[football] FIFA's Southafrica 2010 World Cup

[jarmo]

This thread is disgusting now.

BTW, I am South American (Brazilian) and I dont agree with Ulisses, esteban and Mandy are saying. Please, dont make generalizations.

FYI Im 29 and I played soccer for as much as 25 years. I not only watch, Ive also worked as a jornalist covering football about 4 years ago.

Weird as paradojic! Now I read you, you're right! Jarmo is doing something that he considers "risky" and "scary", he's generalizing saying that south american people is like me, estebanf or Mandy when we are 320 millions!

If you hadn't started your disrespectful shit with the whole "you know nothing about football" and your fellow country man hadn't posted (in Spanish) about how we have no football history here, I wouldn't have given you examples of why I think your disrespectful/ignorant thinking is scary in the first place.

You brought it upon yourself because of your disrespectful statements.


Don't try to make me out to be the bad guy. I just played along using your own logic.

What you said is disrespectful, what the other guy said is ignorant.



You don't agree with me, fine. But to claim I know nothing about the sport, and failing to provide any evidence to back up your claims, it just means you're full of shit.

As I said, show me how I'm wrong and if you convince me, I'll admit to being wrong.

But you haven't managed.

You also haven't managed to inform me what exactly makes you the #1 football expert on this site. You certainly act like nobody else knows as much as you. Unless they're South American of course.


I'm glad that there are people who see through your bullshit though.

If I insulted anybody else in South America, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. I just have little patience for people who pull things out of their asses just because they don't like what I say.




/jarmo

[One.In.A.Million]

I even must admit that I thought Argentina would be a real contender in this match, maybe even winning it. But Germany just left off from how they ended against England.

But I must say, as I'm English, It kind of makes me happy. As it validates more what England went through, and it can be argued that England were better than Argentina. As we got 2 goals past Germany, and we played well for 3/4's of the match. Where I felt that Argentina lost it after Germanys first goal in the opening minutes.

OMG, will you stop posting about England already? England were shit. Right from the beginning. Or did you forget how atrocious Green's own goal was? They came second in their group to the US of A and scored two bloody goals in the first round. How can you compare that against Argentina? They won all their matches when even Germany lost to Serbia. Two different matches, two different situations. Argentina played badly in the quarter final, England never even got off to go anywhere in the first place.

Calm down, I was only making an observation based on what people said after the England game. And I even said myself, that it makes me feel better that a team as good as Argentina also struggled against Germany.

And if you want to talk about England being shit, against Germany, Argentina was shitter. 

[Mandy.]

It's ridiculous that it seems like people are taking what Ulises said and making it seem like it's the same thing I or Esteban said.


I did not, in any way, claim that I know more about football than Jarmo. I did, however, say that he doesn't seem to feel the sport like I do. And for that, I still don't think I'm wrong, because he said it with his own words a few posts back that, for him, it's just another sport. While for me, it isn't. I never said that South Americans know more about the sport (and I don't remember anyone saying that, but correct me if I'm wrong), and I even used Jon's example as somebody who seems to know a lot about football. I used that to make sure nobody misunderstood me in that sense, of saying that people from Sweden, Finland, or whatever country you want don't understand it.


One person says one thing and all of a sudden all South Americans regularly posting in this thread said the same. Awesome.

Now it seems all of you southamericans are sore losers. Since the likes of Brazil, Argentina and the force, Chile are out, you guys are posting nonsense to avoid the facts that your teams have lost. Thats fucking ridiculous.

And that's your best explanation for what's been going on in this thread?


C'mon, you can do better.

[Ulises]

This is my last post about it because I had enough with doing off-topic and things went too far.

Never said that europeans (be those finnish, swedish, etc.) don't know about football, just said that MAYBE they don't feel football like us and that's why they are unable to understand what Suarez did. And I've NEVER generalized, I was arguing ONLY with Jarmo and saying that reading him make me feel that he doesn't know that much about what he's talking about. But..ONCE AGAIN...its an opinion...could be wrong or could be right, he thinks that I am a "self righteous pompous bitter loser" and that's an opinion too. If someone find a message of mine saying "I know more about football than you" you get a prize.

And I don't want all this become into a non-sense "South America vs Europe" war. It's not my intention and if someone got that from my words is because my words were twisted.


Anyway...I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT SPAIN GET KICKED FROM THE CUP.

[Voodoochild]

Mandy, I didnt say you agreed with Ulisses or anything like that. I say I didnt agree with you (like on the referee vs. Technology issue). I know both you and esteban, I wouldnt put you guys in the same bag.

