Chinese Democracy Reviews: 9 months later

[D]

Ali, did you really have to quote that whole fucking post?

D, how can you leave Paradise City out of a Top 10?

It would be in the top 15... PC is interesting but it is one of those that just got kind of annoying over time. I remember never being able to sit through the entire video........

Its one of those unexplainable things.

[Ali]

I agree with you D. I love riffs, too. CD doesn't have hummable riffs. But, because that was by design, I don't feel anything is missing.

Ali

[D]

Yeah, I think we just had a misunderstanding and that happens with online discussion that wouldn't happen in person.


As u can see, I find CD to be brilliant.

Estranged is a song that I don't think could ever be surpassed but then again, I am incredibly biased just due to the meaning that song has for me. I can't being to describe but Madagascar has a close meaning also and i find it really weird when a lot of people rank it so low on CD.........

Even the quotes are just genius and brilliant. They tell a very good story i can relate to.


my main gripe about it was, how so many guitars/synths are a good idea on some songs, but on others it buries Tommy and even the drums to a degree.

If u haven't played Prostitute on Rockband, u are missing out.

I use to laugh when People said Tommy was better than Duff... after hearing his bass on Prostitute, I don't laugh anymore. it is incredible.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

The only thing "poppy" about Scraped is the A-yo during the choruses.  And that's only because it is an element borrowed from hip hop which is the "pop" of nowadays.

You're Crazy is more punk than metal. 

BACK TO THE FRONT, CALEN!

You listen to any of the new death metal songs, some of the heaviest shit out now, and Scraped has the same structure as those songs.  The drums, the bass, and the riffing is fucking HEAVY METAL.

[AxlsMainMan]

The only thing "poppy" about Scraped is the A-yo during the choruses.  And that's only because it is an element borrowed from hip hop which is the "pop" of nowadays.

What about the Brownstone-style bongos during the first verse?

[Bodhi]

I love guitar riffs. GNR has some of the greatest guitar riffs of all time, Metallica the same.
.

D I see what you are saying.  Metallica is a metal band though, comparing them and GNR is like apples and oranges.  If you could look up "guitar riffs" in a dictionary you would see a picture of James Hetfield and Kirk Hammett.  Metallica has never had more than 4 band members play on one album.  The riff tradeoff between Hetfield and Hammett is what every Metallica song is built around.  GNR on the other hand had what, like 10 band members credited on this album?  With so many musicians in the band you can't expect one instrument to carry the record.  Whatever GNR did on this album works, it is a great album.  "Chinese Democracy" is more along the lines of "Estranged", "November Rain" and "Dont Cry" than it is "Welcome to the Jungle", "Right Next Door to Hell" or "You Could Be Mine", the more "riff" oriented songs.  Which  I think is what you were trying to say in the first place.

[Ali]

The only thing "poppy" about Scraped is the A-yo during the choruses.  And that's only because it is an element borrowed from hip hop which is the "pop" of nowadays.

You're Crazy is more punk than metal. 

BACK TO THE FRONT, CALEN!

You listen to any of the new death metal songs, some of the heaviest shit out now, and Scraped has the same structure as those songs.  The drums, the bass, and the riffing is fucking HEAVY METAL.

Agree with everything you just said.  To me, "You're Crazy" is more punk-ish than metal.  "Scraped"'s riffs are more metallic.

Ali

[Voodoochild]

IRS doesn't have a guitar RIFF either. It has the acoustical thing if that counts, but then Axl like on most of the other songs comes in with a vocal over a chord progression.

What the hell does Robin plays above the accoustic guitar then? Do you call it a solo?

And it's nice to see how Ron licks all over the chord progression getting gone from your listening pleasure.

Before hearing the album, I was hoping for at least one old school type riff rocker. It wasn't on there, and that is fine. But if we are throwing out reviews, I am going to tell u what I love and what I don't love hence the title of review.

AKA prejudice. You expected something they NEVER promised you, and now you're upset. Very fair.

Chord progressions aren't the riffs I am talking about.

I think maybe the problem here is that its hard to explain what a musician considers a riff.  anyone who plays the guitar will know exactly what you're talking about but others probably don't and its too hard to explain in words lol!

Bullshit. I've been playing guitar for 14 years, I know exactly what a riff is. I posted two examples of Queen's chord progression riffs, but hey, let's ignore it.

I agree, it is not a guitar album, it's an Axl album.  None of the guitar players have a strong personality and thus do not have a strong influence on the sound like a certain former guitarist that shall remain nameless.

Hahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.



Again, not a surprise to see who says what.

[Smoking Guns]

For those that don't know what riffs are, you can hear them in the begining of the following songs.

