Axl Rose Slams Irving Azoff In $5 Million Countersuit

[AxlReznor]

I'm also wondering if this is what Scott Weiland meant when he said that Slash and Duff came close to dotting the i's and crossing the t's for a GNR reunion. Was Azoff talking with Slash and Duff during this time period?

Didn't Azoff manage VR for awhile or am I imagining that?

U are correct

reading the countersuit, i def think Axl wins this and maybe he can be the artist to start the anti trust thing up and be the guy out front with it.

From what I understand, Azoff and VR didn't part ways on good terms, either, so I doubt he was talking to them.
Conversation I heard at a meet and greet with Duff... "A bunch of us put together a package for you with a t-shirt, and things in. Did you get it?", "I didn't know... did you send it to management?"... "Yes"... "That explains it then".
Also, I'm pretty sure that Azoff described Slash and Duff as "questionable people" when defending Axl a little while ago.

I think Scott had just read that rumour that was going around in the run-up to Download in 2006, and formed his own conclusions from that.

[faldor]

i know everyone is pissed at Azoff right now, and rightfully so.  But you have to remember that music is a business and businessmen want money.

Axl will always find it hard to find a manager that doesn't secretly want a reunion.  Its just too lucrative for a businessman not to want.  Don't be surprised at all if Doc has the same agenda.  Wasn't it Doc that convinced Motley to bring back Vince?

My point is that any manager would drop the rest of the band if a reunion was on the cards.  Not all managers would try to force it like Azoff has but they would all jump at the chance if possible.

Obviously anyone who may manage GNR would know deep down that the most money could be made from a reunion but in no way should they try to sabotage Axl's vision to get that.  In fact, if Azoff believed the band could fail on their own he should've done a lot more to help them out and maybe then could've re-broached the reunion subject.  There's a way to go about things, and it seems that Azoff didn't come close to going about it the right way.

[jacdaniel]

i know everyone is pissed at Azoff right now, and rightfully so.  But you have to remember that music is a business and businessmen want money.

Axl will always find it hard to find a manager that doesn't secretly want a reunion.  Its just too lucrative for a businessman not to want.  Don't be surprised at all if Doc has the same agenda.  Wasn't it Doc that convinced Motley to bring back Vince?

My point is that any manager would drop the rest of the band if a reunion was on the cards.  Not all managers would try to force it like Azoff has but they would all jump at the chance if possible.

Obviously anyone who may manage GNR would know deep down that the most money could be made from a reunion but in no way should they try to sabotage Axl's vision to get that.  In fact, if Azoff believed the band could fail on their own he should've done a lot more to help them out and maybe then could've re-broached the reunion subject.  There's a way to go about things, and it seems that Azoff didn't come close to going about it the right way.

Agreed, its very unfortunate for Axl.  Its 15 years wasted cos of Azoffs agenda.   (not entirely wasted obviously)
and im sure it will make Axl more bitter towards the alumni as a result.

[faldor]

i know everyone is pissed at Azoff right now, and rightfully so.  But you have to remember that music is a business and businessmen want money.

Axl will always find it hard to find a manager that doesn't secretly want a reunion.  Its just too lucrative for a businessman not to want.  Don't be surprised at all if Doc has the same agenda.  Wasn't it Doc that convinced Motley to bring back Vince?

My point is that any manager would drop the rest of the band if a reunion was on the cards.  Not all managers would try to force it like Azoff has but they would all jump at the chance if possible.

Obviously anyone who may manage GNR would know deep down that the most money could be made from a reunion but in no way should they try to sabotage Axl's vision to get that.  In fact, if Azoff believed the band could fail on their own he should've done a lot more to help them out and maybe then could've re-broached the reunion subject.  There's a way to go about things, and it seems that Azoff didn't come close to going about it the right way.

Agreed, its very unfortunate for Axl.  Its 15 years wasted cos of Azoffs agenda.   (not entirely wasted obviously)
and im sure it will make Axl more bitter towards the alumni as a result.

I think it's safe to say, that's already happened.  At least in the case of one of the alumni.

[Annie]

I don't think 15 years has been wasted. THIS I LOVE still has the potential to be a major hit.

[jacdaniel]

I don't think 15 years has been wasted. THIS I LOVE still has the potential to be a major hit.

I don't mean wasted artistiically, but the fact that his manager and staff basically sold him out and dropped the ball on the product that he spent years working on.

Im sure the current tour is the final piece of promotion we will see for CD.  I doubt they'll bother with a video or any further promotion for the album now. 

Will be interesting to see what happens from here.

[Brundle25]

Heres a Question, Azoff reunited the Eagles right? Did any of the 'Eagles' Solo projects bomb before they reunited?

