2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

Wow, I just saw that about Crawford.  I am shocked!  Obviously they must've really liked him because they don't dole out contracts of that magnitude very often.  I figured they'd bend for Gonzalez, but apparently they feel just as strongly about Crawford.  Maybe they just got sick of him stealing 4 bases a game against them every time they faced him.  Another big move for the Sox, to an already strong lineup.

Now there are some concerns on the other hand. 

1) Is Crawford really worth 20+mil a year?  I don't see him as that much different or better than Ellsbury and he makes far less.  Of course, I could care less.  It's not my money.  Tickets are quite difficult to get at Fenway and if you do get them you have to pay hand over fist for them, so by all means, SPEND the money on improving the team.

2) The addition of Crawford makes an already left handed heavy lineup even more left handed heavy.  Their 3 OF's are lefties, Ortiz and Gonzalez.  From what I hear Salty is better from the left side.  Pedroia and Youk are the only dangerous right handed hitters they have.  And there are plenty of southpaws in the AL East, notably Price and Sabathia.  Now if the Yanks end up signing Lee that'd be yet another top notch lefty.

I guess I'll worry about that when the time comes though. 

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Crawford
Ortiz
Salty/Varitek
Drew
Scutaro

Or something to that effect, lots of options there.  Not too shabby.  They still need to rework the bullpen though, as that was a major problem area last season.  They've thrown a ridiculous amount of money around the last couple of days though.  Sox fans can't complain about the owners being "cheap" anymore.

[cotis]

Since us Yankee fans heard it for years from you pricks, here's a taste of your own medicine:

"Stop trying to buy championships."

[faldor]

Since us Yankee fans heard it for years from you pricks, here's a taste of your own medicine:

"Stop trying to buy championships."

Honestly, even though the Yankees spend more than every other team, Red Sox fans can't really complain.  The Sox have done their fair share of spending over the years.  I find it amusing that some Sox fans have been so harsh with questioning team management and how they don't go after big time players.  I mean over the years they have fallen short on A-Rod, Tex, etc.  But they've still thrown money around to field some pretty competitive teams.  I guess fans were getting upset that they'd often be outbid by the Yanks and weren't willing to go the extra mile, especially in terms of long term deals.

For whatever reason, they felt these 2 players were worth reversing that trend.  When they let Victor go a few weeks back, fans were in an uproar.  I didn't quite get that.  It was WAY too early to start freaking out.  If you just took a deep breath, and made sense of things, you'd realize they would do something to fill out a roster for next season.  Of course I didn't really expect the Gonzalez trade.  And when that happened I didn't expect them to go after Crawford.  What's next?  Sign Cliff Lee tomorrow?

As for the Yanks, normally I'd expect them to be a favorite for every top free agent.  But I didn't in respect to Crawford.  I figured he'd end up with the Angels.  And for some reason, I get the feeling that they aren't necessarily the favorites to land Lee.  I could easily see Cliff staying in Texas.  He just doesn't seem like a NY guy and I think Texas will pay him handsomely, at least somewhere around what the Yankees may offer.  If the Yankees somehow do lose out on Lee, what will they do?  From what I've heard, Greinke wants no part of a big market team with his anxiety issues.  You'd have to think they feel some pressure to do something big after the Red Sox have stolen the spotlight and headlines over the last couple of days.

[pilferk]

Wow, I just saw that about Crawford.  I am shocked!  Obviously they must've really liked him because they don't dole out contracts of that magnitude very often.  I figured they'd bend for Gonzalez, but apparently they feel just as strongly about Crawford.  Maybe they just got sick of him stealing 4 bases a game against them every time they faced him.  Another big move for the Sox, to an already strong lineup.

Now there are some concerns on the other hand. 

1) Is Crawford really worth 20+mil a year?  I don't see him as that much different or better than Ellsbury and he makes far less.  Of course, I could care less.  It's not my money.  Tickets are quite difficult to get at Fenway and if you do get them you have to pay hand over fist for them, so by all means, SPEND the money on improving the team.

2) The addition of Crawford makes an already left handed heavy lineup even more left handed heavy.  Their 3 OF's are lefties, Ortiz and Gonzalez.  From what I hear Salty is better from the left side.  Pedroia and Youk are the only dangerous right handed hitters they have.  And there are plenty of southpaws in the AL East, notably Price and Sabathia.  Now if the Yanks end up signing Lee that'd be yet another top notch lefty.

I guess I'll worry about that when the time comes though. 