Jarmo, I didnt feel insulted or anything like that at all.

From what is worth, I love football, but I never liked discussing it to death (specially because its a competition of knowledge). That doesnt make me less fan - I almost had a heart attack when my team (Sport Recife) won the Brazilian Cup in 2008.

I also love the World Cup and I enjoy it very much even without Brazil there.

[jarmo]

I did, however, say that he doesn't seem to feel the sport like I do.

And that's an issue why exactly?

It's probably true for most of us here. We don't all think alike about football because we have different backgrounds, relations etc. to the sport.

Why is that an issue with me?

I was arguing ONLY with Jarmo and saying that reading him make me feel that he doesn't know that much about what he's talking about. But..ONCE AGAIN...its an opinion...could be wrong or could be right,

You still don't fucking get it.

If you call somebody a moron, and that person asks you why, you better tell that person why or shut the fuck up.

You haven't been able to point it out.

Instead you pointed put how Finland has no players (basically that was what you tried to say by mentioning Litmanen and Hyypi?), how I think collecting World Cup cards means I think I know about the sport and other ridiculous shit you said.

Nowhere have you managed to say anything substantial. It's all childish bullshit from a guy who's upset because his favorite "coach" didn't manage to get his team into the semifinals.


Just remember, next time you want to disrespect me, make sure to have thought of a reason why in advance. Before you spew your bullshit.

he thinks that I am a "self righteous pompous bitter loser" and that's an opinion too.

It's very obvious you missed the point.

I said that to try to point out to you how your "opinion" can be insulting and disrespectful to others.

Especially when you keep repeating the same shit and not being able to back your words up.

You still haven't.

And I don't want all this become into a non-sense "South America vs Europe" war. It's not my intention and if someone got that from my words is because my words were twisted.

Nobody twisted your words.


You made yourself look like a fool.

Several people noticed it.



/jarmo

[estebanf]

As for Jarmo's words regarding ''a bunch of bitter southamericans''... mmhh, something about your posts aimed to us stinks...

of course im bitter, even though I actually never showed the bitterness here. Its logical and normal being bitter after being eliminated in a world cup. There are certain nations that will be always end up a world cup being bitter unless they are world champions: brazil, italy, germany, argentina, france... and that's the magic of football for the people who really feel what football is about, and Im not talking about southamericans: italians feel the same, for example.

Humilliation is another word that could only be used for a newbie impressed by a result.  This, and qualifying a last-resource hand in the line to avoid an elimination in a world cup ''cheating'' makes me think you're lacking something very important to understand football: feeling it.

If you think a hand is cheating, then you must think a last-man foul is ''cheating'' too, or that grabbing an opponent from the shirt when he's faster than you and will undoubtly score if you dont stop him is ''cheating'' also, as these are all examples of infractions. Well, if this was the case, there were 32 cheaters in this world cup, 20 cheaters in the spanish La Liga, and 20 cheaters in the italian calcio serie A... fucking ridiculous.

The world cup ended for me, because Argentina was eliminated. The good thing for someone who doesnt feel football is you can always cheer for the winner, no matter what teams are playing, so the world cup ends the day of the final.

In one way or another, i admire you: you can still enjoy this world cup, and you'll never feel as sad as I am right now, as i was in 2006, as i was in 2002, as i was [...].

But trust me that i cant imagine my life without football. And you'll never feel what I feel when i see Maradona on argentina's bench, or when Riquelme scored against Brazil in 2006 qualifyings, or when I see Ortega with 36 years still playing for River. Ever felt shivers down your spine while watching old videos of your football idols? I cant help crying everytime I watch Maradona crying and insulting after losing 1990's final. We were robbed with a penalty that never existed. Have you ever seen any argentine saying Rudi Voeller ''cheated''? damn no, he simulated a foul. he took a risk, and he had the results he wanted. Blame the referee if you feel the need to blame anyone, not the player.

The difference is you probably feel football like any other entretainment: you can watch football like you see ''Friends'' or like you watch a rock DVD. We live football. We breath football. Football is an everyday thing like breakfast or having a bath for us. Mandy's words may probably express my feelings better, since she speaks english a lot better than me. Of course there are exceptions: i really think voodoochild is an incredible exception for a brazilian. I had the chance of being in brazil twice and I discovered the majority of them feel the same than us: i was this summer in Rio to see Guns, and trust me: the way the cariocas feel the red and black colours of Flamengo's shirt is just unbelievable. And not to mention the way they felt (they dont feel the same now, Mandy told me...) about Adriano, former Flamengo striker, absent in this world cup. He was everywhere: in t-shirts, painted in the walls, in all newspapers, in all chats. Brazil has idols, football heroes that are treated like national heroes, just like us. They play football in the beach, in the streets, inside houses... football is everywhere. Its not casual that they're the best (5 times world champions...)

