NFL 2010 Season

[Bodhi]

Donovan could barley get to the Super Bowl when he was in his prime...he is done now..Personally as of right now I dont think he is a hall of famer, if he were to get in that would lower the bar significantly.  He was a solid quarterback for a number of years, even very good at times...but in my opinion you have to be great to be a hall of famer, which he never was.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Donovan could barley get to the Super Bowl when he was in his prime...he is done now..Personally as of right now I dont think he is a hall of famer, if he were to get in that would lower the bar significantly.  He was a solid quarterback for a number of years, even very good at times...but in my opinion you have to be great to be a hall of famer, which he never was.

Bodhi, Namath lowered the bar plenty.  One big win does not a HOF career make...unless you're Broadway Joe (don't get me wrong, I love the guy!)...but HOF calibre?    
Jim Kelly aint too much better either.  So would Donovan "lower the bar?"  I say no, it's already been lowered. 
I'm not saying Donovan's a lock by any means.  3 more years of what happened in Washington last season =  no chance.  3 more years with stellar numbers combined with another Championship or Super Bowl appearance?  He'd be in.
btw, everybody thought Favre was done before his 33td, 7int 2009, one pass away from a Super Bowl. 
I think McNabb is capable of some very good seasons on the right team.
1-Minnesota (get rid of Turdvaris, let Donovan mentor Webb)
2-San Fran (this team has talent, just insert a qb to run the West Coast O)
3-Miami (Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess...solid running game...only obstacle is a very tough division with the Pats and Jets)

[gilee7]

Donovan's demise is greatly exaggerated. The Eagles went 10-6 this year with Vick, and many thought they were a possible Superbowl contender. Well, the year before, with McNabb at QB, the Eagles were 11-5. Take into consideration that Maclin was improved in his second year, McCoy was MUCH improved in his second year, and it's not unrealistic to say that McNabb would've fared just as well this season, if not better. The o-line was pretty much the same both years (terrible). Also, the year before THAT, the Eagles came up just short against AZ in the NFC Championship game. So McNabb was still having plenty of success his last couple of years in Philly. He wasn't "done," by any means.

I watched a lot of Redskins game this year while McNabb was the starter. Their o-line was abysmal, their receivers dropped pass after pass, they never had much of a running game. I'm not saying McNabb played well, because he didn't, but he was actually on pace to throw for 4000 yards before he was benched. Mike Shanahan is overrated as shit, and he never gave McNabb much of a chance to succeed. I don't know what Kyle Shanhan's deal is, but he just never seemed to like McNabb. In McNabb's last start, he led the Redskins down the field in the last two minutes against Tampa Bay, scored a TD that should've tied it, but the damn extra point was fumbled . . . Yet, after the game, Kyle vowed that McNabb wouldn't play another snap as a Redskin. WTF?

McNabb's not the same player he used to be, but I think if you put him on a team like the Vikings or the Fins, two teams with plenty of talent, then he could have success and win a lot of games. I think he's a borderline HOF'er right now. If he has a 2-3 more good years, though, and leads another team to the playoffs, I think he deserves to be inducted. The only two QBs to win more games this past decade were Peyton and Brady.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Donovan's demise is greatly exaggerated. The Eagles went 10-6 this year with Vick, and many thought they were a possible Superbowl contender. Well, the year before, with McNabb at QB, the Eagles were 11-5. Take into consideration that Maclin was improved in his second year, McCoy was MUCH improved in his second year, and it's not unrealistic to say that McNabb would've fared just as well this season, if not better. The o-line was pretty much the same both years (terrible). Also, the year before THAT, the Eagles came up just short against AZ in the NFC Championship game. So McNabb was still having plenty of success his last couple of years in Philly. He wasn't "done," by any means.

