Asian tour - December 2009

[jarmo]

The tours that happened since 2002 WERE announced by the band, not just by promoters. There has only ever been one GNR tour announced by promoters and not the band, and that was the European tour in 2002, which was entirely cancelled - unless you count the Indian dates for 2009, which were also announced by promoters and not the band, and also cancelled. Why should I not call you ill-informed? You are.

The European shows of 2006 were announced by local promoters months in advance. GN'R made a comment about them in a press release about the May New York dates. So the shows had been on sale and some had been sold out for months before GN'R made the announcement.

The 2007 Japanese shows were first announced by the promoter. Later GN'R commented on it.


You keep going on and on about there not being an announcement. But the ill-informed can see a pattern in the past. The shows are announced by promoters and later GN'R has commented on them.

Nowhere have I claimed it's not possible to be the case this time as well.

You on the other hand are going on and on about these shows being like the 2002 European tour.

You've embarrassed yourself. See how quickly you can remove these posts now. 

Oh I have, have I? Poor me.  



I wish I was the guy still whining about shows seven years ago and using them as examples of how things will be in the future!

Now that's not embarrassing at all!



I can't believe I was embarrassed like this on an online message board. Oh my God! This is so horrible!!!!! 


By the way: From an ill-informed embarrassed fan to one that knows it all. There was no canceled 2002 European tour. It was in 2001. First summer, then postponed until winter and then cancelled.




/jarmo

[TomFriend]

The tours that happened since 2002 WERE announced by the band, not just by promoters. There has only ever been one GNR tour announced by promoters and not the band, and that was the European tour in 2002, which was entirely cancelled - unless you count the Indian dates for 2009, which were also announced by promoters and not the band, and also cancelled. Why should I not call you ill-informed? You are.

The European shows of 2006 were announced by local promoters months in advance. GN'R made a comment about them in a press release about the May New York dates. So the shows had been on sale and some had been sold out for months before GN'R made the announcement.

The 2007 Japanese shows were first announced by the promoter. Later GN'R commented on it.


You keep going on and on about there not being an announcement. But the ill-informed can see a pattern in the past. The shows are announced by promoters and later GN'R has commented on them.

Nowhere have I claimed it's not possible to be the case this time as well.

You on the other hand are going on and on about these shows being like the 2002 European tour.

You've embarrassed yourself. See how quickly you can remove these posts now. 

Oh I have, have I? Poor me.  



I wish I was the guy still whining about shows seven years ago and using them as examples of how things will be in the future!

Now that's not embarrassing at all!




/jarmo

"Whining" is your favorite word for anyone who makes a point better than you do, isn't it? Did I complain that GNR didn't do those 2001 shows? Did I say 'Fuck Axl, he was a tool for not showing up?' or did I say GNR never showed up because GNR never confirmed the shows?

Would you like to point out to me which part of that statement isn't fact, and why fans who are considering spending a fortune on airfare to Japan shouldn't take that under consideration, when thinking about spending 1000s of $ going to unconfirmed (according to your own thread subject) shows?

I mean, if they have money to burn, sure. But are you willing to personally guarantee that Axl has at least agreed to these shows? If not, then I think you could at least concede that fans should approach with caution, which is exactly what I've been trying to get across all along.

[corrected: cancelled tour was 2001, not 2002 - source, Jarmo]

[jarmo]

By the way: From an ill-informed embarrassed fan to one that knows it all. There was no canceled 2002 European tour. It was in 2001. First summer, then postponed until winter and then cancelled.

You fooled me there.

It wasn't seven years ago, it was EIGHT fucking years ago.


Ill-informed....



If somebody wants to plan a holiday/trip to see GN'R abroad. That's up to them. I've done that myself and had a great time.

Some I bet didn't because they listened to people like you talking about a non-existent 2002 European tour that never existed in the first place.

You don't win anything by sitting at home whining.


Yes, the shows are unconfirmed by the band BUT consider the facts. The shows were announced a moth ago (or so). They went on sale.

In the past that has been a good thing.

Now, even shows that the band has confirmed have gotten postponed/canceled. That alone is no guarantee. Everybody knows that, even the ill-informed.

Shit happens occasionally. We can just hope for the best and be happy for the Asian fans.