[CheapJon]

I don't think 15 years has been wasted. THIS I LOVE still has the potential to be a major hit.

I don't mean wasted artistiically, but the fact that his manager and staff basically sold him out and dropped the ball on the product that he spent years working on.

Im sure the current tour is the final piece of promotion we will see for CD.  I doubt they'll bother with a video or any further promotion for the album now. 

Will be interesting to see what happens from here.

I'm not saying they should, but they could put out the next album and release singles from both, like with the illusions, promote the hell out of both

[Voodoochild]

I sure hope they still can promote the album with a video or at least some live DVD, I dunno...

[FunkyMonkey]

From Nikki Sixx:

@Axlrose vs. Irving Azoff.Since when do managers sue artists for commissions?Is this just about commissions?

about 13 hours ago via web

http://twitter.com/NikkiSixx/status/14336105197

[GypsySoul]

I seriously think that Robin... QUIT of GNR, because of this demon

I was thinking about that as well, azoff was pushing axl to get a new guitarist.. first step of breaking up the band

Azoff was formally announced on March 27, 2008.  Robin was formally announced in NIN on April 4, 2008 and he blindsided GNR with his leaving.  So unless Robin also had a secret hatred for Azoff, I think the timing makes it highly unlikely that there's any connection to the two.

just because robin was "formally announced" in NIN doesn't mean he had quit GNR at that point.. that year was all about getting the record out and there were no plans of touring and all of robin's recording has been done. they didn't look for a new GNR player until there were "plans" of touring which there never really was according to axl. the connection is the time of "plans" for touring and the time ashba was announced.. not when robin joined NIN and azoff got the job through lies

you're actually defending azoff against robin, wow

Your argument doesn't make any sense because the counter-suit states that azoff was pushing for a reunion and not just to get a new guitarist for touring.

I think what both azoff and robin did was despicable.  I'm NOT defending either one but, yes, I do think what robin did was worse.  azoff was just a business associate looking after his own bottom line.  robin was not only a business associate but was also supposedly a trusted friend.

If robin had any issues or concerns about what was going on when new management was brought on-board or anything else, HE SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING!!!  Not go blindside everyone by going behind their backs to join up with NIN 'just in case'.

Despite what powers-of-persuasion azoff may have thought he possessed, Axl has always stated that there wouldn't be any 'reunion' because the 'current' line-up IS Gun N' Roses!   AXL ALREADY HAD HIS (robin's) BACK COVERED!!!


P.S.  And for the record, I'm not saying anything against Ashba being in the band.  On the contrary, I think that having Dj in the band is an excellent move!  Not only is he talented, he also draws in the young goth crowd $$$ and once inside, Axl will have them mesmerized and keep them (as he does us) coming back for more!!!



P.P.S.  azoff is a dickhead     

[CheapJon]

I seriously think that Robin... QUIT of GNR, because of this demon

I was thinking about that as well, azoff was pushing axl to get a new guitarist.. first step of breaking up the band

Azoff was formally announced on March 27, 2008.  Robin was formally announced in NIN on April 4, 2008 and he blindsided GNR with his leaving.  So unless Robin also had a secret hatred for Azoff, I think the timing makes it highly unlikely that there's any connection to the two.

just because robin was "formally announced" in NIN doesn't mean he had quit GNR at that point.. that year was all about getting the record out and there were no plans of touring and all of robin's recording has been done. they didn't look for a new GNR player until there were "plans" of touring which there never really was according to axl. the connection is the time of "plans" for touring and the time ashba was announced.. not when robin joined NIN and azoff got the job through lies

you're actually defending azoff against robin, wow

Your argument doesn't make any sense because the counter-suit states that azoff was pushing for a reunion and not just to get a new guitarist for touring.

my arguement makes sense in the way that getting rid of robin - a long time member - was a first step for breaking apart the band at that time.. by breaking apart the band completely azoff could try and force axl to invite the persons azoff wanted (old line up) or else azoff would "freeze" axl's career, i don't know but that makes sense to me

what doesn't make sense is trying to discuss stuff with you, of course you hate robin since he has left, if dj would leave the band for touring with sixx am and GN'R needed to tour and robin joined you'd hate dj and love robin for the fact that he comes back for axl



let's not take this shit further

[Sillything]

I hope Axl wins! If he does he will be a huge hero trough out popculture forever! Power to the people!!!

[Sillything]

From Nikki Sixx:

@Axlrose vs. Irving Azoff.Since when do managers sue artists for commissions?Is this just about commissions?

about 13 hours ago via web

http://twitter.com/NikkiSixx/status/14336105197

What could this mean?

