2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[GeorgeSteele]

Seems that the league in essence required McGwire's admission/apology as a pre-condition to him coming back to baseball.  When will MLB, Bud Selig and co. admit and apologize to knowing about the rampant steroid abuse during that era and doing nothing about it?   

Actually, 'doing nothing about it' is an understatement.  MLB was in the latrine after the 1994 strike and the steroids-fueled HR era that followed is what's credited for turning the league around.  So, I'd like to see the league acknowledge that it refused to do anything about steroids for a decade because they profited from the players' use of them.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Seems that the league in essence required McGwire's admission/apology as a pre-condition to him coming back to baseball. 

How so?

[pilferk]

How so?

I think he's referring to the fact that Big Mac has accepted a position with the Cards as their hitting instructor.

Given how long, and how hard, Mark fought NOT to "talk about the past"...it seems a bit "odd" that he'd choose now to come forward.  Rather than back in 2006-2009 (when, like now, the statute of limitations had expired on the crimes he'd committed had expired).

Look, I don't KNOW that the league put any pressure on him to come forward now.  Maybe he just figured, if he was going to be working in MLB, he should get it all out of the way, rather than face the constant questions and possibly be a distraction to the team.  But I can also see the point that the timing might be a little too coincidental for this to be Big Mac acting 100% on his own, you know?

[GeorgeSteele]

How so?

I think he's referring to the fact that Big Mac has accepted a position with the Cards as their hitting instructor.

Given how long, and how hard, Mark fought NOT to "talk about the past"...it seems a bit "odd" that he'd choose now to come forward.  Rather than back in 2006-2009 (when, like now, the statute of limitations had expired on the crimes he'd committed had expired).

Look, I don't KNOW that the league put any pressure on him to come forward now.  Maybe he just figured, if he was going to be working in MLB, he should get it all out of the way, rather than face the constant questions and possibly be a distraction to the team.  But I can also see the point that the timing might be a little too coincidental for this to be Big Mac acting 100% on his own, you know?

Exactly, the timing is rather suspect, plus the fact that in at least one of yesterday's interviews he apologized directly to Bud Selig.  It's not that I think he shouldn't have come clean (not that he completely did), I just think if he or any of the other players have to admit to everything, then so should the league and its owners, management, etc.

[Loaded NightraiN]

How so?

I think he's referring to the fact that Big Mac has accepted a position with the Cards as their hitting instructor.

Given how long, and how hard, Mark fought NOT to "talk about the past"...it seems a bit "odd" that he'd choose now to come forward.  Rather than back in 2006-2009 (when, like now, the statute of limitations had expired on the crimes he'd committed had expired).

Look, I don't KNOW that the league put any pressure on him to come forward now.  Maybe he just figured, if he was going to be working in MLB, he should get it all out of the way, rather than face the constant questions and possibly be a distraction to the team.  But I can also see the point that the timing might be a little too coincidental for this to be Big Mac acting 100% on his own, you know?

But didnt he say the reason he did this was because he didnt want it to become a distraction?

No news there

[Falcon]

A little break from the Big Mac/Roid "Fuhrer"..

A must watch for fans of teams with bitter rivals - IE Cards/Cubs, Yankees/RedSox, Dodgers/Giants.

Take a few minutes, read the subtitles - it's well worth it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsELQmqZwAw&feature=email

[Eazy E]

I agree, D.

"I only took them to heal injuries" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Look, everyone knows what the effects of steroids are on your body.  It's not like you can turn on the effects you want and turn off the ones you don't.  It's like saying I only take asprin for headaches and ignoring the fact it's a blood thinner, too.  Even if I'm TAKING the asprin for a headache, I have to be cognizant of what the other effects are because, like it or not, inconvenient or not, beneficial or not, they're still occurring.

He might very well have taken steroids with the INTENT to keep his body healthy.  But, in addition to that effect, it was going to put muscle mass on him and increase his strength.  Period.  End of story.  Whether he intended it to increase the distance which he could hit a small white ball or not is beside the point.  It obviously DID, and it should have been obvious to him it was going to.  Him rationalizing otherwise doesn't, IMHO, make it any more "right".

Any other conclusion is just absurd.

Also, just the fact that he's using them to "heal injuries" and stay healthy taints the 70 home runs.  The ability to hit a home run on it's own doesn't grant you the record... if he's able to play more games injury free because of steroids, that's more at-bats too.  Recovering from injury might be the reason he STARTED taking them, but it doesn't add any credibility to that season.

I don't buy his denial about Canseco injecting him either... it's easy to throw Jose under the bus by saying "he's just out to sell his book"... but he's been spot on about too many things now.

[tim_m]

I agree, D.

"I only took them to heal injuries" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Look, everyone knows what the effects of steroids are on your body.  It's not like you can turn on the effects you want and turn off the ones you don't.  It's like saying I only take asprin for headaches and ignoring the fact it's a blood thinner, too.  Even if I'm TAKING the asprin for a headache, I have to be cognizant of what the other effects are because, like it or not, inconvenient or not, beneficial or not, they're still occurring.

He might very well have taken steroids with the INTENT to keep his body healthy.  But, in addition to that effect, it was going to put muscle mass on him and increase his strength.  Period.  End of story.  Whether he intended it to increase the distance which he could hit a small white ball or not is beside the point.  It obviously DID, and it should have been obvious to him it was going to.  Him rationalizing otherwise doesn't, IMHO, make it any more "right".

Any other conclusion is just absurd.

Also, just the fact that he's using them to "heal injuries" and stay healthy taints the 70 home runs.  The ability to hit a home run on it's own doesn't grant you the record... if he's able to play more games injury free because of steroids, that's more at-bats too.  Recovering from injury might be the reason he STARTED taking them, but it doesn't add any credibility to that season.