/jarmo

[TomFriend]

By the way: From an ill-informed embarrassed fan to one that knows it all. There was no canceled 2002 European tour. It was in 2001. First summer, then postponed until winter and then cancelled.

You fooled me there.

It wasn't seven years ago, it was EIGHT fucking years ago.


Ill-informed....



/jarmo

You're the webmaster, I'm not even a 'real fan' according to you. You should have picked up on my minor date discrepancy way earlier than that!

[TomFriend]

Ok, straightforward question for Jarmo, since he finds my suggestion that unconfirmed gigs have a habit of not happening offensive.

If a GNR fan on an average income was thinking of spending, say a very conservative $1500 on getting to one of these Asian shows, would you recommend he did it, or waited until the shows were confirmed by GNR/Axl?

[jarmo]

I'm ill-informed. Remember?

You're the one who knows his stuff. Not me. I just believe anything you say!

How embarrassing is that.....

Ok, straightforward question for Jarmo, since he finds my suggestion that unconfirmed gigs have a habit of not happening offensive.

If a GNR fan on an average income was thinking of spending, say a very conservative $1500 on getting to one of these Asian shows, would you recommend he did it, or waited until the shows were confirmed by GNR/Axl?

Since when is an ill-informed embarrassing person such as myself the right one to give that kind of advice?

I would never tell another person how to spend their own hard earned money. I believe he or she are far better qualified to make that kind of decisions.




/jarmo

[King Sand]

I just hope they actually do this!  I miss getting the updates on set lists and what is happening when they play.  Brings back good memories!

[jarmo]

I just hope they actually do this!  I miss getting the updates on set lists and what is happening when they play.  Brings back good memories!

I know!

The tours in 2006 and 2007 were amazing!




/jarmo

[GnR-NOW]

I can't wait for the updates either. I was like a kid on XMAS eve staying up all night on 5-12-06 for updates.

AAHHHHHHHH lets get things rolling with this mini tour, and hoping for a new years eve show at the HoB in AC !!!! One can dream 

[Loaded NightraiN]

Oh btw, many of us have a great friggin' time during 2002 tour in Europe and in USA (including myself in MSG).

Fuckin-ay buddy!

[TomFriend]

I'm ill-informed. Remember?

You're the one who knows his stuff. Not me. I just believe anything you say!

How embarrassing is that.....

When did I claim to know my stuff or be informed? I'm just a fan, looking out for other fans - or at least trying to. If people complain about late show times, you'll point out that the band have always had late show times, as you have many times.

People might also complain about unconfirmed dates getting canceled. I'm only trying to point out that unconfirmed dates have a history of getting cancelled.

From what you're saying, I guess you're expecting the band to confirm the dates closer to the event?

Ok, straightforward question for Jarmo, since he finds my suggestion that unconfirmed gigs have a habit of not happening offensive.

If a GNR fan on an average income was thinking of spending, say a very conservative $1500 on getting to one of these Asian shows, would you recommend he did it, or waited until the shows were confirmed by GNR/Axl?

Since when is an ill-informed embarrassing person such as myself the right one to give that kind of advice?

I would never tell another person how to spend their own hard earned money. I believe he or she are far better qualified to make that kind of decisions.




/jarmo

That's back peddling to say the least, considering how hard you came down on me for suggesting that the shows might not happen without the band's confirmation.

I just hope they actually do this!  I miss getting the updates on set lists and what is happening when they play.  Brings back good memories!

The shows I saw in 2006 were right up there with the best rock gigs I've ever seen. As far as lineup goes, I missed Bucket, but Bumblefoot's charisma and Axl's far superior performances blew 2002 out of the water. I don't know what the fuck he found in those 4 years that was missing in 2002, but it was a hell of a transformation, and much more compelling to see and hear.

 I really hope if there is touring to be done over the next year or two that we'll finally get a pro-shot latter day GNR DVD. I think a lot of people have preconceptions about this band that would be shattered if they saw what they were capable of live.

The setlist situation will be interesting, since CD got such limited airplay, but the diehard fans will all be clamoring for the new tunes.

Here's hoping that the chance for some Guns activity is realized before the year is out.

[Ulises]

Hey TomFriend, is this necessary? Cut it out dude.

