Axl Rose Slams Irving Azoff In $5 Million Countersuit

[D]

A reunion would be huge if done properly.  and it would make more money than any current tour or album.
i think people are underestimating the potential of a reunion.

I think people are overestimating it.  Greatly!  The world simply isn't waiting with baited breath for a reunion of the AFD/UYI era GNR.  Would it be big?  No doubt, but this isn't Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or The Beatles like some people make it out to be.  Especially after all that has taken place.

no offense dude but it drives me absolutely nuts when people make statements like this. as if u have polled every person in the universe and somehow know so unequivocally that people aren't waiting.

If  u go by other bands that have reunited, Van Halen, Motley, STP, Police, hell even new kids on the block all had huge tours. to suggest people wouldn't be interested is simply towing the company line imo.

i don't want a reunion unless its real but lets don't act like it would go the way of Creed or be some tiny blip on the screen. that is just ridiculous.

Hey, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.  Never did I say a GNR reunion wouldn't be big, or wouldn't be as big as a Spice Girls or NKOTB reunion.  I simply said I don't think it'd be AS big as some people make it out to be.  And no I haven't polled everyone in the universe, have you?  You get back to me when you get the results to tell me I'm wrong.  Until then, I'm going to hold onto my opinion.

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

U allowed your opinion to represent an entire world of human beings.

[IKnowWhereIAM]

In the GnR world, one can never expect smooth sailing...too many people trying to cash in...I hope none of this (new BS) affects the tour or future material, while obviously in the past similar legal BS did.    

[wolftread]

I think what Axl is doing is definitely commendable, really ballsy, and justifiable given what was shared.   I do hope it all gets settled quickly between the parties legal teams.  The biggest concern seems to be how the lawsuit may effect touring "Chinese" in the US.  It seems like Irving controls it all from the tickets, to the venues, to the concert promotion.

I know someone mentioned Pearl Jam was able to do it without CC/ticketmaster but I know that was not succesful and in the end they had to succumb to the corporate monsters.  Hopefully Irving AssHole won't be a dick and mess with how a tour could take place in the US but given the little we know, it seems like he would relish in fucking with Axl/Gn'R anyway possible.  It would be so sad not to be able to see Gn'R stateside as the US is Gn'R's home and the shows are so killer.  To deprive millions of americans from the chance to see this band play "Chinese" along with "Appetite" would be downright criminal.  Do you think maybe we could get some assurance from somewhere, anywhere, anyone that a tour can still happen in the US?  Frank stated that the fall was most likely but now? is something in the works???

I also don't get how Gn'R supposedly lost money on the Canadian leg of the tour.  The venues were basically sold out and the tickets weren't cheap.  I know the show is a large spectacle that is really expensive but still with sold out venues/merch/etc. how is it possible to lose cash...and those Pollstar threads were all encouraging that the shows were doing great.  What I feel ok about is that the Canadian shows were all through Live Nation/Ticketmaster so maybe there is no issues moving forward with shows in the US.  I guess I am just panicking now as I was waiting and counting on seeing the best fucking band in the world back here in the USA....Hope everything works out for you Axl!! We have your back...today, tommorrow, forever....

  

rehearsals.. u have to rent space, pay the players, rent equipment, rent trucks, the stage was massive and they had what 18 trucks or something? U have to pay the crew members, drivers, video/sound people, rent the arenas, pay overtime, travel, hotel

taxes dont forget the insurance and with Axl's rep, he probably i would assume pays a higher premium than most.

I get all of that but don't you factor all of that in when you prepare to go on the road and tour.  All of that shit is should be worked out in advance so you know if you sell this many tickets at this particular price that it will cover "X" costs and allow for money to be made.  That is why there are production accountants and finance people crunching numbers to see where you have to be to make money.  I could understand if they just were not selling tickets but for the most part they were close to selling out all the venues.    Again, if they cannot make money on basically sold out concerts then something or someone is not doing their job...So Axl, if you need a qualified CPA for your team, I would be your man...I would honor the privilege...  

