness or conspirator to murder then. LOL.

Where did I say she was a conspirator? If she was an eyewitness, would she even remember a thing is the million dollar question. I know I sure as hell remember next to nothing from when I was 4. How much do you remember?

The point being that typically a 4 year old is not a terribly convincing alibi. They're easily coerced. Maybe if the police had interviewed Terry Hobbs after the bodies were found he could have come up with something better, but of course, the Hobbs residence was the only house not searched, and Terry Hobbs was the only parent not thoroughly interrogated.

4 year-old aside, Terry still can't explain away his own best friend saying he was with Terry in the woods where the boys were found around an hour before the murders are said to have taken place. He must be a bitter ex like Pam Hobbs too right, or a confused "dullard" like Mark Byers?

If Jessie?s original confession is so damning, how come only 46 minutes out of 12 hours has only been leaked? What?s transpires on the other 11 hours and 15 minutes? The thing is one doesn?t even need the rest of the tape to realize Miskelley is being lead by the police. I only took one year of law, and even that?s clear as day for anyone who listens to the tape without having already decided they?re guilty.

I love how you instruct us to disregard his last 2 confessions though. That fits in so well with the mix-and-match nature of the supporters of the prosecution. Believe this expert, but not the one with the mail-order PhD. Believe this confession, not that one even though both were introduced at trial.

[killingvector]

All over the map? He insisted the WM3 were guilty for like 14 years, and then read the ?evidence? the prosecution had submitted for the first time in a calm and rational manner and realized it simply did not add up and that there was no way the WM3 were the killers of his son.
Nice that he?s a ?dullard? though and Terry Hobbs is just misunderstood.

Byers used to hang out with the Paradise Lost filmmakers outside the courtroom hoping they would focus on him. This is especially evident during several awkward exchanges between Saul, Mara, and Mark after the former two had indirectly accused him of lying about his teeth. He was a common fixture on the talk show circuit, from Court TV to Jenny Jones; the man lived for the publicity.
And all over the map, well, I consider a complete reversal based on false evidence to showcase the mind of a very confused individual.

How convenient that the evidence is false to you but wholly acceptable to one the victim's parents. He must be "confused." Did your occult expert with the mail-order PhD give you that diagnosis?

Hobbs lived in the same house as victim Stevie Branch. Secondary transfer of hair and fibers from a place of residence is very common. If you recall, a negroid hair was found on Chris Byers, but it was determined to have been transferred from a morque sheet placed over Byers body.

Not much weight? The man's DNA was found in the bindings used to tie the children up. You don't even have that with regard to the WM3. All you have is a bunch of "can't be excluded" verdicts.

How convenient that no DNA evidence can link the WM3 to the crime since they were submerged in water, and yet a piece of Terry Hobb?s DNA is found clear as day in the very bindings used to tie up the kids.

Of course you?re going to say that could have come from the boys playing at the Hobbs residence, but than any traces which could not exclude the WM3 from the crime could just as easily be explained as having been transferred on school grounds.

First, not to split hairs (no pun intended), the hair was not a positive match to Hobbs. The DNA matched his and thousands of other males profiles in the West Memphis area. It was consistent with his DNA.

The fact that Hobbs lived with his step son is highly suggestive that the hair was brought to the crime scene via secondary transfer.

If Jessie?s original confession is so damning, how come only 46 minutes out of 12 hours has only been leaked? What?s transpires on the other 11 hours and 15 minutes? The thing is one doesn?t even need the rest of the tape to realize Miskelley is being lead by the police. I only took one year of law, and even that?s clear as day for anyone who listens to the tape without having already decided they?re guilty.

The police recorded Misskelly's second confession after he made his initial statement of guilt. The police had no idea Misskelly was going to confess, but once he started talking, they let him go. The tape recorder was then brought in to record the 46 minute confession. After that point, he was placed under arrest, given a meal, and allowed to meet with his father.

4 year-old aside, Terry still can't explain away his own best friend saying he was with Terry in the woods where the boys were found around an hour before the murders are said to have taken place. He must be a bitter ex like Pam Hobbs too right, or a confused "dullard" like Mark Byers?

LOL. I guess you don't have children. Find the babysitter for Hobbs' four year old and you have circumstantial evidence that Hobbs could have been at the crime scene. The fact that he was watching his daughter from 4:30 until he was interviewed by police shortly before 9 then participated in the search for the boys after picking up his wife at work is a pretty reliable alibi in absence of a witness who took saw Terry's daughter with someone else.

