Formula 1 - 2010 season

[Genesis]

Time for the Turkish GP. It's good to see some car competitive with the Red Bulls in qualifying, with Hamilton splitting Webber and Vettel. Whatever happened to Alonso?
Got to love Turn 8 at Istanbul Park!

[jarmo]

Alonso has definitely done a great job in developing the Ferrari so far....

What mistakes?



/jarmo

[Genesis]

^ I wouldn't write him off just yet. He's still third in the championship, although with a couple of uncharacteristic mistakes in Australia, China, Monaco and now Turkey.
He'll claw his way from 12th to end in points.

[jarmo]

Of course not.

But for a team like Ferrari, who abandoned the 2009 season early on to focus on 2010, and a great car developer like Alonso, to still be this far behind at this stage of the season, it has to be disappointing.




/jarmo

[IzzyDutch]

Red Bull have some kind of special thing on their car, besides having the best aerodynamics, they're just one step ahead of everyone. Ferrari and McLaren follow, on the Turkey track Ferrari is more slow then on other types of tracks (which I don't mind to see cause I'm everything but a Ferrari fan). Alonso besides some mistakes has done a great job, beating his teammate almost every time and when he's starting from the back he's done some incredible races getting up to the back of Massa who's started in the front. Alonso's a great driver, one of the best there's no doubt about that.. wether you like him or not, anyone who thinks Alonso is not a great driver doesn't know what he's talking about.

Toyota did their 2010 F1 car shakedown earlier this month in Germany, it's confirmed they also have a special ride height system on their car, which Red Bull is also rumoured to have. Appearantly HRT is looking for a base/factory in Germany and their interested using the Toyota cars for next year.

http://www.anf1blog.com/2010/05/a-case-of-what-might-have-been-for-toyota-photos/

Jarmo you seem to still hold a bit of a grudge towards Ferrari / Alonso because they dumped Kimi. But considering the mistakes Alonso made and Ferrari's engines, besides that they haven't done so bad at all.. they're not far of the front.

[jarmo]

Jarmo you seem to still hold a bit of a grudge towards Ferrari / Alonso because they dumped Kimi. But considering the mistakes Alonso made and Ferrari's engines, besides that they haven't done so bad at all.. they're not far of the front.

What they did was shitty. Period.

The irony is that even though they abandoned Kimi and Felipe in 2009 to focus on the savior Fernando and Felipe for 2010, they're still not at the top as we speak.


When Honda/Brawn did that, they won six of the seven first races the following season.



/jarmo

[Genesis]

Toyota did their 2010 F1 car shakedown earlier this month in Germany, it's confirmed they also have a special ride height system on their car, which Red Bull is also rumoured to have.

I don't think they do. It's illegal and how would they have managed to hide it from the scrutineers? You can maybe get away with it once or twice, but if they had ride height control it would have been discovered by now. It's just the aerodynamics and the brilliance of Adrian Newey. It's a pity McLaren let him go. The Red Bulls don't even have their f-duct system in place yet...

Jarmo you seem to still hold a bit of a grudge towards Ferrari / Alonso because they dumped Kimi. But considering the mistakes Alonso made and Ferrari's engines, besides that they haven't done so bad at all.. they're not far of the front.

What they did was shitty. Period.

The irony is that even though they abandoned Kimi and Felipe in 2009 to focus on the savior Fernando and Felipe for 2010, they're still not at the top as we speak.


When Honda/Brawn did that, they won six of the seven first races the following season.

That's just how F1 is. Loyalty only goes hand in hand with winning. Speaking of Brawn, in spite of that having the best season in their history and winning the championship and constructors, Jenson decided to move to McLaren and they booted Rubens to make way for Rosberg. Ferrari would have been foolish not to sign Alonso. He's one of the best racers around. I honestly think that if it weren't for Massa's accident, he would have been the one asked to leave rather than Kimi.

