What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[rabia]

A few other factors:  in the mainstream, people no longer appreciate technical musicianship.  They don't care about verses, just a catchy chorus.  And they don't appreciate the beauty in music (at least in rock).  Singers who use their upper register are no longer cool

What you need now to be successful in rock is have a catchy chorus with an Eddie Vedder clone singing.  The rest does not matter.  Either that or you're an established band who puts out an album that you've already done numerous better versions of in the past but still get your dick sucked by the drones.  See:  Metallica and AC/DC

i agree with everything you said except for the upper register thing.

i think all the oohing and aahing over adam lambert in American Idol suggests that there is an appetite for that kind of singing. if axl did some show which reached a mass audience (like the VMAS under better circumstances than the last one) and showed off his glorious pipes (like on Sailing), he'll leave a lot of people's mouths hanging open. show the little "rockers" of today how its done and shut their mouths for good.

[Naltav]

That is a damn good point dude. What Milli Vanilli got crucified for,e veryone does now.

As far as I know, there's NOT many acts doing what Milli Vanilli did....

It wasnt a case of them lip syncin' to a playback of themselvs. It wasn't even them singing on their album! 

[D]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

[Naltav]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

[peter7411226]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

Well yeah, but I'm saying they made this problem for themselves in my opinion.

Yeah but you said that illegal downloading isnt the cause of the demise of the music industry. I beg to differ. Its a huge part of the demise. The industry shouldve prepared for this. If anything they should do more to protect there product from being available so freely. But thats the nature of the internet. There really isnt much they can do. There will always be file sharing sites where music will be distributed freely. Not fair to the artist. Now more than ever artists have to rely on touring to make money. Thats why you see members of GNR playing side gigs.

First things first; my original point is that I believe people wouldn't be resorting to downloading if the greedy music industry hadn't used and abused it's customers for so long that they were excited to finally get back at them.

Secondly, you can't be serious with that GN'R remark?

Im serious. Do you honestly think that the other members of GNR ( sans Axl) are well off financially? Just because they are in a band thats big doesnt mean that they are raking in the dough. Like I said before most musicians today rely on touring and merchandise to make money. Im sure the percentage that goes to each member is significantly less than Axls cut. Im sure that in the old days the cuts were more evenly distributed because they all started together and probably signed there first contracts together. Also in terms of album sales, the songwriters on each song are the ones that get paid the most.

[gilld1]

^^Yeah, it's true.  I saw Dizzy panhandling outside of Amoeba Records the last time I was in LA.

[ppbebe]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

[peter7411226]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

See but that was my point. When people illegally download music they take away revenue that otherwise couldve been used to take chances on bands that arent "mainstream" or safe bets. It would allow them to look outside of the box. With labels strapped fundswise of course theyre going to turn to the safe bets to make money.

[russtcb]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

See but that was my point. When people illegally download music they take away revenue that otherwise couldve been used to take chances on bands that arent "mainstream" or safe bets. It would allow them to look outside of the box. With labels strapped fundswise of course theyre going to turn to the safe bets to make money.

So let me make sure I have this correct. You're saying that illegal downloading is what forces Fortus to play with Rihanna?

[faldor]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

It was kind of a big deal when Ashley Simpson was caught lip synching the wrong song on SNL a few years back.  She had a rough go of it for a time, was booed mercilessly at the Orange Bowl during a performance after that.  It hasn't ruined her career like it did Milli Vanilli, but it didn't help.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

It was kind of a big deal when Ashley Simpson was caught lip synching the wrong song on SNL a few years back.  She had a rough go of it for a time, was booed mercilessly at the Orange Bowl during a performance after that.  It hasn't ruined her career like it did Milli Vanilli, but it didn't help.

She didn't really have a career to begin with.

[faldor]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

It was kind of a big deal when Ashley Simpson was caught lip synching the wrong song on SNL a few years back.  She had a rough go of it for a time, was booed mercilessly at the Orange Bowl during a performance after that.  It hasn't ruined her career like it did Milli Vanilli, but it didn't help.

She didn't really have a career to begin with.

