[football] FIFA's Southafrica 2010 World Cup

[Mandy.]

And you are wrong about Garrincha. The immense majority of '''''old'''' argentina football fans worship Garrincha a hell lot more than Pel?. And im not talking about people who ''hate'' Pele for the classic Pele-Maradona fight: my father, for example, says Garrincha was the best and most unpredictable football player he has ever seen. My father talks about Gerson, Tostao, Didi, Rivelino, the ''great'' Jairzinho; and I personally will be always amazed with Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Bebeto, Ra? and Kak?, and NOT with Pele. I watch LOTS of football. I watch football since i was 3 or 4 years old and I must admit I've not seen too much from Pel?. But Jarmo called him a ''great player''... damn!

I didnt like your last paragraph, Mandy. At all. Unnecesarily rude. Anyway, reading a post of you in this page was refreshing after so much newbie in the atmosphere 

Yes, but nobody worships Garrincha in a "God" kind of sense, that's what I was talking about. How was my last paragraph rude? The guy brings up Garrincha to make an unnacessary and out of nothing comparison and I'm rude?
Believe me, you've seen nothing. As I said, I hate Maradona (I have that right, yes?) and I haven't said one single bad word about him, and one of the reasons is because I know how much the Argentinians respect him. Do I fully understand the reasons? No, I don't. You could explain a hundred times, in a thousand different ways and I would never get it. If I did talk about him in a disrespectful manner, you could maybe call me rude, but I did not.

[jarmo]

It was a poll in Spanish where people from your country voted to have Maradona removed...

My post was in English, if you fail to see it, I'm sorry for you.

Experience can help, and it surely does, but its not a requirement.

Of course not. But as I mentioned to you, look at the four who were in the semi finals and compare to Maradona.

Nadal didnt need experience to win Roland Garros.

Was he a coach? Roland Garros is football?

Don't be silly......

Maradona may not be a good coach and there are SEVERAL reasons for it. You can not mention any of them because you clearly dont know a jack shit about football ''the game''. You may perfectly know what to say in some message board to sound cool reading ''The Sun'' or ''Marca'', and you just talk using the most basic common sense. The ''experience'' argument is just an example.

Your constant attacks of me "not knowing jack shit about football" are hilarious.

I don't read The Sun or Marca.


I watch the game and use common sense. I don't pretend to know more than others based on "we won two cups and your team hasn't won anything"....

Like you do. Your response to Ignatius was hilarious in this sense.

You think the fact that Argentina won twice (first time before you were born) makes you automatically know more about football than Ignatius because he's Spanish? Amusing.

In that case, you know jack shit compared to Voodoochild or Mandy, their team won five fucking times!

I'm still waiting for you to justify why Maradona is a bad coach. Your statement can be true, i dont deny that. But you just cant explain why you think that.

Well i don't think he picked the best players.

As far as I remember, he could've made other choices? Right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.


The first real test for his team, they didn't seem to be able to get a grasp of how to counter the German's play. Germany just kept going and Argentina didn't seem to have any idea of what to do to stop them.

You can attack and attack but when a majority of your shots come from far away and you have a German defense wall against you, maybe you need to try something else? When your shots from afar give you the feeling that this is what the Germans want us to do, maybe it's time for something else? Maybe...

When Messi, one of the best players in the world, is basically eliminated from the game, maybe you need to try something else?


Do I have all the answers? No I don't.

I'm not a football God or self proclaimed expert. I don't attack others saying they know nothing about football.


I find it pretty amusing how I can have a normal conversation with almost anybody about football without them having some kind of  inferiority complex about who knows more about football or them having the need to point out how Finland didn't qualify!

But, anyway, trust me you have better chances of teaching me modals than teaching me football. You clearly cant see anything beyond a result to make an own analysis. You simply repeat and repeat what other people who never grabbed a football ball in their lives like you say in the media, lika a parrot.

What makes you an expert?



