2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[pilferk]

The last I'd heard was 5 years at 16 per which is fine, not sure if I'd go 8
at that price..

Knowing Boras, he's probably seeking a full "no trade" so the Cards better protect them selves with some sort of club option past 5 years..
 

Yeah, I was surprised about the term, too.  EIGHT years?  I almost wonder if it was a misprint!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4780391

http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/12/hollidays-asking-price-drops-cards-optimistic.html.php

In "reading around", it sounds like Boras wanted 5 years at 18 per for Holliday.  Maybe this is the way the Cards get around the big number...by extending the term of the deal?

It would make sense, I guess.  5 at 18 is 90 mill.  8 at 16 is 128 mill.  If you're Boras/Holliday..in 5 years, are you going to command a 3 year, 12.6 per deal?

[Falcon]

 Maybe this is the way the Cards get around the big number...by extending the term of the deal?

That makes the most sense for sure but for the Cards, 8 years anyone not named Albert is overextending IMO..

I think Boras just likes the sound of "100(+) Million" no matter how it shakes out..

[pilferk]

That makes the most sense for sure but for the Cards, 8 years anyone not named Albert is overextending IMO..

I think Boras just likes the sound of "100(+) Million" no matter how it shakes out..

I agree with you 100%.

I also wonder if this is the way the Cards prove to Albert they're ready to spend money to make the team more competitive AND keep some room under the cap to fit Albert in, next year.  There have been rumors that THAT is one of his concerns.  He wants to play on a team that's going to compete every year.  If that's part of the strategy to keep Pujols around, it starts to make a little bit more sense.

Still...it's a LOT of money to tie up.  The one positive is that 16 mill isn't a prohibitive amount to trade to one of the big guns (Yanks, Mets, Sox, Dodgers, etc) if you need to do it EARLY in the contract.   LATE in the contract (say, at the 5 year mark)...you're gonna have to eat some of that salary.

It's dicey....we'll see if it gets done.

[GeorgeSteele]

the phillies great run of the last few years has been a little more enjoyable knowing that they have played a role in the Mets demise. it's been satisfying to watch. 

Hardy fuck you har.  Nice try, but 100% of the credit goes to the Wilpons.

this signing tells me they haven't figured it out yet. they don't have unlimited funds and that's alot of money to pay someone that could end up being quite average.

No, it's a good signing, he's one of the best players available.  The Mets have always spent far less than they're capable of, no better evidence of that than spending only $30M or so more than your joke of a town.  Yes, it's possible he could end up being average but it's quite unlikely since he's been a significantly above-average player during his career.

their nucleus certainly is not as good as they thought it was 2-3 years ago. they should be focused on pitching and defense IMO.   

They suck pretty much across the board, so anytime you can add a player of Bay's caliber, you do it. 

my guess is that they will be lucky to be in the running for a playoff spot next september.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

[GeorgeSteele]

 Maybe this is the way the Cards get around the big number...by extending the term of the deal?

That makes the most sense for sure but for the Cards, 8 years anyone not named Albert is overextending IMO..

I think Boras just likes the sound of "100(+) Million" no matter how it shakes out..

Are agents paid their entire commission upon the signing of the contract or is it spread out over the term of the contract?

[pilferk]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=4781141

If the angels let him play the outfield on any sort of regular basis, they are batshit nuts.

[pilferk]

Are agents paid their entire commission upon the signing of the contract or is it spread out over the term of the contract?

I think their commission amount is based off the entire VALUE of the contract, but I think it's paid out in phases, over the term of the contract.  I'm pretty sure they also get a chunk of any bonuses and incentives built into the deal, and you can't really pay those out until (or if) they kick in. 

I'm sure they get SOMETHING at signing, though.  And the rest gets pro-rated.

[Falcon]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=4781141

If the angels let him play the outfield on any sort of regular basis, they are batshit nuts.

Oh....my...God..

That makes Damon playing left anywhere look like the things Gold Gloves are made of.

[sandman]

the phillies great run of the last few years has been a little more enjoyable knowing that they have played a role in the Mets demise. it's been satisfying to watch. 

Hardy fuck you har.  Nice try, but 100% of the credit goes to the Wilpons.

haha! love the bitterness of mets fans. what a mess!

their demise began in September 2007 with arguably the greatest collapse in MLB history. that choke-job was clearly the players fault; therefore, it's naive to place all the blame on the owners. and the phils clearly had a role in it as well since they had to win a bunch of games down the stretch. 

adding an overpaid OF to this team will do little to improve it. the core is weak - they should begin the rebuilding process.

[cotis]

Got the World Series blu-ray for Christmas and just got done watching it...really nicely done. Maybe I'm bias cause I'm a Yankee fan -- but it's really awesome.

