GNR sued for plagiarism

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

My guess is that the most logical thing is that some ball was dropped with obtaining sampling permission, either by the band (specifically Chris Pitman and/or Dizzy Reed), or more likely management and/or the legal team for the band and/or the label.

Ali

that's my guess as well.

either that, or these guys are being assholes and playing games with gnr and the label by giving assurances in the past and looking for a loophole now. similar to the Verge and the troubles they ran into with bittersweet symphony.

either way, i'm guessing (and hoping) this is just a very minor issue that can be settled quickly, or ultimately won by gnr in court.

Well, the Verve were stupid for crediting Jagger/Richards in the first place.  The Stones jumped in and made some big money.  Bittersweet Symphony was the biggest Rolling Stones hit since Start Me Up!

Finally more people are seeing that Pitman is the most likely band member to have FUCKED UP royally.  I mentioned this and I got my post deleted.

pitman fucked up royally means ulrich get no royalty 

I wonder what Lars thinks of all this...

[peter7411226]

My guess is that the most logical thing is that some ball was dropped with obtaining sampling permission, either by the band (specifically Chris Pitman and/or Dizzy Reed), or more likely management and/or the legal team for the band and/or the label.

Ali

that's my guess as well.

either that, or these guys are being assholes and playing games with gnr and the label by giving assurances in the past and looking for a loophole now. similar to the Verge and the troubles they ran into with bittersweet symphony.

either way, i'm guessing (and hoping) this is just a very minor issue that can be settled quickly, or ultimately won by gnr in court.

Well, the Verve were stupid for crediting Jagger/Richards in the first place.  The Stones jumped in and made some big money.  Bittersweet Symphony was the biggest Rolling Stones hit since Start Me Up!

Finally more people are seeing that Pitman is the most likely band member to have FUCKED UP royally.  I mentioned this and I got my post deleted.

They werent stupid they were legally obligated to do so. If not they wouldve got sued. They clearly sampled the string music in the background. They shouldve known better.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Its funny... Dizzy & Pitman would most likely at fault here(not saying they are), and neither one is named here..

[jarmo]

Guns n? Roses ?Vigorously Contest? Claims ?Chinese Democracy? Stole a Sample

Guns n? Roses manager Irving Azoff has formally responded to claims the band illegally borrowed music from two songs by German electro artist Ulrich Schnauss on Chinese Democracy?s ?Riad N? the Bedouins.? As Rolling Stone reported yesterday, the Independiente and Domino labels announced they were suing the band for $1 million in damages, alleging the ambient noise at the top of the Gn?R track was created by Ulrich and used without permission. Today, Azoff said the band ?vigorously contests these claims and intends to respond accordingly.? He added the band and production team?s legal reps will be responding soon, as well. His full statement follows:

    ?The band believed when the record came out and still believes that there are no unauthorized samples on the track. The snippets of ?ambient noise? in question were provided by a member of the album?s production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately. Artists these days can?t read the minds of those they collaborate with and therefore are unfortunately vulnerable to claims like this one. While the band resents the implication that they would ever use another artist?s work improperly and are assessing possible counterclaims, they are confident this situation will be satisfactorily resolved.?

The most recent high-profile accusation of musical plagiarism ? the case of Joe Satriani vs. Coldplay over their hit ?Viva la Vida?  recently ended with a dismissal and, presumably, an out-of-court settlement.

http://www.rollingstone.com/





/jarmo

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

My guess is that the most logical thing is that some ball was dropped with obtaining sampling permission, either by the band (specifically Chris Pitman and/or Dizzy Reed), or more likely management and/or the legal team for the band and/or the label.

Ali

that's my guess as well.

either that, or these guys are being assholes and playing games with gnr and the label by giving assurances in the past and looking for a loophole now. similar to the Verge and the troubles they ran into with bittersweet symphony.

either way, i'm guessing (and hoping) this is just a very minor issue that can be settled quickly, or ultimately won by gnr in court.

Well, the Verve were stupid for crediting Jagger/Richards in the first place.  The Stones jumped in and made some big money.  Bittersweet Symphony was the biggest Rolling Stones hit since Start Me Up!

Finally more people are seeing that Pitman is the most likely band member to have FUCKED UP royally.  I mentioned this and I got my post deleted.

They werent stupid they were legally obligated to do so. If not they wouldve got sued. They clearly sampled the string music in the background. They shouldve known better.

Credit should have gone to Andrew Oldham.

The Verve wrote those lyrics.  The Stones get 100% of the royalties, The Verve get nothing.

