What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[SMFS]

You can't maintain a total silence policy and not expect people to reach their own conclusions and then criticise the conclusions.

[jarmo]

You can't maintain a total silence policy and not expect people to reach their own conclusions and then criticise the conclusions.

It speaks volumes when silence is a better option than talking, don't you think?




/jarmo

[younggunner]

Did he want Greatest Hits released? Did he really want to do the 2002 tour?

The business is full of egos. Don't fool yourself into thinking they're all there for the artists. They're there to make money!

Everybody wants to have things done their way.

Yea, I mean how dare the label demand Axl work for the millions of dollars they were pumping him!

Its a business. Axl is not just an artist but a business man as well. To expect a label to just give you millions of dollars to work on your own time or whatever is insane.

If you take the money then s someone said earlier....your signing on the dotted line

I don't assume that, because I don't know.

All I know is that he definitely didn't plan some grand comeback like you had envisioned.

What grand comeback? Im basically saying I always thought Axl would have everything organized for when CD was released.

Or maybe he just got a call from Trent regarding a tour and jumped on that ship to see where it would sail?

Exactely. It shows how there is no communication or game plan within the camp. Months before the actual release.

Your answer to everything is: It's Axl's fault.

Unfortunately, a good part of it probably is his fault. Musically, there is no one that can top Axl. But the way this whole situation has been handled over the past decade has been atrocious/sad.

And yet we know very little about the why's, how's, when's and what's of what's actually going on.

All we have is history to go on. Has the past 10 yrs been all bad luck? Nope. Has it been all of Axls fault? Nope. Its somewhere in between.

[jarmo]

Yea, I mean how dare the label demand Axl work for the millions of dollars they were pumping him!

So just because I showed you that not everything is up to Axl, you're trying to make a joke about it?

Everything isn't necessarily his idea.... There are other people who are involved as well....

Its a business. Axl is not just an artist but a business man as well. To expect a label to just give you millions of dollars to work on your own time or whatever is insane.

If you take the money then s someone said earlier....your signing on the dotted line

Once again, you don't know a whole lot about what was signed, what it said and who agreed to what. 

What grand comeback? Im basically saying I always thought Axl would have everything organized for when CD was released.

You thought! Two keywords.

You didn't know. You thought.

You made up your mind based on assumptions. And now you act all violated.

Exactely. It shows how there is no communication or game plan within the camp. Months before the actual release.

How do you know?

Maybe it seemed like a great idea for Robin at the time. Maybe it still does, I don't know.

Unfortunately, a good part of it probably is his fault.

 


Because you know nothing, it's always a safe bet to assume it's Axl's fault right?

So predictable.

Like you say "a cop out"!

All we have is history to go on. Has the past 10 yrs been all bad luck? Nope. Has it been all of Axls fault? Nope. Its somewhere in between.

The easiest thing one can do is to whine about shit in hindsight. That's what you do.

You seem to fail to realize that every decision one makes in life is based on what you know at that particular moment. You can guess how things might unfold in the future and make a decision based on that, but often that's a gamble.

Obviously people who know how you should live your life, better than you do, will point out what you should've done afterward.


So for example, if GN'R canceled a few shows in order to finish the recording of the album in early 2007, now you can say it was a mistake Axl made because the album's release was pushed back until November 2008. But nobody knew that at the time in December 2006!

That's the whole fucking point.





/jarmo

[sandman]

am i the only one that reads a few posts in this thread and has no fucking idea what people are even arguing about???

ON TOPIC....there is nothing people "fail to understand" about CD. most people haven't heard CD. so there's nothing that they don't understand. and the ones that paid any attention to the song chinese democracy on the radio weren't all that impressed.

bottom line....most people don't give a flyin' fuck about CD.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

am i the only one that reads a few posts in this thread and has no fucking idea what people are even arguing about???

I'm with you on this.  I always skip the YG vs Jarmo debates because once you have read the first one, you've read all of them. 

[Ali]

On Gnrevolution, I referenced the Motley Crue book "The Dirt" and how basically they told Motley that until they got Vince back, they wouldn't do anything to promote or back the band. So one has to wonder if the label have washed their hands with Axl and this version of GNR.

I think it is a valid question.

If that were true, why would the label continue to fund the record to the tune of $13 million long after both Slash and Duff left?  That doesn't seem like something you do to "wash your hands" of someone.

Ali

Didn't they close the books a few years ago and refuse to put anymore money into the album though?

In what, 2004?  Again, that was long after both Slash and Duff left.

The continued to fund the record for years and millions after Slash and Duff left.  I don't see how that constitutes divorcing yourself of a situation.

