What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[jemin]

I'm talking about the exact same way this album was made.  No changes whatsoever.  I know you understand exactly what I am saying but feel the need to protect the album/artist.  I am not saying it's a shitty album, I'm saying it's a good album.  But for the people who think it's a masterpiece.........

My point is, is that it is beloved by the fans and fanboys here because it is Axl/GNR.  That's fine, but admit it.  Don't try and make it out to be a masterpiece when it's just a good album (in my opinion) just because it's Axl. 

And Thriller is a classic, but I believe that everyone would have loved it regardless as long as it was the exact same song/lyrics/music/more importantly video!

A fan is someone who supports and follows whoever/whatever it is they like.  Fanboys are totally biased and see no wrong in anything whoever/whatever they are following is doing.  Axl could shit on a piece of bread and tell a fanboy that it was a philly cheesesteak, they would eat it and tell you it was the best tasting sandwich ever.

That is the craziest shit I've ever read.

There wouldn't have been a thriller without MJ cause he wrote Beat It, Billie Jean and a few of the the other smashes on that album.

so NO, without his talent, songwriting, vocal prowess, dancing ability and visionary ability to create those videos etc, that album would have never existed.


That was one of the strangest analogies I think I've read on the internet.

He wrote 3 songs on that album co wrote 1 more with McCartney.  1 song you probably never heard of unless you're a fan of MJ, most likely the same with the song he cowrote with McCartney.  His biggest hit wasn't one of them.  My point was that if someone had made that same album it would have took off.  I'm not sure the same could be said for CD.  I'm not sure if this part of the discussion is coming across correctly though.

like Jarmo said about the wife thing.......

Axl appeals to me. His vocals,melodies, the way he puts a song together. I love everything about his musical ability so yeah, maybe we do rate something a 10 that the rest of the world may call an 8. but that is why we are posting on a GNR message forum, and other people aren't.

You just made my point.  Being a masterpiece here among fans does not make it one to everyone else.

[jemin]

I'm talking about the exact same way this album was made.  No changes whatsoever.  I know you understand exactly what I am saying but feel the need to protect the album/artist.  I am not saying it's a shitty album, I'm saying it's a good album.  But for the people who think it's a masterpiece.........

My point is, is that it is beloved by the fans and fanboys here because it is Axl/GNR.  That's fine, but admit it.  Don't try and make it out to be a masterpiece when it's just a good album (in my opinion) just because it's Axl. 

And Thriller is a classic, but I believe that everyone would have loved it regardless as long as it was the exact same song/lyrics/music/more importantly video!

A fan is someone who supports and follows whoever/whatever it is they like.  Fanboys are totally biased and see no wrong in anything whoever/whatever they are following is doing.  Axl could shit on a piece of bread and tell a fanboy that it was a philly cheesesteak, they would eat it and tell you it was the best tasting sandwich ever.

This has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. Are you serious? Michael Jackson is the whole reason Thriller is a classic. He wrote the hit songs on it, he had the voice, the moves, the personality, the aura. To think that album could have been created by someone else is utterly ridicilous. Michael Jackson makes Thriller the great album that it is, just like Axl makes Chinese Democracy the great album that it is.

He wrote 2 hit songs on it.

[russtcb]

If someone else had released this record would it still be that great?

No one else could make this record and that's kinda the point.

[jemin]

If someone else had released this record would it still be that great?

No one else could make this record and that's kinda the point.

I know no one could but if someone else did.

I can't seem to articulate that point correctly so I guess I'll drop it.

[norway]

When Buckethead was in the band, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. now he is gone, maybe 10 percent of the GNR fanbase give a shit about him now,

Thats a very narrowminded view.
GunsN'Roses has always had a very wide specter of fans due to the mix of styles and diversity in musicians.

Buckethead is probably the most successful guitarist in the world right now, and he wears a fucking bucket on his head.

[The Catcher]

If someone else had released this record would it still be that great?

No one else could make this record and that's kinda the point.

I know no one could but if someone else did.

I can't seem to articulate that point correctly so I guess I'll drop it.

No wonder, since that argument is completely pointless to begin with.

[jemin]

What I'm saying is that if this was by any other artist would you feel the same way?

[norway]

CD was great, doomed to loose.

I doubted long that the first cd would write history due to Axl saying it would still be very much like the old stuff. Time.

What I'm saying is that if this was by any other artist would you feel the same way?

I'm looking forward to hearing him sing on DJ Ashbas songs, or write with him.

[jemin]

CD was great, doomed to loose.

I doubted long that the first cd would write history due to Axl saying it would still be very much like the old stuff. Time.

What I'm saying is that if this was by any other artist would you feel the same way?

I'm looking forward to hearing him sing on DJ Ashbas songs, or write with him.

I'm looking forward to whatever he does.  Don't really know much about Ashba but looks like I'll be adding a few more CD's to the stack if Sixx AM and Beautiful Creatures is any good.

