[TORRENT/ FLAC/ MP3] Destroyer - Tokyo, 12/19/2009 (links on first post)

[jarmo]

And you're banned for being a fucking troll. 

We got a tour coming up in less than a week, got better things to do than to deal with somebody who has issues with what I say.

That goes for all those who only sign up here to point out what a moron, geek, loser, nazi etc. I am.

I am aware, fuck off, move on. Have a nice day.



By the way, I don't argue if I'm wrong. Makes no sense to me.




/jarmo

[suntorytime]

The thing is, at the end of Inglewood Axl says the show's duration was "3 hours 36 minutes and 19 seconds". I guess the tour manager or someone else in the crew had a watch and was checking the time. As for Tokyo, I guessed they checked it too and it was 3 hours and 37 minutes.

Yeah during the show axl kept checking his watch.

some fans saw the notice at the entrances of tokyo Dome like this that say " please know today's show will be finishing by 9 30". http://echizenya.biz/yamabuki/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_3533.jpg
(the other notice says the show will be shoot, filmed and recorded. We consider you have agreed pics films and recordings of you taken during the gig be used without permission. )

Tokyo dome has lots of regulations. I hear they didn't allow full use of the pyros GNR prepared either. Many (including rock writers) thought poor axl must have been told to finish in good time after Osaka, so that he had to watch the clock. And the main set did ended promptly but that wasn't the real reason he was watching time, it seems.

The title of the other boot, I don't care about time is rather funny now.
 

GNR played over 3hours just a show before this. No one thought Tokyo would see such a long gig, lets alone the loooongest one. 2 3+ hours Long shows in a row- 7 hours in total, the length of 3 usual shows. thats also a new record.

[Limulus]

oh, the tokyo'09 show was just watch tracking then? 

i also fucking loved that they did such a long marathon, next to the other long shows right before! it was totally unexpected, a shot in the knee right out of the blue.....and a very good shot! that and the energy and aggression from Axl, his "good mood" and long talking and the technical skills of the band performing still is stunning to me, exspecially after ~2,5 years live abstinence. speculation now, but could it be the power of Axl resulted from his "worst fucking year" maybe? a bad life period can turn into good things after all, maybe into performing in this case. the amazing sound quality (how the hell did they get those guitars that nice??) of the unofficial live recording, and a fast release, probably helped aswell.
damn, that was too much positive talking from me  but hey, that was only subjective but pretty much honest, Jarmo!

[zombux]

to me, the band performance was A+, just Axl's voice seemed pretty weak to me, just like in 2001/2. I think he sang much more stronger in 2006/7 than now. it can be the recording though

anyway, some moments during Nightrain or some other songs were just killers

[Gaymo, the Hobbit]

I dont think he sang better back then. But most of the CD songs are pretty hard to sing. And he didnt perform them in 2006.

[jarmo]

damn, that was too much positive talking from me  but hey, that was only subjective but pretty much honest, Jarmo!

See, it's not that difficult.

You'll get used to it. 



/jarmo

[estebanf]

I dont really have the will to do a proper comparison of times. I just happened to have both shows in FLAC format in my PC, selected both folders, right clicked, and asked dbpoweramp plugin to give me the times. And that resulted in ''Destroyer'' being longer than Inglewood. almost a minute longer.

Bumblefoot and Axl seemed pretty sure and confident when they talked about the times. They gave precise times, and Axl was really worried about breaking the record at the Dome. But these things, somehow, dont seem to be valid for some people.

And there is a very important item we are not considerating in this discussion: the break between songs at the dome was incredibly short. It was the same at Osaka and Seoul. But the ''silence'' breaks between the 08/03/91 were considerably longer all over the show.

And at Tokyo (you may say this is very subjective, but hey, we know each other and we know pretty good what the mass of the real GNR fans think), there were almost no fillers at all. Plenty of fillers / forgettable songs at the californian show.

Instrumentally, the 2 lineups in question are in 2 very different leagues. This lineup makes the 1991 lineup (the worst sounding instrumental base GNR has ever had) look like newbies.

Remember these words: first canadian show, and we'll have the unquestionable record.

[Will]

Instrumentally, the 2 lineups in question are in 2 very different leagues. This lineup makes the 1991 lineup (the worst sounding instrumental base GNR has ever had) look like newbies.

We already had the FLAC/ MP3 debate, the Inglewood/ Tokyo debate, let's not have the old/ new line-up debate.

Both line-ups have their defaults and qualities, but this thread is about a bootleg, not about the skills of members of the band 19 years ago.

[estebanf]

Instrumentally, the 2 lineups in question are in 2 very different leagues. This lineup makes the 1991 lineup (the worst sounding instrumental base GNR has ever had) look like newbies.

We already had the FLAC/ MP3 debate, the Inglewood/ Tokyo debate, let's not have the old/ new line-up debate.