I watched a lot of Redskins game this year while McNabb was the starter. Their o-line was abysmal, their receivers dropped pass after pass, they never had much of a running game. I'm not saying McNabb played well, because he didn't, but he was actually on pace to throw for 4000 yards before he was benched. Mike Shanahan is overrated as shit, and he never gave McNabb much of a chance to succeed. I don't know what Kyle Shanhan's deal is, but he just never seemed to like McNabb. In McNabb's last start, he led the Redskins down the field in the last two minutes against Tampa Bay, scored a TD that should've tied it, but the damn extra point was fumbled . . . Yet, after the game, Kyle vowed that McNabb wouldn't play another snap as a Redskin. WTF?

McNabb's not the same player he used to be, but I think if you put him on a team like the Vikings or the Fins, two teams with plenty of talent, then he could have success and win a lot of games. I think he's a borderline HOF'er right now. If he has a 2-3 more good years, though, and leads another team to the playoffs, I think he deserves to be inducted. The only two QBs to win more games this past decade were Peyton and Brady.

Great post Gilee.   

Seriously, I knew the Shanahans were finished with McNabb when they played the Eagles on Monday Night I think it was?  (I think it was a Monday night game.)  1st play from scrimmage, Vick connects with D-Jax to go up 7-0.
What did the Shanahans do to counter?  They handed the ball off 3 straight times to their rb, who at the time was their 3rd string tailback.  (I believe Portis and Torain were hurt at the time...Keiland Williams)  It was a 3 and out...from there it just got uglier.
I still wanna see the reaction from the Shanahans when they won their last reg. season game.     They were probably throwing their headsets down on the ground!    "Motherfuckers!  We're trying to lose, you morons!  We probably just dropped 6 slots in the Draft!"   

Yes Gilee, McNabb's agent (if he's smart) should be talking to the Vikes and fins...included in the talks should be their willingness to go down in price, and play with an incentive-laiden contract.

btw, do any of you read ESPN Magazine?  Their Player X articles are fucking GREAT!  The current dude is funny as hell.  If you aren't familiar with the topic, ESPN has an anonymous professional athlete write a weekly article for the magazine.  The players are brutally honest.  He claims about 70% of NFL players are there for one thing, and it aint the love of the game...it's money.  If anybody has read it, I'd love to hear your thoughts.  I believe the guy.

[Bodhi]

Donovan could barley get to the Super Bowl when he was in his prime...he is done now..Personally as of right now I dont think he is a hall of famer, if he were to get in that would lower the bar significantly.  He was a solid quarterback for a number of years, even very good at times...but in my opinion you have to be great to be a hall of famer, which he never was.

Bodhi, Namath lowered the bar plenty.  One big win does not a HOF career make...unless you're Broadway Joe (don't get me wrong, I love the guy!)...but HOF calibre?    
Jim Kelly aint too much better either.  So would Donovan "lower the bar?"  I say no, it's already been lowered. 
I'm not saying Donovan's a lock by any means.  3 more years of what happened in Washington last season =  no chance.  3 more years with stellar numbers combined with another Championship or Super Bowl appearance?  He'd be in.
btw, everybody thought Favre was done before his 33td, 7int 2009, one pass away from a Super Bowl. 
I think McNabb is capable of some very good seasons on the right team.
1-Minnesota (get rid of Turdvaris, let Donovan mentor Webb)
2-San Fran (this team has talent, just insert a qb to run the West Coast O)
3-Miami (Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess...solid running game...only obstacle is a very tough division with the Pats and Jets)

Jim Kelly was awesome, far better than McNabb.  Joe Namath shouldnt be in, but the only thing that matters in this league is winning championships, and that Jets championship was and still is the most significant in NFL history.  Going to title games means shit, you have to WIN the Super Bowl.  Going to the Super Bowl is an accomplishment, thats a good year, but you have to win it.  If you dont win a title you better have ridiculous numbers to be HOF worthy

[Axl4Prez2004]

Donovan could barley get to the Super Bowl when he was in his prime...he is done now..Personally as of right now I dont think he is a hall of famer, if he were to get in that would lower the bar significantly.  He was a solid quarterback for a number of years, even very good at times...but in my opinion you have to be great to be a hall of famer, which he never was.

