What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[The Prez]

It's personal opinions, but some of you only object to the positive opinions.
/jarmo

That's indeed very correct. Unfortunately this is typical human behaviour. It' harder to construct than breaking things down (focussing on the negative part)... Without people knowing it, a lot of them feel better when they see others failing in what they have done...

[D]

an album doesn't have to dominate to be a masterpiece

artistically it can be a masterpiece even if it tanks commercially.

[The Prez]

Concerning my neg karma; that was indeed for insulting others on the forum but not because I didn't had any arguments left, just because I liked it to insult those fuckers on that moment for what they have said...  
Doesn't Axl also sometimes insult people on stage? So why can't we?  

I deserved already some positive points in the meantime but it seems the mods only focussing themselves on the negative part    

Anyhow, this has nothing to do with this thread. Skip this post.  

[jarmo]

Don't those posts get deleted?  Or members banned?

Members get banned for breaking our rules.

It's not my fault it's always the "non fanboys" who can't accept that a fan site isn't against their "favorite" band and acts like it should be.

It's personal opinions, but some of you only object to the positive opinions.
/jarmo

That's indeed very correct. Unfortunately this is typical human behaviour. It' harder to construct than breaking things down (focussing on the negative part)... Without people knowing it, a lot of them feel better when they see others failing in what they have done...

Of course. Ask a GN'R fan to be constructive and you'll get no reaction.

But as soon as there's a way to whine and bash something, they'll be there ASAP! Like a bunch of flies drawn to shit they flock to threads where they can express "their honest opinion" and "the truth".

an album doesn't have to dominate to be a masterpiece

artistically it can be a masterpiece even if it tanks commercially.

Correct.

Like in this way: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1979





/jarmo

[D]

I think this album isn't accepted by some due to the leaks and expectation

I know some people who were upset that CD contained 9 songs or so they had already heard which isn't the band's fault.


The leaks definitely hurt this album for me, cause as I said, had i heard this album brand new from start to finish, i can't imagine how long it would've stayed in my CD player.

[LunsJail]

The leaks definitely hurt this album for me, cause as I said, had i heard this album brand new from start to finish, i can't imagine how long it would've stayed in my CD player.

I can echo that sentiment. I basically heard most of the album over the course of about 8 years. How do you properly judge a 14 course meal when you had the appetizer and the desert 8 years apart? And all the other courses spread somewhere in between.

But I've got Chinese Democracy back in my CD player after several months on the shelf and I gotta say that it's damn brilliant. Plus it just simply sounds better coming out of the speakers than most other stuff out there.

[D]

I still think Madagascar is my favorite song

I was running yesterday and I was in my hardest stretch and I listened to Madagascar back to back and I swear that song fucking moves me and makes me feel something very incredible and deep inside that not many songs do.

[fear the juggalo 2]

unfortunately because of the leaks people drew a opinion about the cd before it came out. i cant even tell u how many times i heard people including the radio say it sounds outdated. to me thats b.s, that was once again people smearing cd before it every had a chance. when i ask these people, whats so outdated about it, i get the same response. those songs were written so long ago. and? so i guess that makes everything outdated  sounding then. there's bands i dont like for example ac/dc, but i would never talk bad about them because i respect what they've achieved. they are just not my cup of tea. the band i work for gets hated on, shit on for no reason. it actually is funny to us. but back to the point, i believe on the radio these dj's are very close minded, so they couldnt wait to shit on cd, unfortunately they probably never listened to it.

[Six Strings]

Not to offend anyone, but I'm fuckin' tired with everything that goes around. Every single fuckin' topic or issue becomes to an Axl vs The Rest or who's right or who's wrong at some movement of somebody. I can say that I read every single day the new posts and I'm a HUGE fan of the band for quite a long time and it's always the same...  It is just boring in a Chinese Democracy section to read how bad was the album and how without Slash it doesn't work and in the Velvet Revolver section to read how Velvet Revolver sucks and Axl is the GOD of everything that goes around music. I'm frustrated in lots of the things that are happening but it is just the way it is.

Sorry for the offtopic, I'm just thinking that this is the place to leave my feelings in. It is 5 AM and it's The Garden around...


