What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[russtcb]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

[ppbebe]

yes but what I'm implying is that while he didn't speak the media talked shit about him
if a musician has to keep speaking to the media to prevent that, isn't it a threat?
freedom of speech is not liberty of lie.

You make it as if Axl/GNR never did interviews or videos before. Fuck, were any of you around for AFD/LIES/UYI? GNR was everywhere. Videos, radio, interviews,MTV,the list goes on? Were Axl/GNR prostituting themselves then? Being forced out there by big,bad Geffen? FUCK NO! They chose to promote their art that they were proud of.

i don't think your post and what you quoted match with each other.

[peter7411226]

I've been thinking alot about this lately

and have u wondered why over the last decade, there aren't many bands out there that will stand the test of time?

I mean is the music really that bad?

I have often said, the reason most music doesn't last is just overexposure.

After seeing Fred Durst for the 200th time, people got sick of him

back in the 80's, early 90's, u had the music,Interviews,MTV/videos and concerts

that was it. So u were left with this mystery of what they were like or what they were doing and there was so much anticipation

These days, there is no excitement, no mystery.. every musician seems like an average joe, no body is larger than life like back in the day.

I think the less u see/hear someone famous the better for the mystique and for the longevity

now Axl can't be excused for no video etc but when u sit back and think of all the overexposed famous people and how sick u get of them, isn't a small part of u happy that Axl is kind of the last of the dying old school breed?

There is kind of a greatness and brilliance in not Twittering and not being in the paparazzi etc.

I disagree with the part about Fred Durst. I think his music just wasnt memorable. Great music tends to stand the test of time. I dont think Limp Bizkit has what you would call great music. Guns does have great music. Thats why they are a legendary band. Fred Durst's overexposure just exposed that his music wasnt that great.

[peter7411226]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

[D]

my point with Limp Bizkit is, Fred seemed like a really cool, kick ass frontman etc

the more he talked and the more he was in the public eye, u discovered what a douche he really was and he turned a lot of fans off with his attitude etc.

Take Axl for instance

when he does speak or when he does do an interview. It is an EVENT. U are excited and hang on every word he says.

If someone gives 2 thousand interviews a year, u really don't care as much.

for instance, I consider Bon Jovi and Prince the same way I do GNR but I don't post on BJ or Prince forums


There is an intrigue with Axl that makes it more meaningful to post about and even wait on.

he is the only guy who can tell his audience to "Shut The Fuck Up" so he can talk for 10 minutes and they do.

[russtcb]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

[peter7411226]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

[russtcb]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

Well yeah, but I'm saying they made this problem for themselves in my opinion.

[BKinNYC]

I think the less u see/hear someone famous the better for the mystique and for the longevity

now Axl can't be excused for no video etc but when u sit back and think of all the overexposed famous people and how sick u get of them, isn't a small part of u happy that Axl is kind of the last of the dying old school breed?

There is kind of a greatness and brilliance in not Twittering and not being in the paparazzi etc.

I have to somewhat disagree with this part.  For many people, (and to many kids), being out there in the public eye makes fans love you more.  For as many examples of people that were overexposed, I can give you the same amount who rocketed in popularity because they knew how to use the media.  

There's a fine line being mysterious and being forgotten.  

Axl released CD, and had a couple interviews on forums, in Billboard etc.  What happened after that?  I didn't exactly hear the public banging down the door saying "Oh, come back on tour!  They're ready to conquer the world again!"  The fact is that the average music fan doesn't know or could care less what's happening with Gn'R, or Axl.  In this media day and age, it's out of sight, out of mind.  

[Buddha_Master]

I would like to think that in the future, the kids, will discover GNR and Chinese Democracy much in the way kids today are discovering The Beatles, Zepplin, Black Sabbath, the Doors and Hendrix.

In the future, it will be more about the music, and not so much the bullshit. Then Chinese Democracy will be appreciated as it deserves.

[peter7411226]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

Well yeah, but I'm saying they made this problem for themselves in my opinion.

Yeah but you said that illegal downloading isnt the cause of the demise of the music industry. I beg to differ. Its a huge part of the demise. The industry shouldve prepared for this. If anything they should do more to protect there product from being available so freely. But thats the nature of the internet. There really isnt much they can do. There will always be file sharing sites where music will be distributed freely. Not fair to the artist. Now more than ever artists have to rely on touring to make money. Thats why you see members of GNR playing side gigs.

[D]

My point is,all the bands that i LOVE are from a time where they weren't plastered all over the place.