[greekmule]

months ago i was wondering (and posted it here) whether CD is actually that good or whether my mind (subconsciously due to my love for Axl, the long waiting etc) wants it to sound that good (an ego defense of some sort). Months later I can now admit that my excitement and my fear of disappointment made me think the album was a classic when it was released. Unfortunately now I know this is not the case. CD is a good album but not the masterpiece I thought it was. You know how some albums grow on you? CD for me is the exact opposite.

However, I still believe it is a good album (still better than 95% of the albums that get released nowadays) and a bold move from Axl's part.
 

[jacdaniel]

Have to say, i like CD myself.  There are some really good songs on there but i didnt really enjoy the guitar playing.  Not enough big riffs and generally not guitar driven overall.   but I find it weird when people call it a "masterpiece" and say its a "miracle".

Its just rock n roll guys!

[D]

sorry to go off topic but "Thriller" was the only song MJ didn't have a hand in writing

he wrote Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature......

no idea what u are talking about.

[jemin]

sorry to go off topic but "Thriller" was the only song MJ didn't have a hand in writing

he wrote Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature......

no idea what u are talking about.

No, he wrote Beat It, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something, and cowrote The Girl Is Mine.

[Voodoochild]

This is ridiculous. Michael and Thriller was a mix of natural born talent in several levels PLUS the right moment, not only about songwriting. Even Michael himself couldn't replicate it, but he will always be remembered by its monumental sucess. If Justin Timberlake would have born years before and released Thriller, it wouldn't still be the same because he's white (yeah, that was a cross between the markets back then) and would never have such videos or dancing.

It wouldn't be the same even if Jackson 5 would have released it, because it wouldn't be produced in that way.

And hell, why its so hard to get that people actually loved Chinese for what it is, not only because its name or Axl? I mean, Axl and Bach tracks in his album were great, but nowere as good for me. Here you are, just something to prove that I don't eat every shit Axl does just for the sake of it.

Have to say, i like CD myself.  There are some really good songs on there but i didnt really enjoy the guitar playing.  Not enough big riffs and generally not guitar driven overall.   but I find it weird when people call it a "masterpiece" and say its a "miracle".

Its just rock n roll guys!

Really? 

You know how some albums grow on you? CD for me is the exact opposite.

It happened the exact opposite to several people I know.

[D]

sorry to go off topic but "Thriller" was the only song MJ didn't have a hand in writing

he wrote Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature......

no idea what u are talking about.

No, he wrote Beat It, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something, and cowrote The Girl Is Mine.

U are right

but still 4 out of the 9 and 3 of those are his biggest hits ever.

Sure Jackson replicated that Voodoo

His next album Bad actually had more top tens than Thriller.



CD isn't a huge phenomenon because it is a "fan" album. none of the songs have huge crossover appeal etc because the songs are complex and not easily digestible. that is a bad mix in today's microwave society.

[jemin]

sorry to go off topic but "Thriller" was the only song MJ didn't have a hand in writing

he wrote Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature......

no idea what u are talking about.

No, he wrote Beat It, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something, and cowrote The Girl Is Mine.

U are right

but still 4 out of the 9 and 3 of those are his biggest hits ever.

Sure Jackson replicated that Voodoo

His next album Bad actually had more top tens than Thriller.



CD isn't a huge phenomenon because it is a "fan" album. none of the songs have huge crossover appeal etc because the songs are complex and not easily digestible. that is a bad mix in today's microwave society.

Again that's my point.  I never said the record sucked.  I got sucked into "if you don't think it's the greatest, you must hate it" attitude.  Hell they almost had me convinced that I didn't like it!!   

[jarmo]

Why the fuck would you even speak about my wife.  What the fuck is wrong with you?  That is the stupidest fucking thing to fucking say and has no bearing on the conversation whatsoever.  Next time you speak keep any mentions of my wife out of your mouth.

Just to try to show you how fucking stupid your point is!

It has a lot to do with what you say. It's an analogy.

So since you keep asking that about CD, why not take that same theme a bit further?

Would you love pepperoni pizza if it was a ham pizza?

 

I never said that my opinion was even right.  Read back a few posts explaining the opinions and assholes.  Admit (not you personally but some should) that the main reason that you (fanboys not you personally) think it's great is because it's Axl.

Are we talking about AFD, UYI or what now?

There you go being a jackass again.  I'm not trying to prove/discredit anything.  I never said they weren't that good.  All of them being great is quite a stretch, again,  in my opinion.  I never said that everyone else had to share the same opinion as me.  What the fuck are you babbling about.

Insults....

You were the one who got all upset and wanted us to admit that we don't like the album itself, we only like Axl.

That's fucking stupid. Because no one has ever made that same kind of "accusations" about the old albums. Wonder why.

Why don't you admit that the opposite is possible? A lot more people might hate it because it's Axl!

The premise of the original post was that CD was the one of the best if not the best album recently and was wondering why everyone else besides us (you) ignored it.  My point being is that maybe it's not as good as everyone here makes it out to be.  Maybe it just is a good album and not the best.

