GNR sued for plagiarism

[Ali]

Pt666, you are missing the point. The songs soundin the same isn't enough. It has to be proven that the German song came out before any incarnation of that intro for "Riad" existed. That will not be easy.

Ali

[D]

true

some producer from Canada wrote with Beyonce and Kelly Clarkson and gave them both the exact same backing track..........

so an engineer or producer or someone in the band could've brought this to Axl

Im sure Axl had nothing to do with it.

[Rockin' Rose]

sounds almost the same as the intro actually:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm39G26PGAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn604M1IfDk
add on some sounds and it's the intro to riad

I remember some months or years ago where there were som clip in maybe the youtube thread and people thought they heard the riad intro in it, it was probably from this guy..

Remember that too, it was a episode of Top Gear

[jacdaniel]

i thought you needed to have something officially released before you could sue?? 
In other words, if that dude has an album out already with that song, then Guns are liable.

Same thing happened to VR with dirty little thing.  Just a chancer looking for a personal pay day.

[Limulus]

Pt666, you are missing the point. The songs soundin the same isn't enough. It has to be proven that the German song came out before any incarnation of that intro for "Riad" existed. That will not be easy.

Ali

thats if the law is up for this and doesnt judge the release date superior in this case. given the release date its more like GN'R would have to prove the sample has been created way before.
and how would this work anyway? any intro creator pluggin in external harddiscs in court trying to verify dates and sounds?  

anyway the german dude has a point, no matter the money being asked for, let alone the intro being needed on a guns album.
let's hope it can be settled some fast and is not one of this "plans changed against our wishes"-delay-things again.

[Ali]

Pt666, you are missing the point. The songs soundin the same isn't enough. It has to be proven that the German song came out before any incarnation of that intro for "Riad" existed. That will not be easy.

Ali

thats if the law is up for this and doesnt judge the release date superior in this case. given the release date its more like GN'R would have to prove the sample has been created way before.
and how would this work anyway? any intro creator pluggin in external harddiscs in court trying to verify dates and sounds?  

anyway the german dude has a point, no matter the money being asked for, let alone the intro being needed on a guns album.
let's hope it can be settled some fast and is not one of this "plans changed against our wishes"-delay-things again.

Why would GN'R have to make an offer of proof?  They are not the ones making a claim of fraud.  It is up to the complainant to substantiate his claim.

Ali

[Limulus]

because they have to?
the release dates are all against nuGuns.....and even fans here are talking about the intro hasnt been on any previous 11/2008 version we've heard. thats the main attack most likely, to these facts add some proofs by the german dude when he exactly did created those intros (IF he did himself though) and that he was not asked by Guns management for using it/being credited/being paid and you have the case. then it has to be checked by Axl's lawyers and they would have to prove it being false or find another way out, maybe even to avoid going to court risking lots of money. further the pretty high 1.000.000$ could have set-up because of this, like the german dude's lawyers smell the right could very well be on his side.

[Voodoochild]

Did Vanilla Ice paid something to Queen for ripping off Under Pressure?

[Limulus]

"Ice later paid Mercury and Bowie, who have since been given songwriting credit for the sample."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_Pressure

[cfcsfc]

they sound exactly the same
and i doubt that this guy in 2003 had a unknown demo of riad to sample in two different songs... or he had the same inspiration and played the same exact thing that was recorded on riad..
either way is almost illogical...

gnr sampled the song and now the guy's record company is trying to milk the situation and get some press.. they are assholes

i just find kinda annyonning that some people here try to justify everything.. is kinda lame you know?
im pro axl and everything, but you really have to see that sometimes is like reading a bunch of sheeps

If GnR did sample it and didn't give credit for it (or get permission), then how are they assholes? I reckon GnR would be in the wrong as they effectively stole it and didn't acknowledge the person who actually wrote it- claiming it as their own work and not the original artists.
I don't like that they are suing, but I don't think they're milking the situation- they're perfectly within their right to get proper recognition for their work, and if GnR did use it without permission, then they should be financially compensated for their work being on the album.

[Loaded NightraiN]

i thought you needed to have something officially released before you could sue?? 
In other words, if that dude has an album out already with that song, then Guns are liable.

So you're saying that in 2003 I could have recorded and released Street of Dreams & Madagascar, and Sued Axl when he officially released them?

I dont think it works quite that way

[jarmo]

i thought you needed to have something officially released before you could sue?? 
In other words, if that dude has an album out already with that song, then Guns are liable.

So you're saying that in 2003 I could have recorded and released Street of Dreams & Madagascar, and Sued Axl when he officially released them?

I dont think it works quite that way

Umm, no? I think he assumes the songs need to be released in order to be able to sue for plagiarism.

I don't know about that, but I'm assuming it'd be difficult to prove you wrote a song years ago if there's no proof of when it was created....



/jarmo

[Limulus]

yeah, like many of us did write "Don't Cry"....but we aint suing the boys   

[erose]

yeah, like many of us did wrote "Don't Cry"....but we aint suing the boys   

Speaking of Don't Cry.... Wasn't GN'R sued for plagiarism by some mexican dude who claimed he wrote the main guitar riff for Don't Cry 15 years ago?

[Limulus]

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=271

[JuicySwoos]

I wonder if intent would also have to be proved.   If you listen to techno, it is not unreasonable to think a pulsating synth could be duplicated identically without intent to copy/steal.  It is not like this is a unique piece of music like the intro to SCOM, etc.

[Loaded NightraiN]

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=271

How did that ever turn out anyway?

[MeanBone]

i thought you needed to have something officially released before you could sue?? 
In other words, if that dude has an album out already with that song, then Guns are liable.

So you're saying that in 2003 I could have recorded and released Street of Dreams & Madagascar, and Sued Axl when he officially released them?

I dont think it works quite that way

Umm, no? I think he assumes the songs need to be released in order to be able to sue for plagiarism.

I don't know about that, but I'm assuming it'd be difficult to prove you wrote a song years ago if there's no proof of when it was created....



/jarmo

Jarmo, once a song is created, even the early sketch of what we might think a song is, artists declare the work to their Author's Right's Association in order to protect them from things like this. so a proof of when the song was created must exist, even though it was only released years later. You don't declare your songs once you're ready to release them, otherwise they would be up for grabs for anyone who gets a chance to listen to them beforehand.

[jarmo]

Yes, and that's what I meant with having no proof of when it was created.

If your song has been registered and/or released years ago, that's proof of its existence/creation.


I didn't say it has to be released, that was somebody else, because I'm not an expert.




/jarmo

[ppbebe]

i asked a lawyer about it once. you gotta copyright it.
alternatively, you send your work to yourself by registered mail and never open it.