NFL 2010 Season

[D]

Here is how I'd fix the Cowboys;

http://www.simplysports.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=opinion&thread=49&page=1

[faldor]

 The Patriots AND Vikings will not miss Moss one bit.  Count on it.

    In other news, women are more attractive without tits.

Tell me how in the world the Vikings are going to miss Moss?  They went 1-3 with him.  The only way they'll miss him is if they only win 1 game the rest of the year.  You can rattle off stats all you want.  The only thing that really matters is putting up numbers in the WIN column.  Randy made absolutely no difference in that area for the Vikings.  That is fact, not opinion.  You really can't debate that.

And people keep saying Randy can't play defense.  True.  But has anyone noticed how the Patriots defense is playing world's better since Randy left?  Did anyone notice how much better the Viking defense played before Randy arrived?  Are those 2 situations completely coincidental?  Possibly.  But let's keep an eye on how the Viking team and defense responds.

I'm sorry, but a lot of that makes no sense.

So, the Vikings are already better off without Moss by winning 1 game? Really?  Arent' you ignoring the possibility that there might be a greater likelihood of them winning more games had he stayed than they end up winning without him?  Which wouldn't be the craziest thing to have ever happened given that:  (1) he would have had more time to learn the offense; (2) the soft part of the Vikings schedule just started; and (3) he's Randy Fucking Moss.

And now he makes the defense play worse?  What? 

In terms of stats, yes, of course they can be manipulated, but contrary to what's always drilled into our heads, other stats besides wins/losses do matter.  Why?  Because determining how good (or bad) a team is sometimes not as simple as looking at its record.  Perhaps if you noticed that the Pats' offensive yardage production has plummeted without Moss, you would have seen a blowout loss to the Browns coming (you probably still wouldn't have; that was kind of surprising, but not really). 

Anyway, forget stats, I don't feel that I should have to out-nerd everyone with numbers that anyone can pull off of http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ in order to state the obvious -- any team would be worse off by losing a Hall-of-Fame talent.  Really, it's pretty obvious, let's not over-complicate things. 

Listen, we've beat this subject to death.  Both the Patriots AND Vikings are better off WITHOUT Randy Moss the way he was going about things.  You give me a Randy Moss who's determined and playing at near 100% effort, then obviously both teams are better WITH him.  But he wasn't doing that.  He was becoming a malcontent with both teams, and that is why he was cut loose.  Obviously he's extremely talented and is still one of the best WR's in the game despite his advanced age.  Randy has a history of "quitting" on his teams in the last year of his contract, outside of 2007 of course.  He was heading down that path, not sure why you can't see or admit that.  I know he's better than Brandon Tate (nice drop yesterday when it hit you right in the numbers Brandon).  I know he's better than Bernard Berrian or Hank/Kendra Baskett.  I'm not delusional.  It's the situation, more than the talent.  And not to back off my statement but the Vikings are going to be a tough team to judge the rest of the way.  The team still appears to be a mess, despite the win yesterday.  What is with the Vikings and their press conferences?  They just say too much.  First Randy praising the Patriots, then Brett being critical of Moss, now Childress taking a dig at Favre yesterday.  They just never learn.  They do have an easier schedule ahead, so they could win enough to get back in it, and they probably could've won with Moss too.  It's also possible the team could sputter to the finish line.  I'm not convinced a comeback win at home against a below average Arizona team is a sign of great things to come.

[GeorgeSteele]

^When you say 'the way he was going about things' -- he burned Revis for a long touchdown earlier this season and also had an incredible TD catch in his first game with the Vikings.  You can't do those things in the NFL when you're dogging it. 

So why does a great player like him get cut?  I don't think it's because anyone thought he was quitting on the season.  I don't think we have the whole story in NE, but as for Minnesota, he was cut because he openly said the coach should be fired.  Although that's 100% true, that's insubordination and Childress would never even get an assistant's job in the league again if he let that go.  So cutting him was good for Childress -- not for the team. 

[tim_m]

Wade out Garrett in for Dallas. Jerry Jones just doesn't get it. He is has got to be one of the stupidest owners out there. The whole coaching staff as well as Romo the homo have to go period.

[faldor]

Moss beat Revis on that play, and Revis was just coming back from injury AND pulled his hamstring on that play.  It was a great catch, but after Revis left he was completely shut down by Cromartie, and you could question his effort in the second half. Brady was forcing him the ball, which hurt the offense. IMO, they would've been better off without him, especially in the second half.  He openly spoke about his contract and obviously was placing himself above the team.  The Patriots roster is filled with young, impressionable players.  The precedent that Randy was setting, was not conducive to winning.  And things didn't get any better in Minnesota.  I don't care how much you think your coach should be fired.  It's not the place of any player to make such comments.

