Chinese Democracy Reviews: 9 months later

[gilld1]

But why have McDonalds when you can have kobe beef?

[AxlsMainMan]

Because kobe can often leave a change that's more bitter than sweet.

[The Glow Inc.]

And to deny the importance of Robin Finck and especially Buckethead on Chinese Democracy, even if they are gone now, is unfair.

I mean, Buckethead is all over the place...

If I were to ( over ) simplify, Chinese Democracy = Axl's vision + Buckethead's guitar + Robin's feel  

It's probably not as groundbreaking as GnR with Appetite, but it's definitely not just Axl's voice...

Or, if a shitload of albums sound exactly like Chinese Democracy then, by all means, tell me what bands I must listen to !

[gilld1]

I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from Robin or Bucket.

I think what is being said is that if you have 2 players with the talent of Robin and Bucket then their playing should be more prominent in the mix and not be muddled under 50 layers of guitar.

[gilld1]

Because kobe can often leave a change that's more bitter than sweet.

But McDonalds leaves you feeling unsatisfied and just as hungery as you were before.

[Ali]

I hear all kinds of Slash/Izzy style licks throughout CD.

I also think Riad is heavier than Scraped.

Agreed, Gn'R have way heavier songs than Scraped.

Out Ta Get Me, My Michelle, You're Crazy, and Perfect Crime all come to mind.

All those songs you just listed are old school, blues-based GN'R songs.  I don't see how anyone can think there is a heavier, more metal song than "Scraped".  It has no trace of blues-based rock, just a heavy, metal vibe to it.

Ali

[Ali]

Dude you better take that back about If The World! Right the fuck now! The song fucking rules. It still remains my goto when lit. It is trippy as all hell. How dare you Andrew.


... how fucking dare you.

Hey, to each their own my friend.  To be honest, I like the foundations of the song; the intro sets a really cool vibe and the beats are awesome.  The guitar work is top notch.  To be honest, the thing that complete takes me out of the song is Axl's vocals; mainly the verses.  The prolonged notes, it almost sounds like he's singing out of tune, like he's flat.  The chorus is alright but gets old quickly.  It would be a good song if it weren't for those verses; they're just painful in my opinion.

Cheers,

Andrew

The reason why the prolonged notes during the verses sound like he's going out of tune is because he is sliding through notes as opposed to distinctly and crisply hitting individual notes.  A singing technique that's frowned upon by most singing teachers (like my own), but sometimes used for stylistic effect, as in the case of "If The World".

Ali

[AxlsMainMan]

I hear all kinds of Slash/Izzy style licks throughout CD.

I also think Riad is heavier than Scraped.

Agreed, Gn'R have way heavier songs than Scraped.

Out Ta Get Me, My Michelle, You're Crazy, and Perfect Crime all come to mind.

All those songs you just listed are old school, blues-based GN'R songs.  I don't see how anyone can think there is a heavier, more metal song than "Scraped".  It has no trace of blues-based rock, just a heavy, metal vibe to it.

Ali

When I think metal, I think Master of Puppets or Slayer, not Scraped.

[Ali]

I hear all kinds of Slash/Izzy style licks throughout CD.

I also think Riad is heavier than Scraped.

Agreed, Gn'R have way heavier songs than Scraped.

Out Ta Get Me, My Michelle, You're Crazy, and Perfect Crime all come to mind.

All those songs you just listed are old school, blues-based GN'R songs.  I don't see how anyone can think there is a heavier, more metal song than "Scraped".  It has no trace of blues-based rock, just a heavy, metal vibe to it.

Ali

When I think metal, I think Master of Puppets or Slayer, not Scraped.

This isn't a Metallica or Slayer forum, though.  This is a GN'R forum.  Compared to all the songs you listed, "Scraped" is the only metallic-sounding song.

Ali

[AxlsMainMan]

I disagree, Scraped is far poppier than any of those songs.

[PJ]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

[Ali]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

[AxlsMainMan]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

It's riffs don't exactly scream "metal" though. More like hard-rock.