Well I think that is part of the reason Axl is counter suing Irving (because of the losses the tour encountered). In the legal papers it says that Irving didn't carry out his duties when it came to all the stuff you mentioned and that Axl had to get it all done at the last minute causing everything to be more expensive etc. At least that is what I gathered from the papers....

Now it makes sense as I was just able to read the complaint at another site.  WOW...this Irving Assholehoff guy totally dicked them over and then he has the gull to sue Axl/Gn'R for commissions.  I mean with all the money and power that guy has to go after commissions on a band for which he totally dropped the ball on.  It has to be something way personal that went down between Axl and that ass otherwise why would he waste his time...I hope Axl boned his wife in the butt or something (only if she was hot).  The whole thing seems totally sketchy.  It sounds like Front Line still made some cash off the whole Best Buy deal, etc..so to go after some small tour commissions when your not even managing the band...this is personal vendatta shit...I really hope Axl makes this guy miserable...I am no lawyer but it almost seems like there could be a criminal case in there too...I mean the guy obviously has loads of dough so maybe a little time bent over in lock up would be a nice outcome to all the shit he put Axl/Gn'R through.  Why does everything have to be so fucking complicated in the world of Gn'R?   Luckily Axl always/eventually perseveres for the band and the fans and blesses us with his sweet music....godspeed W. Axl Rose....

[jarmo]

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

That's the keyword.


Remember when KISS reunited? Or Led Zeppelin. Or any other band.

They got a lot of press. People still read and listen to the radio etc. So suddenly everybody was aware of this "once in lifetime" thing.


Seems like you always have to try to come up with something "special" to sell tickets. It's either a "reunion", "the last tour" or "the biggest tour so far".

In reality, it's often "two new songs plus all the old stuff you want to hear over and over again".




/jarmo

[faldor]

A reunion would be huge if done properly.  and it would make more money than any current tour or album.
i think people are underestimating the potential of a reunion.

I think people are overestimating it.  Greatly!  The world simply isn't waiting with baited breath for a reunion of the AFD/UYI era GNR.  Would it be big?  No doubt, but this isn't Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or The Beatles like some people make it out to be.  Especially after all that has taken place.

no offense dude but it drives me absolutely nuts when people make statements like this. as if u have polled every person in the universe and somehow know so unequivocally that people aren't waiting.

If  u go by other bands that have reunited, Van Halen, Motley, STP, Police, hell even new kids on the block all had huge tours. to suggest people wouldn't be interested is simply towing the company line imo.

i don't want a reunion unless its real but lets don't act like it would go the way of Creed or be some tiny blip on the screen. that is just ridiculous.

Hey, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.  Never did I say a GNR reunion wouldn't be big, or wouldn't be as big as a Spice Girls or NKOTB reunion.  I simply said I don't think it'd be AS big as some people make it out to be.  And no I haven't polled everyone in the universe, have you?  You get back to me when you get the results to tell me I'm wrong.  Until then, I'm going to hold onto my opinion.

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

U allowed your opinion to represent an entire world of human beings.

Honestly D, give it a rest.  I said "I" don't think the world is waiting with baited breath.  It's still my opinion.  It's exactly the same thing you're doing.

[nekomex]

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

That's the keyword.


Remember when KISS reunited? Or Led Zeppelin. Or any other band.

They got a lot of press. People still read and listen to the radio etc. So suddenly everybody was aware of this "once in lifetime" thing.


Seems like you always have to try to come up with something "special" to sell tickets. It's either a "reunion", "the last tour" or "the biggest tour so far".

In reality, it's often "two new songs plus all the old stuff you want to hear over and over again".




/jarmo

i agree , but thats why i found so stupid what Azoff did, you have an album that was known like the most expected album in rock history and you waste your time trying to get back the old band? and just throw away the possibility of exploding the new music?

he just needed to promote the name of GNR and a new Tour and Chinese Democracy and make a big deal about the people being able to see GNR and Axl again with a new album etc.

