2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

There's nothing definitive on Youk yet.  If he needs surgery his season will be over, but that's not known just yet.  They'll probably know more by the end of the week.  Certainly doesn't look good though.

[pilferk]

There's nothing definitive on Youk yet.  If he needs surgery his season will be over, but that's not known just yet.  They'll probably know more by the end of the week.  Certainly doesn't look good though.

I guess it's been reported that "multiple sources from within the organization" are saying he's going to need surgery, and will not be back.

I then heard, after I posted the above, that he was going somewhere for a second opinion.  Cleveland, maybe??? Though I don't know why he'd go there and I heard it in passing on a radio broadcst..  Maybe there's some sort of specialist out there??  Or maybe I just misheard.

[tim_m]

I was at the game, yesterday.  My 3 kids first game at the stadium.....

It's funny, my wife and I were at the game the day AFTER 599.  She predicted he'd hit it in the first inning, that day.

Fast forward to yesterday....and that's what he did.  She was just off on WHICH game we would be attending.

That's cool you and the family were there to witness it.

[Falcon]

Just heard on MLB Radio that Youkilis is indeed out for the season, tough blow although I don't think the Sox were going to be a factor (beyond spoiler) as far as the pennant races go.

Cool you and the fam were at the game yesterday Pilf, nice.

It was interesting listening to all the post 600 conversations throughout the media, a universal "yawn" by both talking heads and fans alike - Yank fans included..

Just an observation, but...

ARod maybe the most despised player this side of Barry Bonds, he's dug himself a PR hole he'll never get out of in the court of public opinion.

Seems as though the ball he hit into Monument Park will be about as close as he's gonna get to ever being recognized there let alone the HOF.

[pilferk]

It was a neat moment.

I understand the "yawns"....he made his own bed, he has to lie in the PR nightmare he created.

On the HOF, I have to say:  I'm for putting the guys who used (allegedly, admittedly, or definitively) in.  You can explain their link to the steroid era on their plaques, or whatever.  But denying them entry into the HOF (and I'm not just talking about Arod) actually, IMHO, harms the Hall almost as much as it harms those players legacy.

See, here's the thing:  The Steroid era happened.  Nothing MLB can do is going to make that go away.  And they, in some respects, helped foster the culture of PED use in the game.  I'm not going to sit here and say to embrace it, with open arms...but you can't just sweep it (and an era's worth of players) under the rug.  I understand it's a PR nightmare.  But, again, I feel the same way I do about A-rod:  They made this bed, they have to lie in it.

MLB has seen segregation, the dead ball era, widespread amphetamine and other drug use and TONS of other scandals and fiascos.  All of those things had an effect on players numbers.  Yet none of those players have been penalized by being held out of the HOF.  Nor should they have been.

 I get why the steroid use gets called out, louder and longer, than the other things: It effects a stat that's MUCH "sexier" and gets a lot more attention.  But, for example, those guys using uppers in the 70's were playing more games consecutively, hitting better, and recovering faster (or, rather, convincing their bodies they didn't need recovery) due to that drug use.  And there are known amphetamine users who are in the HOF.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4192628

Put Bonds in, and talk about Balco.

Put Sosa in, and talk about his alleged drug use.

Put A-rod in and talk about the whole sordid boli mess.

But don't try to ignore them.   Because baseball fans are too smart for that.  And all it really does is ignore the big pink elephant sitting in the corner...which everyone else already acknowledges is there.  It makes MLB and the HOF look ridiculous, IMHO.

Again, I get that people are angry.  I'm ticked about it, too.  Ticked about the players selfishness.  Ticked at MLB that they allowed it when it was obvious to pretty much everyone what was going on (but it was printing money for MLB).  But I'm not going to sit around, bury my head in the sand, and pretend it didn't happen.

But then, what do I know.  Not like I get a vote....

[Falcon]

I agree with everything you said pilf, the era shouldn't be swept under the rug as to those who have HOF credentials.

Clemens, Bonds, Arod - hell, Mac and Sammy literally saved the game in '98.

