West Memphis Three

[axlrosegnr]

I started this thread because i was sick of reading about it in the Gn'R thread. Here ya go, have at it.  Argue away!

[D]

In a case like this, u have to ask one question

if they didn't do it, who did?

ive seen documentaries etc, but u have to remember, just like Michael Moore docs etc, they are  one sided and only show facts they want u to see to make their argument strong.

I don't really know if they are guilty or not, but if they are, a lot of these celebrities are gonna come off as pieces of shit for supporting them.

[killingvector]

D, it probably won't ever matter b/c there is little in the way of Echols execution at this point and there is no smoking gun to demonstrate their innocence: both the DNA and fiber evidence could not exclude them from the crime scene and the Misskelly confessions provided the police with corroborating evidence as well as previously unrecovered evidence from the crime scene.

Echols has exhausted his appeals at the state level and filed his federal writ very early, meaning once they reject his appeal (which is based on rule of law and the performance of the judge), his execution date can be set by the state. Probably looking at 2011 or 2012.

I don't see the governor rescuing this individual either; the heinousness of the crime coupled with accusations against parents of the victims will not settle well with the people of Arkansas. He is as close to a dead man walking as you can get.

[AxlsMainMan]

What about the fact that the prosecution has always insisted that one boy was always sexually mutilated and yet 2 years ago or so there were about 12 of the world's leading animal experts all giving sworn affidavits saying that the injuries were solely consistent with that of animal mutilation. Of course this evidence was excluded.

Or the fact that the prosecution has always sworn the murders happened at the creekbed and yet there was not nearly enough blood there to corroborate such a theory.

Or the fact that these teenagers must have been brilliant beyond words to leave behind not a shred of DNA evidence. An accomplishment most seasoned killers years older and no doubt wiser than them seem unable to pull off.

Or the fact that just last year, two eyewitnesses said the boys were last seen with Terry Hobbs about an hour before the murders allegedly took place.

[killingvector]

What about the fact that the prosecution has always insisted that one boy was always sexually mutilated and yet 2 years ago or so there were about 12 of the world's leading animal experts all giving sworn affidavits saying that the injuries were solely consistent with that of animal mutilation. Of course this evidence was excluded.

The experts who testified about animal predation did not see the body, only images. The ME determined from the fluid in the lungs that the boys died by drowning: their bodies were submerged in the river. An animal to have inflicted to the wounds to Christopher Byers, for example, would have had to turn him over, feed off his flesh, then re-submerge the body back in the water where they were found. It simply isn't plausible.

The ME in charge of the case was also an expert in animal wounds; he knew the difference between cuts and animal bites. After examining the body first hand, he determined the wounds were due to at least three different weapons, two blunt objects and a sharp knife. The judge agreed and rejected the predation defense.

Or the fact that the prosecution has always sworn the murders happened at the creekbed and yet there was not nearly enough blood there to corroborate such a theory.

There are luminol photos of the crime scene which shows a substantial amount of blood at the scene. Most people are familiar with blood patterns where the blood cannot be absorbed into the surrounding medium, like carpeting in a van or house.  In this case, only a fraction of the blood was visible with luminol because so much had been absorbed in the soil and washed into the creek.

Or the fact that these teenagers must have been brilliant beyond words to leave behind not a shred of DNA evidence. An accomplishment most seasoned killers years older and no doubt wiser than them seem unable to pull off.

yeah, that would be a neat trick, however, it was not true in this case. In fact, the DNA evidence was a big dud for the defense since the DNA samples taken could not exclude the three from the crime scene.

Or the fact that just last year, two eyewitnesses said the boys were last seen with Terry Hobbs about an hour before the murders allegedly took place.

Mark Byers was one of several parents who witnessed Terry Hobbs assembling with the rest of the neighborhood families between just before 9pm that night to go out and search for the missing kids. Check your trial testimony of the parents. It is a matter of record where Terry was that night. The two eyewitnesses are simply lying, as is very common with many of the supporters in the case.