I don't buy his denial about Canseco injecting him either... it's easy to throw Jose under the bus by saying "he's just out to sell his book"... but he's been spot on about too many things now.

I don't see the point in denying that i mean does it make what he did any less wrong? No, so why deny he injected him.

[pilferk]

But didnt he say the reason he did this was because he didnt want it to become a distraction?

No news there

The guy lied about juicing, refused to talk about it for however many years (5-ish), but you believe THAT statement?

Seriously, though...he's not going to come out and say "the league put pressure on me to admit my wrongdoing or they were going to make my employment difficult"...even if that's the truth.  He's going to put the best spin possible on it...you know, like when a CEO quits a company after being given the ultimatum by the board that he either quit or be fired?  He wants (and frankly, so does the league...better PR) this to look like it's his idea to come forward now...and the reasoning above would be, really, the only thing he could fall back to on why he's waited so long.

Again, it MAY be that it's exactly as he's said: To avoid being a distraction.  But there has to be at least some niggling suspicion (at LEAST) that the league got involved.  There's just too many coincidences not to suspect.

I also find it interesting that he chose to give the "exclusive" to the league owned network rather than ESPN (who, lets face it, is the more prominent sports network).

[Falcon]

Did anyone else see Canseco on MLB's Hot Stove last night?

Dude was all over the place, unable to stay on point. 

Contradicted his statement in his book of 'injecting Big Mac countless times" to "maybe one or two".

I realize Canseco has shed light on the whole era and will give credit where credit is due, I just don't think he should be the end all be all for all things PED in MLB with everything he says being taken as gospel...

[pilferk]

Contradicted his statement in his book of 'injecting Big Mac countless times" to "maybe one or two".

When talking about Canseco, I'm not sure the above IS a contradiction....for him "countless" may very well be "one or two". 

[Falcon]

Contradicted his statement in his book of 'injecting Big Mac countless times" to "maybe one or two".

When talking about Canseco, I'm not sure the above IS a contradiction....for him "countless" may very well be "one or two". 

For whatever reason, I'm thinking countless was "zero"...

The Hot Stove crew (Magrane, Williams, Verducci) wasn't buying it either..

[pilferk]

For whatever reason, I'm thinking countless was "zero"...

The Hot Stove crew (Magrane, Williams, Verducci) wasn't buying it either..

Truthfully, neither do I.  But since Canseco isn't the brightest bulb....not being able to count to one (or two) seems pretty feasible, too.

[D]

yeah but Jose even brought down Alex Rodriguez

I remember everyone calling him a lying motherfucker when he said that.


maybe he is wrong on a few of the small facts, like how many times but it doesn't change the fact he is a truth teller.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Canseco should go to the HoF for cleaning up the game.

[Falcon]

yeah but Jose even brought down Alex Rodriguez

I remember everyone calling him a lying motherfucker when he said that.

maybe he is wrong on a few of the small facts, like how many times but it doesn't change the fact he is a truth teller.

He's hardly an all encompassing "truth teller", more like an embellished selective memoried whistle blower with self serving motives and axes to grind.

Canseco should go to the HoF for cleaning up the game.

Do you actually think he wrote two books ratting out teammates and other players around MLB  to "clean up" the game?

Not saying some of the things that have occurred within baseball since have not been positive but c'mon, he did it to sell books.

[GeorgeSteele]

I agree that Canseco is a train wreck and maybe not quite a "truth teller" but the sad fact is that he has been more honest about his use of and the overall prevalence of steroids than any other single person in baseball, regardless of his motives.  Perhaps he would not have been as desperate for outside revenue sources like tell-all books had the league not blackballed him and basically deprived him of his livelihood. 

I firmly believe that had he not published "Juiced", steroids would not have been cleaned up to the extent they have been (btw, I still think there's rampant HGH use).  Was that his intent?  Absolutely not, in fact he openly stated the opposite -- he felt that steroids were good for the game.  In any case, he at least exposed the hypocrisy of the players and the league in general. 

[Slash_N_Roses]

this is from yahoo sports http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnNmZUKBUOb4BBCLF4YPohM5nYcB?slug=ap-cardinals-mcgwire&prov=ap&type=lgns

Dressed in jeans, a sweater and running shoes, the 46-year-old McGwire walked on stage to ?Welcome to the Jungle? by Guns N? Roses, the hard-rock song played before his at-bats with the Cardinals. The team?s new hitting coach was cheered by fans who secured seats as much as 3 1/2 hours earlier.

[Falcon]

Vid of Big Mac's return at the Winter Warm up, looks as though the forgiving process has begun in STL at least.

http://videos.stltoday.com/p/video?id=9392561

And the possible return of Jimmy Ballgame..

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/jeffgordon/story/08E987FAB06A3CB1862576AF00488E28?OpenDocument

[faldor]

Falcon, looks like Brad Penny's off season workouts are going quite splendidly.

http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/01/karina-smirnoff-is-having-fun/37081pcn_karinagold-4/

37081, TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS, PROVIDENCIALES - Friday January 22, 2010. **EXCLUSIVE** Karina Smirnoff and baseball player Brad Penny of the St Louis Cardinals enjoy the sun, sand and surf while staying at the ?Gansevoort? Resort in Turks and Caicos Islands. The two are seen snorkeling together and playing a game of catch with one ?


How does this guy get such hot chicks?  This girl, Eliza Dushku, Alyssa Milano?  Did he date Alyssa?  That's prbably a stupid question.  What MLB pitcher hasn't dated Miss Milano?  If only I worked a little harder with my pitching and was able to make it past high school.  Oh, what could have been.