That said, there is a group of writers and HOF'ers that will just never
vote for someone who's admitted PED use.

The same group of writers who have indeed voted in players who were tweaked on greenies in the 60's and 70's and blow in the 80's.

A double standard to the nth degree.

[pilferk]

I agree with everything you said pilf, the era shouldn't be swept under the rug as to those who have HOF credentials.

Clemens, Bonds, Arod - hell, Mac and Sammy literally saved the game in '98.

That said, there is a group of writers and HOF'ers that will just never
vote for someone who's admitted PED use.

The same group of writers who have indeed voted in players who were tweaked on greenies in the 60's and 70's and blow in the 80's.

A double standard to the nth degree.

My HOPE is that many of those sports writers will have moved on/retired by the time some of these guys come up.  But, given that sports writers seem to continue their profession long past what I would term "advanced age", that hope may be a pipe dream.

With A-rod, he likely has about 20+ years until his "baseball writer ballot" eligibility will lapse.  Figure 5+ years in uniform, the waiting period, and then 15 years on the ballot.  And there's always the veterans committee, I guess...though I hold out little hope for that.

[pilferk]

Another bad call last night.  You know...I don't know how Selig can continue to ignore the obvious use of replay in baseball.  This season has been atrocious.  I don't know if there have been MORE bad calls this season than in most, or if they're just more obvious/more talked about/more high profile.

But it's been REALLY bad.  It's getting to the point where it's starting to hurt the sport, IMHO.

My run at a replay system:

You add a replay ump up in a box, somewhere.

Replay used on fair/foul calls and force/tag plays at 1st and home ONLY (the bases you can overrun), ONLY when a ball has been put in play (in other words, not for pick offs, caught stealings, etc).

On fair/foul calls, where the ball remains in play, the ump can award a ground rule single or double, at their discretion.

On fair/foul calls, where the ball goes out of play (the stands) the replay ump can award a ground rule double or home run (obviously, if it leaves the field of play in FAIR territory, it's a HR. Basically, the HR part is the same as it is, now).

If the replay ump feels a call requires review, he will send signal to the crew chief over wireless device. The replay ump then has a reasonable (2 min?) amount of time to relay his findings to the crew chief. If the replay ump can't make a determination in a reasonable time frame, the call on the field stands.

In addition, you start to enforce the rules that already exist limiting the time a pitcher has to come to the plate, when there are no men on base.

While you might see some slight increase in game time...I would bet you're going to see an average of 2 or 3 calls reviewed per game.

I don't think a challenge system works, unless there is some sort of penalty. And simply charging the dugout with a "mound visit" isn't enough of one. But there isn't anything else (short of forcing a substitution or pitching change...which is too harsh), really, you could do within the confines of the game.

And I don't think every close call should be reviewed. In the time it takes for the next batter to be to the plate, a replay has usually been put up on TV. I can't imagine that a replay ump wouldn't have the same capability (heck, my DVR could do it) to quickly determine if a review is even necessary.

Last, I think the current HR review procedure is awful. IT slows down the game, because you have to get three guys to conference, walk off the field, review the call in some little dinky room in the bowels of the stadium, walk back to the field, and then announce the findings. If that's what MLB envisions as implementation of replay...then you're dead on when you say it would slow the game down to much. But I think there is opportunity to enact a much better system that would NOT have much of an effect on game times.

I can deal with 4-6 min a game to get the calls right.

[Falcon]

..though I hold out little hope for that.

Agreed.

His short term HOF outlook (5-10 years after retirement) is less than zero - veterans committee induction slightly above that.

What exactly is criteria for momument park, or is there any?

With the Cards, number retirement is only given to those who are in the HOF and not all of those even qualify..

[pilferk]

Agreed.

His short term HOF outlook (5-10 years after retirement) is less than zero - veterans committee induction slightly above that.

What exactly is criteria for momument park, or is there any?

With the Cards, number retirement is only given to those who are in the HOF and not all of those even qualify..