Listen to Disposable Heroes by Metallica, and then listen to Scraped.

Not much comparison.

[D]

We didnt say what was the most "Metal" sounding GNR song, that would still go to You're Crazy off Appetite

Problem with any discussion, is, u have those immediately who try to make accusations and point fingers if you compare CD to something else.

So I can say, this doesn't have riffs like appetite and that gets turned into I am a new band hater or some shit.

Considering Appetite is unanimously voted as one of the top 5 or so rock albums of all time, any comparison to appetite should be flattering and not perceived as some sort of slight

CD is however an extension from the UYI's and not Appetite.

I will give people the argument that CD is very comparable to UYI.

Take away the top songs from UYI and CD is definitely better than the rest of the UYI albums.

Certainly there is no November Rain,Estranged Civil War,YCBM or Coma on CD IMO but CD does more than hold its own with everything else and is better than most of UYI:

I hope this can not get deleted cause I am gonna type a shit load. My honest opinion, I am going to list which songs on CD I like better than previous GNR albums. this is just my opinion and isn't an old vs new bullshit thing.
This is Guns N Roses, so comparisons, I think are fair:


Chinese Democracy I like better than:
AFD:Anything Goes,You're Crazy,Think About You
Lies: Used to Love her,Reckless Life, Nice Boys,Mama Kin
UYI 1: Live and Let Die,You Ain't The First,Back Off Bitch,The Garden,Garden of Eden,Bad Apples
UYI II: Shotgun Blues, Get in The Ring, MY World


Shackler's
AFD:Out Ta Get Me,Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Everything not Patience OIAM or You're Crazy
UYI: RNDTH,Dust In Bones, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obession, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, The Garden, Garden Of Eden,Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI 11: 14 years,Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, GITR, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World

Better:
AFD Same s Shacklers
Lies Same As Shacklers
UYI: LALD,You Ain't The First, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples
UYI: Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, MY World

SOD:
AFD: Same as Shacklers
Lies Everthing off Lies
UYI:RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, Perfect Crime, You aint the first, Bad obssesion, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI: 14 years, Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, Pretty Tied up, So Fine, My World

If The World:
AFD:Same as Shacklers
Lies: All of Lies except Patience and OIAM
UYI 1: same as Street of Dreams
UYI II: Same as street of Dreams

THere Was A Time:
AFD Same As Shackler's Plus My Michelle
Lies: All of Lies
UYI: Same as SOD
UYI II Same as SOD


Catcher:
AFD: Same as Shackler's
Lies All of Lies but Patience and OIAM
UYI: same as SOD
UYI 11: Same as SOD

Scraped:
AFD Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies everything but Patience,You're Crazy,OIAM
UYI 1: RNDTH, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obsession, Back Off Bitch,DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI II: 14 years, Yesterdays,SB,GITR, So Fine, My World

Rhiad
AFD:Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Reckless Life, Nice Boys, used to Love Her
UYI: You Aint The First, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples

Sorry:
AFD:Out Ta Get Me, My michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, perfect Crime, YATF, Bad Obsession, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden Of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead horse
UYI 2: 14 years, Yesterdays, Shotgun, Get in the ring PTU, So Fine, My World

IRS
nothing off Appetite
reckless life, nice boys
back off bitch, bad apples
my world, shotgun blues, gitr

Madagascar:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone,Paradise City,My  Michelle,Think About You, Anything Goes, you're Crazy
Lies: All of It
UYI 1: all of it not November Rain or Coma
UYI 2: all of it not named Estranged

This I Love:
AFD:Same as SOD
Lies all of it
UYI Same as SOD
UYI 2 Same as SOD

Prostitute:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone, Paradise City, My Michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: All of it not Coma or November Rain
UYI: All of it not named ,Estranged


Top 10 GNR all time:
1.Estranged
2.Coma
3.Rocket Queen
4.Sweet Child O Mine
5.Welcome To The Jungle
6.November Rain
7.Nightrain
8.Madagascar
9.Prostitute
10.Civil War

[Ali]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

It's riffs don't exactly scream "metal" though. More like hard-rock.