Bodhi, Namath lowered the bar plenty.  One big win does not a HOF career make...unless you're Broadway Joe (don't get me wrong, I love the guy!)...but HOF calibre?    
Jim Kelly aint too much better either.  So would Donovan "lower the bar?"  I say no, it's already been lowered. 
I'm not saying Donovan's a lock by any means.  3 more years of what happened in Washington last season =  no chance.  3 more years with stellar numbers combined with another Championship or Super Bowl appearance?  He'd be in.
btw, everybody thought Favre was done before his 33td, 7int 2009, one pass away from a Super Bowl. 
I think McNabb is capable of some very good seasons on the right team.
1-Minnesota (get rid of Turdvaris, let Donovan mentor Webb)
2-San Fran (this team has talent, just insert a qb to run the West Coast O)
3-Miami (Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess...solid running game...only obstacle is a very tough division with the Pats and Jets)

Jim Kelly was awesome, far better than McNabb.  Joe Namath shouldnt be in, but the only thing that matters in this league is winning championships, and that Jets championship was and still is the most significant in NFL history.  Going to title games means shit, you have to WIN the Super Bowl.  Going to the Super Bowl is an accomplishment, thats a good year, but you have to win it.  If you dont win a title you better have ridiculous numbers to be HOF worthy

I agree with you Bodhi on Namath.  Namath is to football what Maris was to baseball...and baseball made the right call.  One year, one feat does not a HOF career make.

I bolded 2 lines above that I would love to hear your take on Bodhi.  To say Jim Kelly had a "far better" career than McNabb is saying a lot. 
Career passer rating:  McNabb 85.7  #20
                                  Kelly    84.3   #23

Post-season passer rating:  McNabb 80.0  #23
                                          Kelly     72.3  #41
(rankings are out of qb's with at least 1500 pass attempts in reg. season, and 150 in postseason play)

TD's-Ints's:  They both started about the same number of games:  Kelly 160 games, McNabb 155 games.

Kelly      237-175.
McNabb 230-115.  (virtually the same # of td's thrown...but I doubt Donovan's going to throw 60 more interceptions before he throws 7 more touchdown passes )

Postseason Records as starters
McNabb:  9-7
Kelly:      9-8

Passing Yards:
McNabb   36,250
Kelly       35,467

Rushing:
McNabb   3,400 yards, 5.6 yards/carry, 28 td's
Kelly        1,049 yards, 3.5 yards/carry, 7 td's


To say Jim Kelly was "far better" than McNabb in my opinion, is ridiculous. 
Don't get me wrong, I loved Jim Kelly.  Great player, and a legit Hall of Famer. 
McNabb is a great player approaching the twilight of his career.  If he plays things smart, and resists the urge to value the dollar amount of his next contract over the best situation (i.e. Minnesota, Miami, or San Fran), he will find himself in Canton.






                                 

[D]

Timeout hold the phone GIlee

i appreciate your spin but let's report the entire story on Philly

1. their Defense was decimated with injuries

2. they went 8-2 with mike Vick as the starter. he lost to only chicago and Minnesota. so if Vick starts all 16 games, they easily go no worse than 12-4. Mcnabb is just old,fat, out of shape. Kind of ironic he is doing a DR Pepper commercial where he is getting a big pizza delivered.


That being said, If Jim Kelly is a Hall of Famer, McNabb is definitely a Hall of Famer.

[Bodhi]

Donovan could barley get to the Super Bowl when he was in his prime...he is done now..Personally as of right now I dont think he is a hall of famer, if he were to get in that would lower the bar significantly.  He was a solid quarterback for a number of years, even very good at times...but in my opinion you have to be great to be a hall of famer, which he never was.