[GeorgeSteele]

the phillies great run of the last few years has been a little more enjoyable knowing that they have played a role in the Mets demise. it's been satisfying to watch. 

Hardy fuck you har.  Nice try, but 100% of the credit goes to the Wilpons.

haha! love the bitterness of mets fans. what a mess!

Bitter?  I liked the Mets back when Dave Kingman's corpse was their best player, you think I'm bitter because of a busted season or however many choke jobs?  I just hope that I'm not as much of a douche as you are when they finally turn things around. 

[sandman]

the phillies great run of the last few years has been a little more enjoyable knowing that they have played a role in the Mets demise. it's been satisfying to watch. 

Hardy fuck you har.  Nice try, but 100% of the credit goes to the Wilpons.

haha! love the bitterness of mets fans. what a mess!

Bitter?  I liked the Mets back when Dave Kingman's corpse was their best player, you think I'm bitter because of a busted season or however many choke jobs?  I just hope that I'm not as much of a douche as you are when they finally turn things around. 

 

good stuff.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

the phillies great run of the last few years has been a little more enjoyable knowing that they have played a role in the Mets demise. it's been satisfying to watch. 

Hardy fuck you har.  Nice try, but 100% of the credit goes to the Wilpons.

haha! love the bitterness of mets fans. what a mess!

their demise began in September 2007 with arguably the greatest collapse in MLB history. that choke-job was clearly the players fault; therefore, it's naive to place all the blame on the owners. and the phils clearly had a role in it as well since they had to win a bunch of games down the stretch. 

adding an overpaid OF to this team will do little to improve it. the core is weak - they should begin the rebuilding process.

Stupid.

Since Wilpon bought the team, they've only gone to the playoffs a handful of times.  In 20 years, they have signed awful free agents, traded the farm away, adopted bad business models, pissed on Mets traditions, and built themselves an executive boardroom of a stadium.

If you don't know what you're talking about, just stay out of the conversation.

Phils Phanatic since 2008 by the sounds of it.  Classless just like the city you're from.

[Falcon]

From Foxsports' Tracy Ringoslby

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ringolsby-Holliday-contract-123009

The jist of it..

Holliday Sets His Price

Free agent outfielder Matt Holliday is intent on signing a contract that exceeds the $18 million average salary of a four-year offer he rejected from the Rockies during the 2008 season, according to major-league sources.

While there were earlier reports that St. Louis has declined to go beyond five years in its guarantee to Holliday, major-league sources indicated on Tuesday that the Cardinals had made a proposal that could reach $140 million over eight years. That is an annual average of $17.5 million, just shy of Holliday's target.

Holliday has indicated an interest if the term is reduced to seven years, the sources said, although agent Scott Boras remains focused on an eight-year, $160 million deal, similar to the one the Yankees gave Mark Teixeira a year ago.

[GeorgeSteele]

From Foxsports' Tacy Ringoslby

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Ringolsby-Holliday-contract-123009

The jist of it..

Holliday Sets His Price

Free agent outfielder Matt Holliday is intent on signing a contract that exceeds the $18 million average salary of a four-year offer he rejected from the Rockies during the 2008 season, according to major-league sources.

While there were earlier reports that St. Louis has declined to go beyond five years in its guarantee to Holliday, major-league sources indicated on Tuesday that the Cardinals had made a proposal that could reach $140 million over eight years. That is an annual average of $17.5 million, just shy of Holliday's target.

Holliday has indicated an interest if the term is reduced to seven years, the sources said, although agent Scott Boras remains focused on an eight-year, $160 million deal, similar to the one the Yankees gave Mark Teixeira a year ago.

Holliday's career numbers actually compare reasonably to Teixeira's but the problem for him is that it's a different market when the Yankees are not bidders.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/compare.asp

[Falcon]

Holliday's career numbers actually compare reasonably to Teixeira's but the problem for him is that it's a different market when the Yankees are not bidders.

No doubt about it.

If the Yanks (or Red Sox) want someone, they'll just outbid whomever and see what happens.

That said, they both seem to be a bit fed up with Boras type tactics and taking "signability' into consideration.

[pilferk]

There was a rumor going around late yesterday that BALTIMORE had made an 8 year offer, again...close to but not exactly 18 per.

We'll see if Holliday get's what he's after...it's not 2007 anymore.  Sometimes you gamble and lose...

[Falcon]

Cards/Holliday update from the St Louis Post Dispatch:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/AA478C796CC2977A8625769D0016A90E?OpenDocument

St. Louis Cardinals move closer to deal with Holliday

BY DERRICK GOOLD
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/31/2009

The wait might have been worth it for the Cardinals, as the club and free-agent outfielder Matt Holliday are working toward an agreement that multiple sources described as gaining momentum and potentially is the largest ever offered by the franchise, passing the $100 million extension signed by Albert Pujols in 2004.