[Genesis]

What a race! Vettel colliding with Webber. With nobody to really compete with the Red Bulls, the only competition they face is themselves, with the drivers taking away points from each other. This is the same thing that happened in 2007 with Hamilton and Alonso, allowing Kimi to slip through and win the championship. The next few days will be interesting - looking forward to hearing both drivers views. Bad Management from Red Bull.

Hamilton and Button almost doing a repeat of the Red Bull scenario. Button was well within his rights to go for first place, but Hamilton looked pissed that Button had disobeyed team orders to conserve fuel and save the tyres, very subdued celebrations from him. It just shows the difference in maturity with the drivers. Hamilton is so aggressive that his tyres and fuel were pretty much gone at the end of the race whereas cool Jenson knows how to look after his tyres. Button certainly had the pace at the end.

Interesting, Interesting race.

[jarmo]

Ferrari would have been foolish not to sign Alonso. He's one of the best racers around.

They could've signed him, for 2011.

But once they got Santander's money, they made the decision to pay Kimi not to race.

That's the shitty part.



Anybody who thinks 2009 was the drivers fault needs to think again.



Red Bull looked like amateurs today. McLaren showed that you can have team mates racing each other and get away with it.

This could be a costly mistake for Vettel. Unfortunately.




/jarmo

[IzzyDutch]

Toyota did their 2010 F1 car shakedown earlier this month in Germany, it's confirmed they also have a special ride height system on their car, which Red Bull is also rumoured to have.

I don't think they do. It's illegal and how would they have managed to hide it from the scrutineers? You can maybe get away with it once or twice, but if they had ride height control it would have been discovered by now. It's just the aerodynamics and the brilliance of Adrian Newey. It's a pity McLaren let him go. The Red Bulls don't even have their f-duct system in place yet...

Red Bull definetly has a unique system on the car besides excellent aerodynamics.. wether it's ride hight (in some kind of way or form, doesn't mean it is illegal) or another system they have something the rest doesn't. One other thing that sets them apart from the other cars is the way their exhaust exits the cars, at testing they actually placed stickers on the end of the sidepods but the other teams weren't fooled by that On the Red Bull both pipes are exitting as one, dead center. And Red Bull did have an F-duct on the car in free practice this weekend, but decided to take it off since they had the speed to do well without an F-duct (atleast in quali). They're gonna use it in Canada now and use the coming days to work on it a bit more. And Adrian Newey decided to quit, he wasn't let go at McLaren. He needed a new challenge, which was either design race (sail) boats or another team, the rest is history..

I like Vettel, but if one is to blame it's him and not Webber. On replays you see Vettel steering inside, but it shows on Vettel's onboard he's not actively or deliberatly steering to the inside, it's just the bumping of the car. But both should've given eachother more space. It's a racing incident but turned out well for Webber and not Vettel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bge1BmXER0&feature=player_embedded

[Genesis]

Ferrari would have been foolish not to sign Alonso. He's one of the best racers around.

They could've signed him, for 2011.

But once they got Santander's money, they made the decision to pay Kimi not to race.

That's the shitty part.

Like I said, they just want results using the quickest way possible, whatever that may be. They have no need to be so considerate. If there is a driver who can outclass Alonso consistently, they'll dump him and sign the new guy if possible.

Ferrari in 7th and 8th look like they've stalled their development to a trickle. So it won't be the drivers making the difference any more.

Toyota did their 2010 F1 car shakedown earlier this month in Germany, it's confirmed they also have a special ride height system on their car, which Red Bull is also rumoured to have.

I don't think they do. It's illegal and how would they have managed to hide it from the scrutineers? You can maybe get away with it once or twice, but if they had ride height control it would have been discovered by now. It's just the aerodynamics and the brilliance of Adrian Newey. It's a pity McLaren let him go. The Red Bulls don't even have their f-duct system in place yet...

Red Bull definetly has a unique system on the car besides excellent aerodynamics.. wether it's ride hight (in some kind of way or form, doesn't mean it is illegal) or another system they have something the rest doesn't. One other thing that sets them apart from the other cars is the way their exhaust exits the cars, at testing they actually placed stickers on the end of the sidepods but the other teams weren't fooled by that On the Red Bull both pipes are exitting as one, dead center

Yes, it's a combination of systems that gives them the pace (Ferrari are copying their exhaust system for Canada I think), but whatever it is the rest of the pack can't figure it out.

