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Author Topic: Official Guns N Roses and Axl Twitter & Facebook updates  (Read 1568196 times)
PermissionToLand
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« Reply #5960 on: July 13, 2020, 04:00:41 PM »



Man you're so boring, really... Why you always quote single lines or words trying to manipulate the meaning of what I'm saying? If You just want to read what you want, man, keep going I won't play your game.

Your dodging and avoiding is boring.

Line by line quoting your words and directly responding to you is somehow "manipulation"?  rofl Okay, call me out then. Show how I've manipulated your words. Don't just claim something as if it were self-evident and then run away. Back up your ridiculous fucking claims for once in your life. PROVE IT.

Over here in reality, there is no more honest and direct way to rebut something than going through line by line and responding to every argument being made. Imagine being such a bloviating blusterer that you think going on a tangential rant that does not directly address anything the other person has said, like your last response, is a superior method of debate than... actually rebutting arguments as directly and clearly as possible.

Or, alternatively you can concede like a man, one with even the tiniest shred of dignity, instead of once again falling back on these pathetic hand-waving dismissals.
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« Reply #5961 on: July 13, 2020, 05:25:22 PM »

Quote from: carmiedisco12
Let me be clear though. Do I think there is a massive issue with Police training and culture? Yes.
Let's start here; the very term "virtue signaling" (ironically) signals to me that you do not engage BLM in good faith because this term is an ideologically loaded buzzword which is weaponized to slander all who pursue justice as being disingenuous and only seeking self-aggrandizement, so they can be easily dismissed. Do disingenuous people exist? Of course. But using this kind of ideologically loaded language, to quote you, "is predominantly an exercise in either virtue signalling or good intentions from fairly ignorant people".

For example, I could very easily just dismiss your entire lengthy disclaimer as "virtue signaling". Do you see how antithetical to discourse that is? It's just shoving people into boxes you've already decided you don't need to engage with or listen to. It's far too often used to discredit any expression of genuine empathy.

Quote
But to solve difficult problems we must be able to have uncomfortable, open discussions on topics like crime without the fear of being called a name ending with íst'. To avoid that would be intellectually cowardly and not everyone that brooches taboo topics has a malicious intent.

That sounds a lot like what I just said about your use of the term virtue signaling...

Did I call you racist? No.

But when you say "discussions on topics like crime without the fear of being called a name ending with íst'"... why is that so? If someone makes an objectively racist argument, they are not to be called out on their racism? Again, we come back to this tendency to censor speech. Nobody can call anybody racist in a discussion of racial protests no matter what they say? Nobody can stand up for any values without being shoved into the "virtue signaler" box?

Frankly, I think the obsessive focus on the people calling out racism instead of the people engaging in racism is the real problem here. Again, we come back to the MLK quote on negative peace vs positive peace. Negative peace would be the absence of friction due to accusations of racism, which allows racism to go unchecked. Positive peace would be engaging in the divisive, combative reality that is fighting against racism. This kind of pearl clutching over accusations of racism is precisely the kind of disingenuous tone policing I was talking about. Nobody ever died from being called a racist. However, many people have died as a result of racism.

Quote
Some of us just want to work out where the problems lay before looking at the causes and solutions. Not everything is about blame.

BLM is not claiming to be a panacea for black Americans. Asking why they aren't protesting other injustices faced by black Americans is disingenuous because that is not what this group was created to do. BLM is a direct response to police brutality. Asking why they aren't talking about black on black crime is as absurd as asking why they aren't talking about black home loan application rejections. They are not purporting to call out every problem faced by black America.

Who is blaming who? Have I blamed somebody?

Have you not agreed already that police violence is a problem? The problem has been identified. By BLM. Your injection of an entirely different issue does not address the issue at hand whatsoever. Black on black crime does not cause police violence. So what was your purpose to even bring that up? I genuinely want to know.

Quote
BLM is simplistic tokenism where deeper discussions are required.

This is not an argument, this is a characterization. Do you understand that? You keep using characterizations as if they are evidence or arguments. Watch: "The tea party is a bunch of jobless losers". Is that an argument built on evidence or a meaningless characterization that represents nothing but my opinion?

Quote
My critique of the BLM protests is that it seems to me the noble concept of equality has been co-opted and that the movement is as much about virtue signaling  fueled by a mildly radicalized left wing ideology (Authority is bad, white people are bad) than the  stated intent of  valuing everyone equally

So the closest you've come to making an argument is distilled succinctly to this: "BLM are disingenuous because they fly the banner of equality but oppose authority and white people." Correct?

Now, to actually back that claim up, you would need some form of evidence that they oppose authority (broadly, because you did not specify what authority, unless you would now like to) and white people.

I think the very fact of white people being welcomed as a part of the protests immediately disproves that second claim as absurd and incorrect. As far as opposing authority; in what way? Their argument is not that nobody should have the authority to enforce the law, but that those who do should be held to a higher standard of conduct. Even the "abolish the police" contingent of them do not want anarchy; they want the police replaced by social workers who will be given the authority to enforce laws.

