2010 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

Strasburg needs Tommy John surgery, ouch.

Wow!  Hadn't heard that.  That's rough.  On the bright side though, thanks to the marvels of modern science sometimes guys come back just as good, if not stronger off of TJ surgery.  Obviously though, not a good sign for such a young guy with such promise.  Mark Prior anyone?

[tim_m]

Strasburg needs Tommy John surgery, ouch.

Wow!  Hadn't heard that.  That's rough.  On the bright side though, thanks to the marvels of modern science sometimes guys come back just as good, if not stronger off of TJ surgery.  Obviously though, not a good sign for such a young guy with such promise.  Mark Prior anyone?

Yeah, its all over espn.com. The fact that this surgery is no longer a death sentence and the kid is so young he has a great chance still at a great career. Its just a matter of how long it takes him to come back from this. They don't know how bad the tear is yet. He has yet to see Dr. Andrews.

[pilferk]

Good news for the Yanks is they don't play the Jays again for a month

Yes they do.

They actually play them again at the end of this week (Sept 3 - 5).  I'm at the game on the 3rd.

[pilferk]

Sorry boys Yankies are going down!!!
I will be pissed if it turns out the Twins series is what fucked us out of 1st place again!!!!




GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
Joe

Well, Yanks walked out with 2 of 3...just not the way I thought they would.  Yesterday was a pretty exciting game to watch....

[faldor]

Sorry boys Yankies are going down!!!
I will be pissed if it turns out the Twins series is what fucked us out of 1st place again!!!!




GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!
Joe

Well, Yanks walked out with 2 of 3...just not the way I thought they would.  Yesterday was a pretty exciting game to watch....

Did Nova get his B12 shots before the game? 

[pilferk]

Did Nova get his B12 shots before the game? 

Yup, I even drove out to Chicago to inject him.

[faldor]

Did Nova get his B12 shots before the game? 

Yup, I even drove out to Chicago to inject him.

Speaking of such.  Big day for Clemens today.

[pilferk]

Speaking of such.  Big day for Clemens today.

Supposedly he was going to play golf and then hop a plain to the arraignment.

Not much will really happen today, I don't think.  He'll be in and out in a few hours, I'd guess (unless the judge does something unexpected).  The real "big deal" will be when the trial starts.  I guess we'll hear more on the dates for that today...though they'll probably get pushed back by motions and legal wranglings at least a few times.

[faldor]

Speaking of such.  Big day for Clemens today.

Supposedly he was going to play golf and then hop a plain to the arraignment.

Not much will really happen today, I don't think.  He'll be in and out in a few hours, I'd guess (unless the judge does something unexpected).  The real "big deal" will be when the trial starts.  I guess we'll hear more on the dates for that today...though they'll probably get pushed back by motions and legal wranglings at least a few times.

Roger isn't backing down one bit, I'll give him that.  Do you think he actually believes himself at this point?  He's tricked himself by making lies into reality?

[AxlsMainMan]

Looks like Manny is going to Chicago

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100829&content_id=14088988&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Falcon]

The Clemens thing is bound to get even more silly as the trial moves forward.

The whole thing smells like the Pete Rose denial fiasco we endured for years, I've been a Rocket fan but they've got him dead to rights.  MLB Radio was speculating on somewhere from 18-24 months jail time.

Manny to the ChiSox is bound to make for good theatre, hopefully the month he'll be with them doesn't give him enough time to poison the clubhouse as he always does..

Hi dama going on in STL now, Tony and Colby Rasmus seemingly are not going to be able to coexist.  Colby can't handle TLR's intensity and TLR can't deal with Colby's periodically lazy play and meddling father..

One of them will more than likely not be there next year..

[Jdog0830]

Ah shit looks like I eat my words again

Joe

[pilferk]

Roger isn't backing down one bit, I'll give him that.  Do you think he actually believes himself at this point?  He's tricked himself by making lies into reality?

I have no idea.

I don't find McNamee particularly credible. 

I don't find Roger particularly credible.

It'll be interesting to see what comes out at trial.  From what's been in public, Clemens looks guilty.  But McNamee is a complete scumbucket.  So anything (and most of the state's evidence is coming from him...other than Andy's testimony) coming from him is suspect, too.

Do I personally think Roger knowingly did it?  Yup.

Do I think it's possible that McNamee is screwing him, or told Roger he was taking "B12" (or something else legal)?  Sure.  Not likely, but possible...and Roger's enough of a hayseed to believe it (or to convince himself that it was true).