[sky dog]

It sounds like Nikki thinks this whole thing is a personal vendetta against Axl.

[gnrjanus]

and that's correct

[Nytunz]

I think that AssOff dude has messed with the wrong people this time... Now i know better! About the whole marketing stuff, and why the lack of promotion and stuff! What a way to run over people!

Imagine u have built a boat. After 10 years you are nearly ready... then AssOff suddenly show up, and u put your trust in the guy, who turns out to not be the captain u wanted him to be.

Hope he will pay for this..

[AxlReznor]

I think that AssOff dude has messed with the wrong people this time... Now i know better! About the whole marketing stuff, and why the lack of promotion and stuff! What a way to run over people!

Imagine u have built a boat. After 10 years you are nearly ready... then AssOff suddenly show up, and u put your trust in the guy, who turns out to not be the captain u wanted him to be.

Hope he will pay for this..

I'm not so sure that Azoff will lose. He definitely will lose, but going up against possibly the most influential and powerful figure in a multi-million dollar industry is either really brave, or really stupid.
One of them has bitten off more than he can chew, but it remains to be seen which one. It will sure be interesting either way... and if Axl wins, it'll be a major victory, not just for GN'R, but for anyone who calls themselves a music fan.

[veritas55]

Azoff is known as a pretty rough and tumble guy, and, frankly, a prick, it seems.  (Read Don Felder's book about the Eagles and you will get a real flavor of Azoff's very hard-nosed tactics.)

That said, I have to say that Axl's relationships with past managers (Doug, Merck) have also ended badly, as have many of his relationships with ex-bandmates and others.  So, there could well be an interactive effect when two "difficult" personalities to get together.  I have to say that my first thought when Azoff was hired was that he would campaign heavily for a reunion - that's exactly what he did so successfully with The Eagles.  That would seem like an obvious thing to do, even though your client (Axl) does not want it.  Part of the (unfortunate) role of a business manager is to push their clients into making more money and developing more opportunities -- the reunion is the very obvious money card here, from a manager perspective.  Not saying it's a honorable thing or a "right" thing to do, but managers are not life coaches -- they are out to make a buck.

In any event, I don't see how you can lay the low-ish record sales entirely on Azoff's door.  Seems to me he helped secure a pretty huge no-return pre-order from Best Buy that guaranteed a lot of sales -- and Best Buy ended up eating a lot of these sales, not GnR.  Also, Axl did next to nothing to promote CD (now, maybe Azoff's acts and lack of promotion caused Axl to say "what the fuck!", but that's still self-sabotage in some ways).  Moreover, the long wait led to this record entering a record-buying climate that pretty much doomed big sales from the outset, irrespective of whatever marketing you did.  NOTHING (other than flukes like Susan Boyle) is selling big nowadays: you can move 60,000 units in Week 1 and have a Number 1 record on the charts.  Remember when CDs sold hundreds of thousands (if not well over 1 million) in opening weeks to claim No. 1 position? You can't put the years of delays on Azoff's watch.

So, whatever asshole things Azoff did (and I am inclined to believe that much of what Axl claims is true), they are just part of the story in CD not selling as well as it maybe could have.

[veritas55]

I think that AssOff dude has messed with the wrong people this time... Now i know better! About the whole marketing stuff, and why the lack of promotion and stuff! What a way to run over people!

Imagine u have built a boat. After 10 years you are nearly ready... then AssOff suddenly show up, and u put your trust in the guy, who turns out to not be the captain u wanted him to be.

Hope he will pay for this..

I'm not so sure that Azoff will lose. He definitely will lose, but going up against possibly the most influential and powerful figure in a multi-million dollar industry is either really brave, or really stupid.
One of them has bitten off more than he can chew, but it remains to be seen which one. It will sure be interesting either way... and if Axl wins, it'll be a major victory, not just for GN'R, but for anyone who calls themselves a music fan.

I would think that they will settle at some point in time, as most lawsuits do.
When you compare complaints, they both look pretty thin and the damages will largely offset.
Azoff may have a hard time proving that he did sufficient work to earn his commissions for the tour, and Axl will have a very hard time (from a legal perspective) showing lost profits in lower record sales based on Azoff not marketing / promoting enough.  Lost profits are hard to prove because you have to eliminate so many other confounding variables, like the record selling climate etc.  You basically have to establish a factual state of affairs that never existed.

So, in spite of whatever bitterness these guys have against each other, I bet at some point the attorneys for each side will basically tell their clients, "look, this is a wash and will cost you a lot of money to litigate."  Azoff will walk away from his commissions and Axl walks away from the lost profits.

Or maybe not .....