Bodhi, Namath lowered the bar plenty.  One big win does not a HOF career make...unless you're Broadway Joe (don't get me wrong, I love the guy!)...but HOF calibre?    
Jim Kelly aint too much better either.  So would Donovan "lower the bar?"  I say no, it's already been lowered. 
I'm not saying Donovan's a lock by any means.  3 more years of what happened in Washington last season =  no chance.  3 more years with stellar numbers combined with another Championship or Super Bowl appearance?  He'd be in.
btw, everybody thought Favre was done before his 33td, 7int 2009, one pass away from a Super Bowl. 
I think McNabb is capable of some very good seasons on the right team.
1-Minnesota (get rid of Turdvaris, let Donovan mentor Webb)
2-San Fran (this team has talent, just insert a qb to run the West Coast O)
3-Miami (Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess...solid running game...only obstacle is a very tough division with the Pats and Jets)

Jim Kelly was awesome, far better than McNabb.  Joe Namath shouldnt be in, but the only thing that matters in this league is winning championships, and that Jets championship was and still is the most significant in NFL history.  Going to title games means shit, you have to WIN the Super Bowl.  Going to the Super Bowl is an accomplishment, thats a good year, but you have to win it.  If you dont win a title you better have ridiculous numbers to be HOF worthy

I agree with you Bodhi on Namath.  Namath is to football what Maris was to baseball...and baseball made the right call.  One year, one feat does not a HOF career make.

I bolded 2 lines above that I would love to hear your take on Bodhi.  To say Jim Kelly had a "far better" career than McNabb is saying a lot. 
Career passer rating:  McNabb 85.7  #20
                                  Kelly    84.3   #23

Post-season passer rating:  McNabb 80.0  #23
                                          Kelly     72.3  #41
(rankings are out of qb's with at least 1500 pass attempts in reg. season, and 150 in postseason play)

TD's-Ints's:  They both started about the same number of games:  Kelly 160 games, McNabb 155 games.

Kelly      237-175.
McNabb 230-115.  (virtually the same # of td's thrown...but I doubt Donovan's going to throw 60 more interceptions before he throws 7 more touchdown passes )

Postseason Records as starters
McNabb:  9-7
Kelly:      9-8

Passing Yards:
McNabb   36,250
Kelly       35,467

Rushing:
McNabb   3,400 yards, 5.6 yards/carry, 28 td's
Kelly        1,049 yards, 3.5 yards/carry, 7 td's


To say Jim Kelly was "far better" than McNabb in my opinion, is ridiculous. 
Don't get me wrong, I loved Jim Kelly.  Great player, and a legit Hall of Famer. 
McNabb is a great player approaching the twilight of his career.  If he plays things smart, and resists the urge to value the dollar amount of his next contract over the best situation (i.e. Minnesota, Miami, or San Fran), he will find himself in Canton.






                                 

Jim Kelly was far better because he went to 4 Super Bowls, and didnt throw up in any of them.   Also should have one that first one, that loss wasn't on him.

[faldor]

Not sure how much stock you can put in comparing stats from 2 different eras.  The league has become much more pass oriented, which obviously plays to McNabb's advantage.  Not to mention the Eagles have always been a pass heavy team under Andy Reid.  Jim Kelly had Thurman Thomas to hand the ball to.  McNabb didn't have that luxury.

[Bodhi]

Not sure how much stock you can put in comparing stats from 2 different eras.  The league has become much more pass oriented, which obviously plays to McNabb's advantage.  Not to mention the Eagles have always been a pass heavy team under Andy Reid.  Jim Kelly had Thurman Thomas to hand the ball to.  McNabb didn't have that luxury.

yeah everything faldor just said.  Corners used to be able to molest the receivers without there being a penalty.  Now a corner cant even breathe on a receiver.

[GeorgeSteele]

McNabb has had a good career, just not HOF worthy.  He makes good decisions with the ball, has a cannon for an arm and was a legitimate offensive force back when he could run.  The big problem with him was and still is that he can't hit the side of barn.  Other than that, he's great.  Seriously, I don't know how a guy who consistently throws the ball inaccurately can be considered a Hall of Fame candidate at a position where the primary job is to throw the ball accurately. 