It's funny how you come here and get all upset.

You chose to come here. It's a GN'R forum.

You had to come to a GN'R forum and tell a bunch of Europeans they're not good enough to talk to you because your national team won two World Cups (once before you were even born. Do you even remember 1986 World Cup?)....

You have to point out to a Finnish person that his national team didn't make the World Cup and that he's not allowed to support and be happy for another nation. Like insulting Finland is gonna make me mad. you got a lot to learn...

Is that what t takes to make you feel better about yourself? Good for you!






/jarmo

[nekomex]

the Jambulani (the ball) maybe is indeed a tricky thing, to many wierd goals.

i have one in my home but it has no air  , has anyone here has a jabulani and had play with it?

[Ignatius]

Let it go Jarmo, Argentinian's have already given us enough to evidence that not only they are the biggest bitter losers but also, the most biased fans.

It happens in Tennis thread also, if or when a southmaerican player/s (preferebly argentinian) is good enough to win an important tournament, they post things like he could be the best player ever blah blah...and deny the fact that the best player ever could very well be somebody from Spain who already has 8 Grand Slams titles but hey, he's not argentinian nor has the "offensive" game he likes.

I can't wait for tonight's match. I'm surprised to see how many of you considerate Germany the favorite when they really haven't played that well (other than beating Argentina in the quaters). In every poll Im reading, the feeling I get is a much equal encounter than what some of you guys think. IF history played, Germany could have an edge, but the three world cups Germany has brought home will not interfere (please refs, be fair and square tonight) with tonight's match.

If Spain can move the ball quickly like we did against Portugal or the second half vs Paraguay, Germany will struggle to get the ball.

Vamos Espa?a!

[kaasupoltin]

kaasupoltin, did you know people in Argentina cared so much about our team? I had no idea! Fucking hell. Quite amazing!

No I didn't But I've been wanting to ask them how much they actually know about the Finnish national team and it's history or what has happened in the qualifying stage 'cause they all do seem like experts on this subject.

What you people think have been the biggest dissapointments in this tournament? Or maybe not dissapointments but surprises. I'm actually not even surprised that France didn't go through from their group at all but Italy was a bit of a shock, even though I have always disliked them and was happy with the result. Also Rooney and Messi were like shadows of what I was expecting from them.. but I don't think Rooney even fits England's style that well.

has anyone here has a jabulani and had play with it?

We had one at our practice and it's very light, maybe even too light in my opinion. I still think that the Adidas Tricolore from France 1998 is the best ball I've ever played with

[Marion68]

Let it go Jarmo, Argentinian's have already given us enough to evidence that not only they are the biggest bitter losers but also, the most biased fans.



I can't wait for tonight's match. I'm surprised to see how many of you considerate Germany the favorite when they really haven't played that well (other than beating Argentina in the quaters). In every poll Im reading, the feeling I get is a much equal encounter than what some of you guys think. IF history played, Germany could have an edge, but the three world cups Germany has brought home will not interfere (please refs, be fair and square tonight) with tonight's match.

If Spain can move the ball quickly like we did against Portugal or the second half vs Paraguay, Germany will struggle to get the ball.

Vamos Espa?a!








It?s only a game but wait and see...

Los geht?s Deutschland

[Genesis]

I'm betting on Germany, although Spain is more than capable of causing an upset. Whatever the result, it's going to be fun to watch.
Yesterday's match was superb, great goals from both sides and good football all around.

[Alan]

I think Spain will win tonight, Germany do great on the break, but the Spanish don't commit men forard like we did or Argentina did. They control possession much better and very rarely give the ball away.

-------------------------------------------------------

maradona's results as argentina manager, i've put in bold the games that I feel Argentina should have won without any doubt.

2009
March 28/29
Argentina 4 v Venezuela 0

April 1st
Bolivia 6 v Argentina 1- This is not an April Fool's joke: Joaquin Botera scores a hat trick as Bolivia trounces favorite Argentina. Diego Maradona speechless.