In fact:

"From the book Blood of Innocents, Terry Hobbs is said to have arrived home about 4:30 pm on the afternoon of the fifth.  By this time, Stevie Branch had gone off to play with Michael Moore and would not return.  Terry drove his wife to her job at Catfish Island, a restaurant near the Blue Beacon.  Terry was then responsible for caring for Amanda Hobbs, their four year old daughter."

[journey]

I don't think it's right that they were convicted without sufficient evidence. And no one should be executed when DNA evidence excludes them from a crime.

As far as the nature of the crime is concerned, it seems like two or more people would have been involved. If it was just one guy, one of the kids could have possibly escaped.

[killingvector]

I don't think it's right that they were convicted without sufficient evidence. And no one should be executed when DNA evidence excludes them from a crime.

As far as the nature of the crime is concerned, it seems like two or more people would have been involved. If it was just one guy, one of the kids could have possibly escaped.

The DNA evidence does not exclude them from the crime. In fact, it fails to exclude them which is why its introduction was a complete failure for the defense.

[D]

I agree with Journey

I mean the only other plausible explanation is the one kid's father.. but how can one guy kill 3 kids?

3 defendants, 3 kids... now that makes sense.

now did they mutilate the victims? maybe not. Maybe that was animals but i tend to believe they murdered the kids.

[killingvector]

I agree with Journey

I mean the only other plausible explanation is the one kid's father.. but how can one guy kill 3 kids?

3 defendants, 3 kids... now that makes sense.

now did they mutilate the victims? maybe not. Maybe that was animals but i tend to believe they murdered the kids.

There is no evidence to support the animal predation theory based on the cause of death and the location of the bodies when they were found.

[D]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

[killingvector]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

He lost the teeth, that is true. But the theory that he did so they couldn't be traced was yet another theory floated by Saul Burke and Mara Leveritt. But the wm3 movement has moved on from Byers and is now directly accusing Terry Hobbs, another family member of a murdered child of being the actual killer.

[AxlsMainMan]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

He lost the teeth, that is true. But the theory that he did so they couldn't be traced was yet another theory floated by Saul Burke and Mara Leveritt. But the wm3 movement has moved on from Byers and is now directly accusing Terry Hobbs, another family member of a murdered child of being the actual killer.

Largely with the the support of Mark Byers and Terry Hobb's wife..

[D]

Read over at Gnrsyndicate how Hobbs stepson was beat more severe than the other two? hmm.. it is pretty crazy

[AxlsMainMan]

Read over at Gnrsyndicate how Hobbs stepson was beat more severe than the other two? hmm.. it is pretty crazy

The best part is the "Occult" expert the prosecution hired with the mail-order PhD.

[killingvector]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

He lost the teeth, that is true. But the theory that he did so they couldn't be traced was yet another theory floated by Saul Burke and Mara Leveritt. But the wm3 movement has moved on from Byers and is now directly accusing Terry Hobbs, another family member of a murdered child of being the actual killer.

Largely with the the support of Mark Byers and Terry Hobb's wife..

Mark Byers has been all over the map, basically he is a publicity seeking dullard looking to stay in the spotlight.

Pam and Terry Hobbs had a bitter divorce, after which she made her comments. Since that time, she attempted to reconcile with Terry who smartly rebuffed her advances. If she truly believed what she said, I highly doubt she would have tried to come back to Terry.

But the accusations are complete rubbish anyway; as I pointed out, Terry was watching his four year daughter between 4:30pm and the time when the kids were reported missing. Unless someone is willing to entertain the theory that the child was involved in the slayings, I'd say that Terry's alibi is quite watertight.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

OK, who started supporting the WM3 when that killer said he liked GN'R and CD?  Raise your hands.

Now, who started supporting them because the singer of Guns N' Roses was photographed wearing a WM3 shirt supporting them?  Raise your hands.

No one, right?  Of course not.

[AxlsMainMan]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

He lost the teeth, that is true. But the theory that he did so they couldn't be traced was yet another theory floated by Saul Burke and Mara Leveritt. But the wm3 movement has moved on from Byers and is now directly accusing Terry Hobbs, another family member of a murdered child of being the actual killer.

Largely with the the support of Mark Byers and Terry Hobb's wife..

Mark Byers has been all over the map, basically he is a publicity seeking dullard looking to stay in the spotlight.

