[football] FIFA's Southafrica 2010 World Cup

[jarmo]

So for all the ones who think it's ok to stop a goal in extra time by using your hand...

Let's say tomorrow a German player tackles Messi so bad that he's injured until the winter. The German is sent off and then Germany wins by scoring a goal.

Fair?

I guess so!

Anyway...I don't know why I'm doing this effort. You don't see football as we do. We give it all in the ground, we have passion for football, you just want marketing.

No. Maybe you want to win at all cost. No matter if it's done with dirty tricks.

While some of us prefer a fair game where you don't have to use your hand..... 




/jarmo

[Ulises]

So for all the ones who think it's ok to stop a goal in extra time by using your hand...

Let's say tomorrow a German player tackles Messi so bad that he's injured until the winter. The German is sent off and then Germany wins by scoring a goal.

Fair?

I guess so!






/jarmo

Yes, because he was sent off. Would be unfair if the german tackles Messi and the refferee don't show him any card.

[kaasupoltin]

It's not about who loves football the most. It's about the fact that a goal is not the same thing as a possible goal (=penalty).

[Voodoochild]

Ghana wasn't robbed. Ghana had a penalty kick and they blew it. Try to understand, is not THAT hard.

He's not a twat. He's a guy who loves his country and feel his country in his blood and his heart and he's a guy who would do anything for his team and for his country. Is not like european teams who have foreign players in their squads and doesn't have this feel for the team and for the country. TRY TO UNDERSTAND...WE LOVE FOOTBALL...WE BREATHE FOOTBALL AND WE GIVE IT ALL IN A MATCH. That's the difference between you and us.

That's not really fair play, which FIFA supports. It's the same as having a serious injury in the other team and not stop it for medical aid. This has nothing to do with loving their country.

And stop with this "it's a men's thing". I'm both man and South American but I don't agree with such a disrespectful behavior in a match. It's a shame the same way it was a shame when Luis Fabiano scored - only this time it's actually worse because it was in a really key moment.

[jarmo]

So for all the ones who think it's ok to stop a goal in extra time by using your hand...

Let's say tomorrow a German player tackles Messi so bad that he's injured until the winter. The German is sent off and then Germany wins by scoring a goal.

Fair?

I guess so!






/jarmo

Yes, because he was sent off. Would be unfair if the german tackles Messi and the refferee don't show him any card.

Ok. And I think it would be shitty to take out the best player of the opposing team.





/jarmo

[Ulises]

Jarmo...with all respect...do you know something about football?

Did you see HOW MANY TIMES AND HOW HARD Maradona was tackled when he was a player, he complained but never said it was unfair. You can complain about hard tackles but you never can say (well...if you know SOMETHING about football) that a hard tackle is unfair. It's part of the game, when you play football (did you?) there's  the risk you get tackled or something. It's the game.

WE MISSED THE POINT: All I'm trying to do is show you guys that Uruguay won FAIR because they was punished for their behaviour (and Ghana blew it). They took the risk, and things went good for them.

[jarmo]

Jarmo...with all respect...do you know something about football?

No absolutely nothing.

Please tell me more about this thing called "football".





/jarmo

[Ulises]

It's a long story

Just wanted to you to know that Uruguay won fair. Unfair would be if the refferee don't give penalty to Ghana because of that hand.

That's it. We missed the point and I think that kaa(whatever) saying "fuckface from south america" wasn't that cool.

[jarmo]

Because we define fair differently.





/jarmo

[Ulises]

What would be fair FOR YOU in that moment? I think refferee giving penalty was the only fair thing to do

[jarmo]

What would be fair FOR YOU in that moment? I think refferee giving penalty was the only fair thing to do

Yes, it was done by the rules.


But if he hadn't used his hand, the ball would've probably gone in.

Is it fair that a sure goal is substituted with another chance to score a goal?