[D]

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

That's the keyword.


Remember when KISS reunited? Or Led Zeppelin. Or any other band.

They got a lot of press. People still read and listen to the radio etc. So suddenly everybody was aware of this "once in lifetime" thing.


Seems like you always have to try to come up with something "special" to sell tickets. It's either a "reunion", "the last tour" or "the biggest tour so far".

In reality, it's often "two new songs plus all the old stuff you want to hear over and over again".




/jarmo

HAHA Farewell Tours are the worst. I saw Kiss like in 2000 and it was the last one..... funny how i saw them again last year.

I really hope Axl takes this even further and helps the fight against this ridiculous merger. I thought they said the merger would be good for the business, last time i went to order tickets, they were absolutely outrageous!

[D]

A reunion would be huge if done properly.  and it would make more money than any current tour or album.
i think people are underestimating the potential of a reunion.

I think people are overestimating it.  Greatly!  The world simply isn't waiting with baited breath for a reunion of the AFD/UYI era GNR.  Would it be big?  No doubt, but this isn't Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or The Beatles like some people make it out to be.  Especially after all that has taken place.

Faldor, don't try to spin something when its right there in black. it isn't a big deal, hell u may be right, i remember Axl saying that from numbers he had seen, he really wouldn't make that much more money.

so it was obviously presented to him in some form or fashion and he declined, then thats when the betrayal happened imo.

[norway]

What Azoff wants won't happen, I can see that from far. Give it up!

And wtf if this kinpin really did that. All they think of is money and public reception. It's he who reuinted the crue yeh?

[bushkarocks!!]

This is a GNR website in general. Like I said, shouldn't matter who likes what as I said in my example -- one person can like the old, another can like the new band. It shouldn't matter, this is a GNR board. I'm a fan in general, not of one era or another.

Fucking hell. I don't know what to say.... What I'm about to say is basically what I've said the last few posts. But it just doesn't seem to register.... Apologies to those who do get it.



It matters a whole lot if somebody comes here saying they're a GN'R fan only post shit about Dj, Bumblefoot or any other current band member and/or the current band.

Why can't you get that?

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that this isn't the kind of place where you have to feel afraid of actually saying that you love GN'R today?

I have explained to you how this place works. I have explained the "policy" we have. Why can't you accept it instead of going on and on about how it doesn't matter what you like?

You're right. It shouldn't matter. But it does.

Because the only thing I care about if you come here is that I EXPECT you to be a fan of GN'R as it is today. I don't care if you liked the band in 1987, 1991 or any other previous year. It's pretty irrelevant to me.

Oh, by the way, the only thing I expect from anybody here is that I expect them to be supportive and a fan of the current band.





/jarmo


PS If you're reading this and/or posting here, I hope you're a fan of GN'R. You know those guys who have been playing live all over the world since last December (2009): Axl, Tommy, Ron, Richard, Dj, Dizzy, Chris and Frank.

First of all i am a fan of all the era's and the current line-up is just awesome!
But i see the point Cotis tries to make.....
Maybe it's you who don't get it .... what point he is making.
Ofcourse response with how this is you website and you make the rules blablabla
Sure ya right on that ......

This board is close to an official forum of GnR and It's a shame it's owned by someone who can't accept any Criticism about what's going on with GnR
Very sad...

Everyone got a right of freedom of speech, sadly you can't find it on this board

[Shackler]

That's because this is a fan board

[faldor]

A reunion would be huge if done properly.  and it would make more money than any current tour or album.
i think people are underestimating the potential of a reunion.

I think people are overestimating it.  Greatly!  The world simply isn't waiting with baited breath for a reunion of the AFD/UYI era GNR.  Would it be big?  No doubt, but this isn't Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or The Beatles like some people make it out to be.  Especially after all that has taken place.

Faldor, don't try to spin something when its right there in black. it isn't a big deal, hell u may be right, i remember Axl saying that from numbers he had seen, he really wouldn't make that much more money.

so it was obviously presented to him in some form or fashion and he declined, then thats when the betrayal happened imo.

