[football] FIFA's Southafrica 2010 World Cup

[jarmo]

You cheat when you take steroids to run more than your opponent instead of training fairly.

Like Maradona when he took Ephedrine? Or when he took Cocaine?





/jarmo

Yes. Exactly. Taking drugs is cheating.

You dont really want to know what my opinion is. Its perfectly clear you want to mess with me, knowing I'm argentine, and argentine people love Maradona and gets hurt with that kind of arguments. I know what to say if I want to hurt a brazilian, a french, a mexican, but even though i'm a fanatic I really dont want to hurt anyone freely. In the end, this is just a game. So i will just say YES. That's cheating.

But its not only that you dont take any advantage by taking cocaine to play sports. In fact, cocaine worsens any sport player performance A LOT. Maradona was not trying to get any advantage: he was sick, he took those drugs in parties, not like Ben Johnson who took drugs ONCE to improve his performance. Cocaine almost sent Maradona to the graveyard.

ABout ephedrine... mhh, well...

Just making sure you feel the same way about cheating when it's your own national hero doing it. 

Since you're not allowed to have cocaine in your system and they test for it, it must be cheating like you said. No matter how much you try to justify it having the opposite effect....




/jarmo

[Ulises]

COOL!!!!! Now we're judging people for being addict to drugs? (a disease, by the way).


We mustn't forget where we are, we are in a Guns N' Roses forum. Sure, GN'R members only drank tea in 1987

[CheapJon]

lol, it's a pity this thread heads this way all the time, a couple of days ago it was about goal cameras and what not and now about this




it is what it is

[jarmo]

COOL!!!!! Now we're judging people for being addict to drugs? (a disease, by the way).


We mustn't forget where we are, we are in a Guns N' Roses forum. Sure, GN'R members only drank tea in 1987

Are you serious?

What the fuck does using banned substances in sports, something your fellow countryman labeled as cheating earlier, have to do with GN'R?


NOTHING!

It's just an Argentinian getting upset because I dared to point out that their national hero has been busted for using prohibited substances while still being an active player.

But I get it, you don't need to say anything else. There's cheating and then there's cheating. 


As far as I'm concerned, there's only one. And it doesn't matter what nationality the person cheating has. Finnish or Argentinian. They should still be banned for life. 



/jarmo

[One.In.A.Million]

I agree that the referee gave the red card and the penalty, because that's how far he can go under the rules of the game. But it's something that the Uraguayan team should be ashamed of, and they will no doubt know in their hearts, that they lost the match.

They won't care of course, because they are through, by cheating. (Yes it's cheating)

I'm not arguing about the rules of the game, they were clearly followed by the officials, as far as they could. I'm on about using an act (handball), that's not allowed, to rob the opposing team of a goal that was 0.01 seconds of going over the line and winning them the match.

It's plain wrong, the world knows it, the ref's knew it. Just because the ref handed out the worse punishment he could, does not mean, Uraguay won fairly.

And to say "that's football" is just funny, because well, it was "handball", if you get the pun.  

[Jim]

... Oh, god. I do hate to do it, but I've got to side with the anti-. Err, that is...

I truly believe that much anybody playing football today would do exactly the same thing.

Whatever anybody says (and, this right here is a fact) it is not cheating; it is within the rules. You handle the ball, you give away a penalty. This is a situation that will hardly ever come up, which is why you don't see it; the last minute, of extra time? A red card at that point means absolutely dick. In doing it, you accept the consequences, unlike a poor refereeing decision it can be done by ANY player on the pitch at any time; they are fully aware of what will happen.

You will always see (and, if you don't, then you clearly do not watch football), week in week out, a player (the best example is always Makelele for Chelsea), a clever player, make a deliberate foul when they can see that a break isn't exactly panning out in their favour. They know that they will receive a yellow card, and so they take it, in the manner of the rules!, because they know that it is the lesser evil.

I would expect most anybody on the pitch to do exactly the same in the circumstance.

[estebanf]

... Oh, god. I do hate to do it, but I've got to side with the anti-. Err, that is...

I truly believe that much anybody playing football today would do exactly the same thing.

Whatever anybody says (and, this right here is a fact) it is not cheating; it is within the rules. You handle the ball, you give away a penalty. This is a situation that will hardly ever come up, which is why you don't see it; the last minute, of extra time? A red card at that point means absolutely dick. In doing it, you accept the consequences, unlike a poor refereeing decision it can be done by ANY player on the pitch at any time; they are fully aware of what will happen.

You will always see (and, if you don't, then you clearly do not watch football), week in week out, a player (the best example is always Makelele for Chelsea), a clever player, make a deliberate foul when they can see that a break isn't exactly panning out in their favour. They know that they will receive a yellow card, and so they take it, in the manner of the rules!, because they know that it is the lesser evil.