Nobody forces you to feel ''a game'' like we feel it. This is just my opinion. So, you dont need to keep attacking us ''bitter southamericans'' with all your harmful comments. You're not bitter just because you have NOTHING to be bitter for, and because you'll never feel bitterness if you dont feel football. But you'll never feel all the beautiful things i described above either, things that we feel extremely often. And that's the beauty of football: feelings.

Man, I just love soccer ( i kid i kid).

I have been reading this thread for a few weeks. All you southamericans were all in greay mood cause your teams had advanced into the knockout finals. You had your head up your ass. I even read somebody posting Chile was a favorite against spain last week... What the fuck, Chile?? For the love of god...

Now it seems all of you southamericans are sore losers. Since the likes of Brazil, Argentina and the force, Chile are out, you guys are posting nonsense to avoid the facts that your teams have lost. Thats fucking ridiculous. Your arguments are hilarious. All your " you dont know nothing about the sport" because we werent born in rio or bbaa is biased anf pathetic. Not to mentioned, clueless. Maradona is a dick, a hero in argentina, but a clown everywhere else. Kaka amongst the best two players in the world? Give me a break.  Kaka has not been able to dribble past a defender in almost 2 years now.

I knew this was going to happen though. The moment the southamericans start to lose, its either when they stop posting or if they do, they come up with this cult
propaganda about "what really football is". This same thing has happened in the tennis thread where as soon as their favorite player got injured and stopped playing, they stopped posting all of the sudden.

Anyway, spain on to the semis and rafa
nadal to win his second wimbledon today.

Stop being an ethernal favourite and win a world cup, ''furia espa?ola''  . Spain is the biggest fraud in football history: 50 years as favourite, 50 years failing. You should thank Maradona, Kaka, Romario, Rivaldo, Messi, Zamorano and Di Stefano, among others. If anyone in the world knows the spanish league its because of them, southamerican cracks.

Give one important name to football history. Then try again your mocking.

But hey, at least you have a nation to cheer up! 

[jarmo]

Humilliation is another word that could only be used for a newbie impressed by a result.  This, and qualifying a last-resource hand in the line to avoid an elimination in a world cup ''cheating'' makes me think you're lacking something very important to understand football: feeling it.

It's got nothing to do with understanding football. When will you get it?

I understand football pretty well. You and your pal just can't admit it because of your bitterness.


Just because I don't relate to your way of thinking about the sport doesn't mean I don't understand the sport.

I don't like dirty tricks to decide a game, I prefer fair play. You think you should so whatever it takes to win.

You say I don't understand football, I say you don't understand fair play football.

Something that's ordinary to you, is not ordinary to me.

The world cup ended for me, because Argentina was eliminated. The good thing for someone who doesnt feel football is you can always cheer for the winner, no matter what teams are playing, so the world cup ends the day of the final.

Nice guess. Unfortunately for you, it's wrong in my case.

Ever since I started following the sport (that I don't understand), two teams made an impact on me. Brazil and the Netherlands. It was fun watching them play.

I guess it helped that both were popular in the 1970s and I kept hearing about players such as Pele and Cryuff. So those two became my favorite teams.

Now, can you tell me how many World Cups the Netherlands have won since I started following this sport that I don't know in the 1980s?

It must be many since I always cheer for the winner!

In one way or another, i admire you: you can still enjoy this world cup, and you'll never feel as sad as I am right now, as i was in 2006, as i was in 2002, as i was [...].

Yeah, it sucks when your favorite team (or athlete, race car driver etc.) doesn't win.

But I have learned a lesson in life and it still holds true: You can't always win.

I might be upset for a while after Kimi didn't finish a race, when Finland lost a game in ice hockey or when Holland was sent home from a cup, but I get over it.

I don't go to the airport and threaten to kick anybody's ass over it or hate somebody because they support the wrong team.

Ever felt shivers down your spine while watching old videos of your football idols?

Yes.

I cant help crying everytime I watch Maradona crying and insulting after losing 1990's final. We were robbed with a penalty that never existed. Have you ever seen any argentine saying Rudi Voeller ''cheated''? damn no, he simulated a foul. he took a risk, and he had the results he wanted. Blame the referee if you feel the need to blame anyone, not the player.

