Paradox and Oxymoron an intrinsic and deliberate part of Axl's Epic Vision?

[SkeletorSerpent]

Is it just me or is Axl's Grandiose Vision for Gnr seem to be built around tension between two extremes or opposing forces/ideas? Case in point, take the name "Guns N Roses." You have two objects with two completely different connotations and in stark contrast with each other. They evoke different emotions and mental images. "Guns" and "roses" are two very contrasting objects, almost night and day. Roses are synonymous with romantic love, beauty, eroticism, fidelity, passion, and sex. They are organic and delicate in nature with natural, flowing lines and curves. Now take "guns" on the other hand, guns are a cold, metallic, dark, metal objects that are man-made; their lines are hard and symmetrical.
      The juxtaposition of the two objects generates a vivid and abrupt, emotional contrast. So just in their very name their is inherent tension, contradiction, and polarization.
Now, take the objects themselves (Roses and Guns) and analyze them. Roses have been traditionally viewed as "nature's paradox" in Western culture (Brett Michaels was not the first to remind us that "every rose has its thorn"). Roses have been constantly alluded to in poetry throughout the ages as nature's contradiction. Underneath their outward beauty, is the piercing "thorn."    

The world is hung with red and white
And blinding lights
And cupids fair.
Thornless roses scent the air.

Now guns are another paradox. They are used for safety, protection, and hunting and killing food/game to feed and sustain people. Guns are carried by cops to protect society. Our militaries use them to protect our country against terrorists. They are a "Life-Giving" force, and yet, guns are a "Life-Destroying" force. Guns are also a symbol of death, blood, destruction, murder, recklessness, and violence, and they are the target of a lot of legal controversy and Constitutional issues. Is all this a symbol for Axl's musical and artistic persona? Is it a complex master plan by Axl's Epic Vision for GNR?

Like "Guns" and "Roses," the band itself was a walking contradiction. They were rock music's enigma and constant paradox. On any given night they were the best band in the world or the worst band in the world. They could be beautiful like a red, rose, and then turn around and make you "bleed" with their thorns. But they always struck a contentious balance between the two extremes. Some concerts they would be "tight" as hell, and their musicianship and technicality were second to none, blasting out complex compositions and unique musical arrangements and layered harmonies. Or they could be late, lose, sloppy, drunk, and full of mistakes and obscenities. Intrinsic contradiction?

Similarly, their music has always been polarized. Some songs were dark, vulgar, and explicit, backed by demonic vocals, hissing, and screeching-- an angst-ridden cacophony, and yet they could turn around and produce angelic gems like "Don't Cry" and "November Rain," smooth and melodic and harmonious. Their smooth, catchy melodies have always contrasted sharply with Axl's rough vocals, sleezy lyrics, and heavy riffs.

Chinese Democracy is an oxymoron. The two words clash and do not fit together. It is an inherent contradiction, like Axl and like the band and like their music. Axl's new album seems to be filled with intrinsic oxymorons.

Is all this an intricately contrived plan by Axl? Does Axl create the tension within his band and his image, lyrics, music, and social messages, etc.? Is it an outward sacrament of Axl's artistic vision, soul, and spiritual battle? Is it an expression of his internal demons and emotional struggle to find clarity and peace of mind?

I don't know, Im just throwing it out there to see if I'm crazy or if anybody else agrees.

[Farid Bak]

Good Read, I think The Ying Yang in this case aplies as well, I dont like disecting or even trying to understand GNR and Axl I mostly enjoy it, and the beauty of it is that its a wide spread of feelings the music reaches, the images and sounds, you can pretty much find all kinds of colors and specialy contrasts that personaly for me fit well with most of my emotions.
Take for example Patience, how many of us have not sat and utter those words in real life situations, or Sorry, I had felt that line in my life many time "Im Sorry for  you, not Sorry for me" but I had never found the right words to express that feeling and well now I got even music to go along with it

[Annie]

Skeletor that was deep. Are you working on some sort of dissertation? I really enjoyed reading your post.

[helenluna]

I agree with you, completely. I have no idea if this is intentional, part of Axl's vision, but the final product can be read as a philosophy.

There's this constant opposite's tension in all about Guns N' Roses. Not just the name of the band or the contrast between hatred chants and epic love ballads, not only the absurd of Chinese Democracy's title, not just some lyrics that hints us towards the ups and downs, ins and outs of life (like Scraped). The list goes on and on. Sometimes I think GnR is an essay about the bipolarity of life itself, how we all are split into two: good and evil, right and wrong, sin and sanctity, the devil or God, love and hate. Then, it seems to talk about how we should endure the consequences of those choices, when we believe we chose right. And ultimately, it takes me to yin and yang, the quest for balance in life, and how should we acquire this peace without selling our souls, making the wrong choices.

[One.In.A.Million]

I think I understand what you are saying, but I'll give my take on this kind of subject. I remember somebody saying this a few years ago and I found it interesting.

It's that GN'Rs music is so unique that it sets its own rules and follows nobody. For example, if any other band did a song about city life in LA or even New York, it will most likely be a fun party song alot like Kiss, Motley Crue or Bon Jovi. But GN'Rs song about city life which is Welcome to the Jungle, is the complete opposite, it's much more real, and it focuses more on the dangers and temptations, than the fun and partying.

Same goes for Chinese Democracy, it focuses on a very important issue. The message in the song is very powerful and can be used to describe many other situations in the world, where people are killed for no reason. Axl's a true artist and writes about subjects that matter to him, so for him to outline the problems in China, shows he cares a great deal about freedom and human rights. That's why for me, Guns N' Roses have always been much more than just a rock band.