It's like me stealing your wallet and then telling you that if you guess which hand I'm holding it in behind my back, you can have it back.

I'm stealing your wallet, but since I'm giving you a chance of getting it back, I'm being "fair"?






/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

A red card implies an automatic one match ban, that can be increased to more if it is proved that, according to FIFA?s ?Laws Of The Game?:

1. The player is guilty of ?serious foul play? (for instance, a very dangerous tackle).
2. There is violence.
3. A player spits at an opponent or other person.
4. A player denies the other side an opportunity to score by handling the ball.
5. A player denies the other side an opportunity to score by fouling a player.
6. A player uses offensive or abusive language or gestures.

That would be great.

[freedom78]

It was unjust, but by the rules.  Sometimes the rules create unjust outcomes.  It sucks for Ghana, but you see many of these moments and Ulises is right...the fact that this was carded and awarded a penalty is better than what happens in some circumstances.  I won't say it's "fair", but it's far closer to fair than if it wasn't called.  There have been plenty of potential winners and momentum changing goals that have been wrongly disallowed, et cetera.  This one seems all important because it occurred at a later stage and in the very closing seconds, but had Gyan hit that PK like he did in the tiebreaker (or had Ghana not had two really bad PKs in the tiebreaker) we wouldn't be talking about this.    

Anyway, looking forward to seeing Uruguay against Holland.  Forlan has been great to watch and, for those hating Suarez at the moment...well, he'll miss the semis and Uruguay will be worse without him.  If they manage to win anyway, then they'll largely redeem themselves.  If they get crushed then we can call it fitting and just.


I've got Brazil-Holland on my DVR, so no one tell me who won!    

[estebanf]

That was absolutely disgusting from Uraguay.

Ghana worked like hell, and finally in the last minute scored, only for an idiot to handball it off the line. If I had my way, I would have sent the handballer off and awarded the goal to Ghana, thus making Ghana win.

It was such a horrible act from the Uraguyan, it was impossible to stop the header, so he handballed it blatantly.

Ghana got robbed tonight, I just hope Holland knock the hell out of Uraguay, such a cheating team. I'm just mortified that Ghana scored with the header, only for the cheat to handball it, what a shame for Ghana. 

oh stop crying like a baby, this is football. You need to score more goals than your opponent to win, deserving them is not enough. And in the end Uruguay made it in penalties.

I would be worried if I'd see a brazilian, an italian, a german guy using the word ''cheat'' to describe a hand to save your ass in the last minute of quartefinals of a world cup, but its not the case here. Everyone who understands football, every single player in the world would do the same Suarez did. Even if my own country were eliminated due to an episode like this one, I would understand the hand. Its just logical. Its being out, against being ''almost'' out of the world cup. When you commit fouls, justice comes from the referee, not from the scoreboard. The referee dis his job perfectly: red card to suarez, penalty kick. Justice was 100% made. You dont have to DESERVE goals to win: you need to SCORE them.

Fouls are not 'cheats'. Last resource hands are not cheats. A goal in offside is not cheating. These are parts of the game, and the one responsible to make justice out of these situations is the referee.

You cheat when you take steroids to run more than your opponent instead of training fairly. You cheat when you pay a referee to be favoured. You cheat when you make a deal with FIFA or any other big sport organization. Some of you seem like you are watching football for the first time in your lifes ''ahhh, a hand, oh my god, that's cheating'', or you really dont feel/understand what football is about.

Congratulations Uruguay! Love to see you brothers in semifinals.

[jarmo]

You cheat when you take steroids to run more than your opponent instead of training fairly.

Like Maradona when he took Ephedrine? Or when he took Cocaine?





/jarmo

[estebanf]

Let's say tomorrow a German player tackles Messi so bad that he's injured until the winter. The German is sent off and then Germany wins by scoring a goal.
Fair?
I guess so!

Is there anything more the referee can do?

That can happen in the NBA (in actually happens several times per tournament), it happens in rugby, and in all collective sports.