Good point.

Although the sad thing is, I think she had too much of a career.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

It was kind of a big deal when Ashley Simpson was caught lip synching the wrong song on SNL a few years back.  She had a rough go of it for a time, was booed mercilessly at the Orange Bowl during a performance after that.  It hasn't ruined her career like it did Milli Vanilli, but it didn't help.

She didn't really have a career to begin with.

Good point.

Although the sad thing is, I think she had too much of a career.

Her sister too.  Although her sister messed up the Cowboys, so I'm happy with that.

People these days don't have any clue what music is about.  All their taste is in their mouth.

[fear the juggalo 2]

you can not compare milli vanilli to anyone else in music. they were lip synching someone elses voices. ashley simpson was lip synching over her own voice. if it came out justin timberlake never sang a song it would be a very big deal.

[Naltav]

yeah but they got crucified when their back track skipped

today no one would bat an eye lash

True!   

It was kind of a big deal when Ashley Simpson was caught lip synching the wrong song on SNL a few years back.  She had a rough go of it for a time, was booed mercilessly at the Orange Bowl during a performance after that.  It hasn't ruined her career like it did Milli Vanilli, but it didn't help.

She didn't really have a career to begin with.

Good point.

Although the sad thing is, I think she had too much of a career.

Ouch!!   

[Naltav]

you can not compare milli vanilli to anyone else in music. they were lip synching someone elses voices. ashley simpson was lip synching over her own voice. if it came out justin timberlake never sang a song it would be a very big deal.

Yeah, that's what put the nail in the Milli Vanilli-coffin....

Lip synching to playback tapes is pretty common, and sometimes they make a fool of themselvs (Ashley Simpson).

But it's not necessarily a career-killer.... Sadly!   

[wight gunner]

I reckon that a line in the sand has to be drawn. For what ever reason CD became a monkey on Axl's back, that's now been dumped. CD is an album that will be appreciated in two phases, or rather has the potential to.

The band need to release fresh music in the style that they can be accepted in there own right. No world tours under the monicer of an album that hasn't been released. Get the album done and a release date so.rted and get the tour done in that order. Old fans who lived the CD years will be there, new fans built upon new music will do as most fans do who come involved into the band at a later day-buy the older stuff.

CD for me represents closure to the past and the opportunity to create new music in the future. Noboby uses the "your more likely to see...(add your own unlikely event) before CD see's the light of day... Don't get me wrong, I love the album, but I love the freedom that Axl can function under more.

[Jdog0830]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

Yeah but most slowly suck the live out of music and destroy it in horific ways like the move 2012

[peter7411226]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

See but that was my point. When people illegally download music they take away revenue that otherwise couldve been used to take chances on bands that arent "mainstream" or safe bets. It would allow them to look outside of the box. With labels strapped fundswise of course theyre going to turn to the safe bets to make money.

So let me make sure I have this correct. You're saying that illegal downloading is what forces Fortus to play with Rihanna?

Money taken away from the band would force them to take side gigs like I said before. Im sure only Axl is set for life in the band. Also Fortus doesnt have any songwriting creidits on CD which means that he gets considerable less than the people who have publishing rights on the album.

[russtcb]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

i hear beatles had to wear the uniform to look clean. jimmy page's said zep was alternative  at the time.
pop idols have been always safe bets and marketable for the industry.

See but that was my point. When people illegally download music they take away revenue that otherwise couldve been used to take chances on bands that arent "mainstream" or safe bets. It would allow them to look outside of the box. With labels strapped fundswise of course theyre going to turn to the safe bets to make money.

So let me make sure I have this correct. You're saying that illegal downloading is what forces Fortus to play with Rihanna?

Money taken away from the band would force them to take side gigs like I said before. Im sure only Axl is set for life in the band. Also Fortus doesnt have any songwriting creidits on CD which means that he gets considerable less than the people who have publishing rights on the album.

Ok. I just wanted to make sure that it's all because of those terrible illegal downloaders. I wanted to be sure that it's not because or choice or the fact that GN'R haven't played live in over two years. Got it.