I would expect most anybody on the pitch to do exactly the same in the circumstance.

flawless post.

banned for life? I just cant believe what my poor little eyes are reading.

any player, absolutely any football player, no matter what nationality, would do the same suarez did in that situation.

[Mandy.]

This

That, Jarmo, if you want, was unfair. And it was unfair because a guy scored a goal with his hand (against the rules) but the goal was given anyway. But GHANA HAD A PENALTY KICK. There was a punishment against Suarez and no punishment against Maradona. However, like I said, is football.

Anyway...I don't know why I'm doing this effort. You don't see football as we do. We give it all in the ground, we have passion for football, you just want marketing.

And this

Jarmo...with all respect...do you know something about football?

Did you see HOW MANY TIMES AND HOW HARD Maradona was tackled when he was a player, he complained but never said it was unfair. You can complain about hard tackles but you never can say (well...if you know SOMETHING about football) that a hard tackle is unfair. It's part of the game, when you play football (did you?) there's  the risk you get tackled or something. It's the game.

WE MISSED THE POINT: All I'm trying to do is show you guys that Uruguay won FAIR because they was punished for their behaviour (and Ghana blew it). They took the risk, and things went good for them.

said it all.



Seriously, Jarmo. How many football matches do you watch a week? How hard do you cheer for your country during the World Cup? How often do you and your friends go out for a little football? How many discussions about it do you have with your friends, in person? How many times do you go to the stadium in a whole year?

In football, it's not about "these are the rules and it's simple as that". There are a lot of things to take into account. It's one of the most subjective sports, in my opinion.


Sorry if the Ghana player can't kick a fuckin' penalty. Everyone who knows how to properly shoot a penalty, hardly ever misses it. If your logic is: "he can't stop the ball with has hand, therefore, it is cheating". Then, every single match in the world is unfair and full of cheaters, because fouls and offsides are also """""against the rules"""" (which is why the team that commits them is punished).

This is a situation that will hardly ever come up, which is why you don't see it; the last minute, of extra time? A red card at that point means absolutely dick.

Actually, it means a lot to Uruguay. They were truly punished. They lost nobody less than one of their best players (I'd say the best one, besides Forl?n) for an extremely important semi-final match against Holland.

But, Jim, you also said it all in your post.



And this:

any player, absolutely any football player, no matter what nationality, would do the same suarez did in that situation.

ends this discusstion for me.

[One.In.A.Million]

Here we go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwq_y1yQZ_s

Watch that, and tell me that's fair and justified. I'm not saying he never got punished, he got as much as the refs could give. But it's wrong for the game, that this has happened to Ghana.

It was in, Ghana won in my eyes.

And to say this happens all the time is rediculous, we are talking about the World Cup Finals, not a Saturday in the Premier League. 

[Genesis]

It certainly wasn't within the spirit of the rules, but like some people said, any footballer in that situation would do the same. It's called desperation. When you see the ball flying towards the goal, it's a World Cup quarter final match and your country will get eliminated, I'm sure the only thing that will go through your head at that moment is to get that ball away from the goal at any cost. He did pay the price for it.

Ultimately, the match was about Ghana not exploiting the chances they were given. Fortune always favours the brave.

[freedom78]

... Oh, god. I do hate to do it, but I've got to side with the anti-. Err, that is...

I truly believe that much anybody playing football today would do exactly the same thing.

Whatever anybody says (and, this right here is a fact) it is not cheating; it is within the rules. You handle the ball, you give away a penalty. This is a situation that will hardly ever come up, which is why you don't see it; the last minute, of extra time? A red card at that point means absolutely dick. In doing it, you accept the consequences, unlike a poor refereeing decision it can be done by ANY player on the pitch at any time; they are fully aware of what will happen.

You will always see (and, if you don't, then you clearly do not watch football), week in week out, a player (the best example is always Makelele for Chelsea), a clever player, make a deliberate foul when they can see that a break isn't exactly panning out in their favour. They know that they will receive a yellow card, and so they take it, in the manner of the rules!, because they know that it is the lesser evil.

I would expect most anybody on the pitch to do exactly the same in the circumstance.

While it may have seemed dirty, it was a rational decision. 

Choice A: Don't handle the ball, 100% chance it goes in, infinitesimal chance that your side somehow scores in the remaining two or three seconds...likelihood of losing, approximately 100%

Choice B: Handle the ball, knowing there's a high probability you'll get carded and give away a PK.  Assuming this pans out, a 75% chance that the PK is made, resulting in a loss, as well as a 50-ish% chance of losing on the resulting tiebreaker PKs...likelihood of losing, about 87.5%. 