I dont see what's unfair about that. I am argentina, and i watched Maradona being sistematically fouled in 4 consecutive world cups. He was injured, and everybody knows that a 100% healthy Maradona could have won Italy '90 on his own (he almost did, with his ankle with the size of a pumpkin and full of infiltrations. Cameroon players almost send Maradona and Caniggia to surgery, and we never said cameroon ''cheated''. Fouls are a constituent part of the game. That's why referees are there: the make justice. And justice was made in Ghana - Uruguay: a red card and a penalty.

And I really think Suarez gave Ghana a greater chance to win than Ghana created themselves in that play, because he could really have used his head instead of his hand.

This is football. You dont win with merits or with moral. You win by scoaring goals, and that's what uruguay did: scoaring more goals in the penalty shootout than Ghana  

[estebanf]

You cheat when you take steroids to run more than your opponent instead of training fairly.

Like Maradona when he took Ephedrine? Or when he took Cocaine?





/jarmo

Yes. Exactly. Taking drugs is cheating.

You dont really want to know what my opinion is. Its perfectly clear you want to mess with me, knowing I'm argentine, and argentine people love Maradona and gets hurt with that kind of arguments. I know what to say if I want to hurt a brazilian, a french, a mexican, but even though i'm a fanatic I really dont want to hurt anyone freely. In the end, this is just a game. So i will just say YES. That's cheating.

But its not only that you dont take any advantage by taking cocaine to play sports. In fact, cocaine worsens any sport player performance A LOT. Maradona was not trying to get any advantage: he was sick, he took those drugs in parties, not like Ben Johnson who took drugs ONCE to improve his performance. Cocaine almost sent Maradona to the graveyard.

ABout ephedrine... mhh, well...

[One.In.A.Million]

estebanf, you say the aim is to score more goals, right?. So why can't I punch the ball in the net, if I can't reach it with my head, it's about goals right?.  

What you fail to see is, it's called football for a reason.
You fail to see my point, it wasn't a foul, or a general handball. It was a handball that was ON THE LINE, costing Ghana the WINNING GOAL to the semis.

So estebanf, I guess you would be ok, if Germany had a corner against Argentina and a german striker, jumped up in the air and punched the ball in the net.  

Don't make me laugh, Uraguay did something that was unforgivable, a blatant cheat.

But I agree with Jarmo, I'm not going to argue against an Argentinian about handballs that cost matches.   That would be like history all over again.

[estebanf]

estebanf, you say the aim is to score more goals, right?. So why can't I punch the ball in the net, if I can't reach it with my head, it's about goals right?.  

Any player can try it. Players know that's EXTREMELY risky and that's why that kind of situations dont occur too much.

Nobody say you CANT do that. Do it at your won risk. Chances of having the goal annuled and having a yellow/red card are extremely high.

[Ulises]

It was unjust, but by the rules.  Sometimes the rules create unjust outcomes.  It sucks for Ghana, but you see many of these moments and Ulises is right...the fact that this was carded and awarded a penalty is better than what happens in some circumstances.  I won't say it's "fair", but it's far closer to fair than if it wasn't called.  There have been plenty of potential winners and momentum changing goals that have been wrongly disallowed, et cetera.  This one seems all important because it occurred at a later stage and in the very closing seconds, but had Gyan hit that PK like he did in the tiebreaker (or had Ghana not had two really bad PKs in the tiebreaker) we wouldn't be talking about this.    

Anyway, looking forward to seeing Uruguay against Holland.  Forlan has been great to watch and, for those hating Suarez at the moment...well, he'll miss the semis and Uruguay will be worse without him.  If they manage to win anyway, then they'll largely redeem themselves.  If they get crushed then we can call it fitting and just.


I've got Brazil-Holland on my DVR, so no one tell me who won!    

Well...It seems here's someone who understands football besides me and estebanf.