Smoke on the Water
Back in Black
Highway to Hell
Lagrange
Sweet Emotion
Satisfaction
Voodoo Child
Rock Bottom

No songs on CD have riffs that stand out like the above tunes.  That isn't a "bad" thing.  Its a fact.  D is correct, and he also said he loves the album.  Get off his back.  You don't have to have a great riff for a song, but, it sure does help.

[russtcb]

For those that don't know what riffs are, you can hear them in the begining of the following songs.

Smoke on the Water
Back in Black
Highway to Hell
Lagrange
Sweet Emotion
Satisfaction
Voodoo Child
Rock Bottom

No songs on CD have riffs that stand out like the above tunes.  That isn't a "bad" thing.  Its a fact.  D is correct, and he also said he loves the album.  Get off his back.  You don't have to have a great riff for a song, but, it sure does help.

I think Better qualifies.

[Voodoochild]

IMO, Better and Riad riffs are both stand out riffs.

For those that don't know what riffs are, you can hear them in the begining of the following songs.

Smoke on the Water
Back in Black
Highway to Hell
Lagrange
Sweet Emotion
Satisfaction
Voodoo Child
Rock Bottom

No songs on CD have riffs that stand out like the above tunes.  That isn't a "bad" thing.  Its a fact.  D is correct, and he also said he loves the album.  Get off his back.  You don't have to have a great riff for a song, but, it sure does help.

Smoke on the water and Satisfaction are a chord progression. It can't be a riff!!!!!!!!!

Shall we put Back in Black in that range too? Its a chord progression with just a lick in the middle.

Also, reminds me of All Along The Watchtower accousti intro. That can't be a riff either.

And so on...

[jarmo]

So basically there are no riffs in the world and therefore all music isn't as good as it could be if there were some riffs in it?

 




/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

So basically there are no riffs in the world and therefore all music isn't as good as it could be if there were some riffs in it?

 




/jarmo

Wow, you are seeing the light.... HA!

Not what I said, but you all get the point. 

[greekmule]

I think what some people are trying to say is that CD lacks in "dirty" riffs (see Mr Brownstone). but this is not the point I want to make.

For me CD could have at least 3 perfect songs (TWAT, CITR, Madagascar) but  the final cut is subpar with the exception of Madagascar.

TWAT has severe bass and drums issues (compare the drum sound to the one in Madagascar) while CITR is completely butchered.

regarding the rest of the songs, most are good but the whole album suffers from mixing problems (esp Tommy's bass which is almost inaudible)   

And before someone again says that if we had not heard the leaks then we wouldn't complain I will say that the leaks more or less suffer from the same problems. 

[D]

IRS doesn't have a guitar RIFF either. It has the acoustical thing if that counts, but then Axl like on most of the other songs comes in with a vocal over a chord progression.

What the hell does Robin plays above the accoustic guitar then? Do you call it a solo?

And it's nice to see how Ron licks all over the chord progression getting gone from your listening pleasure.

Before hearing the album, I was hoping for at least one old school type riff rocker. It wasn't on there, and that is fine. But if we are throwing out reviews, I am going to tell u what I love and what I don't love hence the title of review.

AKA prejudice. You expected something they NEVER promised you, and now you're upset. Very fair.

Chord progressions aren't the riffs I am talking about.

I think maybe the problem here is that its hard to explain what a musician considers a riff.  anyone who plays the guitar will know exactly what you're talking about but others probably don't and its too hard to explain in words lol!

Bullshit. I've been playing guitar for 14 years, I know exactly what a riff is. I posted two examples of Queen's chord progression riffs, but hey, let's ignore it.

I agree, it is not a guitar album, it's an Axl album.  None of the guitar players have a strong personality and thus do not have a strong influence on the sound like a certain former guitarist that shall remain nameless.

Hahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.



Again, not a surprise to see who says what.

where did I ever say I was upset? Now u are just making stuff up

I have praised most of the album. I simply said, I would love to have one kick ass straight up old school riff crazy rocker.

If u count guitar fills as riffs, all power to u. I separate them......

I already talked about Better and how I don't like the intro... I think the tone is annoying... with Guitar for me, its about attitude and tone. I could care less how many notes u can per second or how technical u are.

I like emotion filled, amazing tone.

For instance, I am not a fan of Joe Perry... I like his riffs but U couldn't pay me to sit through most of his solos as they bore me to tears..... kind of the opposite with GNR.. their solos,fills kick ass but they don't really come up with big time riffs.
I think Prince has the most amazing guitar tone ever and could listen to him play for hours on end. can he play 1000 notes per second? no but his tone just eats u alive.

thats just what I am into. I don't dislike Robin as a person or musician but for most of CD, I don't like his guitar tone. He has a nice tone on Better's solo and SOD solo but his tone on the Better intro and TIL solo just don't please my ear.