[GeorgeSteele]

Moss beat Revis on that play, and Revis was just coming back from injury AND pulled his hamstring on that play.  It was a great catch, but after Revis left he was completely shut down by Cromartie, and you could question his effort in the second half.

He was shut down by Cromartie, the deep safety and the linebacker shadowing him inside.  Which was also how the Pats played him last week.  Why dedicate 3 guys to a quitter?

Brady was forcing him the ball, which hurt the offense.

That's on Brady. And maybe the weak play-calling.

He openly spoke about his contract and obviously was placing himself above the team.

He spoke about his contract because he felt had no choice.  A free agent's only leverage is walking to sign with another team.  In Moss's case, he didn't want to play anywhere else.  He loved New England.  Seeing that they wouldn't commit to him long-term while far inferior players were getting better deals is understandably frustrating.  None of that means he was placing himself above the team.

The Patriots roster is filled with young, impressionable players.  The precedent that Randy was setting, was not conducive to winning. 

He worked hard and he played great football.  Nothing else sets a better example to the young guys or is more conducive to winning

And things didn't get any better in Minnesota.  I don't care how much you think your coach should be fired.  It's not the place of any player to make such comments.

Be that as it may, he was right.  The moment Childress gets fired, the Vikings will have improved.

[D]

yeah and in all fairness to Moss, they did have to come from behind to narrowly beat the shitty fucking Arizona Cardinals in OT.

so Im not sure one can say they are better based on that.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Moss beat Revis on that play, and Revis was just coming back from injury AND pulled his hamstring on that play.  It was a great catch, but after Revis left he was completely shut down by Cromartie, and you could question his effort in the second half.

He was shut down by Cromartie, the deep safety and the linebacker shadowing him inside.  Which was also how the Pats played him last week.  Why dedicate 3 guys to a quitter?

Brady was forcing him the ball, which hurt the offense.

That's on Brady. And maybe the weak play-calling.

He openly spoke about his contract and obviously was placing himself above the team.

He spoke about his contract because he felt had no choice.  A free agent's only leverage is walking to sign with another team.  In Moss's case, he didn't want to play anywhere else.  He loved New England.  Seeing that they wouldn't commit to him long-term while far inferior players were getting better deals is understandably frustrating.  None of that means he was placing himself above the team.

The Patriots roster is filled with young, impressionable players.  The precedent that Randy was setting, was not conducive to winning. 

He worked hard and he played great football.  Nothing else sets a better example to the young guys or is more conducive to winning

And things didn't get any better in Minnesota.  I don't care how much you think your coach should be fired.  It's not the place of any player to make such comments.

Be that as it may, he was right.  The moment Childress gets fired, the Vikings will have improved.

Great post Steele.  Let me also add...when folks lump Randy in with a real a-hole like TO, I think they are making a mistake.  TO called out his quarterback...multiple times.  I don't ever remember Randy calling out Brady...maybe one of the shitty guys like Walter or Tuiasosop in Oakland (but honestly I don't even remember that), or Culpepper, or Cunningham.
Steele's got it right.  Randy was insubordinate.  Chilly did the right thing for himself and the wrong thing for the organization.
We WILL be better off without Chilly.

btw, I'll try not to outnerd anybody again!     Seriously though, Randy is a stud in both regular season games and postseason games.  His 150+ career touchdowns were not all scored up 28 points already. 

Also, I watched every play of the Cards-Vikes.  Wow.  Peterson, Harvin, and Fitzgerald just jump off the screen at you.  Adrian's power, Harvin's acceleration, and Fitzy's hands/body control...what beautiful things to watch.  Too bad for Fitz that Derek Anderson sucks ass.  The Vikes couldn't mount a pass rush to save their life the whole freakin' game...up to the last half of the 4th quarter.  Once the Vikes scored the td to get them within 7 with 3 minutes and change left, that's when both the crowd, the Vikes D-line, and Derek Anderson's nerves all rose up!  Last year our d-line made up for a weak secondary...this year our d-line is not pressuring qb's, and our secondary is worse due to injuries.
Also, as immobile as he was last season, Grandpa's even worse due to his ankle this year.  Sacks are going to happen...but he's getting killed out there week in week out.  Every fucking week is like watching Kirk Gibson step out of the dugout in the bottom of the 9th down a run.  The penis texting jokes are overshadowing what is one of the most compelling sports stories I've ever seen.  I respect Gehrig and Ripken, but the true Iron Man out there is one Brett Favre.  I'm not a praying man...but the thought of Julius Peppers out there laying a bad hit on favre scares the crap outta me. 