[gilee7]

Not sure how much stock you can put in comparing stats from 2 different eras.  The league has become much more pass oriented, which obviously plays to McNabb's advantage.  Not to mention the Eagles have always been a pass heavy team under Andy Reid.  Jim Kelly had Thurman Thomas to hand the ball to.  McNabb didn't have that luxury.

This is partly true. But considering how much more pass-oriented the NFL is nowadays and how many passing attempts McNabb had in Philly, with a coach who seems to hate running the ball, that just makes his lack of interceptions even more impressive. I think he has the second greatest TD:INT ratio of all time just behind Brady.

But why are we talking about McNabb when we're just a few days away from the Superbowl???

[Axl4Prez2004]

Not sure how much stock you can put in comparing stats from 2 different eras.  The league has become much more pass oriented, which obviously plays to McNabb's advantage.  Not to mention the Eagles have always been a pass heavy team under Andy Reid.  Jim Kelly had Thurman Thomas to hand the ball to.  McNabb didn't have that luxury.

This is partly true. But considering how much more pass-oriented the NFL is nowadays and how many passing attempts McNabb had in Philly, with a coach who seems to hate running the ball, that just makes his lack of interceptions even more impressive. I think he has the second greatest TD:INT ratio of all time just behind Brady.

But why are we talking about McNabb when we're just a few days away from the Superbowl???

Yes Gilee, that was the point I was going to make...if the other side knows you're gonna throw it, do you think it makes for bigger numbers for your quarterback? 
McNabb's 58.9% completion % is still better than Elway's 56.9 career %.
230/115 is unbelievable for a td/int differential.
Steele, "can't hit the broad side of a barn" is pretty misleading.  Donovan puts the ball in places only the receiver's going to catch it.  If the receiver can't, the defense can't either. 
Gilee is right.  2 more quality seasons from Donovan...hopefully in a purple jersey!...will seal his golden ticket.   

btw, who's ready for a GREAT Super Bowl!  Watch out Steelers fans, I'm picking the Steelers to win it!   

[gilee7]

I hope the Packers win, and I was leaning toward picking them a couple weeks ago, but I have a feeling the Steelers are probably going to be SB champs yet again. I'm really surprised the Steelers are not the favorite anyway. They've been here and done it before. We don't yet how Rodgers and co. are going to play on the biggest stage of them all. I think the two-week layoff may have hurt the Packers, too, because they had all the momentum on their side. The Steelers have had a chance to heal up a bit and should be even stronger.

So, my prediction: Steelers 24--- Packers 20

[D]

ive never been a McNabb fan but he did get it done with a lot of Freddie Mitchell's etc. outside of TO and Desean last year, he never had much at WR.


Its weird, but i can't get too excited bout the Super Bowl. I hate both teams bout equally.

[faldor]

The Steelers obviously have the experience and toughness.  They're tough to bet against in a big spot, but they're banged up on the O-line, their secondary really isn't all that great.  And the Packers just seem to be playing the best football of any team right now.  I think overall, the Steelers may be a better team, but I think the Packers are the better team RIGHT NOW.  So I'm picking the Pack to win 23-18.

[GeorgeSteele]

Yes Gilee, that was the point I was going to make...if the other side knows you're gonna throw it, do you think it makes for bigger numbers for your quarterback? 
McNabb's 58.9% completion % is still better than Elway's 56.9 career %.
230/115 is unbelievable for a td/int differential.
Steele, "can't hit the broad side of a barn" is pretty misleading.  Donovan puts the ball in places only the receiver's going to catch it.  If the receiver can't, the defense can't either. 
Gilee is right.  2 more quality seasons from Donovan...hopefully in a purple jersey!...will seal his golden ticket.   

btw, who's ready for a GREAT Super Bowl!  Watch out Steelers fans, I'm picking the Steelers to win it!   