The point being that typically a 4 year old is not a terribly convincing alibi. They're easily coerced. Maybe if the police had interviewed Terry Hobbs after the bodies were found he could have come up with something better, but of course, the Hobbs residence was the only house not searched, and Terry Hobbs was the only parent not thoroughly interrogated.

Are you being serious, now? Hobbs was interviewed by police shortly before 9pm on the night of the murders. I don't get your point about the four year old. Where exactly do you think this child was when Terry was supposedly committing this crime?

Sorry, friend, but you really have no evidence the man was at the crime scene. Even the hair is very suspect since he lived in the same house as the victim.

I love how you instruct us to disregard his last 2 confessions though. That fits in so well with the mix-and-match nature of the supporters of the prosecution. Believe this expert, but not the one with the mail-order PhD. Believe this confession, not that one even though both were introduced at trial.

The occult expert's testimony was not convincing. But it didn't have to be. The three killers were young adults in their late teens to early twenties who were experimenting with the occult and satanic worship. They were not experts in the occult and, as such, it really should not be viewed as a satanic killing or occult crime.

How convenient that no DNA evidence can link the WM3 to the crime since they were submerged in water, and yet a piece of Terry Hobb?s DNA is found clear as day in the very bindings used to tie up the kids.

If one of the 3 lived in the same house as one or more of the victims, it would also not be significant.

But the DNA evidence was very compelling because it couldn't exclude the 3 from the crime scene. Baldwin and Misskelly shared many of the same HLA DQalpha allelle profile as the victims, as such the forensic scientists were unable to determine if the source was one of the 3 or one of the victims. In particular, blood on Echols necklace was consistent with Baldwin or Stevie Moore. Blood on Jesse Misskelly's shirt was consistent with Misskelly or Michael Moore.

Name/sample          HLA DQalpha alleles    Frequency*     by Genetic Designs
    Chris Byers                      1.1, 4                      3.8%                     9.2%
    Michael Moore                4, 4                         7.9%                     7.2%
    Steve Branch                  1.2, 4                       5.8%                             
    T-shirt                              4, 4                         7.9%                     7.2%
    Knife                               1.1, 4                       3.8%                     9.2%
    Pendant                          1.2, 4                       5.8%
    Damien Echols                2, 3                          2.5% 
    Jason Baldwin                1.2, 4                       5.8%                               
    Jessie Misskelley            4, 4                          7.9%                     7.2%
    John Mark Byers             1.1, 4                       3.8%                     9.2%
    Melissa Byers                  1.1, 3                       2.5%
    Ryan Clark                      1.1, 3                       2.5%

As you can see Moore and Misskelly had the same allelle profile as did Baldwin and Branch. I hate to say this, but the DNA was a big no result for the WM3. They couldn't be excluded from the crime scene. 

[AxlsMainMan]

First, not to split hairs (no pun intended), the hair was not a positive match to Hobbs. The DNA matched his and thousands of other males profiles in the West Memphis area. It was consistent with his DNA.

The fact that Hobbs lived with his step son is highly suggestive that the hair was brought to the crime scene via secondary transfer.

Suggestive, but not conclusive.

The police recorded Misskelly's second confession after he made his initial statement of guilt. The police had no idea Misskelly was going to confess, but once he started talking, they let him go. The tape recorder was then brought in to record the 46 minute confession. After that point, he was placed under arrest, given a meal, and allowed to meet with his father.

This of course is the same confession that was barred from being admitted to Damien and Jason?s trial and yet several jurors would later claim it was the smoking gun for them which ultimately forced them to return a guilty verdict.

The same jury with the head juror whose documented as having said he was going to personally see to it a guilty verdict was returned.

Both textbook examples of grounds for a mistrial, or at the very least, a new trial.

LOL. I guess you don't have children. Find the babysitter for Hobbs' four year old and you have circumstantial evidence that Hobbs could have been at the crime scene. The fact that he was watching his daughter from 4:30 until he was interviewed by police shortly before 9 then participated in the search for the boys after picking up his wife at work is a pretty reliable alibi in absence of a witness who took saw Terry's daughter with someone else.

Who says there has to be a babysitter? Terry Hobbs even admitted to 48 Hours that he?d beat Stevie quite regularly so to automatically assume he?s responsible enough to place the 4 year old in the protection of a competent babysitter is no guarantee.