[PJ]

Guns n? Roses ?Vigorously Contest? Claims ?Chinese Democracy? Stole a Sample

Guns n? Roses manager Irving Azoff has formally responded to claims the band illegally borrowed music from two songs by German electro artist Ulrich Schnauss on Chinese Democracy?s ?Riad N? the Bedouins.? As Rolling Stone reported yesterday, the Independiente and Domino labels announced they were suing the band for $1 million in damages, alleging the ambient noise at the top of the Gn?R track was created by Ulrich and used without permission. Today, Azoff said the band ?vigorously contests these claims and intends to respond accordingly.? He added the band and production team?s legal reps will be responding soon, as well. His full statement follows:

    ?The band believed when the record came out and still believes that there are no unauthorized samples on the track. The snippets of ?ambient noise? in question were provided by a member of the album?s production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately. Artists these days can?t read the minds of those they collaborate with and therefore are unfortunately vulnerable to claims like this one. While the band resents the implication that they would ever use another artist?s work improperly and are assessing possible counterclaims, they are confident this situation will be satisfactorily resolved.?

The most recent high-profile accusation of musical plagiarism ? the case of Joe Satriani vs. Coldplay over their hit ?Viva la Vida?  recently ended with a dismissal and, presumably, an out-of-court settlement.

http://www.rollingstone.com/





/jarmo

voila!
a guy fuckep up sampling without permission

[sandman]

My guess is that the most logical thing is that some ball was dropped with obtaining sampling permission, either by the band (specifically Chris Pitman and/or Dizzy Reed), or more likely management and/or the legal team for the band and/or the label.

Ali

that's my guess as well.

either that, or these guys are being assholes and playing games with gnr and the label by giving assurances in the past and looking for a loophole now. similar to the Verge and the troubles they ran into with bittersweet symphony.

either way, i'm guessing (and hoping) this is just a very minor issue that can be settled quickly, or ultimately won by gnr in court.

Well, the Verve were stupid for crediting Jagger/Richards in the first place.  The Stones jumped in and made some big money.  Bittersweet Symphony was the biggest Rolling Stones hit since Start Me Up!

Finally more people are seeing that Pitman is the most likely band member to have FUCKED UP royally.  I mentioned this and I got my post deleted.

They werent stupid they were legally obligated to do so. If not they wouldve got sued. They clearly sampled the string music in the background. They shouldve known better.

Credit should have gone to Andrew Oldham.

The Verve wrote those lyrics.  The Stones get 100% of the royalties, The Verve get nothing.

the stones don't get shit. the company who owns the rights to the song sampled get the rights.

as for GnR, it doesn't appear anyone in the band F'd up. this seems like a bunch of bullshit. some loser trying for a get rich quick lawsuit.

[FunkyMonkey]

Guns n? Roses ?Vigorously Contest? Claims ?Chinese Democracy? Stole a Sample

    ?The band believed when the record came out and still believes that there are no unauthorized samples on the track. The snippets of ?ambient noise? in question were provided by a member of the album?s production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately. Artists these days can?t read the minds of those they collaborate with and therefore are unfortunately vulnerable to claims like this one. While the band resents the implication that they would ever use another artist?s work improperly and are assessing possible counterclaims, they are confident this situation will be satisfactorily resolved.?

Thanks, nice to get a response.  Hopefully this will not drag on.

[Bodhi]

this is the dumbest fucking lawsuit I have ever heard of..GN'R are being sued for "ambient noise" Are you serious?  They are being sued for the use of a random sound effect that has NOTHING at all to do with the rest of the song...this is laughable.

[Bodhi]

Anyone claiming they hear no similarity really needs to have their hearing checked. I love me some GNR and all but I can also call a spade a spade.

understood, but what you heard is not music.  It is a random tone.  It is not like they lifted a guitar riff or a drum beat or you know anything else that an actual MUSICIAN would write.  That is like AC/DC suing ever band on earth for using a G chord.  this is fucking stupid.

[jarmo]

Anyone claiming they hear no similarity really needs to have their hearing checked. I love me some GNR and all but I can also call a spade a spade.

understood, but what you heard is not music.  It is a random tone.  It is not like they lifted a guitar riff or a drum beat or you know anything else that an actual MUSICIAN would write. 

I have to agree with that.

Many make it sound like GN'R just ripped off major parts of the song, and then you read and realize it's some ambient sounds in the intro!

Not exactly the part you sing along to at concerts.....



/jarmo

[HBK]

GUNS N' ROSES manager Irving Azoff has released a statement in response to claims the band illegally borrowed music from two songs by a German musician on its last album, "Chinese Democracy".

British label Independiente and the U.S. arm of Domino Recording Company, who own the licensing rights to songs by German electronic musician Ulrich Schnauss, allege that singer Axl Rose and GUNS N' ROSES band members and album producers copied portions of two of Schnauss' songs ? "Wherever You Are" and "A Strangely Isolated Place" (hear audio below) ? for a song used on the band's last GN'R album called "Riad N' the Bedouins".

Azoff's full statement reads as follows:

"The band believed when the record came out and still believes that there are no unauthorized samples on the track. The snippets of 'ambient noise' in question were provided by a member of the album's production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately. Artists these days can't read the minds of those they collaborate with and therefore are unfortunately vulnerable to claims like this one. While the band resents the implication that they would ever use another artist's work improperly and are assessing possible counterclaims, they are confident this situation will be satisfactorily resolved."