The Cardinals have had a growing sense of optimism in recent weeks that they would be able to re-sign the left fielder and former batting champion, willing to let the market move around them while they focused on Holliday. Sources with knowledge of the negotiations said progress is "strong" and a resolution could come as early as next week.

Holliday's representatives and Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak confirmed ongoing talks.

[faldor]

Red Sox signed Adrian Beltre to a one year deal for 9 million, player option for 5 million for a second year which Beltre won't excersize unless he gets hurt or has a terrible year.

Here's the positive spin from the Boston side of things.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/01/lets_take_a_loo.html

Taking a closer look at Beltre
Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff January 4, 2010 08:30 PM

Some fans will look at Adrian Beltre's 2009 season and dismiss him. He hit .265 with eight home runs and 44 RBI. His on-base percentage of .304 was atrocious.

But Beltre spent the first half the the season playing with bone spurs that did not allow him to lift his left shoulder higher without a pain he described as akin to being stabbed with a knife. After undergoing surgery in June, he missed time later in the season when he took a bad hop in a place where you don't want to take a bad hop.

We pause here to wince.

Beltre also had the misfortune of playing his home games at Safeco Field. By any measure -- statistically or anecdotally -- Safeco's dimensions restrict the production of right-handed hitters.

Consider how Beltre fared from 2005-09 with the Mariners:

Home (353 games): 347-1,367 (.254), 116 extra-base hits, 174 RBI

Road (362 games): 404-1,456 (.277), 167 extra-base hits, 222 RBI

A 23-point difference in batting average and those power numbers suggest Beltre will be a far more productive player at the plate by the simple fact of playing 81 games at Fenway Park. For a pull-conscious right-handed hitter, Fenway is a much better fit.

Defensively, Beltre is not merely a good third baseman. He is one of the two or three best in the game. Outside of possibly Evan Longoria, I'm not sure there there is a better third baseman in the American League. Beltre is a guy with tremendous reactions, a strong arm and an amazing ability to come in on slow rollers and make a play.

He is a player who will actively prevent runs from being scored. With Beltre, Marco Scutaro, Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis, the Red Sox have four legitimate Gold Glove candidates in their infield backing up a strong rotation. That is a far more consistent and predictable way to wins games than loading up on offense.

At the Winter Meetings, Scott Boras was suggesting that Beltre merited a four-year deal worth $50 million. It's the job of an agent to try and inflate the value of his client. In the end, Boras settled on a deal that, at most, will cost the Sox $14 million over two years. Give Boras credit, he made the case in Indianapolis that Beltre was a good fit in Boston. The Sox waited, let the price fall and made a smart deal.


But Boras is as forward-thinking as the Red Sox. If Beltre stays healthy and mashes for a contender, he can go back into the market next winter at the age of 31. This deal could benefit him greatly in the long term.

The Red Sox, meanwhile, are committed to two years at the most. That gives them flexibility to work in prospects going forward and the $14 commitment does not preclude them being as active as they want next winter in a loaded free-agent market.

This is a win/win deal. The Sox can hit Beltre sixth behind David Ortiz and push down Mike Cameron and J.D. Drew a little bit more, giving them greater balance.

If you find advanced statistics compelling, read this well-timed post from Baseball Daily Digest about Beltre. He is projected to play to a 3.1 WAR next season. That is Wins Above Replacement, a metric that determines a player's value at the plate and in the field. Their take is that he brings tremendous value and that was before this deal was struck.

We can argue the merits of who they signed, but nobody can deny the Red Sox are making an effort and spending money. They went out and signed Beltre, Cameron and Lackey, traded for Jeremy Hermida and added some draft picks along the way. They also got younger and more athletic.

Many folks are e-mailing that Mike Lowell could still be a DH. That is possible. But it's far more likely they trade him and try and save $2 or $3 million.

Outside of a few bench/bullpen types, it appears the 2010 Sox are assembled. Pack up he truck. 

[pilferk]

It's a good pickup for them.  Cheap, with a very good upside.  The thing is:  They NEED Beltre to return to form, offensively.  That lineup was actually looking more aenemic than it was LAST YEAR.  They need some punch to that offense.  The loss of Bay really hurts them and Beltre could make up for some of that loss.

He's DEFINITELY an upgrade over Lowell, defensively.   

Rumors are starting to circulate that Damon has lowered his asking price and is speaking to the Yanks again.  I STILL don't know that a deal will get done.....but it sounds like maybe Johnny's being a little more realistic.

Now, watch..someone will come out of the cobwebs and sign him to a big deal.