And I said, maybe it is the best for some. They're entitled to their opinion.

Maybe people actually prefer the songs on the album compared to what's on the radio!



Another thing. Is it bad to like bands for what makes them stand out?

For example, if you remove Axl from the band equation, GN'R loses one thing that makes them stand out.

So your whole "would you love it without Axl on it?" thing is a way to generalize. It's like, if all the bands were the same and made the same kind of music, would you love this band compared to that band....

But they're not. And Axl is a big reason for GN'R's success, whether you like it or not.

Just like some are more prone to watch a movie starring their favorite actor, obviously music fans are more interested in hearing a new album by their favorite artists than somebody they don't care about. Is that bad? It that being a fanboy?

A very good album!!!!!

Awesome. A very good album that you would think the same of if it was made by anyone because you're not one of those fanboys! Hell yeah!






/jarmo

[freddiebrph]

Why the fuck would you even speak about my wife.  What the fuck is wrong with you?  That is the stupidest fucking thing to fucking say and has no bearing on the conversation whatsoever.  Next time you speak keep any mentions of my wife out of your mouth.

Just to try to show you how fucking stupid your point is!

It has a lot to do with what you say. It's an analogy.

So since you keep asking that about CD, why not take that same theme a bit further?

Would you love pepperoni pizza if it was a ham pizza?

 

I never said that my opinion was even right.  Read back a few posts explaining the opinions and assholes.  Admit (not you personally but some should) that the main reason that you (fanboys not you personally) think it's great is because it's Axl.

Are we talking about AFD, UYI or what now?

There you go being a jackass again.  I'm not trying to prove/discredit anything.  I never said they weren't that good.  All of them being great is quite a stretch, again,  in my opinion.  I never said that everyone else had to share the same opinion as me.  What the fuck are you babbling about.

Insults....

You were the one who got all upset and wanted us to admit that we don't like the album itself, we only like Axl.

That's fucking stupid. Because no one has ever made that same kind of "accusations" about the old albums. Wonder why.

Why don't you admit that the opposite is possible? A lot more people might hate it because it's Axl!

The premise of the original post was that CD was the one of the best if not the best album recently and was wondering why everyone else besides us (you) ignored it.  My point being is that maybe it's not as good as everyone here makes it out to be.  Maybe it just is a good album and not the best.

And I said, maybe it is the best for some. They're entitled to their opinion.

Maybe people actually prefer the songs on the album compared to what's on the radio!



Another thing. Is it bad to like bands for what makes them stand out?

For example, if you remove Axl from the band equation, GN'R loses one thing that makes them stand out.

So your whole "would you love it without Axl on it?" thing is a way to generalize. It's like, if all the bands were the same and made the same kind of music, would you love this band compared to that band....

But they're not. And Axl is a big reason for GN'R's success, whether you like it or not.

Just like some are more prone to watch a movie starring their favorite actor, obviously music fans are more interested in hearing a new album by their favorite artists than somebody they don't care about. Is that bad? It that being a fanboy?

A very good album!!!!!

Awesome. A very good album that you would think the same of if it was made by anyone because you're not one of those fanboys! Hell yeah!






/jarmo

fanboy: Axl is the best, this album is the best, everyone else is wrong and axl ios ALWAYS right, stupid slash, and duff, they are the reasons the band broke up, axl really wants to tour, promote, and release music, but its everyone else that is holding him back, poor Axl, the world wanted him to fail, everyone is against him, blah, blah, blah

Fan:  this is a realy good album by Axl rose and his current lione up.  The way it is being marketed is terrible.  I am sure there are many factors, that lead to the lack of news, videos, singles, tours, etc, but Axl is ONE OF THEM TOO!  I love the guy, but he can be a stupid prick sometimes! He along with the rest of the original line up ALL share blame in the break up.

You see, I can be a fan, and still see the reality of things. 

[jarmo]

A fan can't say it's the greatest album?

Why not?

Please explain....


Funny how those who are on "Axl's side" are "fanboys". Just because you look at all the facts and then decide that his version of the events are way more plausible than anybody else's. Nice try to ridicule us.




/jarmo

[marknroses]

sorry to go off topic but "Thriller" was the only song MJ didn't have a hand in writing

he wrote Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature......

no idea what u are talking about.

No, he wrote Beat It, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something, and cowrote The Girl Is Mine.

U are right

but still 4 out of the 9 and 3 of those are his biggest hits ever.

Sure Jackson replicated that Voodoo

His next album Bad actually had more top tens than Thriller.



CD isn't a huge phenomenon because it is a "fan" album. none of the songs have huge crossover appeal etc because the songs are complex and not easily digestible. that is a bad mix in today's microwave society.

If Thriller had been recorded by Usher or JT instead of MJJ, it would have sold half as many copies.
MJJ had the emotional vein and theatrics talent  (and Quincy Jones) to catapult these songs into an eternal life of pop-musical relevance.

GNR was the same way with rock music in their glory years. That's why AFD and perhaps UYI continually sell at a higher level than their contemporaries.