So, Suarez took the chance and Uruguay got lucky.  But in the face of a certain loss, it was the rational (albeit split second) choice.

[Genesis]

Man, I can't wait for today's game. Argentina vs. Germany.
Argentina FTW.

[nekomex]

why does Maradona use of drugs has to do with this argument? am not from Argentina but it seems like it was just made to piss of the Argentinian users.

the hand its the same as when a player is against the goalkeeper and then the goalkeeper is fainted and he has no other choice but to tackle the other player, that happens all the time and its the same situation, if you dont make the foul the other team gets the goal.

you can argue that its moraly wrong but its not unjust, Uruguay made a foul and got charged with a penalty, Ghana fucked up the oportunity thats it. 

Uruguay winning its 100% fair.

[svdv22]

I Understand why suarez did it and the referee took the right actions. And yes, probably almost every player wouldve done the same. Doesnt take away, ulises and other Uruguay fans, that there is no respect left for suarez or maybe the complete team. He might be a hero to you, he is a loser to the rest of the world. And will be remembered for that.

[kaasupoltin]

And I really think Suarez gave Ghana a greater chance to win than Ghana created themselves in that play, because he could really have used his head instead of his hand.

He gave them a better chance to win by blocking a sure goal with his hands at the last minute? What the fuck are you talking about? And of course he would have used his head if that would have been possible. But it wasn't. And it's stupid and useless to try and make his actions more acceptable by saying something like that 'cause he did what he did.

Well...It seems here's someone who understands football besides me and estebanf. 

So anyone who disagrees with you and estebanf doesn't understand anything about football? I guess I've wasted all these years 'cause my opinion about this situation differs from you South Americans and you people seem to be the only one who know anything about football

[Ulises]

Here we go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwq_y1yQZ_s

Watch that, and tell me that's fair and justified. I'm not saying he never got punished, he got as much as the refs could give. But it's wrong for the game, that this has happened to Ghana.

It was in, Ghana won in my eyes.

And to say this happens all the time is rediculous, we are talking about the World Cup Finals, not a Saturday in the Premier League. 

AND THAT'S GREAT!!!! But sadly, we are in Earth not in One.In.A.Million planet.

Who's going to play next week in semifinals? Uruguay against Netherlands. But sure, One.In.A.Million dictates that Ghana won.

[CheapJon]

you guys are ruining the world cup experience for me








get over it gentlemen

[jarmo]

Seriously, Jarmo. How many football matches do you watch a week? How hard do you cheer for your country during the World Cup? How often do you and your friends go out for a little football? How many discussions about it do you have with your friends, in person? How many times do you go to the stadium in a whole year?

I don't need to go to a stadium to know about the game do I?

I don't need to cheer for my country, who's never been the world cup, do know about the game do I?

I've only been watching the game since before you were born, but I guess you can teach me all about it since you go to the stadium more often than me!

I normally hate the idea of bringing age (or gender) into the discussion because it shouldn't be an issue, but the things I've just read from you and earlier from some others is just disrespectful.

You obviously think the rest of us are clueless morons and you're the authority on football.




Please Mandy, why do they call it football? Can you explain it to me since I have no idea.

Sure you must know all this because somebody probably told you at the stadium!

why does Maradona use of drugs has to do with this argument? am not from Argentina but it seems like it was just made to piss of the Argentinian users.

To establish the fact that some people make a difference between one guy cheating and another guy cheating.



Right now we have a bunch of South Americans supporting Uruguay while they tell others they know nothing about football.

Hilarious.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/03/fifa-may-extend-luis-suarez-ban

Su?rez is being hailed as a hero in his home country but the incident has provoked condemnation in other parts of the world. His action is also contrary to Fifa's fair play code which states: "Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure."

Fucking FIFA, they know nothing about football. I guess they need to visit the stadiums more often and play ball with their friends!

 

It certainly wasn't within the spirit of the rules, but like some people said, any footballer in that situation would do the same. It's called desperation. .

True. But I would still call it what it is.

No matter if it's Uruguay, Brazil or Holland.





/jarmo

[Jim]

What might be regarded in Europe or Africa as cheating is seen as cunning or exploitation of the rules in other parts of the world.

It could be seen as a moral question or an issue of sportsmanship but, despite what Pantsil said, does anybody really think that professional players all over the world would not have done the same thing?

[Ulises]

Jarmo...let's just pretend you play football (reading you it's clearly that you don't), your team is in a World Cup, it's the LAST minute, you're persuing to qualify to semifinals, you know your team are going to lose...what you would do in that situation? And no hypocrisy, please.