Never liked Völler. He had that thing with Rijkaard....  By the way, that was just wrong by Rijkaard to spit! Shameful.


Oh man. I remember back in the early/mid-90s when they were showing Serie A football on Swedish TV and I was able to watch the three Dutchmen play in AC Milan almost every week.... van Basten. Now that was a football player!

I remember him as being a fair player. Maybe it's my clouded memory and he used his hand in every game... But I don't understand the sport anyway.

The difference is you probably feel football like any other entretainment: you can watch football like you see ''Friends'' or like you watch a rock DVD.

No,, my pulse doesn't go up watching regular TV.

I guess I just don't understand or feel the sport like you said though.

I guess I get nervous and my pulse goes up because I'm just trying to understand the sport. Yeah. That must be it.




Nice try. Just shows how well you know me.


Edit:

Have you seen this poll?
http://www.misionmundial.com.ar/

¿Cree que Maradona debe continuar como DT de la Selección tras el Mundial?

Sí 37,9% (38629 votos)

No 62,1% (63330 votos)


Who are the clueless people voting on that Argentinian web site?

Wasn't me. You guys know so much about football, how come so many of you want a new coach? Don't these people understand the sport?





/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

"Former World Cup referee Graham Poll has said FIFA should consider introducing penalty-goals after Luis Suarez's handball prevented a last-gasp goal against Uruguay and in so doing denied Ghana a certain semi-final place."

"The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one."

I agree.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/806034/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

[One.In.A.Million]

"Former World Cup referee Graham Poll has said FIFA should consider introducing penalty-goals after Luis Suarez's handball prevented a last-gasp goal against Uruguay and in so doing denied Ghana a certain semi-final place."

"The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one."

I agree.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/806034/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

That is exactly what I have been saying.

It wasn't just a good chance at goal, or even a 1 on 1 with the keeper, it was a 100% goal that was going in the back of the net in about 0.01 secs.

And to say that I can't call it cheating because he got his punishment, is rediculous. Especially since he would have gotten the same punishment if he had handballed it in the penalty area costing a good chance fo a goal. But I will say it again it was a fact that without that handball, Ghana would be in the semis, and yes I can call it cheating if I so choose.

This was not a normal circumstance of a handball, it was a match deciding act that was selfish.

How is it fair to give a 50% chance on goal (penalty), when the offender took away a 100% goal. 

[eduardo'GNR]

"Former World Cup referee Graham Poll has said FIFA should consider introducing penalty-goals after Luis Suarez's handball prevented a last-gasp goal against Uruguay and in so doing denied Ghana a certain semi-final place."

"The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one."

I agree.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/806034/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

That is exactly what I have been saying.

It wasn't just a good chance at goal, or even a 1 on 1 with the keeper, it was a 100% goal that was going in the back of the net in about 0.01 secs.

And to say that I can't call it cheating because he got his punishment, is rediculous. Especially since he would have gotten the same punishment if he had handballed it in the penalty area costing a good chance fo a goal. But I will say it again it was a fact that without that handball, Ghana would be in the semis, and yes I can call it cheating if I so choose.

This was not a normal circumstance of a handball, it was a match deciding act that was selfish.

How is it fair to give a 50% chance on goal (penalty), when the offender took away a 100% goal. 

Again, if you know the basic rules of soccer, please re-watch the allegedly "foul" that gave place to the Free Kick that almost ended in a goal, you will find out that the foul against Ghana's player NEVER EXISTED. So why do you look at the -penalized- handball and ignore the nonexistent foul that originated the free kick?

Also, there was a clear off-side that -if noticed by the referee- would have invalidated the whole play.

[kaasupoltin]

"Former World Cup referee Graham Poll has said FIFA should consider introducing penalty-goals after Luis Suarez's handball prevented a last-gasp goal against Uruguay and in so doing denied Ghana a certain semi-final place."

"The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one."

I agree.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/806034/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

That is exactly what I have been saying.

It wasn't just a good chance at goal, or even a 1 on 1 with the keeper, it was a 100% goal that was going in the back of the net in about 0.01 secs.

And to say that I can't call it cheating because he got his punishment, is rediculous. Especially since he would have gotten the same punishment if he had handballed it in the penalty area costing a good chance fo a goal. But I will say it again it was a fact that without that handball, Ghana would be in the semis, and yes I can call it cheating if I so choose.

This was not a normal circumstance of a handball, it was a match deciding act that was selfish.