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Crawford
Ortiz
Salty/Varitek
Drew
Scutaro

Or something to that effect, lots of options there.  Not too shabby.  They still need to rework the bullpen though, as that was a major problem area last season.  They've thrown a ridiculous amount of money around the last couple of days though.  Sox fans can't complain about the owners being "cheap" anymore.

Now THIS...this is a big pickup.  Because Crawford will outperform (most likely) ANY of the numbers put up by ANY of your 3 outfielders (though I suspect he's going to play right or center, given that's where his speed is going to make the most difference at Fenway.  And the Sox now have 2 legit base stealers, which will give most teams, and especially the Yanks, fits.

It's a big deal, and it's the first time in awhile we've seen the Sox "go for it" in the FA market with a long term, big money deal.

NOW the Sox got a whole lot better....and the Yanks almost NEED to sign Lee to keep pace.  In fact, they may need to try to make one more pickup, depending on what Andy decides to do.

[pilferk]

Yanks just offered a 7th year to Lee.

Unreal....

Wonder if the deal will get done before the end of today?  I doubt the Rangers would go that long....

[sandman]

nice pickup by the Sox. i think crawford is worth it. these two moves make the Sox far more competitive. with or without lee, the yanks are still the better team IMO. but not by very much.

Faldor - i don't watch the AL regularly and have only seen a small number of Red Sox games in recent years, but as soon as i heard the deal i figured they would go Ellsbury-Crawford 1-2. maybe flip flop with pedroia depending on the matchup. then AG and youk 4-5.

two very nice moves by the Sox. they have added 2 major players in their prime and will have them locked up long-term.

i think this guarantees the Yankees get Lee. and even at 7 years, i think that is a great move. he's one of the best pitchers in the game for another 2-3 years, maybe longer. And like GeorgeSteele said, Lee might be overpaid in the last 3 years, but my guess is he won?t be a major liabiltiy. He has a great work ethic and really takes care of himself.

[faldor]

nice pickup by the Sox. i think crawford is worth it. these two moves make the Sox far more competitive. with or without lee, the yanks are still the better team IMO. but not by very much.

Faldor - i don't watch the AL regularly and have only seen a small number of Red Sox games in recent years, but as soon as i heard the deal i figured they would go Ellsbury-Crawford 1-2. maybe flip flop with pedroia depending on the matchup. then AG and youk 4-5.

two very nice moves by the Sox. they have added 2 major players in their prime and will have them locked up long-term.

i think this guarantees the Yankees get Lee. and even at 7 years, i think that is a great move. he's one of the best pitchers in the game for another 2-3 years, maybe longer. And like GeorgeSteele said, Lee might be overpaid in the last 3 years, but my guess is he won’t be a major liabiltiy. He has a great work ethic and really takes care of himself.

The lineup will be interesting for the Sox.  Crawford really hasn't led off that much, he's ideal as a 2 hitter in my mind.  But that's where Pedroia has thrived the last few years.  Ellsbury isn't your typical leadoff hitter, as he doesn't take all that many pitches and walks.  He could be dropped to 9th I suppose.  The Sox like to go lefty-righty as much as they can as well.

The Yanks will certainly do everything in their power to sign Lee.  It's a question of if the Rangers will come close to matching them and if Lee wants to play in NY.  It would be a crushing blow to the Yanks if he stayed in Texas.  If however he does go to NY, the Yanks could also look to sign the top lefty reliever, Scott Downs.  They could certainly use an upgrade in that area, and once again that'd help neutralize the Sox lefties in the later innings.

[cotis]

Read this about a week ago, but the Yankees want draft picks next year and want to avoid signing more than one Type-A free agent (Lee). Downs is a Type-A as well I think...I think they may go the route of Feliciano/Fuentes.

But then again, it could have just been a bluff to try and draw down Downs price.

[tim_m]

Great pickup for the sox. I did not see this coming at all. Boston still hasn't done anything to address the rotation though. Will Lackey bounce back? Can Dice-K stay healthy for a whole season and be effective? How will Beckett be? Will he stay healthy. Will Papelbon rebound from his worst season? Are the sox trying to do what the yankees tried for years? Pound the shit out of everyone. It doesn't work come the playoffs. You need pitchers you know you can count on. If Pettitte comes back to the yankees and i think he will. They have at least 3 pitchers they can count on, 4 if they get Lee. Does Boston? I'm not trying to diminish the two great signings they sox made but all the runs they'll score won't mean shit if their pitchers can't keep the opponent from scoring.