They are truly the opposite than most bands out there today, because they convey freedom, hope, justice, and can inspire people from all over the world.

 


Lee

[Jeramy]

to me the words guns and roses put together symbolize unbalanced love and hate

one extreme to the other... you can hear that in the music as well

just like sweet n sour, night and day or black and white

pretty much just like you said, lol

[Scree]

The name Guns n Roses comes from Axl Rose and Tracii Guns (LA Guns and Hollywood Rose).. so I don't think there was anything opposing about the initial vision. I think the names were combined because remnants of the 2 bands joined forces and it sounded like a killer name for a rock band.

As for guessing what Axls vision is, I'm not touching that with a barge pole.. The man himself is hard to read at the best of times, I'm just here for the ride as I've always been.

[jazjme]

That's basically my feeling, though the thought processes are fun to read. lol

[SkeletorSerpent]

"Sometimes I think GnR is an essay about the bipolarity of life itself, how we all are split into two: good and evil, right and wrong, sin and sanctity, the devil or God, love and hate. Then, it seems to talk about how we should endure the consequences of those choices, when we believe we chose right. And ultimately, it takes me to yin and yang, the quest for balance in life, and how should we acquire this peace without selling our souls, making the wrong choices" Well Said. Perhaps Axl hasn't done any of it deliberately or consciously, but the reality can be observed in so much of the band's music and actions that it is hard to ignore.
But like many have said, you can't put a label on Gnr or put Axl in a box and analyze him. Maybe deep down inside he is just a rocker at heart with no real intentions or motives or master schemes. But again, that would classify Axl too and perhaps nullify his genius. But is not that the sign of True Art? Creation that can't be labeled, classified, fully grasped, neatly explained, or understood in "one right way."

In closing, I do think helenluna and Farid Bak are on to something with the Yin Yang connection and the need for balance and harmony in life. I also think that there is an element in Gnr that is about rage, revolt, and ultimately finding redemption, which is often the story of every human. In an old interview, I remember Axl talking about Estranged, and he said something about how as human beings we are not asked to be born into this chaotic and evil world. We are thrust into creation and "catapulted" into a cold, empty, and indifferent universe full of pain and suffering and then trying to come to terms with that as an existential being. Man is inclined towards rage and rebellion once he realizes he is alone in the universe, so he struggles to find redemption in whatever he can (god, rock n roll, lovers, art, music, poetry, friendships, etc.) to help him cope and get through this world. Looking at Axl's life story, you can see a pattern of rage, rebellion, and redemption.

[Jeramy]

i can certainly relate to that 

[Annie]

i can certainly relate to that 

Me too. the 2 great loves of my life are HELLO KITTY and Axl Rose. I became obsessed with Hello Kitty shortly after 9/11.  Her sweet face just reminds me of all the good in this world.

[willow]

I try and take music for whatever I get out of it and not read into what they might be trying to say, but your post was a very interesting read. Better then the crap I have to read at mygnr. lol Sorry Eric I had to say that.
amyl

[helenluna]

Maybe deep down inside he is just a rocker at heart with no real intentions or motives or master schemes. But again, that would classify Axl too and perhaps nullify his genius. But is not that the sign of True Art? Creation that can't be labeled, classified, fully grasped, neatly explained, or understood in "one right way."

You're spot on with that statement. I tend to believe that the guys in Guns are there just living the moment, and not over thinking it. But as anything that comes out of geniuses, even when they're just having fun they end up sending a message to us. The true mark of geniality is that 100 years from now the legacy of the band will be alive, and people will be getting into these deep subjects, studying what they left to the world. I see why some people just wanna enjoy it right now and are uncomfortable with the idea of a "master plan", as you said, behind the band they dig. But for me, thinking of Axl's "vision" represents as much fun as listening to the tunes.

I think we are born into the world to be against it. We are thrown into an hostile environment and we're supposed to fight it to find peace. Life itself is tension and decisions, all the time. We grow to realize there are no right and wrong choices but only the amount of responsibility one is willing to take for those choices. Often when we choose the "right" we're letting life just toss us around, and when we choose what's said to be "wrong", we're rebelling. But why can't life be just the sum of it all, instead of individual acts? Where's the line that separates yin and yang and why do we have to choose a side? Who wrote the morals? Isn't it all our conscience? So if your conscience is fine, you are in balance.

IMO "Prostitute" is a song about conscience and being happy with your choices, whether other people think you're wrong or not. And Chinese Democracy is much deeper than the fame of its name.

[innocuous1]

Absolutely profound. 

At current I am unable to add value to this discussion.....I do, however, want to say THANK YOU SkeletorSerpent and helenluna for sharing your thoughts.....I appreciate it very much.  Please don't stop. 

[Moonlight J]

That's some interesting stuff, for sure. You guys watch Lost? That seems to be the underlying theme of the show. Wait a second....parallels between my favorite band and my favorite show, hmmmm.......

[willow]

Oh no don't bring Lost into it. We will never figure out anything. lol Yeah I am a Lost fan.

[helenluna]

Never watched Lost so I can't give my opinion on it 

[Gracie2006]

SkeletorSerpent...  My question is what were you on???  Hydro, X, acid or something better?

[bolton]

Totally disagree,i really doubt Axl and co were thinking about this stuff when guns were formed...probably they were high

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

While it is understood that the Guns N' Roses name was created behind the legacy of LA Guns and Hollywood Rose, I believe that the connection to their music was understood by Axl with Guns representing their harder side and the Rose representing their softer side.