How is it fair to give a 50% chance on goal (penalty), when the offender took away a 100% goal. 

Again, if you know the basic rules of soccer, please re-watch the allegedly "foul" that gave place to the Free Kick that almost ended in a goal, you will find out that the foul against Ghana's player NEVER EXISTED. So why do you look at the -penalized- handball and ignore the nonexistent foul that originated the free kick?

You can go way back with this "but it wouldn't have happened if that wouldn't have happened first".. referee mistakes are part of the game so I think your argument/defence is pretty naive.

[One.In.A.Million]

"Former World Cup referee Graham Poll has said FIFA should consider introducing penalty-goals after Luis Suarez's handball prevented a last-gasp goal against Uruguay and in so doing denied Ghana a certain semi-final place."

"The problem is that Ghana were denied a goal, not just the opportunity to score one."

I agree.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/806034/ce/uk/?cc=5739&ver=global

That is exactly what I have been saying.

It wasn't just a good chance at goal, or even a 1 on 1 with the keeper, it was a 100% goal that was going in the back of the net in about 0.01 secs.

And to say that I can't call it cheating because he got his punishment, is rediculous. Especially since he would have gotten the same punishment if he had handballed it in the penalty area costing a good chance fo a goal. But I will say it again it was a fact that without that handball, Ghana would be in the semis, and yes I can call it cheating if I so choose.

This was not a normal circumstance of a handball, it was a match deciding act that was selfish.

How is it fair to give a 50% chance on goal (penalty), when the offender took away a 100% goal. 

Again, if you know the basic rules of soccer, please re-watch the allegedly "foul" that gave place to the Free Kick that almost ended in a goal, you will find out that the foul against Ghana's player NEVER EXISTED. So why do you look at the -penalized- handball and ignore the nonexistent foul that originated the free kick?

You can go way back with this "but it wouldn't have happened if that wouldn't have happened first".. referee mistakes are part of the game so I think your argument/defence is pretty naive.

I agree, you can keep going back till the cows come home, and pick at every little detail in a game. And if you want to say that, I'm certain Uraguay had just as many decisions go their way during the whole match, stuff like that evens out.

It's a bit different from a player deliberately using his hands to stop a 100% goal. I think what people are failing to see here is that it was a volleyball like punch, that was 100% intended to cost the other team the winning goal. If you can't see how that can be seen by some people as a form of cheating in a game called football, then I give up. 

[Ignacio]

Tristeza n?o tem fin, felicidade si... even for me 

Germany was a fn' killing machine in the field. They have really grown as a team since the WC began. I think they have strong chances to get the Cup this year...

IMO, Argentina seemed out of lidership the other day. Just cant really say much about it. The final score board speaks for itself. The fast goal from Germany was a huge slap for the team. I really miss JR Riquelme, its the kinda players for that kind of match (no matter what the hatters say  )

And about this Suarez hand thing... We can say it wasnt a gentleman's-sport action but in some way I understand him. Maybe everyone who played and feel so deep football more less understand him... But the rules punished him and Ghana had its chance. Useless to cry about it now.

[D]

Just saw the Uruguay thing on Sportscenter and let me tell u, that guy is a GENIUS!

If he doesn't do that, his team is eliminated! Very smart, very heads up.

[CheapJon]

In a way I see him as a terrorist or suicide bomber 

pulling kamikaze shit like that aint heroic or genius in my book


have no idea why it's still discussed though, let's just move on and focus on the semifinals shall we?

[Lady Ashba]

He did what he had to do to save his team.. and here (Uruguay) he's being considered a heroe. No matter what happens from now on, truth is we are in the top 4 when we qualified last and nobody gave us any chance, so one way or another, who's laughing now! Enough about Su?rez already, he's not the first to do that, and he certainly won't be the last. We can start discussing the semis as from tomorrow, when Netherlands will most likely kick our ass Just please, be gentle

[One.In.A.Million]

Well yeah, I must admit I'm looking forward to Uraguay being knocked out tomorrow by Holland. 

[CheapJon]

Well yeah, I must admit I'm looking forward to Uraguay being knocked out tomorrow by Holland. 

i'm not so sure but i hope so as well (and that have absolutely nothing to do with the "incident")

[freedom78]

Well yeah, I must admit I'm looking forward to Uraguay being knocked out tomorrow by Holland. 

I wouldn't assume anything.  By all measures, Uruguay shouldn't be alive at this point...and yet they are.  If it were all played on paper, Brazil would win every time.