 

[faldor]

Moss beat Revis on that play, and Revis was just coming back from injury AND pulled his hamstring on that play.  It was a great catch, but after Revis left he was completely shut down by Cromartie, and you could question his effort in the second half.

He was shut down by Cromartie, the deep safety and the linebacker shadowing him inside.  Which was also how the Pats played him last week.  Why dedicate 3 guys to a quitter?

Brady was forcing him the ball, which hurt the offense.

That's on Brady. And maybe the weak play-calling.

He openly spoke about his contract and obviously was placing himself above the team.

He spoke about his contract because he felt had no choice.  A free agent's only leverage is walking to sign with another team.  In Moss's case, he didn't want to play anywhere else.  He loved New England.  Seeing that they wouldn't commit to him long-term while far inferior players were getting better deals is understandably frustrating.  None of that means he was placing himself above the team.

The Patriots roster is filled with young, impressionable players.  The precedent that Randy was setting, was not conducive to winning. 

He worked hard and he played great football.  Nothing else sets a better example to the young guys or is more conducive to winning

And things didn't get any better in Minnesota.  I don't care how much you think your coach should be fired.  It's not the place of any player to make such comments.

Be that as it may, he was right.  The moment Childress gets fired, the Vikings will have improved.

Great post Steele.  Let me also add...when folks lump Randy in with a real a-hole like TO, I think they are making a mistake.  TO called out his quarterback...multiple times.  I don't ever remember Randy calling out Brady...maybe one of the shitty guys like Walter or Tuiasosop in Oakland (but honestly I don't even remember that), or Culpepper, or Cunningham.
Steele's got it right.  Randy was insubordinate.  Chilly did the right thing for himself and the wrong thing for the organization.
We WILL be better off without Chilly.

btw, I'll try not to outnerd anybody again!     Seriously though, Randy is a stud in both regular season games and postseason games.  His 150+ career touchdowns were not all scored up 28 points already. 

Also, I watched every play of the Cards-Vikes.  Wow.  Peterson, Harvin, and Fitzgerald just jump off the screen at you.  Adrian's power, Harvin's acceleration, and Fitzy's hands/body control...what beautiful things to watch.  Too bad for Fitz that Derek Anderson sucks ass.  The Vikes couldn't mount a pass rush to save their life the whole freakin' game...up to the last half of the 4th quarter.  Once the Vikes scored the td to get them within 7 with 3 minutes and change left, that's when both the crowd, the Vikes D-line, and Derek Anderson's nerves all rose up!  Last year our d-line made up for a weak secondary...this year our d-line is not pressuring qb's, and our secondary is worse due to injuries.
Also, as immobile as he was last season, Grandpa's even worse due to his ankle this year.  Sacks are going to happen...but he's getting killed out there week in week out.  Every fucking week is like watching Kirk Gibson step out of the dugout in the bottom of the 9th down a run.  The penis texting jokes are overshadowing what is one of the most compelling sports stories I've ever seen.  I respect Gehrig and Ripken, but the true Iron Man out there is one Brett Favre.  I'm not a praying man...but the thought of Julius Peppers out there laying a bad hit on favre scares the crap outta me. 

 

I'm pretty sure Cromartie shut Randy down without all that much help.  The Patriots and most all other teams besides the Jets use multiple guys on him, but the Jets pretty much play him straight up.  And Revis owned him in the past, and Cromartie had his number that day.  Randy did get a little revenge on Cromartie with the Vikings as he did catch a TD against him, but aside from that catch he didn't have that big a game.

I agree it was Brady's fault for looking towards Moss too much.  But here's the problem.  When you've got a talent like Moss on your team and you see him make these amazing one handed grabs, you feel like you can just throw it up there and he'll come down with it.  It worked to perfection in 2007, but as teams caught on and Brady continued to key on Randy, it became less effective.  Now I'm not saying it made them ineffective.  But Brady, and any QB is better when they throw to the open receiver and not trying to force it into double and triple coverage.  Pretty basic stuff. 

How do you know how hard Randy practiced?  Did you attend any practices.  Because I've heard quite the opposite.  And Randy absolutely put himself before the team.  How else can you describe someone taking 10+ minutes after a big week 1 victory in which Wes Welker made an unbelievable comeback from injury and had 2 TD's, to talk about his contract status?  Unprompted I might add.  Randy pretty much handles his own press conferences these days.  That pretty much sounds like putting himself above the team.  And I really didn't have a problem with anything he said that day, but the timing was just atrocious.  Then Belichick spoke to him and asked him not to bring up his contract anymore.  He agreed, yet he still brought it up after he agreed not to.