   

[peter7411226]

unfortunately because of the leaks people drew a opinion about the cd before it came out. i cant even tell u how many times i heard people including the radio say it sounds outdated. to me thats b.s, that was once again people smearing cd before it every had a chance. when i ask these people, whats so outdated about it, i get the same response. those songs were written so long ago. and? so i guess that makes everything outdated  sounding then. there's bands i dont like for example ac/dc, but i would never talk bad about them because i respect what they've achieved. they are just not my cup of tea. the band i work for gets hated on, shit on for no reason. it actually is funny to us. but back to the point, i believe on the radio these dj's are very close minded, so they couldnt wait to shit on cd, unfortunately they probably never listened to it.

I agree to an extent with your point. But its naive to think that thats the reason why it didnt sell as well as expected. This album had more built in promotion than any album other album I could ever recall. Imagine a legengary band releasing there first new material in 15 years. The album was legendary before it came out. Do I think the leaks hurt it? Absolutely. People probably felt they had most of the songs so why buy the album? I honestly feel that the label wanted to rid themselves of this album and pretty much in the end rushed the release without any real plans in place to market it. Having said that I feel that if the band truly believes in there product they should be out promoting it. All sides are to blame in my OPINION. Like ive said before, you get what you give.

[Limulus]

some people fail to understand that this cd is not accepted worldwide on a "Thriller" or "AFD"-level yet.

I don't think anybody claimed it to either.

The problem is that some (fans) have issues with (other) fans who think it's above good, great or even a masterpiece.

I don't see those of you who do have that kind of issues having problems with all those who claim it sucks.

It's personal opinions, but some of you only object to the positive opinions. The whole fanboy shit must be the new red scare.....

/jarmo

yeah, but there also have been several posts about the ultimate comeback, world domination and cd blowing everything else away changing the whole world etc. but nothing like that has been achieved and most likely never will. out of the name of the topic i'd rather stick this topic more into this fanboy ( ) direction, ya know? more like "why is cd not a masterpiece to you when it clearly is to me?" from that standpoint answers like "its just only an average to good album" shouldnt be too unexpected to come out.

[jarmo]

more like "why is cd not a masterpiece to you when it clearly is to me?" from that standpoint answers like "its just only an average to good album" shouldnt be too unexpected to come out.

Well it is.

I must be naive to think that other GN'R fans share my feelings about GN'R's music. GN'R hasn't released an average album in my opinion!

If GN'R were releasing average music, I wouldn't be a GN'R fan. It's that easy. I'm a fan of bands/artists who put out music that speaks to me. Music that's above the rest.

There's plenty of bands/artists who release average music and I don't call myself a fan of them. More like a casual listener who doesn't dislike their stuff.


I've realized that there are fans and then there are fans. People who are quick to point out how big fans they are of the band, but then are also quick to point out how many songs they don't like at all (and/or how they don't like a whole lot about the band).

I understand that people have different tastes and all that. So don't bother making this yet another "how dare you say I'm not a fan" thing.

It does seem like people have a very different idea of what a fan of a certain band means. Maybe there's a secret formula I'm not aware of.
Like: IF awesomeAmount > 0.50 THEN you=fan.






/jarmo

[freddiebrph]

more like "why is cd not a masterpiece to you when it clearly is to me?" from that standpoint answers like "its just only an average to good album" shouldnt be too unexpected to come out.

Well it is.

I must be naive to think that other GN'R fans share my feelings about GN'R's music. GN'R hasn't released an average album in my opinion!

If GN'R were releasing average music, I wouldn't be a GN'R fan. It's that easy. I'm a fan of bands/artists who put out music that speaks to me. Music that's above the rest.

There's plenty of bands/artists who release average music and I don't call myself a fan of them. More like a casual listener who doesn't dislike their stuff.


I've realized that there are fans and then there are fans. People who are quick to point out how big fans they are of the band, but then are also quick to point out how many songs they don't like at all (and/or how they don't like a whole lot about the band).

I understand that people have different tastes and all that. So don't bother making this yet another "how dare you say I'm not a fan" thing.

It does seem like people have a very different idea of what a fan of a certain band means. Maybe there's a secret formula I'm not aware of.
Like: IF awesomeAmount > 0.50 THEN you=fan.