The songs you listed are all old school GN'R rockers with blues-based riffs.  "Scraped" is not.  The guitars have a metallic sound.  Compared to old school Guns, like the songs you listed, it is more heavy metal-sounding.  I'm not talking about the riffs in "Scraped" on an absolute basis as being true metal, or in comparison to bands like Slayer or Metallica, I'm talking about in comparison to old school GN'R.

Ali

[gilld1]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

It's riffs don't exactly scream "metal" though. More like hard-rock.

The songs you listed are all old school GN'R rockers with blues-based riffs.  "Scraped" is not.  The guitars have a metallic sound.  Compared to old school Guns, like the songs you listed, it is more heavy metal-sounding.  I'm not talking about the riffs in "Scraped" on an absolute basis as being true metal, or in comparison to bands like Slayer or Metallica, I'm talking about in comparison to old school GN'R.

Ali

So if it'sblues based it can't be metal?  Listen to some Motorhead or Metallica's 'Ronnie" and you'll hear the absurdity in your arguement.

[Ali]

We didnt say what was the most "Metal" sounding GNR song, that would still go to You're Crazy off Appetite

Problem with any discussion, is, u have those immediately who try to make accusations and point fingers if you compare CD to something else.

So I can say, this doesn't have riffs like appetite and that gets turned into I am a new band hater or some shit.

Considering Appetite is unanimously voted as one of the top 5 or so rock albums of all time, any comparison to appetite should be flattering and not perceived as some sort of slight

CD is however an extension from the UYI's and not Appetite.

I will give people the argument that CD is very comparable to UYI.

Take away the top songs from UYI and CD is definitely better than the rest of the UYI albums.

Certainly there is no November Rain,Estranged Civil War,YCBM or Coma on CD IMO but CD does more than hold its own with everything else and is better than most of UYI:

I hope this can not get deleted cause I am gonna type a shit load. My honest opinion, I am going to list which songs on CD I like better than previous GNR albums. this is just my opinion and isn't an old vs new bullshit thing.
This is Guns N Roses, so comparisons, I think are fair:


Chinese Democracy I like better than:
AFD:Anything Goes,You're Crazy,Think About You
Lies: Used to Love her,Reckless Life, Nice Boys,Mama Kin
UYI 1: Live and Let Die,You Ain't The First,Back Off Bitch,The Garden,Garden of Eden,Bad Apples
UYI II: Shotgun Blues, Get in The Ring, MY World


Shackler's
AFD:Out Ta Get Me,Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Everything not Patience OIAM or You're Crazy
UYI: RNDTH,Dust In Bones, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obession, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, The Garden, Garden Of Eden,Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI 11: 14 years,Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, GITR, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World

Better:
AFD Same s Shacklers
Lies Same As Shacklers
UYI: LALD,You Ain't The First, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples
UYI: Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, MY World

SOD:
AFD: Same as Shacklers
Lies Everthing off Lies
UYI:RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, Perfect Crime, You aint the first, Bad obssesion, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI: 14 years, Yesterdays,Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring, Pretty Tied up, So Fine, My World

If The World:
AFD:Same as Shacklers
Lies: All of Lies except Patience and OIAM
UYI 1: same as Street of Dreams
UYI II: Same as street of Dreams

THere Was A Time:
AFD Same As Shackler's Plus My Michelle
Lies: All of Lies
UYI: Same as SOD
UYI II Same as SOD


Catcher:
AFD: Same as Shackler's
Lies All of Lies but Patience and OIAM
UYI: same as SOD
UYI 11: Same as SOD

Scraped:
AFD Think About You,Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies everything but Patience,You're Crazy,OIAM
UYI 1: RNDTH, LALD, You Aint The first, Bad Obsession, Back Off Bitch,DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead Horse
UYI II: 14 years, Yesterdays,SB,GITR, So Fine, My World