He also hasn't played all that great this year.  His numbers are WAY down.  He's basically a decoy at this point.  Now I'll repeat, I'd take him back in a heartbeat even if he's just a decoy because he provides that threat, IF he could put forth the effort he did his first 2 1/2 years in New England.  Things were beginning to go downhill, so they let him go.

That's pretty much it.  You can keep disagreeing with me, but you're not going to sway me one bit.  Obviously I'm not swaying you either, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Faldor, please know it's always respectful.  As I stated many times b4, I respect all your opinions...doesn't mean I always agree!  But I respect your opinions immensely.
Now, on the Moss front...your argument would be a lot stronger had Welker caught a touchdown since the Moss trade.
With Randy on the field, Welker pulled down 3 touchdowns in the first 2 games.
Without Randy, he's got the goose egg.
Percy Harvin, same thing.  With Randy drawing coverage away, Percy scored 3 td's.  Without Randy, just 1.

I'll be monitoring N'England's offensive production throughout the season.  Should be interesting.
 

[faldor]

Faldor, please know it's always respectful.  As I stated many times b4, I respect all your opinions...doesn't mean I always agree!  But I respect your opinions immensely.
Now, on the Moss front...your argument would be a lot stronger had Welker caught a touchdown since the Moss trade.
With Randy on the field, Welker pulled down 3 touchdowns in the first 2 games.
Without Randy, he's got the goose egg.
Percy Harvin, same thing.  With Randy drawing coverage away, Percy scored 3 td's.  Without Randy, just 1.

I'll be monitoring N'England's offensive production throughout the season.  Should be interesting.
 

I gotcha.  It's all in fun.  We just seem to be running in circles here.  D and I on one side, you and GeorgeSteele on the other.

Keep in my mind that Welker is less than a year removed from major surgery on his torn ACL/MCL.  I think his lack of production this year is more due to his not being near 100% more than it does the lack of Randy Moss.  Last year he had 7 games where he caught 10 or more balls, and 10 games with 8 or more catches.  This year his high is 8, which he did twice WITH Randy on the field.  His first game without Randy he did have 7 catches, but the last 3 games have been severely lacking.  I'm sure he's missing Moss a bit, but trust me he's nowhere near 100%.  Plus the Patriots have more options this year.  The last few years it was Moss, Welker, Faulk or bust.  Now they've got the 2 TE's, notably Hernandez, and Woodhead.  So it's kind of hard to gauge.  There has been talk though that he's just not right, and I'm not sure why they don't try to use Edelman more in the offense. 

And trust me, I never felt the Patriots offense was better without Moss.  I'm not crazy.  Although going into the game this week they had averaged slightly more points per game on offense than they did with Moss.  They have to play differently, spread the ball around, and actually catch the ball when it hits them in the hands/numbers.  The number of drops this week was unacceptable.  Not to mention the horrendous showing by the defense.  I said when they traded Moss that they were only going to go as far as their defense allowed them to.  They played GREAT the last 4 games, but yesterday they were just awful.  I hope it was just an aberration, and I think it was.  Possibly looking ahead to @Pitt and home against Indy.  But we'll see.

And Harvin's game stepped up when Moss arrived.  But how much of that had to do with him getting healthy and/or more comfortable in the offense?  I mean he had a season high 9 receptions for a season high 126 yards without Moss this week on a supposedly bum ankle.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Faldor, I just watched this interesting video at PFT.com.  Rodney Harrison (a Randy Moss teammate, there in the locker room and training room) has some things to say...check this out, it's quick:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/40063733#40063560

btw, I like Harrison on camera as an analyst.  He has a good presence unlike a lot of former players who just can't do it well.

[tim_m]

I guess Moss is a more popular topic here then Phillips being out in Dallas 

[GeorgeSteele]

so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

When in Rome

[D]

Ok guys, my trade deadline is Friday

We keep 3 offensive guys. I had the rule changed where we can now keep 3 at any position.

i traded Miles Austin for Rashard Mendenhaal and am now feeling like a genius

anyhow here are my options. Please give me your opinions.

i can keep:
Mendenhaal,McFadden and Steven Jackson

OR
I can keep Mike Vick and 2 rb's.


the way Vick is playing, he is turning into a keeper QB.