I'm not trying to spin anything D.  Let me explain something that should be obvious to you and everyone else.  When I say, "The world isn't waiting for a GNR reunion", It's MY opinion.  Obviously it's not a fact.  If I were to say "Welcome to the Jungle" was the first video from GNR played on MTV.  THAT would be a fact.  If I said, "the world knows that Rocket Queen is the best GNR song ever".  THAT would be an opinion.  You see? 

Here's my reasoning on why a reunion wouldn't be as big as some might think.  The GNR fanbase is so divided and has been for years.  There are large amounts of people who support Axl and love the new lineup and have complete disregard for Slash for the things he's said about Axl and the things he's done over the years.  The other side blames Axl for the breakup of the original lineup and for the direction he's taken the band in.

Outside of GNR fans, unfortunately, Axl doesn't seem to be viewed in such a positive light either.  I can venture to guess that many of them wouldn't just forgive and forget IF a reunion were to take place.  Same for GNR fans.  Many would just brush it off and accept it for what it was, but some may stand firm to their beliefs and say, "F Slash/Axl".

Hey, I could be completely off base too, but that's what I believe.

And just in case you couldn't tell.  Everything in this post was MY OPINION.  None of it was fact, unless noted as such.  Sorry for any confusion.

[willow]

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

That's the keyword.


Remember when KISS reunited? Or Led Zeppelin. Or any other band.

They got a lot of press. People still read and listen to the radio etc. So suddenly everybody was aware of this "once in lifetime" thing.


Seems like you always have to try to come up with something "special" to sell tickets. It's either a "reunion", "the last tour" or "the biggest tour so far".

In reality, it's often "two new songs plus all the old stuff you want to hear over and over again".




/jarmo

HAHA Farewell Tours are the worst. I saw Kiss like in 2000 and it was the last one..... funny how i saw them again last year.

I really hope Axl takes this even further and helps the fight against this ridiculous merger. I thought they said the merger would be good for the business, last time i went to order tickets, they were absolutely outrageous!

I so agree. that merger was a huge mistake. I realize everything ends up being about money but come on! How much money do you need.
I wish other artists would help fight it. Again good luck Axl. At least you have the balls to fight this guy!

[jarmo]

Everyone got a right of freedom of speech, sadly you can't find it on this board

Yeah. And in reality you tend to adapt to your surroundings.

But in our case, it's labeled "censorship".

I bet none of you would go into a bar full of Flyers fans and tell them how much their team sucks and how stupid their fans are. So you "censor" yourself.

But on the Internet it's ok, "freedom of speech"... 




/jarmo

[Voodoochild]

One thing I would like to see is some artists helping or at least giving kudos to Axl for trying to fight against a huge scheme of manipulation in this market. But I guess people are attached to their contracts...

First of all i am a fan of all the era's and the current line-up is just awesome!
But i see the point Cotis tries to make.....
Maybe it's you who don't get it .... what point he is making.
Of course response with how this is you website and you make the rules blablabla
Sure ya right on that ......

This board is close to an official forum of GnR and It's a shame it's owned by someone who can't accept any Criticism about what's going on with GnR
Very sad...

Everyone got a right of freedom of speech, sadly you can't find it on this board

I'm sure jarmo already adressed and he don't need me defending his rules, but I must say something (and I know exactly what people will call me after)...

I ran a message board once - not as big as HTGTH, but big enough to have several active members. And I know exactly what's happening.

Cotis uses this rethoric to put a spin in every admin decision. He's not that worried about a good message board, but rather trying to whine and take shots at Jarmo. Pure and simple. He uses sarcasm and irony just like my old brother did with me when we were kids - it's always in order to irritate the other, but twisted enough to claim "it wasn't intended to offend" or whatever. Of course, all he wanted to do is lead me to take the first move against him and then claim to our mother how I started all and how he was innocent. Really, as childish as it may look, it's exactly the same thing I see with cotis. Otherwise, why is he so worried how this board works and question every single move, even if he has nothing to do with it?