[TomFriend]

Hey TomFriend, is this necessary? Cut it out dude.

If it wasn't necessary to point out that these shows are currently 'proceed with caution', this thread wouldn't be titled 'Asian Tour 2009? (unconfirmed)', and these gigs would be listed on the front page of the site.

[jarmo]

People might also complain about unconfirmed dates getting canceled. I'm only trying to point out that unconfirmed dates have a history of getting cancelled.

That's great. So do you have an explanation for why the gig(s) in India was/were immediately denied but the others weren't?

Why have we seen updates from band members saying they're rehearsing?

I mean, none of the above guarantee anything, because there's never 100% guarantees, but it's still too much to simply ignore based on something that happened eight years ago!

From what you're saying, I guess you're expecting the band to confirm the dates closer to the event?

No, what I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised because that's how they've done it on past tours that still went on and were successful.

That's back peddling to say the least, considering how hard you came down on me for suggesting that the shows might not happen without the band's confirmation.

Because you choose poor excuses for "evidence" and conveniently ignore actual facts.




/jarmo

[TomFriend]

People might also complain about unconfirmed dates getting canceled. I'm only trying to point out that unconfirmed dates have a history of getting cancelled.

That's great. So do you have an explanation for why the gig(s) in India was/were immediately denied but the others weren't?

Why have we seen updates from band members saying they're rehearsing?

I mean, none of the above guarantee anything, because there's never 100% guarantees, but it's still too much to simply ignore based on something that happened eight years ago!

From what you're saying, I guess you're expecting the band to confirm the dates closer to the event?

No, what I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised because that's how they've done it on past tours that still went on and were successful.

That's back peddling to say the least, considering how hard you came down on me for suggesting that the shows might not happen without the band's confirmation.

Because you choose poor excuses for "evidence" and conveniently ignore actual facts.




/jarmo

In that case, if what I'm saying is so ludicrous and made up of such 'poor excuses' and everything's planned to go ahead, why not give us a probable reason why the band haven't confirmed the dates? If you don't have one it seems you know as much or as little as me.

If you're so confident of these dates taking place, why aren't they on the front page? If you're not confident, why are you arguing with me that people should excise caution based on past cancellations of unconfirmed dates? You can't just sit on the fence and say 'I'm right either way'.

[jarmo]

In that case, if what I'm saying is so ludicrous and made up of such 'poor excuses' and everything's planned to go ahead, why not give us a probable reason why the band haven't confirmed the dates? If you don't have one it seems you know as much or as little as me.

Why do you skip the questions and just ask me another one? 


I always believed the album would be out, I believed it's be awesome, I believe they'll tour.

I don't think I need to explain myself. I don't like seeing everything in black. Everything doesn't suck!


Everything has at least one reason. And because we're not in the band or deal with the band's stuff, it's hard to try to start speculating on why's and why not's.

If you're so confident of these dates taking place, why aren't they on the front page? If you're not confident, why are you arguing with me that people should excise caution based on past cancellations of unconfirmed dates? You can't just sit on the fence and say 'I'm right either way'.

I can hope/think/wish that the shows will go ahead and still know that the dates haven't been confirmed by the band. It's a fact....

It's not like you have to be either one.


Silly argument.

And maybe I don't put them up on the page because maybe people like yourself will see it as some kind of "confirmation"...




/jarmo

[TomFriend]

I also believed the album would be out, told everyone who would listen about it, took them to shows etc. What does one thing have to do with the other? I'm also sure the band will tour again at some point. Not necessarily this year, but I hope it will be.


The band rehearsing does not necessarily mean Axl is rehearsing, or the whole band is rehearsing, or that these are the dates they are rehearsing for.
If everything was straightforward and going according to plan (which both you and I sincerely hope they are) I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't confirm the dates. Until the band choose to fill us in, there's a question mark hanging over these dates.

Axl has also told us on occasion not to believe other people r.e. GNR commitments. So you're pissed at me for listening to Axl?

I'd love for these dates to happen and hope they do, especially for the uber-devoted fans who are traveling over there. That's all I can say.

You arguing with me when I say these dates might not happen is pretty ridiculous when you yourself list them as unconfirmed.