OR

at the moment i am 6-3, one game out of first and tied for 2nd. I have NO tight End. that position has killed me all season.

so i can: trade 2 of my keeper RB's for 1 Keeper RB and a good TE


and keep 2 rbs and Vick

give me some help. don't want to blow my future doing the wrong thing.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I guess Moss is a more popular topic here then Phillips being out in Dallas 

Probably because the Phillips thing was so predictable...when Moss was waived by Childress, it was kind of nuts. 

On D's issue, there's no guarantee Vick stays with the Eagles.  In fact, on the way home from work today I heard chatter that Daniel Snyder would be willing to pay LOTS of money for the services of one Michael Vick if he becomes a free agent at the end of the season.  As a Redskin, Vick's fantasy value takes a big hit.  As an Eagle, the sky's the limit with DeSean and Maclin. 

On the TE front, is being down 1 tight end going to be the be-all end-all this week?  Is it forecasted to be super tight?
Trade deadline is Friday, but do you have to declare keepers by then?  If not, I'd keep 'em all.  Can you just pick up a scrub tight end for the week? 
I can't think of a stud tight end good enough to be involved in a trade for any of your 3 rb's.

[D]

well another deal came across my proverbial table.

I have anquain Boldin  i can trade him for Tony Gonzalez.

going by projections, it will improve my team by 32 pts. I currently have Marcedes Lewis.

Here is my roster: Remember its PPR 1 pt per reception 10 yrds per point

QB: Vick/Brady
RB: Mendenhaal,McFadden,Jackson,Blount,Woodhead
WR: Boldin,Collie,Amendola,Bess,Jacoby Ford,Woodhead


we play 1 rb 1 wr and 3 W/R

so if i trade Boldin my starting lineup for the rest of the season looks like:

QB: Vick
RB Mendenhaal
WR Collie
TE Gonzalez
W/R McFadden
W/R Steven Jackson
W/R  whoever based on matchup Amendola,Bess and Woodhead are PPR monsters.  Blount has potential as well to do things based on some favorable matchups he has.

[D]

I guess Moss is a more popular topic here then Phillips being out in Dallas 

Probably because the Phillips thing was so predictable...when Moss was waived by Childress, it was kind of nuts. 

On D's issue, there's no guarantee Vick stays with the Eagles.  In fact, on the way home from work today I heard chatter that Daniel Snyder would be willing to pay LOTS of money for the services of one Michael Vick if he becomes a free agent at the end of the season.  As a Redskin, Vick's fantasy value takes a big hit.  As an Eagle, the sky's the limit with DeSean and Maclin. 

On the TE front, is being down 1 tight end going to be the be-all end-all this week?  Is it forecasted to be super tight?
Trade deadline is Friday, but do you have to declare keepers by then?  If not, I'd keep 'em all.  Can you just pick up a scrub tight end for the week? 
I can't think of a stud tight end good enough to be involved in a trade for any of your 3 rb's.

Imagine Vick in Arizona with Fitzgerald! WOW! I wish Dallas would trade Romo and sign Vick. Vick with dez,Miles and Felix Jones. WOW! Hell Minnesota sure could use Vick. That would be explosive,electric offense. Vick,AP,Rice,Harvin  HOLY SHIT

[faldor]

so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

When in Rome

That expression doesn't really apply to what I'm talking about.

Nice Anchorman reference.  Caught that on TV over the weekend and I just had to watch, AGAIN.  Still one of my favorites.

[faldor]

well another deal came across my proverbial table.

I have anquain Boldin  i can trade him for Tony Gonzalez.

going by projections, it will improve my team by 32 pts. I currently have Marcedes Lewis.

Here is my roster: Remember its PPR 1 pt per reception 10 yrds per point

QB: Vick/Brady
RB: Mendenhaal,McFadden,Jackson,Blount,Woodhead
WR: Boldin,Collie,Amendola,Bess,Jacoby Ford,Woodhead


we play 1 rb 1 wr and 3 W/R

so if i trade Boldin my starting lineup for the rest of the season looks like:

QB: Vick
RB Mendenhaal
WR Collie
TE Gonzalez
W/R McFadden
W/R Steven Jackson
W/R  whoever based on matchup Amendola,Bess and Woodhead are PPR monsters.  Blount has potential as well to do things based on some favorable matchups he has.

I don't think I'd have that much faith in relying on Collie as your #1 WR.  He got knocked the F out this week, just after coming back from injury.  Who's to say if he'll hold up.  I'd probably stick with what you've got and lean towards keeping the 3 RB's.  With all that running around Vick does, he's always an injury risk as well.  Evidence earlier this season.