Both line-ups have their defaults and qualities, but this thread is about a bootleg, not about the skills of members of the band 19 years ago.

acknowledged.

regarding bootlegs, considering the lenght, the sound quality, the setlist, and the lineup, i trully think ''I Dont Care About Time'' is the best audience GNR bootleg EVER, and a top 5 among ''all categories'' (including soundboards). I and think I have some boots...

[Limulus]

I dont really have the will to do a proper comparison of times

see, estebanf, this is absolutely not personal so please dont take it like that, but ^^that says it all!
and all the other points from you are not really valid:
- "they said so" (pointed it out before)
- break and silence (= didnt help playing more GN'R songs!)
- filler songs (subjective! who decides that? its just a matter of taste from one fan to another! are civil war and estranged filler songs to you aswell but my generation isnt? even if so...doesnt count as argument. i've only given examples!)
- instrumentally skills (what does this help in playing time? nothing.....but that was the point we've talked about, the playing time! if we'd talking about guitar notes being played in those 2 shows.....Tokyo surely is like 4 times or more ahead! again, that wasnt the point!)

looking forward to the new tour leg.
bring on 4h shows, Canada!! 

[estebanf]

fair enough.

can you give me a good explanation on why i CAN NOT trust in the times dbpoweramp says? i ask this not with the intention of ''fighting'', im just being curious. I have tracked LOTS of audio shows. the original single wav file says one duration, and after the tracking and the right-click-checking with dbpoweramp, i get the same duration.

you're worried, Limulus, admit it. you know GNR will break that record in the next canadian tour. I do not take this as personal, but trust me Axl will 

[Limulus]

nah, absolutley not worried. its just some weird that in Tokyo'09 they were allready talking within the show about the record to break....but in the end they didnt. i mean....when the intention is there really wanting to do the longest show (comparing to the only long marathon they did before)...why not doing safe just playing 1-2 more songs? nobody could ever have doubted it then. but they decided, most accidently i think though, to do a close run only...turning out not being the longest one. and thats where this discussion basically started.

and for me i would LOVE if they play more marathons like that. in general i always rate longer shows = more entertaining, at least for the fans being there....i mean, you're there to have a good time, right? if they play longer than you've have a longer period of good time (given that they dont play sloppy by purpose or other shit happening taking away the pleasure). actually i "think" Canada wont have such long shows as the tour schedule is a lot more stressy for all band members, exspecially for Axl's voice for obvious reasons. i also disagree on the 1st candian show being a very long one...speculation of mine right now but its just not a good tactic to "open" with a marathon - information spreads fast and fans might expect such marathons all the time for the following shows but wont get it, turning into disappointment. also they closed not opened with a marathon in 91 and 09 aswell. i also would love to be proven wrong in that. but honestly i "hope" that south america gets the longest one ever because for mainly 2 reasons: fans over there are nuts and deserve it IMO! 2nd reason is pure egoistic: cant make it over there myself but the band past has shown us that they always have been cool and nice with tv broadcasts from SA. being a fan of live music i'd just love to see them there in front of thousands of totally crazy fans....thats something you hardly find in USA, Asia and not even in Europe here (off course sometime we come close  ).

as for your dbpoweramp question:
i think that has been misunderstood by you. the time being given from the program should be totally fine, thats not the issue. the issue was that the files you've used dont reflect the actual real lenght of the shows. the tokyo'09 show is shorter than what the company released on the CDRs. i do have copies of the inglewood91/maxxximum CDRs somewhere but they arent the ones to judge from as they are uknown sources/transfers from higher generation tapes and bad editing! you gotta go as close to the original source as a fan can do....and for years that has been the gen1 from JM78 (its listed there as 219:22min by the way.....that time would come out of your dbpoweramp proggie aswell....but again it doesnt reflect the real show lenght which is some shorter (too much preshow/postshow and silence parts if i remember right)! the DIME taper master transfer version released in october'09 (+ ~1min outro Axl talking not on there) is the version to judge from. i can give you the files of my "method" for checking in ANY proggie, the results given some posts above by me will stay the same.

[Nikki_Sixx]

And at Tokyo (you may say this is very subjective, but hey, we know each other and we know pretty good what the mass of the real GNR fans think), there were almost no fillers at all. Plenty of fillers / forgettable songs at the californian show.

Instrumentally, the 2 lineups in question are in 2 very different leagues. This lineup makes the 1991 lineup (the worst sounding instrumental base GNR has ever had) look like newbies.

You make this sound like hard facts, when in truth this is just YOUR opinion.  This is a GNR fan forum, and I'd presume most of us found our way here BECAUSE OF the 1991 'newbie lineup' with their 'filler/forgettable songs'.

Why does it have to be 'haters OR believers'.  Why can't one person just enjoy the original/UYI lineups, AND at the same time enjoy Axl's new band ?  Why is it apparently forbidden to say ANYTHING negative about the current lineup  ?  They have their faults, just like the original/UYI lineups had their faults. 