I Remember after Bon Jovi did New Jersey and took that long ass break *was only a couple years but god damn it felt like an eternity. There was so much mystery on what they were doing, were they broken up etc and when u finallygot that pieceof news they were doing new album, it was just an awesome feeling. The only way u heard from bands was through Music,interviews which were usually just a few magazines and I don't know, there was just something magical about them because u didn't know every single small detail about them.

Same with Axl, I remember reading those "I Axl" interviews in RIP magazine when I was a kid and I was so intrigued by him and the thing is, he didn't over do it, he didn't get overexposed and I think the key is always leaving people wanting more.Only way i heard about UYI were through my brother's older friends. they had me so hyped I remember buying UYI2 and just listening over and over.part of the greatness was the anticipation etc.

that was when musicians spoke through their music. CD is Axl telling u what happened the last 12 years.

Back then, where there was less coverage, the burn out factor didn't hit u as easy like it does today when people are every where doing everything.


Downloading hurt music. I'm not gonna lie but it isn't the only thing that killed music. Labels putting out shitty carbon copy bands, Itunes killed the music industry way more than downloading.

Look at the rapper FLo Rida. His last two singles have gotten over 2 million downloads APIECE. his albums barely went Gold.

Without Itunes and those single DL's. his albums go well over double platinum.

This is why Nickelback can still sell 6 million in the US. they release so many singles, people say fuck it and buy the whole thing. they realize the time they pay for 6 singles, they could throw in a few more dollars and buy the whole thing.

[Bodhi]

This is why Nickelback can still sell 6 million in the US. they release so many singles, people say fuck it and buy the whole thing. they realize the time they pay for 6 singles, they could throw in a few more dollars and buy the whole thing.

Nickelback are a pop band..thats why they sell so many records.

[russtcb]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

Well yeah, but I'm saying they made this problem for themselves in my opinion.

Yeah but you said that illegal downloading isnt the cause of the demise of the music industry. I beg to differ. Its a huge part of the demise. The industry shouldve prepared for this. If anything they should do more to protect there product from being available so freely. But thats the nature of the internet. There really isnt much they can do. There will always be file sharing sites where music will be distributed freely. Not fair to the artist. Now more than ever artists have to rely on touring to make money. Thats why you see members of GNR playing side gigs.

First things first; my original point is that I believe people wouldn't be resorting to downloading if the greedy music industry hadn't used and abused it's customers for so long that they were excited to finally get back at them.

Secondly, you can't be serious with that GN'R remark?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

Did you read the part where I said the music industry made its bed and now it's lying in it? I firmly believe that if the music industry hadn't set pricing way too high, stopped trying to rip consumers off at every turn and really focused on giving customers what they pay for, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm simply saying that it isn't the cause of the demise of the music industry. I've been collecting music my whole life. Of the thousands of cassettes, CDs, LPs, hell even 8-tracks I've collected, I've paid for it all. I used to buy tons and tons of music every year. I don't anymore and it's not because of illegal downloading. It's because there's just nothing that interests me out there. I'm not interested in Daughtry, Hinder or any of the other main stream crap they try to ram down my throat.

I respectfully disagree. If a ton of people illegally download music from a certain artist lets say GNR it take money away from the label and the artist. Thats money that can be going into investing or taking chances in bands that are out of the mainstream. The way it is right now with labels losing a ton of money because of illegal downloading, labels will only sign people they feel they can market ( you used Daughtry, Hinder)....people they feel are safe bets. A band like GNR would never get signed today. Labels with there limited funding would take chances with someone more mainstream, clean image, and someone they could market into the pop world too. Look im not defending labels. Ive had problems with them but its a business.

Well yeah, but I'm saying they made this problem for themselves in my opinion.

Yeah but you said that illegal downloading isnt the cause of the demise of the music industry. I beg to differ. Its a huge part of the demise. The industry shouldve prepared for this. If anything they should do more to protect there product from being available so freely. But thats the nature of the internet. There really isnt much they can do. There will always be file sharing sites where music will be distributed freely. Not fair to the artist. Now more than ever artists have to rely on touring to make money. Thats why you see members of GNR playing side gigs.

First things first; my original point is that I believe people wouldn't be resorting to downloading if the greedy music industry hadn't used and abused it's customers for so long that they were excited to finally get back at them.

Secondly, you can't be serious with that GN'R remark?

Musicians have to eat too. 

[Naltav]

D, I think that after only a decade it's a little early to say who will and who will not stand the test of time.  Only (a good deal more) time will tell.  There was a lot of absolute crap in the eighties, we just remember the memorable stuff.

true but when u heard the great bands that are still around today, u knew they were great then

no Metallica,GNR,Chili's Bon Jovi,U2, Prince, Michael Jackson,Madonna coming out of this lot of music


think of the great bands before the 80's.

what has changed?

I refuse to believe DL has completely destroyed everything.