All over the map? He insisted the WM3 were guilty for like 14 years, and then read the ?evidence? the prosecution had submitted for the first time in a calm and rational manner and realized it simply did not add up and that there was no way the WM3 were the killers of his son.

Nice that he?s a ?dullard? though and Terry Hobbs is just misunderstood.

Pam and Terry Hobbs had a bitter divorce, after which she made her comments. Since that time, she attempted to reconcile with Terry who smartly rebuffed her advances. If she truly believed what she said, I highly doubt she would have tried to come back to Terry.

I?ve always heard of their relationship as being extremely odd to say the least, and she?s always said she doesn?t really know what happened and has been open to other plausible theories about what happened to her son. I know if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the WM3 were the perpetrators, I wouldn?t be saying I don?t know what happened.

But the accusations are complete rubbish anyway; as I pointed out, Terry was watching his four year daughter between 4:30pm and the time when the kids were reported missing. Unless someone is willing to entertain the theory that the child was involved in the slayings, I'd say that Terry's alibi is quite watertight.

You think a four year old is a watertight alibi? I?d say extremely convenient, but that?s just me.

[Sin Cut]

I agree with Journey

I mean the only other plausible explanation is the one kid's father.. but how can one guy kill 3 kids?

3 defendants, 3 kids... now that makes sense.

now did they mutilate the victims? maybe not. Maybe that was animals but i tend to believe they murdered the kids.

Maybe he watched Dexter.

[sandman]

killingvector - thanks for the information. you seem to have done some significant research on this case.

i honestly don't know what to think about this case. most of the information out there is coming from their supporters. and as i've seen first hand with the Mumia case, people are very quick to believe and jump on board with the "falsely convicted" conclusions when they are spoon-fed only one side of the story. and in some cases, many people believe the out-right lies that are spread to help the defendants case.

so i have 2 questions that I am hoping you can answer...

1. what are the 2 or 3 most significant facts about this case that could lead someone to believe that the right people were found guilty of these crimes?

2. is it true that the parents of the victims now believe that the 3 individuals convicted are actually innocent?

[killingvector]

Does look very fishy how the stepdad had his teeth taken out right after so the bite marks couldn't be traced...

He lost the teeth, that is true. But the theory that he did so they couldn't be traced was yet another theory floated by Saul Burke and Mara Leveritt. But the wm3 movement has moved on from Byers and is now directly accusing Terry Hobbs, another family member of a murdered child of being the actual killer.

Largely with the the support of Mark Byers and Terry Hobb's wife..

Mark Byers has been all over the map, basically he is a publicity seeking dullard looking to stay in the spotlight.

All over the map? He insisted the WM3 were guilty for like 14 years, and then read the ?evidence? the prosecution had submitted for the first time in a calm and rational manner and realized it simply did not add up and that there was no way the WM3 were the killers of his son.

Nice that he?s a ?dullard? though and Terry Hobbs is just misunderstood.

Byers used to hang out with the Paradise Lost filmmakers outside the courtroom hoping they would focus on him. This is especially evident during several awkward exchanges between Saul, Mara, and Mark after the former two had indirectly accused him of lying about his teeth. He was a common fixture on the talk show circuit, from Court TV to Jenny Jones; the man lived for the publicity.

And all over the map, well, I consider a complete reversal based on false evidence to showcase the mind of a very confused individual.

Pam and Terry Hobbs had a bitter divorce, after which she made her comments. Since that time, she attempted to reconcile with Terry who smartly rebuffed her advances. If she truly believed what she said, I highly doubt she would have tried to come back to Terry.

I?ve always heard of their relationship as being extremely odd to say the least, and she?s always said she doesn?t really know what happened and has been open to other plausible theories about what happened to her son. I know if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the WM3 were the perpetrators, I wouldn?t be saying I don?t know what happened.

Pam made her comments out of anger to Terry when the pair were split. There is no doubt about that. The fact that she tried to reconcile is proof enough that her accusation did not carry much more weight than an attempt to hurt someone she once love.

You think a four year old is a watertight alibi? I?d say extremely convenient, but that?s just me.

I guess then the four year was either an eyewitness or conspirator to murder then. LOL.