Of course Axl's voice was extremely weak during several parts of the 4 recent shows.  Why is that so hard to admit ?  1991 was almost 20 years ago !  He's 20 years older. He's never gonna sound that good again. He's hardly had any practice either.  He had off days in the past as well.  He forgot lyrics for new (and old) songs in the past as well.  Who doesn't ?  Still, I'm happy to see him touring, I'd rather have this than nothing.  I may not always agree with everything, and I might have preferred it if they had worked out their differences, but they didn't, and they moved on, so should we !

And the whole thing about 'more technically skilled players', while true in some cases, is totally irrelevant (except for the new songs).  Would you prefer one Beatle and 3 virtuosos over 4 Beatles and their limitations ?  Those guys you keep bashing fucking wrote all those songs.  Think about it...

[estebanf]

You make this sound like hard facts, when in truth this is just YOUR opinion.  This is a GNR fan forum, and I'd presume most of us found our way here BECAUSE OF the 1991 'newbie lineup' with their 'filler/forgettable songs'.

you're right, that was just my opinion.

But we still can make a thread asking fans all over the world if they would choose TWAT / Prostitute / Better or You're Crazy / Dust N' Bones / You Aint The First.

Why does it have to be 'haters OR believers'.  

I dont think it has to be that way.

Why can't one person just enjoy the original/UYI lineups, AND at the same time enjoy Axl's new band ? 

Because there isnt a new band, maybe? ''haters'' (the word u used) love to call this band ''Axl's new band'' or NewGNR, an elegant way of denying this band its own identity.

This band is Guns N' Roses. No matter how much you can whine. You would love to see Axl using another name for the band he created and he kept alive all these years, but you arent that lucky.

Why is it apparently forbidden to say ANYTHING negative about the current lineup  ?  They have their faults, just like the original/UYI lineups had their faults. 

Instrumentallywise, this band is flawless. currently, It all depends on how tight Axl's voice is at one show or the other.

but hey! if you think this band deserves some negative comments, just express yourself! Nobody here is gonna be scared by your words.

Of course Axl's voice was extremely weak during several parts of the 4 recent shows. 

I do not agree with this at all.

And the whole thing about 'more technically skilled players', while true in some cases, is totally irrelevant (except for the new songs).  Would you prefer one Beatle and 3 virtuosos over 4 Beatles and their limitations ?  Those guys you keep bashing fucking wrote all those songs.  Think about it...

You want to make this look as if Adler / Duff  / Slash were Harrison, Lennon and McCartney...

[MCFab28]

Of course Axl's voice was extremely weak during several parts of the 4 recent shows.  Why is that so hard to admit ?  1991 was almost 20 years ago !  He's 20 years older. He's never gonna sound that good again.

without sounding too offensive in this thread but have you ever recognized just how much harder the chinese democracy songs are to sing in comparison to the old songs? on the old songs at this shows axl sounds as good as, in parts even better than in his best time during the 80s and 90s. off course "this i love" is harder to sing than "my michelle" for example. i don't think that anybody really doubts this. and we could to this comparison with nearly every new/old song.

but i totally agree with you when it comes to enjoying the old and the new band...

[Ulises]

And now the discussion is about if Tokyo is longer than Inglewood or not. Unbelievable.

Don't you "haters" get tired?

[Limulus]

you dont need to "hate" anything when comparing show lengths. you just brought up the hate 
and it all looks like tokyo 09 = 2nd longest show for now, re-read the topic please.

[Calcy]

Is it ok, in the context of the recent posts, just to say thanks for the upload? 

Really hoping for a Euro tour to be announced soon, we need GN'R!

[suntorytime]

you dont need to "hate" anything when comparing show lengths. you just brought up the hate 
and it all looks like tokyo 09 = 2nd longest show for now, re-read the topic please.

Even some jp media claimed so. I tend to go with what the band says.

The band must have their tape of the show while Bootlegs can be edited by the makers I think.
or I don't get why no one had tried to correct the inglewood record for 17 years till the tokyo happened.

August 3rd, 1991 - The band plays at the Great Western Forum in Inglewood, CA. This show was the longest one on the whole Use Your Illusion world tour. According to Duff it was three hours, 36 minutes and 19 seconds long.

[Judas Fuckin Priest]

And at Tokyo (you may say this is very subjective, but hey, we know each other and we know pretty good what the mass of the real GNR fans think), there were almost no fillers at all. Plenty of fillers / forgettable songs at the californian show.

What a nonsense are you saying kid. Those "fillers" and "forgettable" songs became GNR in the best rock band at that time as well as caused that you be a GNR fan nowadays. I'm sure you're not a fan becasuse of Oh My God or Scheckler's Revenge, if so, you'd be one in a million.

Instrumentally, the 2 lineups in question are in 2 very different leagues. This lineup makes the 1991 lineup (the worst sounding instrumental base GNR has ever had) look like newbies.

Actually they were, but besides they were incredibly talented. I don't give a fuck if old Guns
used to make mistakes when they play live, it's band of Hard Rock after all, not a
classic music convention. They used to deliver everything in every gig, in a very 
authentic way, that became in the most genuine and loved era of Guns n' Roses.