There really isn't any criteria for monument park.  Mattingly is out there, for example.  It's more of a Yankees greats monument than it is a HOF who's who.

And not everyone in monument park has their number retired.  The flipside is true (if you have your number retired, you're in monument park), though.

If Alex plays another 5 years....and then you add 6 to that...he wouldn't be eligible for around 11 years, and he'd be on the ballots for another 15 years from that point.  I have to think that, at some point within that 26 year span, the "older" guys will be gone, and the "younger" guys (who seem to be more likely to vote for this type of player) will have taken over.  Maybe.

Right now, I think his chances with the current crop of writers, as you said, are zero.  It's tough to say what his chances with the writers between 11 and 26 years out will be.  I suspect they'll get better, the further out we get.

[pilferk]

Oswalt is apparently dealing with dead arm:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/roy-oswalt-has-a-dead-arm.php

Just what the Phillies wanted out of the guy they traded for.

[Falcon]

Oswalt is apparently dealing with dead arm:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/roy-oswalt-has-a-dead-arm.php

Just what the Phillies wanted out of the guy they traded for.

Interesting..

That's the same word the Cards advance scouting gave the front office before the trade deadline - allegedly...

Velocity down, command off etc..

[AxlsMainMan]

Went to the Red Sox/Blue Jays game last night with my Pops' - Twas anyone's game until Cito mysteriously pulled Scott Downs for Shawn Camp

[faldor]

Red Sox blew another big lead tonight and lost in walk off fashion for the second straight game.  To add insult to INJURY, Ellsbury apparently may have re-injured his ribs, left the game in the 4th inning and is flying to California for tests.  And later in the game Victor Martinez fouled a ball off his right foot and was noticeably hobbled, although he did stay in the game.  I'd highly doubt he'd be play tomorrow though and the way things have gone this season it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if he went back on the DL too.  All this and they still remain in the hunt for the Wild Card, 4 games back of Tampa.  Though they would be 2 games back if they didn't blow these last 2.

What a frustrating season.  Bring on football!

[tim_m]

Red Sox blew another big lead tonight and lost in walk off fashion for the second straight game.  To add insult to INJURY, Ellsbury apparently may have re-injured his ribs, left the game in the 4th inning and is flying to California for tests.  And later in the game Victor Martinez fouled a ball off his right foot and was noticeably hobbled, although he did stay in the game.  I'd highly doubt he'd be play tomorrow though and the way things have gone this season it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if he went back on the DL too.  All this and they still remain in the hunt for the Wild Card, 4 games back of Tampa.  Though they would be 2 games back if they didn't blow these last 2.

What a frustrating season.  Bring on football!

Your only saving grace is that Tampa has been struggling mightly as of late.

[cotis]

Well I'm hoping Baltimore keeps playing great, giving the Yankees some breathing room by beating the Sox/Rays and such. Though I believe they will pose a threat to the Yanks as well.

Really shows what a new manager can do.

[Jdog0830]

Sorry boys Yankies are going down!!!
I will be pissed if it turns out the Twins series is what fucked us out of 1st place again!!!!




GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
Joe

[pilferk]

Sorry boys Yankies are going down!!!
I will be pissed if it turns out the Twins series is what fucked us out of 1st place again!!!!




GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
Joe

Tonight is going to be the telling game, IMHO.  If the Yanks win, I think they take 2 of 3.  CC vs Danks tomorrow is, if things hold the way they have, an uphill climb for the White Sox.  Of course, with baseball..you never know.

I don't know WHAT to make of Sunday's game.  Nova looked good his last outing.  Floyd looks.....inconsistently consistent.  I'm banking on Nova having a more mediocre outing than his last go, but we'll see.

The good news (for the Yanks) is that the Sox and Rays are playing each other this weekend. 

Edit: Looks like Strausberg is going to have to have Tommy John.  Not good....

[AxlsMainMan]

Good news for the Yanks is they don't play the Jays again for a month

[tim_m]

Strasburg needs Tommy John surgery, ouch.