Chinese Democracy Reviews: 9 months later

[Voodoochild]

Voodoo you are wrong about IRS. The guitar lead Robin plays is not a riff. That is a guitar fill or melody

What the hell? Anything could be a "guitar fill or melody".

Chord progressions and riffs aren't what I was talking about.

Oh, great.

I was meaning to say, Axl sings over Chord Progressions but they aren't really riffs

For Example, CD's Chord Progression is a riff cause it is the featured part of the song.

What Axl sings over on IRS is just a chord Progression but it isn't a riff cause it isn't ever used as the main part of the song A La a Walk This Way or Stairway, Rock N Roll, paranoid, Iron Man, Black in Black etc

Again, your ignoring Ron guitar work - far from being only a chord progression. Still, IRS has a wha riff here and there very subtle, but that doesn't count, right?

Same with Scraped, what is the main riff? U can't sing it cause it is just a chord Progression Axl sings over.

The chorus thing has a riff there. It's not just a chord progression.

Just saying, no riff from CD will ever make any greatest riffs of all time list.

So? Again, you put in the popularity POV.

That isn't taking away from the album, cause I don't think Axl was trying to make that kind of album so its ok. I think he even said in one interview how he didn't know how to make that kind of album or something right?

He said they tried to do something like AFD, but that didn't feel right.

Once again, a few of us are saying how it would've been cool, if maybe a song or two would've had some really hard  amazing riff.

The best riff on the album "Better" breakdown part is half way through the song.

Better intro riff is amazing. Riad's riff is amazing and hard as hell. Shackler's riff is amazing (I mean the guitar riff that starts when Axl starts to sing). You don't think they are amazing riffs, that's ok. But don't tell me there's no guitar riffs in there - and all of those songs are pretty guitar driven.

Yes, sorry if I was taken out of context as well.  Like D, I like the album, but was noting a song or two with some nasty, ballsy guitar riffage would have been nice. 

Hopefully you'll explain to me your new concept of riff soon. And its a shame that you can't consider those riffs I mentioned above as "ballsy guitar riffage", you may think they are all synth soft chord progression.

[D]

I think you are grasping for straws Voodoo but that is just my opinion, U are calling guitar parts Axl sings over in the verses Guitar riffs... and yeah, technically anything is a riff but U are refusing to see what we are talking about and it is driving me bat shit crazy:

We are talking RIFF as in Master of Puppets, Enter Sandman, Paradise City, Welcome to The Jungle, Walk This Way, Paranoid, Iron Man, Crazy Train

RIFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not what the vocalist sings over.



I am sitting here listening to "Imagine" by John Lennon and it makes me wish Axl had made Catcher like this. Just piano with a little orchestra and Axl's awesome piano,vocals and melodies


Listen to "Imagine" and then imagine *no pun intended a bunch of crazy guitar over top of it... it jwould ruin the song.


I think in parts on CD, Axl tries so hard to let every band member be involved that it becomes overkill to a degree.

TIL doesn't need a solo but i feel where RObin talked Axl into using it, he felt he owed Robin a moment to shine and I just don't think it works as well as just a piano/orchestra vocal version.

[CheapJon]

 
yup, that sounds like our axl all right, leaving stuff on CD to be kind

[Smoking Guns]

Voodoo, why do you care so much that D, myself, and Jdog (i think that is his name) enjoy some monster riffage from riff masters like Tony Iommi, Angus Young, and even Slash.  I think we just wanted some hard straight ahead rock tunes.....  Some songs have some touches of that, but none are made dripping wet of pure badassness....  Its okay, we still like the album.  It is not good enough for you Voodoo that we bought the album and supported GNR.  No, D and I actually now have to admit that Robin Finck, Bucket, Richard, and Ron are now "riff masters" and that the album is complex is deep that our simple minds can't "hear" the riffs.  Maybe on the next album, Axl will get a little more primal, stripped down, and let the guitar players do their thing.  Outside of solos, I really just don't hear much attitude in their playing.   