Again, you keep comparing to QBs from other eras.  58.9% is not good for high-percentage, short passes typical in the West Coast offenses he was running and it's not good for an era when rules were changed to benefit the passing game.  58.9% completion % and yards per attempt of 6.9 (two of the most important passing stats) are actually pretty mediocre.  Take away the lights-out 2004 season he had with TO (what QB didn't have good stats throwing to TO?) and those numbers would look pretty lame.

Other than Bears-Colts, for me this has been the least-anticipated Super Bowl.  I still don't know who I'm rooting for, have no clue who's going to win, and no result would surprise me (either team winning a blowout, close game, high/low scoring, etc).  Anyway... Steelers 23 - Packers 9.       

[sandman]

The Steelers obviously have the experience and toughness.  They're tough to bet against in a big spot, but they're banged up on the O-line, their secondary really isn't all that great.  And the Packers just seem to be playing the best football of any team right now.  I think overall, the Steelers may be a better team, but I think the Packers are the better team RIGHT NOW.  So I'm picking the Pack to win 23-18.

i agree 100%. i'm really convinced GB is gonna win. i even like your score. i was thinking 20-12.

i hate both teams. i'll be watching primarily for my block pool.

[Bodhi]

As a Raider fan I know im not supposed to, but I love the Pittsburgh Steelers.  They do things the right way and are the greatest franchise in the NFL post merger(thats not even debatable).  Im going to go with the Steelers, 27-17.  I feel they had a much tougher road to the Super Bowl than Green Bay, who really went through a couple of softy's on their way to the big game.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Yes Gilee, that was the point I was going to make...if the other side knows you're gonna throw it, do you think it makes for bigger numbers for your quarterback? 
McNabb's 58.9% completion % is still better than Elway's 56.9 career %.
230/115 is unbelievable for a td/int differential.
Steele, "can't hit the broad side of a barn" is pretty misleading.  Donovan puts the ball in places only the receiver's going to catch it.  If the receiver can't, the defense can't either. 
Gilee is right.  2 more quality seasons from Donovan...hopefully in a purple jersey!...will seal his golden ticket.   

btw, who's ready for a GREAT Super Bowl!  Watch out Steelers fans, I'm picking the Steelers to win it!   

Again, you keep comparing to QBs from other eras.  58.9% is not good for high-percentage, short passes typical in the West Coast offenses he was running and it's not good for an era when rules were changed to benefit the passing game.  58.9% completion % and yards per attempt of 6.9 (two of the most important passing stats) are actually pretty mediocre.  Take away the lights-out 2004 season he had with TO (what QB didn't have good stats throwing to TO?) and those numbers would look pretty lame.

Other than Bears-Colts, for me this has been the least-anticipated Super Bowl.  I still don't know who I'm rooting for, have no clue who's going to win, and no result would surprise me (either team winning a blowout, close game, high/low scoring, etc).  Anyway... Steelers 23 - Packers 9.       

Sorry Steele.  Ya can't just take away the man's best season in his prime just because he was given a HOF wr for one season. 
Think about the garbage he was throwing to the rest of his career.
Throwing to Thrash, Pinkston, and G. Lewis...and maintaining an incredible td to int ratio...that's easy to do?  I don't think so.
Do we fault Jim Kelly for having a probable HOF wr in Andre Reed?
Does Brady throw 50 td's in 1 season without Randy?

Joe Namath threw 47 more interceptions than he did touchdowns.  173 to 220.  I don't care what era you're playing in, that's below average.
It's incredibly subjective.
Namath's 1 Super Bowl victory makes up for the -47 differential in td-ints and 2 playoff appearances?
Does McNabb's +115 differential, 2 to 1 td:int ratio, and perennial playoff appearances (with a +.500 record) make up for the pedestrian 58.9% completion %?
I think so.
HOF doesn't require perfection.  100 years from now, Montana and Brady busts will be there alongside Namath, Kelly, and Moon. 


Now, for Sunday's game, I had a dream last night.  I swear to you, it was quite vivid.  I saw the score on the television...the game was not over yet, and the final score was 35-22 Packers.
I remembered that because I remember being surprised. 
I still think the Steelers win...should be a good game.