Like I said in my early post as well, Terry Hobbs best friend David Jacoby says he was with Terry Hobbs in the woods near the crime scene around an hour before the crime is said to have taken place, so even if his daughter wasn?t with someone else, according to David, she sure wasn?t with Terry that entire afternoon/evening.

Are you being serious, now? Hobbs was interviewed by police shortly before 9pm on the night of the murders. I don't get your point about the four year old. Where exactly do you think this child was when Terry was supposedly committing this crime?

Interviewed, but not extensively interrogated. That didn?t come until his DNA was found in the bindings 3 years ago or so. And once again, the Hobbs residence was the only house never searched by police.

The 4 year old could have been doing an innumerable amount of things: watching TV, sleeping, who cares. Has this 4 year old ever commented on the night in question? I can?t recall reading that.

Sorry, friend, but you really have no evidence the man was at the crime scene. Even the hair is very suspect since he lived in the same house as the victim.

How convenient. That?s essentially an alibi within itself. Even if any DNA were to be found on the boys, Terry can always claim secondary transfer.

The occult expert's testimony was not convincing. But it didn't have to be. The three killers were young adults in their late teens to early twenties who were experimenting with the occult and satanic worship. They were not experts in the occult and, as such, it really should not be viewed as a satanic killing or occult crime.

You think Wicca consists of satanic worship? It?s essentially the worship of nature and life last I checked.

Slightly ironic that you say it should not be viewed as a satanic killing, and yet that?s exactly the approach both the media and the prosecution took.

But the DNA evidence was very compelling because it couldn't exclude the 3 from the crime scene. Baldwin and Misskelly shared many of the same HLA DQalpha allelle profile as the victims, as such the forensic scientists were unable to determine if the source was one of the 3 or one of the victims.

I?m no expert at biology by any means, but what you?re ultimately saying is that while they couldn?t be ruled out from the crime scene, they also couldn?t be beyond a shadow of a doubt confirmed as actually having been at the crime scene?

Not really a smoking gun for the prosecution or even close to being grounds for delivering the death penalty, at least in my opinion.

I hate to say this, but the DNA was a big no result for the WM3. They couldn't be excluded from the crime scene. 

I wonder if Mr. Bojangles could have been excluded from the crime scene. You know, the black dude who was seen by several witnesses at a dinner just a couple miles from the crime scene less than an hour after it happened. He was seen drenched in blood and locked himself in the bathroom before ultimately escaping.

Of course the good ol? West Memphis Police didn?t even bother investigating until the following morning, and all the DNA evidence they collected was conveniently lost by them

[sandman]

killingvector - thanks for all the information!

i've done a good amount of reading. the arguments are focused around 2 seperate issues:

1. whether the 3 convicted torturers/killers are actually guilty or not.
2. whether the trial was "fair" and/or was was actually enough evidence to convict.

i'm not sure what to think, but i'm leaning towards thinking the right people are in jail.

the confession is suspect. there was a high profile case in CA where a boy "admitted" killing his sister, but DNA evidence proved he didn't. just a crazy phenomenon where young people feel they have to give adults what they want to hear, no matter what the consequences.

but there is other evidence. and i'd like to find more about Jessie's post-trial confession where he said he just wants to get the truth out; specifically, what was said and when he said it.

also, Echols wasn't some nice, confused boy who was a suspect because of metallica t-shirts. someone who does all of this is crazy:

*Stay in a mental hospital, where a doctor listed ?extreme physical aggression towards others? as one of the problems.
*Threaten to attack their parents.
*Tell a therapist that drinking blood gives them power.
*Suck the blood out of a wound in front of detention officials
*Kill and mutilate a dog (this is supported by police reports from both an eyewitness to the mutilation and someone who found the dog's corpse. A dog's skull was also found in Damien's room after his arrest).
*Receive full disability from the government for mental problems.

[killingvector]

Suggestive, but not conclusive.

Suggestive that it could be Hobbs' hair or some thousands of others who share the same partial allelle profile. But being that Hobbs lived in the same house as Stevie Branch, it is probable that the hair was brought to the crime scene via secondary transfer.

This of course is the same confession that was barred from being admitted to Damien and Jason?s trial and yet several jurors would later claim it was the smoking gun for them which ultimately forced them to return a guilty verdict.