/jarmo

nope, no secret formula.  If you are a fan, that gives you a reason to love the music, love or hate how certain things occur, question everything!  If we were not all fans, we would not care

[IKnowWhereIAM]

Secret Formula:
Find the square root of your lifetime retail expediture on band related paraphenelia rounded to the nearest 10th, divided by the difference between the number of GnR concerts that have been held within 300 miles of your location and the number you have attended (minimum shall be 1), minus the difference between the year you first heard GnR and 1985...I suggest that this formula shall scientifically determine your fan-grade.  If you are 50+ you already know the secret handshake, own a 'victory or death' beacon (ala Batman), and have Axl's hotline number.  100+ the 'Fargin Bastydges' secretly perform at your birthday party each year.  

nope, no secret formula.  If you are a fan, that gives you a reason to love the music, love or hate how certain things occur, question everything!  If we were not all fans, we would not care

I think we miss a serious distinction when we are that inclusive...I believe many on this board are 'former-fans' who no longer love the music for reasons - other than the music, and looooooooove to let us all know about it.

[fear the juggalo 2]

i agree the built in promotion was huge, but at the same time the media would make it very clear that it was axl rose & not guns n roses. when ever they spoke about cd they refer  to why didnt axl do this, or what took axl so long. never once did i hear the media say this band worked there asses off, or they have a unique sound in that song. no it was always what a strange song by axl. & i know he will get a majority of the topics, but at the same time give the rest of the band some credit. they never gave it a chance, just kept dismissing it. i remember asking nicole alverez at kroq why they wouldn't play better, & her response was it a. it doesn't fit our format , b. i think it sucks, & c. if slash int in the group its not guns n roses, then she hung up on me. also at the inland invasion, they made a big deal how axl wasn't  there on time it took them forever to come out & play, which was b.s. axl got there at 6pm. alice in chains came on late & ran over. they had problems putting guns stage together, when everything was set guns came out 14min later. thats what i mean, with negative outlooks like that. that did not help cd at all. & as far as promotion & the tour we have no clue what goes on at all. it's easy to point fingers. so everyone that says axl isnt doing anything, honestly none of us have a clue what he does & doesn't do.

[otgm]

A fan can't say it's the greatest album?

Why not?

Please explain....


Funny how those who are on "Axl's side" are "fanboys". Just because you look at all the facts and then decide that his version of the events are way more plausible than anybody else's. Nice try to ridicule us.




/jarmo

That's the most interesting part... with all the known facts laid down on the table you still  believe that Axl was right? Makes me wonder that how hard did you have to convince yourself to believe it.

[jarmo]

It's common sense to me. I tend to put way less value in what unreliable people who change their stories say.

 



/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

I think we miss a serious distinction when we are that inclusive...I believe many on this board are 'former-fans' who no longer love the music for reasons - other than the music, and looooooooove to let us all know about it.

exactly, those people should just jump off a bridge or at least find another site.

[ppbebe]

no problem with fanboys and girls. I never hate to see people showing their love for anyone/anything. Much pleasanter than seeing hatred. It would be nice if no fanboy of ex guys/other bands/acts pretended to be an objective fan when it comes to cd.

[ppbebe]

because of another thread @ deadhorse section i found this interesting article at wiki regarding a masterpiece.

Upon release, Sgt. Pepper received both popular and critical acclaim. Various reviews appearing in the mainstream press and trade publications throughout June 1967, immediately after the album's release, were generally positive. In The Times prominent critic Kenneth Tynan described Sgt. Pepper as "a decisive moment in the history of Western civilization". Others including Richard Poirier, and Geoffrey Stokes were similarly expansive in their praise, Stokes noting, "listening to the Sgt. Pepper album one thinks not simply of the history of popular music but the history of this century."

One notable critic who did not like the album was Richard Goldstein, a critic for The New York Times, who wrote, "Like an over-attended child, "Sergeant Pepper" is spoiled. It reeks of horns and harps, harmonica quartets, assorted animal noises, and a 41-piece orchestra", and added that it was an "album of special effects, dazzling but ultimately fraudulent" . On the other hand, Goldstein called "A Day in the Life" "a deadly earnest excursion in emotive music with a chilling lyric".


sounds familiar, huh?