[Trist805]

I was listening to it again and I noticed a few riffs.  Shackler's Revenge,  If The World which is a very riff-heavy, guitar oriented song, IRS threw me at first with the reggae parts, but there are some heavy riffs on that song too.   And the chorus of Sorry, and the song Scraped. But like others have said, this album goes far beyond simply relying on a guitar riff for a song.  The solos are all pretty amazing, and Axl sings great.   Sometimes I have to slap myself to make sure it is real that I am hearing Axl Rose sing along with Buckethead's guitar. 

[Voodoochild]

I think you are grasping for straws Voodoo but that is just my opinion, U are calling guitar parts Axl sings over in the verses Guitar riffs... and yeah, technically anything is a riff but U are refusing to see what we are talking about and it is driving me bat shit crazy:

We are talking RIFF as in Master of Puppets, Enter Sandman, Paradise City, Welcome to The Jungle, Walk This Way, Paranoid, Iron Man, Crazy Train

RIFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not what the vocalist sings over.

Did I say that every single guitar part Axl sings over is a riff? I pointed out the parts.

And NO, you guys aren't taking Riff as you said. At least that's not what Smoking Guns were saying.

I pointed out a few riffs on Chinese songs but you just don't think its enough. That's my point: why the hell those riffs like Riad and Better "doesn't count", as you said previously?

I am sitting here listening to "Imagine" by John Lennon and it makes me wish Axl had made Catcher like this. Just piano with a little orchestra and Axl's awesome piano,vocals and melodies


Listen to "Imagine" and then imagine *no pun intended a bunch of crazy guitar over top of it... it jwould ruin the song.


I think in parts on CD, Axl tries so hard to let every band member be involved that it becomes overkill to a degree.

TIL doesn't need a solo but i feel where RObin talked Axl into using it, he felt he owed Robin a moment to shine and I just don't think it works as well as just a piano/orchestra vocal version.

That's ridiculous.

Also, you seem to hate what a lot of people loves in the album. From Robin's solo in TIL to TWAT's lyrics. See, you think Axl ruined a song because of your personal taste, as if its a common sense. A LOT of people thinks Bumblefoot's guitar work in Catcher is superb and even likes the song more than the demo.

Voodoo, why do you care so much that D, myself, and Jdog (i think that is his name) enjoy some monster riffage from riff masters like Tony Iommi, Angus Young, and even Slash.  I think we just wanted some hard straight ahead rock tunes..... 

I don't care. I do care if you say how much you love those hard rock guitar work and disconsider everything else as a fucking riff just because the tone is different or it isn't as much "straight ahead rock tunes" as you expected.

It's like there's always a need to say "it's great, BUT...". But one thing is to dislike something, other is to claim how it doesn't have something just because it's not the way you expected. Again: Riad riff is fucking huge and heavy, but you all seem to ignore it. Better intro riff is just a wha guitar, but you all seem to ignore it.

Also, the whole "chord progression is not a riff" thing just vanished, huh?

Some songs have some touches of that, but none are made dripping wet of pure badassness....  Its okay, we still like the album.  It is not good enough for you Voodoo that we bought the album and supported GNR.  No, D and I actually now have to admit that Robin Finck, Bucket, Richard, and Ron are now "riff masters" and that the album is complex is deep that our simple minds can't "hear" the riffs.  Maybe on the next album, Axl will get a little more primal, stripped down, and let the guitar players do their thing.  Outside of solos, I really just don't hear much attitude in their playing.   

Oh, stop with the overreacting. The thing is: you just seem to consider riff when is a hard rock classic tone. When something like Shackler's riff is pointed out, you just ignore it. Bucket is playing a really heavy riff there, but that doesn't count just because you guys doesn't want to. Same with Riad. Same with Scraped. Same with Chinese. Same with Better. See a pattern there?

[ppbebe]

haha so, it wasn't out of context after all those riff driven dogmatists were trying to belittle cd's greatness whether its riff or not.

Voodoo, why do you care so much that D, myself, and Jdog (i think that is his name)

must be a wrong person. J dog adores the album.

[GnR-NOW]

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

[russtcb]

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

I go back and forth on either There Was A Time or Better being the greatest GN'R song ever. And cases for both songs can be made on Finck & BH's playing.

[D]

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

I go back and forth on either There Was A Time or Better being the greatest GN'R song ever. And cases for both songs can be made on Finck & BH's playing.