The same jury with the head juror whose documented as having said he was going to personally see to it a guilty verdict was returned.

Both textbook examples of grounds for a mistrial, or at the very least, a new trial.

The jurors made a chart of evidence for and against; the Misskelly confession was written on the list then crossed out. The court has already ruled that the mention of the confession did not contaminate the jury.

The reason the confession was not allowed into the trial was because Misskelly refused to testify against Echols and Baldwin; therefore the defense had no leeway to attack the statement. Burnett wisely disallowed any mention of the confession although it was mentioned by one witness. Burnett immediately struck that comment from the record.

These type of problems happen in many trials and mistrials are not declared.

Who says there has to be a babysitter? Terry Hobbs even admitted to 48 Hours that he?d beat Stevie quite regularly so to automatically assume he?s responsible enough to place the 4 year old in the protection of a competent babysitter is no guarantee.

Like I said in my early post as well, Terry Hobbs best friend David Jacoby says he was with Terry Hobbs in the woods near the crime scene around an hour before the crime is said to have taken place, so even if his daughter wasn?t with someone else, according to David, she sure wasn?t with Terry that entire afternoon/evening.

I disagree with your later statement. Hobbs and Jacoby were searching for the kids for an hour before the police took Hobbs statement. Hobbs arrived at RHH in the dark after this time, without Jacoby, but did not reach the ditch.

Mr. Jacoby stated that at about 5 p.m. on May 5, 1993, Terry Hobbs had come to Mr. Jacoby's nearby residence in West Memphis, Arkansas, with his daughter, Amanda; that Mr. Hobbs had left at about 6 or 6:30 p.m.; that he (Mr. Jacoby) could not recall whether Amanda had gone with Mr. Hobbs when he left at that time; and that Mr. Hobbs had returned to the Jacoby residence after about an hour, i.e., at about 7 or 7:30 p.m.  Mr. Jacoby also stated that at this time, he accompanied Mr. Hobbs to search for Steven Branch, and that at one point they had walked to a bridge over the big bayou just south of the ten mile bayou and looked around.  [Exhibit X.  Declaration of Rachael Geiser.]

Mark Byers said that Terry Hobbs had contacted Dana Moore earlier that evening and said he had been searching since early on.  From the context, the following account would have taken place at the time of Officer Meek's visit at 8:30 p.m.

So then, the police officer, if I'm not mistaken, asked Dana, you know, how long have you been looking for your little boy. And she told her, you know, well, for the last hour and a half. And she said the Branch, uh, Stevie Branch, which his, you know, Mr. Hobbs, she said, Terry, which is Stevie's daddy has been looking for his since about 5 o'clock. 4:30, 5 o'clock. [John Mark Byers, May 19, 1993 interview]

Mr. Hobbs described, among other things, how he and his then four year old daughter Amanda had searched in his West Memphis neighborhood for Mr. Hobbs' stepson, Steven, during the late afternoon and evening hours of May 5, 1993.  Mr. Hobbs stated that he had also searched for Steven that night with David Jacoby and Pam Hobbs' father, Jackie Hicks, Sr.; that during that period they gone into the area known as Robin Hood Hills; and that at one point Mr. Hobbs (unaccompanied by Mr. Jacoby or Mr. Hicks) had approached, but not arrived at, the ditch where the bodies of the victims were later found.    [Exhibit X.  Declaration of Rachael Geiser.]

Again, Hobbs had Amanda while actively searching for his son as early as 4:30/5pm. He may have left her with Jacoby's wife when the two went out to search as early as 8pm. But he was interviewed by police shortly before nine indicating that he was in the neighborhood for that period of time. Only when the sun set did he fan out and look in the RHH area.

Your Jacoby quote is out of context and suggestive of guilt.

Are you being serious, now? Hobbs was interviewed by police shortly before 9pm on the night of the murders. I don't get your point about the four year old. Where exactly do you think this child was when Terry was supposedly committing this crime?

Interviewed, but not extensively interrogated. That didn?t come until his DNA was found in the bindings 3 years ago or so. And once again, the Hobbs residence was the only house never searched by police.

The 4 year old could have been doing an innumerable amount of things: watching TV, sleeping, who cares. Has this 4 year old ever commented on the night in question? I can?t recall reading that.

Why would he be interrogated? He was not a suspect at that time. The police had not even known a crime was committed. Hobbs was interviewed later by police after the DNA results.

