2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[cotis]

You guys think Pavano is worth taking a risk on, for Brad Lidge?

I picked up Lidge last week and am fielding offers for him since some people need some saves and such which he will (hopefully) deliver.

[D]

ill be honest, in real time, i kinda thought the guy was safe also.

[faldor]

You guys think Pavano is worth taking a risk on, for Brad Lidge?

I picked up Lidge last week and am fielding offers for him since some people need some saves and such which he will (hopefully) deliver.

I haven't been a fan of Pavano for some time, but I just checked out his stats earlier today and they're not too shabby.  He's actually done a pretty good job since leaving the Yanks.  Lidge was great 2 years ago but hasn't been very good since.  Depends on what you need I guess.  I'd say Lidge probably has a higher ceiling with more value, but Pavano has been more reliable the last couple of years.

[faldor]

ill be honest, in real time, i kinda thought the guy was safe also.

Yeah, it really wasn't that easy a call.  I mean, he WAS clearly out.  But in real time it looked like Galaraga bobbled the ball on the catch, which he did but not enough to have an outcome on the play.  I just would've expected Joyce to get caught up in the moment and call the guy out on such a close play.  I feel bad for the guy.  He took it really hard.  I'm sure if he could do it all over again, he'd make the "right" call.

[D]

I did n't see it till earlier today, so after an entire night of hearing the outrage etc, i was expecting some all time  just outlandish bullshit call

so when i saw the play.. i was like "people are upset over this?" sure it cost a perfect game, but that was as bang bang as u can get. i blame Cabrera i guess whoever was at first for hesitating on the throw.

[faldor]

I did n't see it till earlier today, so after an entire night of hearing the outrage etc, i was expecting some all time  just outlandish bullshit call

so when i saw the play.. i was like "people are upset over this?" sure it cost a perfect game, but that was as bang bang as u can get. i blame Cabrera i guess whoever was at first for hesitating on the throw.

Honestly I don't think Cabrera should've even gone after the ball.  I only saw the play a few times but he ranged over quite a bit.  If he stayed put, the 2B could've easily gotten to the ball, no?

[D]

thats a great point. im gonna find the video and see if i can tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QxxvUkezuI


faldor u are dead on the money. easy routine play for the 2nd baseman

[pilferk]

ill be honest, in real time, i kinda thought the guy was safe also.

Yeah, it really wasn't that easy a call.  I mean, he WAS clearly out.  But in real time it looked like Galaraga bobbled the ball on the catch, which he did but not enough to have an outcome on the play.  I just would've expected Joyce to get caught up in the moment and call the guy out on such a close play.  I feel bad for the guy.  He took it really hard.  I'm sure if he could do it all over again, he'd make the "right" call.

I'd agree...except for Joyce's explanation.

He though the runner beat the throw.  Not that the pitcher bobbled, or didn't have control of the ball.

In that sense......I think it was an easy call.  He just blew it.  And blew it BAD.  I think when the inevitable replay rules come into being (maybe in time for the playoffs), they should be called the "Joyce Rules" in his "honor".

I do agree, though....had the 1st basemen not been so anxious, the 2nd baseman clearly had an easier shot at the ball, and would have had an easy throw to 1st.

[C0ma]

Honestly what ever happened to make the play as close as it was doesn't matter... the score was 3-0 and the pitcher is 1 out away from the 21st perfect game in MLB history. The ump shouldn't have taken the oportunity to make the game about himself. In that situation unless the pitcher dropped the ball or the runner beat it out by a step or two, you call him out.

[Falcon]

I don't think the ump took " the opportunity to make the game about himself" at all - it's not like we're talking about Joe West, Bob Davidson, Ken Kaiser or Eric Gregg.  Joyce is a respected guy who made a mistake.

Agree with pilf on this one, if he thought there was a bobble that would be a different story
but thinking the runner beat the throw is just a really bad call.

Dude just fucked up and blew the call and will be remembered for it for baseball eternity, just ask Don Denkinger...

[faldor]

Yeah, that's a bad defense for Joyce.  I'd assume he was looking at the catch and not the bag, so that's why he missed it.  Either way, it's inexcusable.  Is it time to expand instant replay?  Make it like the NFL, give a manager 2 challenges a game?  One challenge?  I still think replays take way too long in the NFL.  In college it's bang bang, done in 30 seconds.  Yet the NFL takes the full 5 minutes allotted.  They could do it quickly in baseball too.  One look at that replay and you knew it was the wrong call, which is the case with most questionable plays.  Once in awhile there are some plays that are a little tougher to decipher, so that may slow the game down.  I know baseball purists won't like it, but it may be time.