This is one of those cases where you've got two people, both with questionable credibility (and alterior motives), saying completely different things.  I couldn't say for 100% sure that either one is telling the truth on this.  Hopefully, by the end of trial, we'll have a much clearer picture.  And, I suspect, Roger will be wearing an completely different kind of striped uniform when it's over.  Oh, wait....they switched the home uniforms for that team...now they're solid orange!  And who knows: Maybe while he's in, he can lead the Texas Penal League to a championship.

[pilferk]

The Clemens thing is bound to get even more silly as the trial moves forward.

The whole thing smells like the Pete Rose denial fiasco we endured for years, I've been a Rocket fan but they've got him dead to rights.  MLB Radio was speculating on somewhere from 18-24 months jail time.

That's what I think too.  Might be as little as 15 months..and he'll serve about 8, providing he behaves.

My problem is with "dead to rights".  Is it a lie if you really believe you're telling the truth?  It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Manny to the ChiSox is bound to make for good theatre, hopefully the month he'll be with them doesn't give him enough time to poison the clubhouse as he always does..

Thank god the Yanks don't have to face the White Sox again, during the regular season.  Red Sox do...6 times, maybe?  As much of a distraction as Manny has become, he almost always finds "focus" and playse well vs the Yanks. 

I can't believe anyone wants this guy on their team, though.  It'll be interesting to see what happens next year.

Hi dama going on in STL now, Tony and Colby Rasmus seemingly are not going to be able to coexist.  Colby can't handle TLR's intensity and TLR can't deal with Colby's periodically lazy play and meddling father..

One of them will more than likely not be there next year..

I think TLR is done with the Cards after this year.  His contract is up.  The Cubs job is open, seemingly (although I guess Girardi, should he leave the Yanks, is their preferred candidate).  I don't see him staying put.  Especially not the way this year has gone, so far.  If they don't make the playoffs (and there is plenty of time for them to get into WC contention, at least), I'm almost positive he's gone.

And if he stays...I'm not sure Mozeliak (and the ownership) will let Rasmus out of their hands.  He's cheap (not eligible for arbitration til 2012 and FA 2015), the fans love him, and he's a solid, every day center fielder with good upside potential, who is decent with the stick, and who hits with some pop in his bat.  Those are not easy to find.

[faldor]

Roger isn't backing down one bit, I'll give him that.  Do you think he actually believes himself at this point?  He's tricked himself by making lies into reality?

I have no idea.

I don't find McNamee particularly credible. 

I don't find Roger particularly credible.

It'll be interesting to see what comes out at trial.  From what's been in public, Clemens looks guilty.  But McNamee is a complete scumbucket.  So anything (and most of the state's evidence is coming from him...other than Andy's testimony) coming from him is suspect, too.

Do I personally think Roger knowingly did it?  Yup.

Do I think it's possible that McNamee is screwing him, or told Roger he was taking "B12" (or something else legal)?  Sure.  Not likely, but possible...and Roger's enough of a hayseed to believe it (or to convince himself that it was true).

This is one of those cases where you've got two people, both with questionable credibility (and alterior motives), saying completely different things.  I couldn't say for 100% sure that either one is telling the truth on this.  Hopefully, by the end of trial, we'll have a much clearer picture.  And, I suspect, Roger will be wearing an completely different kind of striped uniform when it's over.  Oh, wait....they switched the home uniforms for that team...now they're solid orange!  And who knows: Maybe while he's in, he can lead the Texas Penal League to a championship.

Yeah, I've heard some people say he's actually got a real good chance at winning the case.  Even if he did though, he's already guilty in the court of opinion and I don't think that would change, ala OJ.

Other people say, there's no way they'd carry this thing out THIS far and not find him guilty.  So we'll see.  Agree on McNamee.  Pettitte is the damning testimony.  If he changes his story a bit to make Roger not look quite as bad, then maybe he's got a shot.  If he sticks to his guns though, that could be troublesome.

[D]

Maybe Roger thought he was getting Vitamin B shots and McNamee was hitting him with roids so Clemens would have HUGE results and keep employing McNamee?

no one has thought of that angle.

if i am a personal trainer and i want to get paid... if my athlete gets just ok results, he may work with someone else.. but if he goes through the ceiling with gains and improvements, he will pay me more and  turn me onto others.

it happened to my brother once actually. a guy he worked out with toldhim he took vitamin b12 shots and he gave my brother a  shot of Testosterone unknowingly.