I firmly believe downloading has killed nothing except maybe the number of jobs being held by idiots in the music industry who never should've been there in the first place.

The music industry made it's own bed and now it's lying in it. They haven't learned their lesson and it doesn't seem like they're going to anytime soon. Just look at the way CD was mishandled every step of the way. It is (IMO) one of the best CDs I've ever heard and yet they managed to tank it in the US at least.

I disagree. As an artist I gotta say that free downloading takes money out of our pockets. Not all of us are fortunate to be able to sign exclusive contracts with major store chains. The rest of us rely on album sales or legal downloads as well as touring for revenue. We make music because it is our passion but it is also our work. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to make a living off of this. Most artists arent that lucky. When someone downloads something for free that we created it is stealing. Imagine a painter making a painting and having it stolen. Also, It does take jobs away from the music industry. But explain to me why they are idiots who shouldnt have been there in the first place? You steal from a company and theyre profits drop which means they have to cut costs meaning layoffs. Do I think illegal downloading hurt sales for CD? Absolutely. Im sure many people felt they already had most tracks so why buy it.

It's not odd that we here on the board are having different opinions on the subject of dowloading music from the internet, either paid for, free or illegal. Because the music buisness itself (and they're the professionals) haven't figured out what to do or how to do it yet....

Things are startin' slowly to transform to the next thing though.... because something new IS and HAS to come along. The old buisness-model of the music industry is dead, no matter if you're a "fan" of it or not (and believe me, I'm a fan of CD's and vinyls, I worked and managed a recordstore for 10 years). And things are slowly starting to pop up.

I don't know if it's huge in the US yet, but here in Europe (at least in scandinavia) we are "all" into Spotify. Which streams music from all the major labels. The major labels are actually some of the investors putting money into that company. And it's either free (with commercial interuptions every 4 or 5 songs) or you can pay about 10? a month for NO commercials. And the money that they make from that is then filtered down to the artist and publishing and so on and so on..... A few of the major bands (metallica and RHCP) doesn't quite embrace it yet, but I guess that's just a matter of time.

And the layout is almost like iTunes. You can search by artist, song or album. You can even search by label for those of you who have a favourite label. You can make your own playlist, which you then again can send as a link to a friend who you think should like those songs or bands.

When friends of mine are having parties, the main focus for music is the laptop in the corner with the bad-ass speakers. You got "every" song ever created at your disposal. It's fuckin great! No more lame ass buddy who doesn't have Chinese Democracy in his collection. IT'S RIGHT THERE!!! EVERYTHING IS RIGHT THERE!!   

If Spotify is or isn't a part of the new buisness-model of the industry, it's definitely gonna be something very close to that! After I started to use Spotify, I find myself downloading less and less from piratebay or other sites like that. It's my new way of discovering new music! 
 
Metallica, Madonna, Guns N' Roses, The Beatles and all the other major acts out there might have to settle for making 8 million dollars a year instead making 80 million dollars a year, but hey, they'll adabt!   

[BKinNYC]

Some interesting posts in this thread.  Really makes you think.

Anyway - in my opinion, downloading had a PART in killing music as we know it, but part of it lies with the record industry, too.  I might be in the minority, but I still love buying CD's/vinyl, and have no interest in ipods, mp3's etc.  Unfortunately, most CD's are STILL like 18 bucks apiece.  Remember a few years back when the record industry was sued, and the judgement was that they had to lower their prices for CD's?  That lasted like 2 months, and the prices shot back up.

If they kept CD's at like 10 bucks, more people (especially older 36 year olds like myself!) might be willing to take a chance on more CD's again.  But I'm not dropping 20 bucks to "see" if I like a new band.  And itunes is useless to me.

[GNR4L]

I don't think downloading is the problem.  Its the music industry finding these pretty faces no talent acts and having them market to little kids who will accept it.  If the music industry today was like it was back in the late 80's early 90's CD would be a success.  I mean Milli n Vinilli today wouldn't of had the repercussions today back when they got caught lip syncing so the whole Music industry has done a 180.  Guns N' Roses will stand the test of time and hopefully CD will catch on like it did like AFD.

[D]

That is a damn good point dude. What Milli Vanilli got crucified for,e veryone does now.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

A few other factors:  in the mainstream, people no longer appreciate technical musicianship.  They don't care about verses, just a catchy chorus.  And they don't appreciate the beauty in music (at least in rock).  Singers who use their upper register are no longer cool

What you need now to be successful in rock is have a catchy chorus with an Eddie Vedder clone singing.  The rest does not matter.  Either that or you're an established band who puts out an album that you've already done numerous better versions of in the past but still get your dick sucked by the drones.  See:  Metallica and AC/DC