But that wasn't even the crux of your argument, which was that they are "hypocritical". Tell me, how would promoting equality conflict with opposing authority? By its very definition, authority means having certain powers OVER other people. Authority creates a hierarchy. Equality demands hierarchies be abolished for being unfair. Did you really not even think through that argument at all? Because it falls flat on it's own face if you put even a modicum of critical thought into it.

Quote
In a country where 92 people are shot and 27 killed in Chicago on one weekend, in a world where black people are openly sold in slavery in Libya, where Muslim minorities are placed in concentration camps by the Chinese Govt, where in parts of the middle east the treatment of women and homosexuals is abhorrent etc etc etc etc. Are the worldwide protests in the middle of a pandemic truly a proportionate response to a horrific and disgusting murder of George Floyd and the publics perception of Police bias against black people?  I would argue no.

What about this? What about that? What about this?

I've already addressed how your whataboutism fallacies are irrelevant to the discussion. Does slavery in Libya cause police shootings in America? No. Does BLM claim to be about solving problems across the entire globe? No. Again, BLM is a movement created after Ferguson to respond SPECIFICALLY TO POLICE VIOLENCE.

And if you think it's fair to play that little whataboutism game, then who are to you criticize BLM who are in the streets for police reform when YOU are not in the streets protesting slavery in Libya? Nor are you joining them to protest police violence. You are not in the streets for anything. So who do you think you are to demand they must address every single conceivable injustice affecting their community before you will allow them to talk about any one specific issue, when you yourself are not meeting that standard? This claim of hypocrisy is beginning to look a lot like projection.

Quote
Not only because if you truly care about black lives then you also focus on where the most suffering is (as above)

Again, if you truly care about black lives why are you not protesting any of these issues you've brought up? Your very argument accusing them of hypocrisy reveals YOUR hypocrisy!

In reality, the reasons why people protest are not so cut and dry as a statistical analysis of where the most lives are being lost. Protests tend to form in response to local events because they hit the closest to home, literally. Someone suffering across the globe is not as tangible as your best friend being killed. Not to mention, Libya's government (what little there is of one) is not beholden to Americans citizens. Protests in America would do nothing, they are a sovereign nation. Don't be obtuse. There's a reason BLM formed in Ferguson and the Floyd protests started in Minneapolis. Protests are an expression of anger and anguish and other emotions. So it stands to reason that they are more likely to be inspired by tangible personal realities than statistical analysis. And of course, it's easy to have the privilege of stepping back and looking at it in a cold mathematical sense when you are not the one having your loved ones extrajudicially murdered by state sanctioned forces. If your son or daughter or wife is murdered, you tell me how you'd feel if I said "You're a hypocrite! There are way more people being killed in Siberia!" You would probably sock me in the fucking mouth for that comment. For all your talk of empathy, I see very little of it in action here.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 05:42:31 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged

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« Reply #5962 on: July 13, 2020, 05:25:42 PM »

Ran out of characters! Continued...

Quote
and are also open to the possibility that the stats don't bare out police violence being disproportionality racist.

...

But an open analysis of the stats does seem to indicate Police are not applying force in a racist manner despite the publics perception.

Are you open to the possibility that they do? Once again, you make an assertion without any evidence. Do you not know that the DOJ investigated Baltimore PD and found damning evidence of racial bias?

https://www.justice.gov/crt/file/883296/download

The same findings came of another DOJ investigation of Chicago PD:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-findings-investigation-chicago-police-department

And - what do you know? - Ferguson had the same findings:

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

Seeing a pattern yet? Every freaking time they investigate a police department, they find racially discriminatory behavior.

Quote
policing one of the most heavily armed civilian populations on the planet(Controversial I know but clearly plausible based on the stats)

But more white people own guns than black people. And there are generally stricter gun laws in urban areas where minorities tend to live. If anything, that would only further the argument that there is bias, and it's underrepresented in the data.

Quote
I do not say I am correct but based on various studies, statistics and well reasoned arguments from credible intellectuals (Sam Harris for one) then it does appear Police violence is not targeted at black people because of race and therefore a lot of the protestors are actually arguing the wrong point due to a perception rather than knowledge.

Now we come to the real problem. You think a talking head ideologue like Sam Harris is a "credible intellectual". Sam Harris is known for cherry-picking his data and ignoring the broader scope of the data.

Coincidentally, I found a thorough discrediting of that very Sam Harris video you linked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A1cmqbI31M

And another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPqRDXL2kjE

Ironically, YOU are in fact the one arguing the wrong point due to a perception rather than knowledge. Even worse, you are arrogantly insisting you know better than people you've never even met.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 07:06:42 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged

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« Reply #5963 on: July 13, 2020, 05:56:10 PM »

I hope there's something new on GN'R's social media soon....  hihi



/jarmo
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« Reply #5964 on: July 13, 2020, 07:41:22 PM »

New album update would be great beer
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« Reply #5965 on: July 13, 2020, 08:07:08 PM »

I hope there's something new on GN'R's social media soon....  hihi



/jarmo


Hahahaha.  Well said.
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« Reply #5966 on: July 13, 2020, 09:07:30 PM »

I hope there's something new on GN'R's social media soon....  hihi



/jarmo


Can't come fast enough! Crossing my fingers it's music related somehow...
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« Reply #5967 on: July 14, 2020, 09:22:30 AM »

I'm thinking it'll be something about the tour, a throwback or maybe a comment from Axl....