The four year old was not left alone at any point in that evening. Sorry.

Sorry, friend, but you really have no evidence the man was at the crime scene. Even the hair is very suspect since he lived in the same house as the victim.

How convenient. That?s essentially an alibi within itself. Even if any DNA were to be found on the boys, Terry can always claim secondary transfer.

LOL. I understand you are looking for any avenue of innocence but your statement is ridiculous. Secondary transfer of fibers and hairs from home is a very common form of contamination of a crime scene.

The occult expert's testimony was not convincing. But it didn't have to be. The three killers were young adults in their late teens to early twenties who were experimenting with the occult and satanic worship. They were not experts in the occult and, as such, it really should not be viewed as a satanic killing or occult crime.

You think Wicca consists of satanic worship? It?s essentially the worship of nature and life last I checked.

LOL. Make no mistake about it. The three kids were dabbling in satanic worship. They were dabbling in the black magic of Aleister Crowley and much harder stuff.

Slightly ironic that you say it should not be viewed as a satanic killing, and yet that?s exactly the approach both the media and the prosecution took.

The media seeks to be provocative. The prosecution presented evidence that the kids were dabbling in the occult. Echols lied his ass off on the stand in his denial and the jury knew it.

But the DNA evidence was very compelling because it couldn't exclude the 3 from the crime scene. Baldwin and Misskelly shared many of the same HLA DQalpha allelle profile as the victims, as such the forensic scientists were unable to determine if the source was one of the 3 or one of the victims.

I?m no expert at biology by any means, but what you?re ultimately saying is that while they couldn?t be ruled out from the crime scene, they also couldn?t be beyond a shadow of a doubt confirmed as actually having been at the crime scene?

Not really a smoking gun for the prosecution or even close to being grounds for delivering the death penalty, at least in my opinion.

The DNA evidence was part of the appellate motion. The 3 had to prove actual innocence in order to get a new trial; the DNA could not exclude them from the crime scene, therefore, they could not prove they were innocent of the crime through this 'new' evidence.  The convictions stand.

I hate to say this, but the DNA was a big no result for the WM3. They couldn't be excluded from the crime scene. 

I wonder if Mr. Bojangles could have been excluded from the crime scene. You know, the black dude who was seen by several witnesses at a dinner just a couple miles from the crime scene less than an hour after it happened. He was seen drenched in blood and locked himself in the bathroom before ultimately escaping.

Maybe he was with John Byers or Terry Hobbs before visiting that Bojangles.

[D]

The Bojangles angle is very interesting i will admit. once again though, three kids, 1 guy....... i just don't see how 1 guy could simultaneously kill three kids without one getting away.

the three on three math is pretty damning.

[AxlsMainMan]

The jurors made a chart of evidence for and against; the Misskelly confession was written on the list then crossed out.

The fact that the confession was even written on the list in the first place despite being not admitted to the trial alone is a glaring symtom of juror contamination.

He may have left her with Jacoby's wife when the two went out to search as early as 8pm.

Or even earlier..

Mr. Hobbs had left at about 6 or 6:30 p.m.; that he (Mr. Jacoby) could not recall whether Amanda had gone with Mr. Hobbs when he left at that time

Why would he be interrogated? He was not a suspect at that time. The police had not even known a crime was committed. Hobbs was interviewed later by police after the DNA results.

The four year old was not left alone at any point in that evening. Sorry.

Because when a child goes missing, often the are, or are supposed to be the immediate suspects police are supposed to throroughly question.

LOL. I understand you are looking for any avenue of innocence but your statement is ridiculous. Secondary transfer of fibers and hairs from home is a very common form of contamination of a crime scene.

A very common form of contamination which Hobbs could have been banking on.

LOL. Make no mistake about it. The three kids were dabbling in satanic worship. They were dabbling in the black magic of Aleister Crowley and much harder stuff.

LOL is right.

He [Aleister] "was in revolt against the moral and religious values of his time"

In 2002, a BBC poll described Crowley as being the seventy-third greatest Briton of all time, whilst he has influenced and been referenced to by numerous writers, musicians and filmmakers including Alan Moore, Ozzy Osbourne, Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Kenneth Anger, Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, Danny Carey and Harry Everett Smith. He has also been cited as a key influence on many later esoteric groups and individuals, including figures like Kenneth Grant, Gerald Gardner, and to some degree Austin Osman Spare.