[faldor]

Great pickup for the sox. I did not see this coming at all. Boston still hasn't done anything to address the rotation though. Will Lackey bounce back? Can Dice-K stay healthy for a whole season and be effective? How will Beckett be? Will he stay healthy. Will Papelbon rebound from his worst season? Are the sox trying to do what the yankees tried for years? Pound the shit out of everyone. It doesn't work come the playoffs. You need pitchers you know you can count on. If Pettitte comes back to the yankees and i think he will. They have at least 3 pitchers they can count on, 4 if they get Lee. Does Boston? I'm not trying to diminish the two great signings they sox made but all the runs they'll score won't mean shit if their pitchers can't keep the opponent from scoring.

I think you're either overestimating the Yanks pitching, or underestimating the Sox.  The Yanks have 2 starting pitchers under contract that you can count on.  Sabathia and Hughes.  The Sox have Lester and Buccholz.  IF the Yankees can sign Pettitte and/or Lee then things might change.  But I have much more faith in Beckett and/or Lackey rebounding than AJ Burnett.  He's pretty much proven how inconsistent he is, and should continue to be in NY.  He's about equal to Dice K, though I'd still give the Dice man the edge.  Rivera is the best reliever either team has, but he has a less than imposing set up crew in front of him.  Papelbon did have a bad year last year.  I'd expect him to rebound this season, as he's in a contract year.  Bard is the closer of the future and he's nearly as lethal as Rivera.  So in essence, neither team has an imposing pitching staff in my mind, though the Sox seem to have more potential IMHO.  Lots of questions that need to be answered and I wouldn't feel extremely confident with either scenario.  I think both teams are pretty close overall, but I'd have to give a slight edge to the Sox right now as the rosters are currently constructed.  There's plenty of time left though before opening day.

[Falcon]

Lee back to the Phils, early reports have it 5 years at 20 per.

Not sure if I like the years but the annual is right there with Doc, makes sense..

[tim_m]

Thinking about this i think the rangers and the yankees are better off without him. I mean lets examine his world series starts for a second. Game one 2009 he shuts down the yankees. Since then he has been mediocre at best. Game 5 2009 gives up 5 runs. The only reason he won that game was cause Burnett pitched. Game 1 2010 he gets absolutely torched by the giants. Game 5 2010 he gives up 4 runs and loses again. So to me he hasn't proved he can come up big in the biggest games. He hasn't proved he can win jack shit. He's been great in the divison series and the LCS but on the biggest stage he's been less then stellar. I'm sure some of you will disagree but the numbers he's had in the world series don't lie.

[faldor]

Thinking about this i think the rangers and the yankees are better off without him. I mean lets examine his world series starts for a second. Game one 2009 he shuts down the yankees. Since then he has been mediocre at best. Game 5 2009 gives up 5 runs. The only reason he won that game was cause Burnett pitched. Game 1 2010 he gets absolutely torched by the giants. Game 5 2010 he gives up 4 runs and loses again. So to me he hasn't proved he can come up big in the biggest games. He hasn't proved he can win jack shit. He's been great in the divison series and the LCS but on the biggest stage he's been less then stellar. I'm sure some of you will disagree but the numbers he's had in the world series don't lie.

That's quite the spin you're putting on there.  If you want to stick by that, fine.  But I for one am ecstatic that he didn't sign with the Yanks, and better yet is off to the NL.  He's a legit ace.  I questioned him up until he proved himself time and again with the Phillies AND Rangers.  Yes he had a couple bad games, but he had more then enough good outings to prove he's one of the best pitchers in the big leagues.

The Phillies hands down have the best 1-2 in the majors, just as the Yankees would've had if they would've signed him.  Halladay and Lee are going to make the Phils a tough out in the playoffs for sure.  And the Yankees have lost out on yet another free agent.  Don't kid yourself.  They based their whole off-season on signing Cliff Lee.  And from the reports I've heard, they offered a heck of a lot more than the Phils.  So it's not like they just decided he wasn't worth it.  They simply lost out again.  They have to be scrambling about what to do next.  I suppose they could try to trade for Greinke, but I remember hearing he wanted no part of any big market team with his anxiety issues and all.

[tim_m]

I don't question he is a legit ace. I just kinda question his ability to win when it matters the most. If he leads the Phils to a title this year and wins his starts i'll say it was just a fluke and few bad games. His last 3 world series starts have been bad and that's just the truth.

As for the Rangers and Yankees i'm curious to see what they'll try to do now. Both now need pitching help bad.

[pilferk]

Bummed about the Yanks not getting him...that's a big loss, and it's going to mean the Yanks rotation needs serious help.  As of right now, they're in some trouble.  We'll see what Cashman can scramble around and do.

But if he had to go somewhere else, I'm glad it's to the NL.

I'm already hearing there's some people in the players union who are unhappy that Lee left money and years on the table.

