GNR sued for plagiarism

[Ali]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

[GUNNER]

I hope GN'R sue that guy for plagiarism 

[Spirit]

The publicity Schnauss gets now should boost his record sales. Probably part of the plan going through with this "publicity stunt"..

It's a fucking synthesizer soundbite, seems like a far fetched lawsuit. His name will get printed all over the place now...

[Mr. Redman]

How far back does "Riad N' the Bedouins" date?

Because I show here that "A Strangely Isolated Place" was released in 2003?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Strangely_Isolated_Place

And "Wherever You Are" in 2006?

http://www.discogs.com/Ulrich-Schnauss-Passing-By/release/713466

1998 - 2001.

Actually 2000 - it was performed before the New Years Eve.

But was written before then

Didn't u read what has been said though? The Live version of Riad didn't have the intro

That doesn't mean a thing, as Ali said, the demo we heard didn't have it, doesn't mean that the live intro would have to have it either. We all know that there is so many other demos that have had varations that've surfaced, Rhiad is no exception.

[DeN]

The publicity Schnauss gets now should boost his record sales. Probably part of the plan going through with this "publicity stunt"..

It's a fucking synthesizer soundbite, seems like a far fetched lawsuit. His name will get printed all over the place now...

in the other hand, it's kind of a publicity for Guns N'Roses too.
good timing, there's a tour coming soon...

[AxlsMainMan]

The publicity Schnauss gets now should boost his record sales. Probably part of the plan going through with this "publicity stunt"..

It's a fucking synthesizer soundbite, seems like a far fetched lawsuit. His name will get printed all over the place now...

in the other hand, it's kind of a publicity for Guns N'Roses too.
good timing, there's a tour coming soon...

Exactly, CD will probably sell a few extra copies this week.

[Spirit]

Maybe we'll get some longed-for, old-school Axl rants during this tour 

(thanks Schnauss, I guess)

[PJ]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

[Spirit]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

There's no doubt it's the same sound, but how do you know how many shapes and forms of Riad GN'R has in the vault?

If GN'R has this version from way back, it's simply word against word.. leading nowhere.

Anyway, there's no way this thing is worth $1 million.

[Classic Case]

Who plays the intro? who plays those parts? is it Pittman? maybe he got the answer to this, or whoever plays it.

[gabble]

Actually 2000 - it was performed before the New Years Eve.

Not to nitpick about something trivial, but the HOB show started around 3:30am January 1st, 2001 and let out somewhere around 5:30-6am. 

[Christian]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

As much as i think like: "yeah, Riads intro came after", we can't say 100% for sure just because you didn't hear that intro from a 2004 (?) demo or 2001/2002 live shows.

Just to clarify my point of view: IRS (2008 CD's version) is a mix of 1999 demo and the 2004 demo (just listen to the guitar solos!), so that intro could be with GN'R for a long time, maybe originally being used in other working songs, etc.

[estebanf]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

please, can you explain in what form it is ''clear'' that GNR stole those sfx from this guy?

I'm not saying its not plagiarism. I really dont know. All I want to know is an explanation on why ''it is clear'' that GNR sampled from this guy, like you said above. Any proof?

[Ali]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

The first demo WE HEARD.  Unless you can prove exact dates for when the intro was first written, NOT performed live, you cannot make a blanket statement like "they clearly sampled from this guy".

Ali

[PJ]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/



/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

There's no doubt it's the same sound, but how do you know how many shapes and forms of Riad GN'R has in the vault?

If GN'R has this version from way back, it's simply word against word.. leading nowhere.

Anyway, there's no way this thing is worth $1 million.

they sound exactly the same
and i doubt that this guy in 2003 had a unknown demo of riad to sample in two different songs... or he had the same inspiration and played the same exact thing that was recorded on riad..
either way is almost illogical...

gnr sampled the song and now the guy's record company is trying to milk the situation and get some press.. they are assholes

i just find kinda annyonning that some people here try to justify everything.. is kinda lame you know?
im pro axl and everything, but you really have to see that sometimes is like reading a bunch of sheeps

[PJ]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

http://www.rollingstone.com/


/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

The first demo WE HEARD.  Unless you can prove exact dates for when the intro was first written, NOT performed live, you cannot make a blanket statement like "they clearly sampled from this guy".

Ali

dude go to youtube and search for the songs
they sond exactly the same!

[Spirit]

We?re not legal experts, but unless there is some sort of documentation proving that Rose and company stole the tracks ? like proof they tried to clear the sample and failed ? it?s hard to imagine the million dollar fee would be awarded, as it seems like countless artists such as Boards of Canada, M83 and Fennesz could have easily filed a similar suit. Plus, half the stuff on Chinese Democracy has existed for the better part of the last decade, while the two Schnauss songs came out in 2001 and 2003, so it?d be practically impossible to determine who predated who. Rolling Stone reached out to Gn?R for comment, but hadn?t heard back at press time.

/jarmo

I agree that the case will be hard to prove because that will involve proving who predated who. That's a good point from RS.

Ali

riad was never played live with that samples, event the first demo didnt have them..
they clearly sampled form this guy..

There's no doubt it's the same sound, but how do you know how many shapes and forms of Riad GN'R has in the vault?

If GN'R has this version from way back, it's simply word against word.. leading nowhere.

Anyway, there's no way this thing is worth $1 million.

they sound exactly the same
and i doubt that this guy in 2003 had a unknown demo of riad to sample in two different songs... or he had the same inspiration and played the same exact thing that was recorded on riad..
either way is almost illogical...

gnr sampled the song and now the guy's record company is trying to milk the situation and get some press.. they are assholes

i just find kinda annyonning that some people here try to justify everything.. is kinda lame you know?
im pro axl and everything, but you really have to see that sometimes is like reading a bunch of sheeps

Not trying to justify anything.. I'm just not drawing final conclusions, like you are.

Do you have any inside info to this case? If not, wait and see how things are panning out once all facts are on the table.

[PJ]

it wasnt directed at you
just generally..
it is just logics, you dont need to have inside info to join the dots

[D]

As tight as CD was wrapped, no way some guy from Germany could've heard unfinished studio masters. thats all Im saying which leads me to believe that Bucket or pitman brought this in

[Spirit]

As tight as CD was wrapped, no way some guy from Germany could've heard unfinished studio masters. thats all Im saying which leads me to believe that Bucket or pitman brought this in

I'm not saying one or the other is right yet. But I think it's a valid point that countless people have worked on Chinese Democracy over the years, and as you say, maybe Bucket or Pitman had the sample. Or maybe some sound engineer who had worked with Bucket in the past, also crossing paths with this German dude (just one random example).

The intro is, as I have stated before, the exact same sound, but we're not really talking about some melodic masterpiece here.. It's an intro, nothing more. Being what it is, people on both sides here might not have thought too much about using this piece of sound. Especially not expecting lawsuits for using it.