What a despicable human being.

Maybe he was with John Byers or Terry Hobbs before visiting that Bojangles.

Yes, let's not touch on the police incompetence in persuing that lead. Or as I mentioned earlier the head juror saying a guilty verdict would be secured no matter what

[AxlsMainMan]

The Bojangles angle is very interesting i will admit. once again though, three kids, 1 guy....... i just don't see how 1 guy could simultaneously kill three kids without one getting away.

the three on three math is pretty damning.

These are 3 little kids though. I'm sure you could take 3 little sprouts if you had too.

[D]

did they not question jacoby's wife?

seems pretty slam dunk.. if she said she babysat or not.

it all goes back to two things imo

which seems more realistic

1.Hobbs sat his 4year old in front of the TV or knocked her out with nyquil while he went and committed the murders. had his teeth removed *which holy fuck seems damning*

2. misskelly was coerced and scared into giving a false confession.. if a cop tells u they have evidence u did it and there is on way u can prove your innocence and if u cooperate u will live if not u will be on death row... i could see misskelly telling the cops what they wanted to here.

OR maybe Misskelly was being honest and they did commit the crimes. was there any evidence of sexual abuse? did he not say they made the boys perform oral sex?


The Bojangles thing........ i don't know.. maybe he got into a fight or something, did they specify exactly what their translation of being covered in blood was?

[MrMojoRa]

Impressive knowledge of the case killingvector. You'd make a great attorney. Hopefully you picked a more respectable and fulfilling career. If you are an attorney, I'm kidding....mostly.

Piss pour police work leads to doubt in regards to the strength of such cases. Sounds like the local department should have sought help from those who were more experienced. Outside help that is. That type of stuff happens all the time in the "land of inflated egos" (i.e. law enforcement).

Proper processing of crime scenes is CRUCIAL. What a detective does for the limited time working at a scene gets viewed through a microscope for years to come.

The celebrity connection to such dramas is tiresome though. The Abu-Jamal case comes to mind. A man who is beyond a reasonable doubt guilty of killing a Philly cop, yet some celebrities and bands make his defense their main purpose.

[killingvector]

The fact that the confession was even written on the list in the first place despite being not admitted to the trial alone is a glaring symtom of juror contamination.

The biggest load of contamination were the lies told by Damien Echols on the stand and the parade of witnesses who heard Baldwin and Echols admit to killing the kids.

Misskelly's three confessions was the lynch pin if you are looking to answer the question of absolute guilt or innocence. He knew details of the crime known only to police and even details the police didn't know.

Or even earlier..

You are quite the cherry picker of data. Ignore the fibers, the lack of exclusion of DNA, the nine confessions in the case, the corroboration from Misskelly AFTER his conviction....it's all a big conspiracy to protect little old Terry Hobbs.

LOL.

Because when a child goes missing, often the are, or are supposed to be the immediate suspects police are supposed to throroughly question.

Certainly you know the difference between interview and interrogation.

A very common form of contamination which Hobbs could have been banking on.

Dear god, are you actually making the case that Hobbs banked that a single strand of DNA would not be enough to convict him despite the fact that the discovery of the victim's blood on his clothes, his footprints at the scene, or the even the murder weapon in his house/car would put him on death row?

This has to be the most ridiculous argument ever made by a supporter.

es, let's not touch on the police incompetence in persuing that lead. Or as I mentioned earlier the head juror saying a guilty verdict would be secured no matter what

The state supreme court ruled on the motion of juror contamination. They found that there insufficient evidence that it had any effect on the verdict. Sorry, but the appeals process takes these motions very seriously and they were found without merit.

[killingvector]

2. misskelly was coerced and scared into giving a false confession.. if a cop tells u they have evidence u did it and there is on way u can prove your innocence and if u cooperate u will live if not u will be on death row... i could see misskelly telling the cops what they wanted to here.

OR maybe Misskelly was being honest and they did commit the crimes. was there any evidence of sexual abuse? did he not say they made the boys perform oral sex?

Let's review what Misskelly told police.

Pre-arrest statements: Confession#1

When Misskelly was first brought to the police station for his interview, Detectives Gitchell and Ridge showed Misskelly a picture of Christopher Byers.

RIDGE: He grabbed the picture, he set back in his seat, he became fixated on this picture, he just, just had it in his hand, you could tell he, it was tense, he just intently looked at this picture.