I like Vettel, but if one is to blame it's him and not Webber. On replays you see Vettel steering inside, but it shows on Vettel's onboard he's not actively or deliberatly steering to the inside, it's just the bumping of the car. But both should've given eachother more space. It's a racing incident but turned out well for Webber and not Vettel.

It's clear from the clip that Vettel's car slides into Webber's, but like you said surprisingly from the on board, he looks like he's going in a straight line. Definitely a 'racing incident', but there was no need for them to be so aggressive with each other. I think Webber should have given him the place, simply because Vettel was much quicker than him up to that point.

[jarmo]

Vettel was quicker because Webber was saving fuel....

It was his chance to overtake.




/jarmo

[IzzyDutch]

Webber was also driving with an update (rear wing) that Vettel didn't have this race. So he wanted to prove he was still faster and could overtake Webber. They way I see it now, Vettel was going slightly to the inside, Mark stayed straight but he gave a little room and made sure Vettel stayed on the dirty side. I think all in all it was a race incident.

This weekend I'd say Vettel was still faster then Mark, just in quali Vettel had a defect rollbar which was replaced for the race, but it's just a waste Vettel can't be consistent enough

[Genesis]

Internal problems at McLaren and Red Bull are becoming more clear. Red Bull clearly favour Vettel (Him hugging everyone at the pit wall was amusing) while now it seems the reason Button was faster than Hamilton was because he was told to turn down his engine - three laps later than Hamilton. Did McLaren want Button to win since he has two wins already? Hamilton was also told to slow down and not to race Button in China. No wonder he was so subdued after the race, must have been wondering if his team was conspiring against him.

It's the same case with RB. Webber was told to cruise while Vettel was on full power (having saved fuel early in the race). Did RB want Vettel to win?

As the competition gets more fierce, the cracks will show. So far, Hamilton has been gracious about the whole thing (probably keeping in mind the Alonso incident), but I wonder for how long...

[IzzyDutch]

Check out the Mike Conway Indy 500 crash of yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OTb9ynww9Q

[jarmo]

Genesis, you forgot: Does Mercedes want Schumacher to win instead of Rosberg? Considering they modified the car and it now suits Schumacher better. But it's not able to keep up with the Red Bulls and McLarens anymore.






/jarmo

[Genesis]

Genesis, you forgot: Does Mercedes want Schumacher to win instead of Rosberg? Considering they modified the car and it now suits Schumacher better. But it's not able to keep up with the Red Bulls and McLarens anymore.

Yes, good point. I think this is going to be a problem in any team with two top drivers. Last year there was no problem at McLaren when Heikki partnered Hamilton because he wasn't expected to do as well and unfortunately that's exactly what he did. Last year there was no problem at Red Bull either because Webber wasn't expected to perform well and RB was all Vettel's. There were problems at Brawn last year as well. However, now that Webber is winning races and Button is performing better than Hamilton, things are going awry.

I guess when drivers perform well contrary to expectations, there's a lot of tension in the team. Whom do you favour for the title?

[Genesis]

Kimi Unlikely To Return With Red Bull

Horner dismissed talk of 2007 world champion Kimi Raikkonen returning to F1 with Red Bull next year.

The Finn quit F1 over the winter for the world rally championship, where he drives a Red Bull-sponsored Citroen.

Horner said: "Kimi has committed himself to rallying and seems to be enjoying that environment.

"So there's never really been any discussion? We've been happy with the job Mark's been doing so why would you change?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8709689.stm

[Genesis]

No one watching F1 these days? A rather boring Valencia race except for Webber's crash. I'm glad he's okay.
Although as one report title put it: "Red Bull Gives Webber Wings!"

[jarmo]

Hearing Alonso basically cry over the radio was priceless...

They had to tell him to focus on his race and not worry about what penalties others might get.





/jarmo