/jarmo
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« Reply #5968 on: November 03, 2020, 05:52:13 AM »

Axl Rose
@axlrose

VOTE
Whatever It Takes
VOTE
Take A Side
Make A Stand
VOTE
With Courage
In The Face Of Fear
And Intimidation
VOTE
Through All The Noise
Lies
And Distractions
VOTE
For The Country
For A Better World
For DEMOCRACY






/jarmo
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« Reply #5969 on: November 03, 2020, 08:56:01 AM »

2/3

VOTE
For The Future
Of Our Country
Our Planet
Your Planet
This Planet
The Only Planet We Have
VOTE
For Those Who Fought,
Suffered And Died
To Create And Protect
Your Right To Vote

3/3

VOTE
For Loved Ones
For You
And For US
Together As One
And If It Helps...
Vote Knowing There Are Those
Hoping, Praying N’ Counting On
You Won’t
And Would Do Virtually ANYTHING
They Thought They Could Get Away With
To Stop You
VOTE

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« Reply #5970 on: November 03, 2020, 10:36:59 AM »

Oops. Thanks for posting the complete thing.  ok




/jarmo
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« Reply #5971 on: November 03, 2020, 12:06:41 PM »

VOTE

if you THINK you gonna change the world but you KNOW you are just wasting your time

 rofl rofl
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« Reply #5972 on: November 03, 2020, 12:20:55 PM »

I don't know whether it's related the elections but facebook page posted Axl's pic with ''Stay ready" yesterday and Richard's one with "All we need is just a little patience". Is it something being cooked or I am too optimistic?  Grin
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« Reply #5973 on: November 03, 2020, 12:24:01 PM »

VOTE

if you THINK you gonna change the world but you KNOW you are just wasting your time

 rofl rofl


You're ASSuming people think.

Obviously YOU don't. So stop WASTING everybody's time with your off topic NONSENSE.  rofl  rofl





/jarmo
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« Reply #5974 on: November 03, 2020, 12:38:39 PM »

I don't know whether it's related the elections but facebook page posted Axl's pic with ''Stay ready" yesterday and Richard's one with "All we need is just a little patience". Is it something being cooked or I am too optimistic?  Grin

Until the next president steps forward
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« Reply #5975 on: November 04, 2020, 01:57:59 AM »

I don't know whether it's related the elections but facebook page posted Axl's pic with ''Stay ready" yesterday and Richard's one with "All we need is just a little patience". Is it something being cooked or I am too optimistic?  Grin

Until the next president steps forward

Most probably. I was more hoping of something music related though.
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« Reply #5976 on: November 09, 2020, 10:17:35 PM »

VOTE
For The Future
Of Our Country
Our Planet
Your Planet
This Planet
The Only Planet We Have
VOTE
For Those Who Fought,
Suffered And Died

To Create And Protect
Your Right To Vote


Quite a turnaround for our boy.

As we all remember, on Jimmy Kimmel in 2012, Axl rather nonchalantly admitted that he had never voted, shrugging it off as "I live in California and it's always a landslide anyway".
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At least there's a reaction


« Reply #5977 on: November 10, 2020, 05:12:29 AM »

VOTE
For The Future
Of Our Country
Our Planet
Your Planet
This Planet
The Only Planet We Have
VOTE
For Those Who Fought,
Suffered And Died

To Create And Protect
Your Right To Vote


Quite a turnaround for our boy.

As we all remember, on Jimmy Kimmel in 2012, Axl rather nonchalantly admitted that he had never voted, shrugging it off as "I live in California and it's always a landslide anyway".


Trump has fueled the fire a bit methinks
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« Reply #5978 on: November 10, 2020, 06:32:11 AM »

VOTE
For The Future
Of Our Country
Our Planet
Your Planet
This Planet
The Only Planet We Have
VOTE
For Those Who Fought,
Suffered And Died

To Create And Protect
Your Right To Vote


Quite a turnaround for our boy.

As we all remember, on Jimmy Kimmel in 2012, Axl rather nonchalantly admitted that he had never voted, shrugging it off as "I live in California and it's always a landslide anyway".


Trump has fueled the fire a bit methinks

both sides i would say. Soros put a lot on money on biden for example. We always talk about democracy, but they just play their old power games, sadly.
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« Reply #5979 on: November 10, 2020, 02:58:21 PM »

VOTE
For The Future
Of Our Country
Our Planet
Your Planet
This Planet
The Only Planet We Have
VOTE
For Those Who Fought,
Suffered And Died

To Create And Protect
Your Right To Vote


Quite a turnaround for our boy.

As we all remember, on Jimmy Kimmel in 2012, Axl rather nonchalantly admitted that he had never voted, shrugging it off as "I live in California and it's always a landslide anyway".

He did say he leaned democrat himself. I think he wants to stay in the middle which is good. Crazy people go to extremes.
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