Greatest EVER? as in EVER....... Better is better than Welcome To The Jungle, SCOM, NR or Estranged?

[GnR-NOW]

Im my opinion it is. If I had to take one Gn'R song to stand by it would be There Was A Time. I love all Gn'R songs, but TWAT is my fav.

With that said, recently I've been playing the hell out of the Greatest Hits too.

[D]

No disrespect intended, but u have to take into account that u are comparing a song not even a year old to something 20 years old

so yeah, a song is played out and u are sick of it but that is cause its 20 years old. So of course something fresher and newer will seem better but I'd like to see if u still feel that way in 20 years.

I think everything is the greatest for the first year or so............... Then once u start wearing it out, u kind of get the true test of its staying p ower

I loved "This I Love" first 100 listens, now..... I can't be bothered to hear it anymore

I've listened to Madagascar for 8 years and still LOVE IT.

[duga]

Quick n' dirty:

CD 2/10 (way too long intro)
Shackler's 6/10
Better 5/10
SoD 4/10
ItW 4/10
TWAT 10/10
Catcher 7/10
Scraped 6/10
Riad 4/10
Sorry 8/10
I.R.S. 7/10
Maddy 8/10
TiL 8/10
Prostitute 9/10

= 6,3/10 or 3,1/5

[ppbebe]

I've already listened to cd more times than uyi and perhaps afd. 

still can't decide on what cd song is the best ever. yea twat is really moving so is madagascar. but better is the most cathartic and irs is so intense. ITw shows me the cosmos riad is like gusts of wind and scraped gives me a lot of go and prostitue cradles me.
scacklers is murderous and citr is anti peter pan. TIL is so naked. so is sorry.
cd is one of the greatest opening/ title songs

overall the band's growth is remarkable on cd.

[Voodoochild]

I still can't stop listening to the whole album. I do replay Riad and Scraped a lot, tho.

I have a playlist with some of the old songs, but I'm always anxious to the new songs to start.

No disrespect intended, but u have to take into account that u are comparing a song not even a year old to something 20 years old

You know very well how TWAT is out there for more than 3 years. They even played it live by that time.

Goes in the same way about Madagascar for you and Riad for me.

[russtcb]

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

I go back and forth on either There Was A Time or Better being the greatest GN'R song ever. And cases for both songs can be made on Finck & BH's playing.

Greatest EVER? as in EVER....... Better is better than Welcome To The Jungle, SCOM, NR or Estranged?

In my opinion, not only is Better superior to SCoM, WttJ & Estranged, it's far and away superior to those tracks. I feel the same way about TWaT as well but I sometimes can't decide which of those two is the best.

[ppbebe]

likewise, puristic Beatles fans and maybe some casual fans prefer yesterday to a day in the life 

[Trist805]

There Was A Time is the best song ever. You want great guitar playing by Finck and Bucket this song has it !

I go back and forth on either There Was A Time or Better being the greatest GN'R song ever. And cases for both songs can be made on Finck & BH's playing.

Greatest EVER? as in EVER....... Better is better than Welcome To The Jungle, SCOM, NR or Estranged?

In my opinion, not only is Better superior to SCoM, WttJ & Estranged, it's far and away superior to those tracks. I feel the same way about TWaT as well but I sometimes can't decide which of those two is the best.

I pretty much agree.  There are plenty of songs on Chinese Democracy that I would prefer over Estranged, and SCOM.  I always thought SCOM was wayyy overrated.  It's kind of pop, and is way different from the other songs on AFD.    Jungle is classic, though, and I don't know if any band can match it, but that is in it's own category.  Estranged is cool, but it's like 10 minutes and I don't have the patience to sit through it regularly. 

November Rain is cool, but I was never really that into it.  It can be a big hit or whatever, but it doesn't mean I worship it.   As far as I'm concerned there isn't much difference in the songs  between November Rain and the new ballads except that Slash and Duff aren't on there.  I think there plenty of songs on CD that are similar to Estranged and November Rain.   It basically picked up where UYIs left off. 

[ppbebe]

and you don't see the huge growth?

[D]

I don't hear anything on CD that approaches Estranged