Ali

[jacdaniel]

I don't think anybody can blame fan's for expecting the return of Axl when CD was released.  Sure, its great to have the album, but I think everybody expected to see a tour or a video by now.  Rewind 8 months ago, would you really be happy to know that in 8 months time, DJ Ashba would be having a live chat?

[D]

On Gnrevolution, I referenced the Motley Crue book "The Dirt" and how basically they told Motley that until they got Vince back, they wouldn't do anything to promote or back the band. So one has to wonder if the label have washed their hands with Axl and this version of GNR.

I think it is a valid question.

If that were true, why would the label continue to fund the record to the tune of $13 million long after both Slash and Duff left?  That doesn't seem like something you do to "wash your hands" of someone.

Ali

Didn't they close the books a few years ago and refuse to put anymore money into the album though?

In what, 2004?  Again, that was long after both Slash and Duff left.

The continued to fund the record for years and millions after Slash and Duff left.  I don't see how that constitutes divorcing yourself of a situation.

Ali

U aren't a gambler are you?

When u have already put millions into a project, u want that money back. So sometimes u have to put a few more million in just to try and get the thing out so u can recoup your money.

Finally though, there comes a time where u finally say,"I can't keep doing this"

It is like the gambler who keeps betting again and again trying to get out of the hole. Eventually u run out of money. So the record label were betting on Axl. After the 2002 tour and still no album, I think they just quit while they were only 12 million in the hole.




The reason I care about how well CD does is because I want future albums, tours etc etc

If CD is a huge failure, maybe we never get another GNR album.

so I think it is very important for fans to care about the success part of the album and not just "being happy" they get to hear it.

[jacdaniel]

The reason I care about how well CD does is because I want future albums, tours etc etc

If CD is a huge failure, maybe we never get another GNR album.

so I think it is very important for fans to care about the success part of the album and not just "being happy" they get to hear it.

This is a point i tried to make before and very much agree with. Axl won't get that kind of money to make an album again.  Especially with this label.  so people should be a little more concerned by all this. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I'm certain that a lot of material has been recorded.

Didn't Axl say so in the online chats?  Now, I'm not sure if these are finalized and mastered, but the material is there for future albums, if Axl wants to put some more stuff out.

[jacdaniel]

Im sure it would still all need to be finalised and need money pumped into it.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Not millions upon millions of dollars, no.

[jacdaniel]

Not millions upon millions of dollars, no.

Well no, not that much 

[Albert S Miller]

The reason I care about how well CD does is because I want future albums, tours etc etc

If CD is a huge failure, maybe we never get another GNR album.

so I think it is very important for fans to care about the success part of the album and not just "being happy" they get to hear it.

This is a point i tried to make before and very much agree with. Axl won't get that kind of money to make an album again.  Especially with this label.  so people should be a little more concerned by all this. 

There is always a new label and there is also his own money.  You guys don't think Axl has his own 12 million, I bet that he does.  I also think that anything Axl wants to do can be done, if indeed that is what Axl wants to do. 

[D]

yeah but Axl said in 02 they had 3 albums worth of material but has definitely backed off that statement sense even blaming it on Sebastian saying that Baz doesn't know what he is talking about when it was axl that said it damn near a decade ago.

[jacdaniel]

You guys don't think Axl has his own 12 million, I bet that he does

Maybe he does, but i dont see him spending it to make an album.  I just think that GNR need to try and clean up this mess or not many labels will be rushing to work with them.

[Captain P?l]

You guys don't think Axl has his own 12 million, I bet that he does

Maybe he does, but i dont see him spending it to make an album.  I just think that GNR need to try and clean up this mess or not many labels will be rushing to work with them.

Why use so much money on a album anyway?

Duff's Loaded used, what? 20 000 dollars and it rocks the fuck outta CD...

[jacdaniel]

Why use so much money on a album anyway?

Duff's Loaded used, what? 20 000 dollars and it rocks the fuck outta CD...

Well, I was just basing it on the amount that CD cost. 

And yes, sick really does rock! 

[ppbebe]

The reason I care about how well CD does is because I want future albums, tours etc etc

If CD is a huge failure,

It's not.

do people on the forum not realise that Worldwide, it's confirmedly the 14th bestselling album of the year,  although it had only a month to go
 and reportedly,

so i'm guessing that the total is around 3-3.5 million right now?  i wonder if anyone has any more accurate figures?

                    That link asking about worldwide sales.... well I asked it and it says that as of June 8th , Chinese Democracy has moved 4 million copies world-wide. Which is pretty damn good for a band that had no tour , no music video , etc etc.

If true, +1.4mil units have moved since the initial run passed, mainly by word of mouth.
I wonder if that means 3.5 mil of that was from outside of the us... Isn't it the us peeps who keep saying it's not doing well?

By and large, it is not ignored by the public at all. I can see it slowly catching on with people who weren't 'waiting'.