FOGLEMAN: And then what happened?

RIDGE: He wasn't answering any more questions, he just, like he was so fixated on the picture that he wouldn't, he wasn't talking, wasn't saying anything just looking at the picture. We had to physically take the picture away from him or just pull it out of his hands. And laid it down on the desk and he just continued to look at the picture.

Misskelly was played an audio recording of a classmate of the slain.


RIDGE: Okay. We had just played this tape, and Jessie says something to the effect that uh, I want out of this, I want to tell you everything, at which time we started asking him some more questions.


In the course of his two confessions, Jesse provided details not known to the public:

1. That Christopher Byers was the only boy who had his genitals mutilated. A report leaked in the press that all 3 had their genitals mutilated but it was not true. Jesse identified which boy had his scrotum cut from his body.
2. Jesse identified two of the boys who were sodomized: Michael Moore and Stevie Branch. The DA determined there was injury to the anus but not severe injury on the walls of the anus, injuries that could be consistent with sodomy. Both Moore and Branch had these injuries.
3. He indicated that Damien and Jason held the boys by the head and ears so that they could perform oral sex. ME Peretti determined that there was severe bruising on the ears, lips, and mouth; in his opinion this was suggestive of forced oral sex. Jesse hit this fact right on the head.
4. Jesse identified that the boys were tied hand to foot with brown rope. As it turns out, the boys were hogtied hand to foot with their shoelaces which were dark brown color.







In his post conviction interview with police, the DA, and his lawyer, Jesse completely fessed up to his involvement:
Transcript from 2-22-93 post verdict proceedings:

Prosecutor Davis:
It was our information that on the way down to the Department of Corrections on Friday, that he had spoken, talked continuously for a period of two to three hours, however long it took to get there, describing his involvement and even indicating to the officers that he was not shocked by what the jury did because he basically deserved the punishment he received.  He talked constantly about what -- his involvement in the case.  The officers advised me of that information and that's when I contacted Dan

[001299]


Stidham to see if we should go down there to discuss his client's options and if he did in fact want to testify.

We then rode down to the Department of Corrections on Tuesday.  Mr. Stidham rode with me.  Mr. Fogleman and Mr. Gitchell met us at Brinkley, and we went to Pine Bluff.  At that time, Mr. Stidham talked with him for approximately ten or fifteen minutes, at which point he came out of the room, grabbed a Bible. went back in and -- this is my personal observation -- but approximately 30 to 45 minutes later Mr. Stidham exited.  He was very upset, unnerved, just kept mumbling things -- "I don't know what I'm supposed to do now.  I don't know what to do now."

And after thirty minutes of conversation, it became apparent at that point that his client had indicated that he was involved in the murders and had in fact witnessed and played a part in the murders.

Mr. Stidham then went back into the room, at which time he did not allow us, nor did we request or insist on having contact with his client.  He went back inside and talked for another hour and came back and to paraphrase indicated that his client's story matched with the facts much better and there were a

[001300]


few things we needed to do to be able to corroborate his statement.

At that point we got in our vehicles, and one of the things to corroborate his client's statement was to determine if there was an Evan Williams whiskey bottle under an overpass in West Memphis.

To quote Mr. Stidham, I believe at that time, "If we can find a bottle like he says, then that will convince me that it happened."  At 9:30 or 10:00 at night we drive -- ten o'clock in the evening -- we proceed, the four of us, to roam underneath the overpasses of West Memphis and lo and behold find a broken bottle in the location indicated by his client.

We then take the bottle to a local liquor store where we proceeded to spend the better part of an hour matching the bottle with certain items, and lo and behold it matches with the brand name bottle Mr. Stidham had indicated that we should be looking for in the first place.

At that point Mr. Stidham says that wasn't good enough to convince him.  Additional efforts were made.  He then -- there was a week hiatus where there was no contact apparently.

[killingvector]

1.Hobbs sat his 4year old in front of the TV or knocked her out with nyquil while he went and committed the murders. had his teeth removed *which holy fuck seems damning*

John Mark Byers, stepfather of Chris Byers, was the individual who lost his front teeth. Not Terry Hobbs.  Byers was initially the target of the WM3 movement but has since been ignored as a suspect. After the Bojangles guy and before the Alligator snapping turtles.

Hobbs' movements before the crime was believed to be committed are well documented.