[pilferk]

Maybe Roger thought he was getting Vitamin B shots and McNamee was hitting him with roids so Clemens would have HUGE results and keep employing McNamee?

no one has thought of that angle.

if i am a personal trainer and i want to get paid... if my athlete gets just ok results, he may work with someone else.. but if he goes through the ceiling with gains and improvements, he will pay me more and  turn me onto others.

it happened to my brother once actually. a guy he worked out with toldhim he took vitamin b12 shots and he gave my brother a  shot of Testosterone unknowingly.

Actually, that's the angle I was alluding to in my post, above.  And McNamee is "scummy" enough to do something like that, IMHO.  Especially in an age where MLB testing was basically non-existent.  And he kept the "evidence" so that, should Roger ever find out and want to turn the big B.M. in, he could threaten Roger with his "evidence" and say he was going to tell everyone that Roger knew what he was taking.  Again, not something I'd put past McNamee.

I've seen that theory "floated" in other places, too, though.  But the counter-point is that you'd have to be an IDIOT not to notice both the effects AND the side effects, and not be able to put 2 and 2 together and get 4.

Again, that goes back to the "did he know or did he not know/convince himself he didn't know". 

The counter-counter-point is that Roger very well may be an idiot....he's certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I'm still at the: He probably did it, but I want to see more proof because McNamee is one of the lowest pieces of trash you could dig up.  Of course, the fact Clemens would choose to associate with him, at all, speaks volumes about Clemens...who also isn't a shinning pinnacle of humanity.

[D]

If u are working out hard though and are already a super athlete, u may think u are getting just great natural results doing certain exercises/training methods u never used.

biggest myth about steroids are 2 things:

1. u turn into mountains of muscles *erroneous, u can but its all how u workout/eat etc

2. U have all these terrible side effects... most people  I've known and i have been around tons of steroid users, never had any side effects whatsoever. maybe a tiny amount of acne. but nothing major.

[Falcon]

My "dead to rights" comment is probably more from a personal viewpoint - I think Roger knew he was up to no good just like Pete Rose knew he was violating MLB's most sacred rule.

Hell, didn't Roger know and give the scumbag Mcnamee the OK to shoot up his wife?

Beyond that, Pettitte's testimony is absolutely killer..

As for TLR leaving STL, Chicago is a very unlikely destination.  Tony is well aware of his place in Cardinal history and would never taint his legacy by moving to the Northsiders.
That would be a "Cardinal sin" and deemed unforgiveable by the organization and fanbase.

Tony himself excommunicated Jimmy Edmonds for nearly 2 years when Jimmy Ballgame accepted a trade from the Padres to the Cubs after the Cards had gone out of their way  and made good on his trade request to a west coast team.  Edmonds only recently got back in TLR's good graces when Edmonds sought out LaRussa for advice on his return from retirement.

If Tony leaving is indeed the case, LA is a much more likely scenario - closer to his home in the Bay area with an esteemed history.  If Girardi leaves the Bombers (and he won't) TLR would be receptive to the Yanks as well.

The Rasmus situation seems to have worked itself out.. for now that is..

More on that here:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_9a8a6679-f88c-59d6-8653-ff027222d766.html

Beyond that, Raz does come cheap and has extremely high upside but he is not a popular player by any means with the Cards fanbase - viewed as JD Drew in nearly every way.

He's not a popular guy within the organization either, they are still not happy with him for pouting when he didn't make the team out of spring training in 2008 and refusing an assignment to the Arizona Fall League.  He's never been receptive to any hitting instruction outside of his father and has had major problems with his verteran teammates. 

High drama indeed..

[pilferk]

If u are working out hard though and are already a super athlete, u may think u are getting just great natural results doing certain exercises/training methods u never used.

biggest myth about steroids are 2 things:

1. u turn into mountains of muscles *erroneous, u can but its all how u workout/eat etc

2. U have all these terrible side effects... most people  I've known and i have been around tons of steroid users, never had any side effects whatsoever. maybe a tiny amount of acne. but nothing major.

1) No, but you saw effects.  His velocity increased (after decreasing). His control got better, again.  He was recovering from injury (and sustaining fewer injuries) faster than before.   There were notable effects, for sure.

2.  Except...we KNOW Roger saw side effects...because we saw a lot of them, too.  That's one of the reasons he was "suspected" before the Mitchell report even came out.

So, if you're at all observant, AND you know your trainer has been injecting you with "something"...you'd have to be an idiot not to suspect what was going on.  

And, again....it could be that Roger is an idiot.