June 6th
Argentina 1 v Colombia 0 - Daniel Diaz's first goal for his country was enough for a jittery Argentina.

June 10th
Ecuador 2 v Argentina 0 - Two late goals win the match in Quito as the Argentines continue to struggle.

Sept 5th
Argentina 1 v Brazil 3 - Goals from Luisao and a brace from Luis Fabbiano saw Brazil qualify for South Africa.

Sept 9th
Paraguay 1 v Argentina 0 - Nelson Valdez scores in Asuncion to down Argentina.

Oct 10th
Argentina 2 v Peru 1 - Martin Palermo's last gasp goal deep in injury time salvaged a win for the hosts in pouring rain in Buenos Aires. Earlier Madrid's Gonzalo Higuain had opened the scoring for Argentina with Hernan Rengifo heading an equaliser for Peru in the 90th minute.

Oct 14th
Uruguay 0 v Argentina 1 - Diego Maradona and company qualify for the World Cup thanks to a goal from substitute Mario Bolatti. Miracles never cease. To book a place in South Africa, Uruguay will have to win in a playoff against Costa Rica.

-----------------------

Argentina   0 - 4   Germany      
Argentina   3 - 1   Mexico      
Greece 0 - 2 Argentina      
Argentina   4 -1   South Korea      
Argentina   1 - 0   Nigeria

Maradona is not a coach he is a motivator, he would make a great assistant but when it comes to tactics he isn't anywhere near as good as other national coaches.

[Voodoochild]

Why Maradona wasnt as good? Its rather easy to make a comparison...

Dunga won everything he needed to make our path to the World Cup. Brazil won the Conf. Cup, we qualifyed way before it needed. Still, when we really had to win, he failwd miserably. And now he's out and we're all happy with that.

Maradona didnt win when he needed to. Not only, but Argentina lost without scoring a single goal when Germany made four. Messi pretty much got nulled. Still, he didnt get as much shit from Argentinians.

Football needs wins. Here in Brazil there's a lot of people who thinks the 1982 team was even better than the '70 one - but the later won the World Cup and its still regarded as one of the best team of all time. And Im not talkim about Pel? alone, but the whole team.

Maradona could have win against Germany, but he didn't. In a World Cup scenario there's no room for mistakes and little details can make a huge difference. So what Argentina won against Germany before? They didnt now - and thats what counts.

IMHO, Argentina has too many great players. Messi will still have plenty of time to even improve for 2014. But if they chose to stick with Maradona, they better need to start all over again the work to put togheter a more sucessful team.

[jarmo]

kaasupoltin, did you know people in Argentina cared so much about our team? I had no idea! Fucking hell. Quite amazing!

No I didn't But I've been wanting to ask them how much they actually know about the Finnish national team and it's history or what has happened in the qualifying stage 'cause they all do seem like experts on this subject.

Don't hold your breath for a proper response. Maybe one about how Finland didn't qualify and you know nothing about football.... 

What you people think have been the biggest dissapointments in this tournament? Or maybe not dissapointments but surprises. I'm actually not even surprised that France didn't go through from their group at all but Italy was a bit of a shock, even though I have always disliked them and was happy with the result. Also Rooney and Messi were like shadows of what I was expecting from them.. but I don't think Rooney even fits England's style that well.

The biggest disappointment for me was to see Messi so anonymous.


Didn't expect much from the French.... So I wasn't surprised.

Italy, yeah.




/jarmo

[One.In.A.Million]

I am so confident that Germany will win tonight.

While Germany have destroyed many teams to get to the semis, Spain just seem to have scraped by. I feel Germany will win by maybe a 2 goal margin tonight.

I honestly don't know how anyone can think Spain will win, Germany are unstoppable at the moment.