A friend once told me one thing: "freedom of speach doesn't equal to shit in the living room", haha. It's damn right. You can't evoque freedom of speach for everything you think you can say and fuck the rest. Fuck if this board is meant for fans of the current GNR.

Try to go to other boards. All I see is people taking shots at the band (Axl or current members) all the time, in every single thread. "Oh, Axl is so fucked up and shouldn't try to sue Azoff". "Oh, Slash's album is way better than Chinese Democracy". In my honest opinion, that's far from being fan of the current line up.

If the Here Today Gone To Hell message board is what you call "close to an official forum of GnR", why would Jarmo let all this negative shit flood every single thread? Really, that's your concept of being a fan of "all the era's"? To me, sounds like fans of everything but the current.

People feel all upset because they couldn't hijack the thread with cheap shots at Bumblefoot or how "Axl lost his voice" or whatever. If they think it's right to call Jarmo a nazi and his rules censorship, may I call this hijacking and bullying as terrorism, ok?

[D]

Ive always been firmly in the middle with the axlites and the slashlites sometimes leaning a bit more this or that way but ive said this on other forums, if u can find something negative about  this, and dont have axl's back on this....why r u even wasting time on a forum?

drives me nuts when people always find something negative in everything he does. he got sued, he has to answer said lawsuit and i believe his side of the story.

[D]

One thing I would like to see is some artists helping or at least giving kudos to Axl for trying to fight against a huge scheme of manipulation in this market. But I guess people are attached to their contracts...

First of all i am a fan of all the era's and the current line-up is just awesome!
But i see the point Cotis tries to make.....
Maybe it's you who don't get it .... what point he is making.
Of course response with how this is you website and you make the rules blablabla
Sure ya right on that ......

This board is close to an official forum of GnR and It's a shame it's owned by someone who can't accept any Criticism about what's going on with GnR
Very sad...

Everyone got a right of freedom of speech, sadly you can't find it on this board

I'm sure jarmo already adressed and he don't need me defending his rules, but I must say something (and I know exactly what people will call me after)...

I ran a message board once - not as big as HTGTH, but big enough to have several active members. And I know exactly what's happening.

Cotis uses this rethoric to put a spin in every admin decision. He's not that worried about a good message board, but rather trying to whine and take shots at Jarmo. Pure and simple. He uses sarcasm and irony just like my old brother did with me when we were kids - it's always in order to irritate the other, but twisted enough to claim "it wasn't intended to offend" or whatever. Of course, all he wanted to do is lead me to take the first move against him and then claim to our mother how I started all and how he was innocent. Really, as childish as it may look, it's exactly the same thing I see with cotis. Otherwise, why is he so worried how this board works and question every single move, even if he has nothing to do with it?

A friend once told me one thing: "freedom of speach doesn't equal to shit in the living room", haha. It's damn right. You can't evoque freedom of speach for everything you think you can say and fuck the rest. Fuck if this board is meant for fans of the current GNR.

Try to go to other boards. All I see is people taking shots at the band (Axl or current members) all the time, in every single thread. "Oh, Axl is so fucked up and shouldn't try to sue Azoff". "Oh, Slash's album is way better than Chinese Democracy". In my honest opinion, that's far from being fan of the current line up.

If the Here Today Gone To Hell message board is what you call "close to an official forum of GnR", why would Jarmo let all this negative shit flood every single thread? Really, that's your concept of being a fan of "all the era's"? To me, sounds like fans of everything but the current.