If u think they have a SCOM or Walk This Way or Enter Sandman type of iconic riff on this album, u are mistaken

once again, nobody is bitching or upset about that. we are just talking about the album and what we love and what we don't necessarily love.

how come when anyone says anything half way critical of this band, somebody has to break out the "U were never owed or promised something"  Jesus that drives me bat shit crazy when someone says that. I am the biggest Bon Jovi fan in the world but if their new album doesn't have some fucking rock on it, I am going to be mentioning that in my reviews of the album

Jesus, Madagascar and Prostitute make my all time 10 greatest GNR songs ever list. That is a damn good compliment to this album especially considering what an old school GNR die hard I am and I have never hid that.

[Continental Drift]

Well worth the wait (a minor miracle considering how loooooooong the wait was) and one of the great "fan" albums ever IMHO. Moderate commercial success (by lofty Guns N' Roses standards of yore)- yet an artistic triumph of the highest order.

Enjoy the entire album regularly, but "Prostitute" (Axl's greatest song ever IMHO), "This I Love", "Rhiad & The Bedoins", "Catcher In The Rye" and "Better" and are the true stand-outs for me...

[jacdaniel]

I agree with D!  This thread is such a joke!  I thought reviews included positive and negative feedback.  seems like only positive feedback is wanted here or else your a band "hater".

I would have LIKED more riffs on CD.  i DO understand that Axl never promised me this.  But while discussing the album, im still gonna talk about why i would have liked more riffs. 

Does that make me a band "hater"    If it makes some people feel better about themselves to brand me that then fine!

Overall id give the album 6/10.  Some good ballads, great Axl vocals and some cool guitar but lacks some of the agression that got me into Guns.

The review a lot of you want to hear:  CD is a masterpiece.  It is a miracle that this album was ever released and Nu Guns are the best band in the world.  Everything is so good with this album that nobody can ever question any of it. 

[Ali]

I agree with D!  This thread is such a joke!  I thought reviews included positive and negative feedback.  seems like only positive feedback is wanted here or else your a band "hater".

I would have LIKED more riffs on CD.  i DO understand that Axl never promised me this.  But while discussing the album, im still gonna talk about why i would have liked more riffs. 

Does that make me a band "hater"    If it makes some people feel better about themselves to brand me that then fine!

Overall id give the album 6/10.  Some good ballads, great Axl vocals and some cool guitar but lacks some of the agression that got me into Guns.

The review a lot of you want to hear:  CD is a masterpiece.  It is a miracle that this album was ever released and Nu Guns are the best band in the world.  Everything is so good with this album that nobody can ever question any of it. 

Here's the thing:  if you are going to post your opinion on a message board, you are opening it up for challenge and discussion.  If you don't want your opinion challenged and questioned and discussed, don't put it on a message board.

That's not the same as calling someone a "hater".  I, for one, never used that word once.  I just feel that anyone that thinks there is something missing if there are no guitar riffs driving the new songs is off base because these songs were never meant to be built like that.  Songs like "Madagascar" were built around chord progressions played on a keyboard/synthesizer or piano.  That mindset is, in my opinion, not applicable because its based on expectations created by the old band and their riff-driven songs.  This is not the old band.

Ali

[ShotgunBlues1978]

It's not really a "riff rock" album but Chinese, Better (throughout), Riad (throughout), Shackler's (particularly the pre-chorus) and Scraped (intro/second chorus) in particular all have pretty clear and "hummable" riffs at numerous parts in the song, including the beginning.  Just because the album does not contain the old AC/DC, GNR, Back In Black, Jungle style riffs or the current "intro-palm mute during the verses" thing going on does not mean there aren't riffs on the album

For that matter, Sorry also has a pretty clear "riff" during the verses, pre-choruses and the choruses, even though they are pretty low key aside from the chorus

[Smoking Guns]

IMO, Better and Riad riffs are both stand out riffs.

For those that don't know what riffs are, you can hear them in the begining of the following songs.

Smoke on the Water
Back in Black
Highway to Hell
Lagrange
Sweet Emotion
Satisfaction
Voodoo Child
Rock Bottom

No songs on CD have riffs that stand out like the above tunes.  That isn't a "bad" thing.  Its a fact.  D is correct, and he also said he loves the album.  Get off his back.  You don't have to have a great riff for a song, but, it sure does help.

Smoke on the water and Satisfaction are a chord progression. It can't be a riff!!!!!!!!!

Shall we put Back in Black in that range too? Its a chord progression with just a lick in the middle.

Also, reminds me of All Along The Watchtower accousti intro. That can't be a riff either.

And so on...

You are wrong.  Smoke on Water Riff, the whole song is built around that riff.  Take the riff away, you have no song.  Back in Black, are you serious?  THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST OBVIOUS RIFFS EVER.  Better's intro 'riff' or intro is so weak and is not necessary to the song.  Satisfaction is a simple riff, yes, but one of the most famous ones ever... Again, song is built around it.