I don't think I was out of line suggesting that people wait for confirmation from the band. If you think I was, and that is yet another one of your things to add to the list of why I don't live up to your lofty expectations of a 'real fan', I won't be losing too much sleep over that.

If the gigs are canceled, you'll be the first one to deride anyone who complains that they wasted their airfare. I've seen it happen before.

[jarmo]

The band rehearsing does not necessarily mean Axl is rehearsing, or the whole band is rehearsing, or that these are the dates they are rehearsing for.
If everything was straightforward and going according to plan (which both you and I sincerely hope they are) I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't confirm the dates. Until the band choose to fill us in, there's a question mark hanging over these dates.

I believe I said it didn't guarantee anything, but you have to look at the facts and maybe it makes you think.

Ok. So you're saying the band would be rehearsing for something else... They denied playing in India but not Taiwan, South Korea or Japan. But they're still rehearsing for something else?

You don't think that's a bit far fetched?

You can think of that as a reason to disregard the rehearsing, but when it comes to other things, you can't think of even one single reason? Wow.
 
Your imagination seems to only work in one way. In order to disregard facts......

Axl has also told us on occasion not to believe other people r.e. GNR commitments. So you're pissed at me for listening to Axl?

Another generalization to fit your own agenda.

you yourself list them as unconfirmed.

Because it's a fact! The band has not confirmed these shows (yet).

It's not a fact that this is your beloved 2001 all over again.

If the gigs are canceled, you'll be the first one to deride anyone who complains that they wasted their airfare. I've seen it happen before.

Oh you have?

As somebody who's had shows canceled on, I can relate. And I'm not even talking about 2001....

Do I still feel upset about that? Nope...


Obviously I have more faith in the other fans than you seem to. Ironically I'm supposed to be the one who looks down on everybody else...

I'm not offering people advice on how to spend their money or telling them not to book anything. It's up to them.

I tend to think these people, who most likely are adults, are taking everything into consideration, as adults do, and make their own decisions based on that.

I'm not gonna declare them incapable and say "save your money for another tour".




/jarmo

[TomFriend]

Axl has also told us on occasion not to believe other people r.e. GNR commitments. So you're pissed at me for listening to Axl?

Another generalization to fit your own agenda.

What agenda? Jesus, paranoid much? My only agenda is hoping the band isn't getting fucked over by being booked for commitments they can't fulfill, (like they did all of about 2 months ago with India) and that fans don't waste their money travelling to shows that might not happen. What a selfish asshole I am!

So we should listen to Axl, except when we should ignore him, because it makes things more positive, unconfirmed gigs are all but certainties, and unicorns shit rainbows. Gotcha.

That's far more rational than assuming that these gigs may be unconfirmed for a reason. Or doesn't that fit your agenda?

[jarmo]

Not paranoid at all.

Just seen this all before. People who use Axl's quotes to fit their own needs when in fact the quotes and several others could be used to describe them!


You can make all the jokes you want.

The fact remains, I'm apparently embarrassing while you conveniently choose to ignore questions and facts while basing your opinion on things that happened eight years ago.

And hopefully won't happen again because people learn....

Oops. Once again I show too much faith in people. Who am I kidding? I'm supposed to look down on everybody else. I do that! I read it on the Internet. The same place where I embarrass myself!



It's also the usual shit. People like yourself like to take something positive and turn it into some kind of whine fest. So you can bring up shit most people got over years ago.

Every time there's a tour planned, we see these people come and point out that GN'R canceled gigs!

No shit!

They're all so noble and trying to rescue the poor clueless fans by going on and on about how there were canceled gigs in the past!

When that fails and the tour goes ahead, they're back whining about the setlist.

My only agenda is hoping the band isn't getting fucked over by being booked for commitments they can't fulfill, (like they did all of about 2 months ago with India)

Maybe you can explain why India was instantly denied while the other dates were announced and then went on sale?

Personally, that gives me hope....



I think everybody here appreciates your concern for their finances and I would like to thank you from all of us. Now if you could do us all a favor and go find something else to do while you await the future of this tour. Because now we have established that you are concerned for the fans and you don't think the tour will happen unless the band says it's not like in 2001 anymore.

But you hope you're wrong and it goes as planned.

We don't really need to know more than that do we? Now back to the regularly scheduled ill-informed posts....




/jarmo