Rhiad
AFD:Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: Reckless Life, Nice Boys, used to Love Her
UYI: You Aint The First, Back Off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden of Eden, Bad Apples

Sorry:
AFD:Out Ta Get Me, My michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: RNDTH,Dust in Bones, LALD, perfect Crime, YATF, Bad Obsession, Back off Bitch, DTJ, Garden, Garden Of Eden, Bad Apples, Dead horse
UYI 2: 14 years, Yesterdays, Shotgun, Get in the ring PTU, So Fine, My World

IRS
nothing off Appetite
reckless life, nice boys
back off bitch, bad apples
my world, shotgun blues, gitr

Madagascar:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone,Paradise City,My  Michelle,Think About You, Anything Goes, you're Crazy
Lies: All of It
UYI 1: all of it not November Rain or Coma
UYI 2: all of it not named Estranged

This I Love:
AFD:Same as SOD
Lies all of it
UYI Same as SOD
UYI 2 Same as SOD

Prostitute:
AFD:Its So Easy,Out Ta Get me, Brownstone, Paradise City, My Michelle, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy
Lies: All of it
UYI 1: All of it not Coma or November Rain
UYI: All of it not named ,Estranged


Top 10 GNR all time:
1.Estranged
2.Coma
3.Rocket Queen
4.Sweet Child O Mine
5.Welcome To The Jungle
6.November Rain
7.Nightrain
8.Madagascar
9.Prostitute
10.Civil War

I'll say this, the old Guns was not in any way, shape or form a metal band to me.  They were a blues-based hard rock band that kicked a lot of ass with their more aggressive songs, but never, ever sounded truly metallic because of the influences that shaped Izzy and Slash as players.

No one is saying you're a new band hater, D.  But, this talk that something is missing because there aren't many riffs or riff-driven songs is to me built on a faulty premise based on past Guns' work that their songs should have riffs or be based on riffs.  This isn't that band so to me that mindset does not apply.

Ali

[Ali]

riad has a metal riff
shacklers has a groove metal riff
scraped riff is more bluesier.. funkier

Bluesy?  I don't think so.

And AxlsMainMan, you're not getting what I'm saying.  I'm talking about the guitar sound.  All those old school songs have blues-based riffs, "Scraped" does not.

Ali

It's riffs don't exactly scream "metal" though. More like hard-rock.

The songs you listed are all old school GN'R rockers with blues-based riffs.  "Scraped" is not.  The guitars have a metallic sound.  Compared to old school Guns, like the songs you listed, it is more heavy metal-sounding.  I'm not talking about the riffs in "Scraped" on an absolute basis as being true metal, or in comparison to bands like Slayer or Metallica, I'm talking about in comparison to old school GN'R.

Ali

So if it'sblues based it can't be metal?  Listen to some Motorhead or Metallica's 'Ronnie" and you'll hear the absurdity in your arguement.

No, that's not what I said.  Way to twist my words around.  Early Sabbath was still blues-based in sound.  The guitars did not sound truly metallic because they did not remove the element of blues from them.  Bands like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and the NWOBHM did that.

I'm talking about the metallic sound of the guitars in "Scraped" as compared to old school Guns.

Ali

[gilld1]

Ali, did you really have to quote that whole fucking post?

D, how can you leave Paradise City out of a Top 10?

[D]

I love guitar riffs. GNR has some of the greatest guitar riffs of all time, Metallica the same, even Kiss have some kick ass riffs.

I was just pointing out, that the only missing thing for me on CD is those definitive all time great blues based ball busting Riffs, that make you move and u air guitar/hum to.

I love riffs, that I can sing and CD really doesn't have many singable riffs.

That isn't putting down the quality of guitar work, I don't think Axl was going for that this time which is fine, but I am just saying I was hoping for a few of those.

Sing the Scraped riff right now

i seriously doubt anyone can.

we are simply saying, on CD, the guitar is used more in concert with the other instruments to make great music, but outside of the solos, the guitar isn't the absolute MAIN instrument on most of the songs.