IF there is a brightside to all this...I thought (and still think) a 7year deal is ridiculous for a 32 year old pitcher.  This PROBABLY helps long term....but it's gonna sting for 2011.

[sandman]

i do believe in Santa Claus. i do i do!

wow! i was shocked when i heard the news. there was one article a couple of weeks ago that mentioned the phils as being a potential suitor, and i heard one mention of it on sports radio. but with those dollars everyone assumed it was too much.

i love the deal. it's far less money than he could have gotten, and more importantly, it's less years. a 4 or 5-year deal would have been great, but hopefully he can be good and adjust in the last years of his contract.

very nice...
1. Halladay (L)
2. Lee (R)
3. Hamels (L)
4. Oswalt (R)
5. Blanton (love that guy, but i'm guessing he's gone)/Kendrick/Worley/who cares...look at our top 4!!!

i hope they pitch well cause it could make for a fun summer watching one of these guys every night.

[pilferk]

i do believe in Santa Claus. i do i do!

wow! i was shocked when i heard the news. there was one article a couple of weeks ago that mentioned the phils as being a potential suitor, and i heard one mention of it on sports radio. but with those dollars everyone assumed it was too much.

i love the deal. it's far less money than he could have gotten, and more importantly, it's less years. a 4 or 5-year deal would have been great, but hopefully he can be good and adjust in the last years of his contract.

very nice...
1. Halladay (L)
2. Lee (R)
3. Hamels (L)
4. Oswalt (R)
5. Blanton (love that guy, but i'm guessing he's gone)/Kendrick/Worley/who cares...look at our top 4!!!

i hope they pitch well cause it could make for a fun summer watching one of these guys every night.

Halladay's the righty, Lee's the Lefty.

That's one HECK of a rotation......of course, it's also the rotation the Phillies SHOULD have had last year (well, I guess they might not have gone out to get Oswalt had Lee stayed).

[sandman]

i do believe in Santa Claus. i do i do!

wow! i was shocked when i heard the news. there was one article a couple of weeks ago that mentioned the phils as being a potential suitor, and i heard one mention of it on sports radio. but with those dollars everyone assumed it was too much.

i love the deal. it's far less money than he could have gotten, and more importantly, it's less years. a 4 or 5-year deal would have been great, but hopefully he can be good and adjust in the last years of his contract.

very nice...
1. Halladay (L)
2. Lee (R)
3. Hamels (L)
4. Oswalt (R)
5. Blanton (love that guy, but i'm guessing he's gone)/Kendrick/Worley/who cares...look at our top 4!!!

i hope they pitch well cause it could make for a fun summer watching one of these guys every night.

Halladay's the righty, Lee's the Lefty.

That's one HECK of a rotation......of course, it's also the rotation the Phillies SHOULD have had last year (well, I guess they might not have gone out to get Oswalt had Lee stayed).

stupid mistake on my part. so excited i can't think straight. i couldn't sleep after i heard the news.

i certainly wish they had kept both last season. but the phillies will only sign players with contracts they like. on their terms. they have a budget and are dependent on their farm system to stay among the best teams. i've heard amaro make the argument about having control of players and i give him the benefit of the doubt. it's certainly all worked out wel lin the end.

the yankees are probably the only team that doesn't have to operate that way. although i guess we have to assume that even they have some type of budget now, since they wouldn't up their offer to lee. they must have something up their sleeve though, cause the Sox are arguably the favorite right now (might be a toss-up).

[GeorgeSteele]

If it's any consolation for Yankee fans, the last free agent star pitcher they lost out on -- Greg Maddux -- went on to lose to the Yankees in a World Series clinching game.  You know, because the situations are totally comparable and all.

Seriously, the Phillies are scary now.  Best starting pitching staff since 90s Braves?  Even better?

Actually, I think the Yankees are now zeroing in on trading for Zach Greinke and then plan to sign this guy as his personal catcher:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfmVBmDKLZI

[faldor]

Man, I forgot the Phillies had Oswalt too.  Damn, that's quite the rotation.  Mix in their potent lineup.  That's quite a squad there.

I heard this morning that the Phillies and Red Sox have agreed to a deal that would send Joe Blanton to the Sox.  I haven't heard what the Sox would be giving up.  I don't understand the move from the Sox point of view.  They have 5 starters, and IMO they're all better than Blanton.  I guess he'd provide some depth, but I don't know if he's ever pitched out of the bullpen.  He'd be quite an expensive long reliever.  Maybe Dice K could be on the move?  Not necessarily to the Phillies, but maybe somewhere else.  We'll see, doesn't make any sense to me right now.