[axlrosegnr]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40007255/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Court orders new hearing over murders of three 8-year-old scouts

[Gunner80]

they're as guilty as OJ Simpson.

[axlrosegnr]

Hell Yeah!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/west-memphis-free-18-years-murder-charge/story?id=14340244

The 18-year ordeal of the so-called West Memphis Three ended today in an Arkansas courtroom after a judge accepted a plea deal to set them free.

The three men will be allowed to maintain their innocence while acknowledging that prosecutors have enough evidence to convict them, according to the Associated Press.

It is a legal maneuver that would allow the men to leave prison for the first time in more than a dozen years. They have always maintained their innocence.

Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley Jr. were convicted in the 1993 deaths of three 8-year-old boys from West Memphis, Ark.

The victims -- Christopher Byers, Steven Branch and James Michael Moore -- were found naked, beaten and hogtied in a drainage ditch. They had been sexually abused and one of the boys had been partially castrated. Echols, who was 19 at the time, was considered the mastermind and given the death penalty.

Baldwin, 16 at the time, and Misskelley, 17, were sentenced to life in prison, plus 40 years. The prosecution had claimed the murders were part of a satanic ritual. Police officers also extracted a confession from Misskelley, which was not admitted at trial. Misskelley, who is mentally challenged, retracted the confession within days.

The stepfather of one of the murdered boys was outside the Jonesboro courthouse today angrily protesting the possible deal, but not for the reason one might expect. He's convinced of the innocence of the West Memphis Three and is passionately arguing that they should not have to make a deal with the state in order to go free.

He is also repeatedly naming the man he believes to be the real killer of the three boys.

 James Byard/The Jonesboro Sun/AP Photo
Craighead County Chief Deputy Bob Sharp... View Full Size
 James Byard/The Jonesboro Sun/AP PhotoCraighead County Chief Deputy Bob Sharp escorts Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, center, and Charles Jason Baldwin as they leave the Craighead County Courthouse Annex at Jonesboro, Ark., in this 2008 file photo. Parents Charged in Disabled Son's Death Watch Video
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 Another father, Steve Branch, is angry, too. But he still believes the West Memphis Three are guilty and wonders why, if they pled no contest to the murders, they are being released.

The defense has named Randy Hobbs, who is a stepfather of one of the victims, as a potential new suspect. His DNA was matched to a hair found on the shoelaces used to tie the boys before they were dumped in a ditch. Hobbs, who was questioned early on, denies any involvement and has not been named as a suspect.

The judge had two motions in front of him. One motion alleging juror misconduct in the original case and the other dealing with DNA testing results that allegedly excluded all three men from the crime.

Echols, now 36, Baldwin, 34, and Misskelley, 36, have always maintained their innocence and the case has received considerable publicity, and recently some high-profile financial support.

There was an August rally in Little Rock to raise funds that featured Dixie Chicks singer Natalie Maines, actor Johnny Depp and singer Eddie Vedder.

Two books and two HBO documentaries have been released about the case. YouTube videos, a support group called \"Arkansas Take Action" and a website, WM3.org, round out the media blitz.

The third installment of HBO's documentary series about the case, "Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory" is set to debut at the Toronto and New York film festivals in September. The producers had to rush to get to Arkansas for this hearing, and they are there to film and preparing to change the ending. They had originally been dispatched in 1994 by HBO to the first trial to do a film about how young kids could have gone so wrong to the point of murdering three little boys. Only after observing the trial did they change the theme of the original film.

Echols' attorney, Horgan, said that while it might appear as though celebrity support for the "West Memphis Three" sets the case apart, their story is all too common.

"For every group of defendants like these that ultimately get some attention paid to them, there are 100 who are innocent, who have no legal or financial support," Horgan said.

When the teens were convicted in 1993, he said, they had almost no money to pay for legal help and, as a result, were convicted of a crime they did not commit.

But as the men stood in court today surrounded by a tearful and joyous crowd of family and friends, there was only talk about the future, not the past.

[cineater]

Wow

And they are still getting screwed by making them except the plea deal.  Then again how can anyone pay you for those years?

[axlrosegnr]

Wow

And they are still getting screwed by making them except the plea deal.  Then again how can anyone pay you for those years?

You can't. The plea sucks, but at least they can live the rest of their lives now. Even in cases where people get let go, are totally cleared and everything without a plea, all they get is a "Sorry, have a nice day"