The lawsuit, filed on Friday but made available on Monday, seeks $1 million in damages.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=128260

[loretian]

I'm not convinced these short samples were so clearly ripped off, either.  Both are synthesizer effects with some delay.  The first one even sounds like the delay is at a slightly different rate.  In any case, it'd be a matter of just start with approximately the same synth sound, and adding delay (which is incredibly common for "ambient sounds") and you have these sounds.   I could probably dig up a number of effects I've done on my own songs that sound roughly the same.  It's not like these are incredibly difficult to recreate sound effects.

Anyway, given how small of a role they play in the song, and how stupidly easy effects like this are to create, why would anyone even bother ripping them off?  It's not like Chris Pitman (or whomever) doesn't have access to plenty of synthesizers and delay effect machines.    The real artistry here is how all the sounds were mixed together, not the individual sounds.  It just doesn't make sense to steal something you could create in five minutes of work on your own.

[PJ]

dude.. irving azoff is accepting that they sampled the song

The snippets of 'ambient noise' in question were provided by a member of the album's production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately

the whole: "they just sound exactly the same but maybe is coincidence thing" is over

[Gunnerfan23]

...and then we wonder why the band takes so long to do anything!


G'N'R is so huge man, they've gotta have every single angle covered before anything can happen just because they're GNR and because no matter what, they've just been like that since day 1.

Nothing's ever fine and dandy in a band's world to say the least...now multiply that by infinity and you've got the band problems that Guns have had/are having.

Failed tour announcements, failed delivery on album release dates, failed tab books...these things all lack any relevance when you've got the album in your hand and are listen to what the band wanted you to wait for...and tell me if that's not worth every second of it.

Now minus the bitching, and you'll see, that had everyone enjoyed their lives instead of shagging the band you love up the ass for attempting to deliver on promises we've demanded..and that album is WAY beyond anything out there.

I really hope this DJ dude doesn't think a pitch shifting sample of someone saying "how are you" in Cantonese or Mandarin (my dialects aren't too great) expects anything more than GNR pulling out giant imaginary machine guns to blow him out the water for being stupid enough to think that Guns would actually benefit from ripping him off after working 14 years to put out a masterpiece such as Chinese Democracy.

If anything, this idiot should pay them for attempting to ride Guns' name to get himself his 2 seconds of fame.

It's understandable if fucking Joe Satriani sues Coldplay, cos those dudes haven't done anything original in their entire career other than be a shitty version of U2...but this is GNR...where the fuck in the Jungle would you have to be to NOT know who they are?! and then ask yourself why they would release something that was plagiarized.




Peace!!!

[jellyhead]

If GNR have sampled this guys copyrighted music without permission they are breaking the law and the guy who made the recordings should be compensated, either finaincially and/or given a credit on future presses of CD.

Its not about who's music sucks or who the bigger artist is etc.  Thats why music is copyrighted, too stop things like this happening.  Just because its happening to our fave band doesn't make an exception to the law.

[Voodoochild]

dude.. irving azoff is accepting that they sampled the song

The snippets of 'ambient noise' in question were provided by a member of the album's production team who has assured us that these few seconds of sound were obtained legitimately

He also said:

"The band believed when the record came out and still believes that there are no unauthorized samples]/b] on the track"

I once worked as a video editor. We had plenty of song and video librarys to use back then - it was copyrighted, but we payed to use it. It's like stock photos... Maybe that's what happened, they both used the same snippets of sounds (the vocally intro and the keyboard chord progression).

Still, in order to claim plagiarism, it should have to follow a pattern, I guess. I mean, like three or more bars sounding the same...

[D]

well the intro does sort of sound like a voice saying riad riad riad riad riad

so maybe a producer thought it sounded cool and didn't mention it was lifted so he could look like good or something.


It is very obvious  Axl had no idea.

[ppbebe]

If GNR have sampled this guys copyrighted music without permission they are breaking the law and the guy who made the recordings should be compensated, either finaincially and/or given a credit on future presses of CD.

Its not about who's music sucks or who the bigger artist is etc.  Thats why music is copyrighted, too stop things like this happening.  Just because its happening to our fave band doesn't make an exception to the law.

but 1 mil for some secs of ambient noise in an intro?

it's clear that the band didn't/don't know it's copyrighted.

if it was, i think they could have contacted the band earlier rather than making the news.  
it's not like it was just released.

[Spirit]

If GNR have sampled this guys copyrighted music without permission they are breaking the law and the guy who made the recordings should be compensated, either finaincially and/or given a credit on future presses of CD.

Its not about who's music sucks or who the bigger artist is etc.  Thats why music is copyrighted, too stop things like this happening.  Just because its happening to our fave band doesn't make an exception to the law.

but 1 mil for some secs of ambient noise in an intro?

it's clear that the band didn't/don't know it's copyrighted.

if it was, i think they could have contacted the band earlier rather than making the news.  
it's not like it was just released.

Yeah, $1 million for damages is outrageous.