[pilferk]

Yeah, that's a bad defense for Joyce.  I'd assume he was looking at the catch and not the bag, so that's why he missed it.  Either way, it's inexcusable.  Is it time to expand instant replay?  Make it like the NFL, give a manager 2 challenges a game?  One challenge?  I still think replays take way too long in the NFL.  In college it's bang bang, done in 30 seconds.  Yet the NFL takes the full 5 minutes allotted.  They could do it quickly in baseball too.  One look at that replay and you knew it was the wrong call, which is the case with most questionable plays.  Once in awhile there are some plays that are a little tougher to decipher, so that may slow the game down.  I know baseball purists won't like it, but it may be time.

2 Challenges per game, per manager.  Maybe if they fail the challenge, they have to make a pitching change?

Another "replay ump" in a box in the sky, watching the plays...none of this "3 guys go into a room" crap.

Boundry calls (fair/foul and home runs), base calls ONLY at 1st and home (the bases you can overrun) and/or ONLY on force outs.

No balls/strikes, no balks, no tag plays.

[faldor]

Yeah, that's a bad defense for Joyce.  I'd assume he was looking at the catch and not the bag, so that's why he missed it.  Either way, it's inexcusable.  Is it time to expand instant replay?  Make it like the NFL, give a manager 2 challenges a game?  One challenge?  I still think replays take way too long in the NFL.  In college it's bang bang, done in 30 seconds.  Yet the NFL takes the full 5 minutes allotted.  They could do it quickly in baseball too.  One look at that replay and you knew it was the wrong call, which is the case with most questionable plays.  Once in awhile there are some plays that are a little tougher to decipher, so that may slow the game down.  I know baseball purists won't like it, but it may be time.

2 Challenges per game, per manager.  Maybe if they fail the challenge, they have to make a pitching change?

Another "replay ump" in a box in the sky, watching the plays...none of this "3 guys go into a room" crap.

Boundry calls (fair/foul and home runs), base calls ONLY at 1st and home (the bases you can overrun) and/or ONLY on force outs.

No balls/strikes, no balks, no tag plays.

Sounds good to me.  Agree on the stirkes/balls.  Even though there are some umpires with horrible strike zones out there.  But if you start looking at that a) games would be 8 hours long, and b) there'd be no need for umpires at all, just make the call on the jumbotron.

[Falcon]

Here's some insight/ideas from Don Denkinger and Whitey Herzog from the St Louis Post Dispatch:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/A325AF0C5DA8756E86257738000C4AE6?OpenDocument

[Falcon]

Something to ponder as the dust clears from the Joyce incident.

What would public opinion/outcry be if the runner was as clearly safe as he was out and Joyce had called him out?

[GeorgeSteele]

Something to ponder as the dust clears from the Joyce incident.

What would public opinion/outcry be if the runner was as clearly safe as he was out and Joyce had called him out?

In that case, the only outcry would be heard from Cleveland, but few others would care. 

Also, did Gallaraga not get the benefit of at least one borderline strike during the game?  At least one excellent defensive play?  So much of what goes into a 'perfect' game are matters outside the pitcher's control, including an umpire's judgment.  The baseball gods need to be on your side for 27 outs, looks like they only smiled down on him for 26. 

[faldor]

Something to ponder as the dust clears from the Joyce incident.

What would public opinion/outcry be if the runner was as clearly safe as he was out and Joyce had called him out?

In that case, the only outcry would be heard from Cleveland, but few others would care. 

Also, did Gallaraga not get the benefit of at least one borderline strike during the game?  At least one excellent defensive play?  So much of what goes into a 'perfect' game are matters outside the pitcher's control, including an umpire's judgment.  The baseball gods need to be on your side for 27 outs, looks like they only smiled down on him for 26. 

I didn't see the game live, but from what I've heard the home plate umpire was being quite generous to Galaraga with the strike zone late in the game.  And Austin Jackson made a spectacular catch to start the 9th inning.  So he did get a lot of help, until out #27.

[AxlsMainMan]

How about those 'Jays?

[faldor]

Toronto has been surprisingly solid this year.  I keep expecting them to cool off and come back to reality, but they haven't yet.  A couple tough late inning losses to the Rays hurt them.  Thought maybe that'd do the trick, but they seemed to have bounced back from that even.  I still don't expect them to keep it up long term, but who knows.  What's with the power surge in Toronto?  Did they get a fresh shipment of PED's that nobody knows about?

[AxlsMainMan]

Toronto has been surprisingly solid this year.  I keep expecting them to cool off and come back to reality, but they haven't yet.  A couple tough late inning losses to the Rays hurt them.  Thought maybe that'd do the trick, but they seemed to have bounced back from that even.  I still don't expect them to keep it up long term, but who knows.  What's with the power surge in Toronto?  Did they get a fresh shipment of PED's that nobody knows about?

Vernon Wells is finally justifying his absurd contract this year, Fred Lewis was a killer steal from the Giants, Alex Gonzalez and Jose Bautista are off to terrific starts, and Lyle Overbay has finally learned how to hit a ball again.

Ricky Romero has shown some excellent chops in the absence of Doc too.