[Ignatius]

Players go to play to Europe just because they got payed better than in their own nations... regarding football level... who won more intercontinental cups? who won more sub-20/23 world cups? who won more ''senior'' world cups? who are the three best players of football history according to FIFA (an institution led by an european)? 

Dont forget these words: win a world cup first. Then start talking with big fishes like us.

Big fishes?? Man, I didn't even know that word existed.

Esteban, get your head straight man and (ideally) out of Maradona's ass (first).

With Maradona as a coach Argentina almost didn't qualify for the World Cup. It had to be in the very last minute of the last qualifiying match. With Maradona you won a few friendly matches before the Cup, same as every fucking country ; Spain, England, Italy. Those matches don't count for nothing, they are UNOFFICIAL so it's like if Argentina plays (and wins) against a third division club from Albacete (Spain).

Argentina won his group matches at the Cup cause they didn't even face a decent team. Maradona is a shit coach cause he does not know shit about tactics. I would've won those matches too as a coach if I had Messi, Higuain, Tevez, Milito De Maria and Mascherano on my team, but when Argentina faced a younger team that moved the ball and ran faster, the likes of Mascherano, Ver?n and Heinze couldn't keep up with the german attack. Maradona should've put Messi on the center instead. When Messi plays on the right (or left) wing he does not have the same mobility.  He should've looked for answers on the midfield to create opportunities. He should've put more pressure on the German's defense when they were trying to get the ball out.

Anyway, Going to go see Spain now. Can't wait.

PD. What a pity this thread. It started so well, some of the posts were actually entertaining, but some of you have really ruined it with your bitterness.

PPDD.- By the way ESteban, so applying your logic, don't even think about posting or talking to me about tennis until Del Potro wins a few more grand slams.

[kaasupoltin]

Spain has the ball control but they can't build up anything dangerous, or at least anything more dangerous than Germany can with less ball control. I actually think that Germany had the better chances. Very interesting game and a clean one too!

[jarmo]

It's apparent that Germany hasn't played a game against a team like Spain before in this tournament.

Spain looks way more aggressive than other opponents.

Spain has the ball control but they can't build up anything dangerous, or at least anything more dangerous than Germany can with less ball control. I actually think that Germany had the better chances. Very interesting game and a clean one too!

Villa had a pretty nice chance early on.... But nice save by Neuer!



Edit: Spain wins. Congrats!

Never underestimate an opponent.



/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

I'm a little dissapointet with Germany Too lazy strategy. Spain did what they had to do and in my opinion this was their best game yet, almost total control of the ball throughout the game. Germany should have scored when they had those chances, but noooooo. So congratulations Spain!

My dream final didn't happen this time But I'm glad that both teams are from Europe, especially Holland!

[Ulises]

Wanted to see Germany in finals but after this game, they showed that they don't deserved it...they played simply awful. They didn't seem to be the same team that defeated Argentina.

Congratulations Ignatius and all the spanish here. Both Holland and Spain deserves to be in finals. Germany was a huge dissapointment, you can never be in a final playing like they did today.


Hey...what's the fuck with this octopus?  


If I was Torres, I'd punch Pedro after the game

Now I can't predict who's going to win. Crazy World Cup...

[svdv22]

Today Germanys true colors came out
And thank god they didn't score a goal in the last minute.

Even though it would be a better euphory to win from germany in the finals than from spain.
Either way.. I can't wait 'till sunday!

[kaasupoltin]

Wanted to see Germany in finals but after this game, they showed that they don't deserved it...they played simply awful. They didn't seem to be the same team that defeated Argentina.

I think it was the exact same team, Argentina just can't be compared to Spain in any way

[Genesis]

Unbelievable. Germany looked so ordinary today, was Muller their lucky charm? Not a single attack on the Spanish goal.
That's what you get for not taking Paul The Psychic Octopus seriously.

[Voodoochild]

Congrats Spain and Ignatius!

Germany was awfully bad. Spain won, but lost several opportunities to score way more.