People feel all upset because they couldn't hijack the thread with cheap shots at Bumblefoot or how "Axl lost his voice" or whatever. If they think it's right to call Jarmo a nazi and his rules censorship, may I call this hijacking and bullying as terrorism, ok?

i agree with most of that,what i dont agree is when people feel a need to desecrate the old band to appear to be loyal super fans.
if  i like contraband better than CD,that doesn't mean im not a fan of the new band. too much a lot of times is either this or that and it drives me crazy. if i like Slash, i hate the new band.if i think contraband is awesome i am hater. if i think finck is terrible,i live in 1988

i think there is a giant difference in giving an honest opinion and trolling/hating/not being supportive

there are several posters over the years that do exactly as u said... there are also several posters who i call the invite me backstage crew that seem to solely exist on here to try to get some reward and its fake as hell and i see through it.
read bodhi's sig for what i mean.

[Voodoochild]

Well, I don't want to go on about this all, but there's one thing people forget about it: there IS a place in this board to talk about Slash. Or Robin Finck. It's not like it isn't allowed to like and talk about them, it's just that they are not in Guns N' Roses therefore this section is not the right place to talk about it.

What people do is like "oh wait, Axl talked about a reunion, let's post our setlist dream with the old songs!". The point is: this thread isn't about "a reunion that might happen". People aren't stupid, they know what to say to incite some discussion between old vs new.

About people "invite me backstage crew", I don't know but I'm sure I'm not one of them. But it's really unfair when I see those kind of discussions - often, when you take the admin side, you're labeled nutswinger. I saw several people in my old board who even agreed with me, but didn't post their opinions because they knew what other people would say about them. I don't think that's fair at all.

[norway]

I don't like the whole exctent of how the site became a PR-outlet than a news-outlet sometimes.

This is the only gnr-page I use tho and don't see why I should constantly remind everyone. It's not up to me.

Musicly, I wouldn't want any reunion at all, but it in all honesty; The band hasn't imo yet reached their own distinctive fanbase. A lot got into, or got re-introdused to this via Oh My God and the new elements and musicans.

There, one must also see the reunion-intrest from that perspective. Just my 2 cents.

I'm mostly a follower of Axl now, that voice, that artist!

[veritas55]

Difference is, i said "I" believe it will be huge just based off other bands who have reunited who wouldn't generate half the buzz as GNR.

That's the keyword.


Remember when KISS reunited? Or Led Zeppelin. Or any other band.

They got a lot of press. People still read and listen to the radio etc. So suddenly everybody was aware of this "once in lifetime" thing.


Seems like you always have to try to come up with something "special" to sell tickets. It's either a "reunion", "the last tour" or "the biggest tour so far".

In reality, it's often "two new songs plus all the old stuff you want to hear over and over again".




/jarmo

i agree , but thats why i found so stupid what Azoff did, you have an album that was known like the most expected album in rock history and you waste your time trying to get back the old band? and just throw away the possibility of exploding the new music?

he just needed to promote the name of GNR and a new Tour and Chinese Democracy and make a big deal about the people being able to see GNR and Axl again with a new album etc.

Azoff seems to be a lot of nasty things wrapped up in one, but I have never heard him accused of being a bad, much less stupid, businessman.  Again, assuming what the countersuit says is true, what Azoff was attempting to do makes sense from a purely business profit-motivated standpoint.  The really big dollars, particular in the US market, are there for a reunion / nostalgia tour, not for Chinese Democracy (not matter how strong and anticipated it was) or ANY new music, regardless of the quality.  The sales just aren't there in this downloading / itunes single-driven climate for something like Chinese Democracy, which is not a single-driven, hip-hop super catchy want-to-be-on-my-iphone-ring type of album.  Chinese Democracy is a more old-school thing that requires extended, devoted listenings to really appreciate.  It probably would have done great in 1999/2000.  Less so today.

So, there was nothing "stupid" about Azoff's actions, from a business standpoint.  That's not to say it wasn't underhanded and disingenuous to pick up this band under the guise of being "really behind" the band and Chinese Democracy, when your real motive was to get Axl and Slash back on stage together.  He probably was angling for a reunion, saw it wasn't going to happen, held out to see if Chinese exploded sales-wise.  It didn't.  And he probably decided more money could be had elsewhere, with other less "difficult" clients.  Nice guy.