What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[seely]

^Well i think Robins solo in TIL is one of the very best parts of the album!

[russtcb]

I'm not placing blame squarely on Axl or the bands shoulders. I cannot imagine why nobody involved wanted to lift a finger to promote it. From Best Buy's "monumental campaign" that never happened, to the label or whomever not getting songs placed in movies, adverts, etc. Who knows. But I firmly believe that had this been promoted correctly by anyone, it would've been massive.

You cannot be serious? How would you have liked to see Best Buy promote it? Without having a music video, any band photos, appearances, etc, how were they supposed to form and execute a monumental campaign?

The blame, for me, pretty much falls on Axl's doorstep.

Everyone and their mom thought that ONCE CD was finally released that the whole proto typical rock campaign would kick off and we would get a nice, consistent, relevant cycle of Guns N Roses which would represent the new chapter of GNR.

The problem Im having is that I cant put my finger on Axl in regards to his goal. I am confused because I always thought that while he was hiding in the hills he was not only attempting to make the best batch of albumS he could possibly make but also be conjuring up his comeback plan. I always assumed that the stop and go stuff would end once CD was released. And when I hear him complain about record labels, managers, etc Im like cmon man you had years to get all your ducks in a row. I know its not that easy but you know what, if you can get a label to give you 12+million, Im sure you can get them to do the other things your way too.

 If he came out and said that hes content with his lifestyle and privacy(although you can still do videos, lil press,etc and maintain your privacy) and that he just will be focusing on making and releasing music every so often then I think he wouldnt get ragged on all the time.

Until he says that, then to me at least, he comes across as lazy and as someone who is stuck in a rut. Hes not quite sure what to do with GNR and or how to move foward. Which is ashame because he has had well over a decade to figuree all of this out.  It just seems to me that he is lost and is having a hard time figuring out what he wants to do. I think its fair to say that because I think he had big plans. Why else would he decide to keep the name and go through all of the lawsuits and negative press that he knew he was going to get when keeping the name and denying a reunion? He obviosuly had some big plans. So to me that is why he just seems lost. And I dont buy the whole "Axl does things on his terms" copout. Musically yes, the integrity is there, but in regards to the other stuff I just see excuses.

I have fully supported Axls decision in regards to the whole new lineup and CD era but it comes a point when you have to ask yourself is all of this worth it? The 2002 lineup was when Axl would have nailed the comeback. He had a band that was as good as the old band and as we found out 6 years later had the album that would back it up. They also had that what the fuck image, which you need in todays market. Buckethead was the perfect answer to Slash. Image and skill wise.

But this whole saga has carried on and amazingly, has never really started. Everything is stop and go and any momentum gained is quickly lossed. Which is why CD has "failed" sales wise and has not caught on.

Musically which is what ultimately counts, Axl hit a grand salami, but whith everything else he has dropped the ball big time. Axl could have had a big time comeback for a decade, released 2-4 albums, tours, become relevant and show that he could do it without Slash. He would have left himself and his legacy untouched.  Unfortunately, he missed that opportunity and any reunion will probably tarnish Axls image even more because it will be percieved as he couldnt do anything without the old lineup, hence him reuniting with the old band.

What is sad is that he could have done both and came out smelling like a rose.

His inability to get himself and this band into the spotlight for any consistent amount of time without and headaches has been one of the main reasons why this album hasnt caught on. He had yrs to get the bs out of the way with the old band yet  months after the album is finally released he is talking about the old band. THat shit should have been taken care of yrs ago. When CD was released(even though it was way too late) Axl and the band should have solely focused ont he album and gnr 2kwhatever.

Axl is the owner,gm,manager,and player of GNR. He wanted that and has it. While I am sure there has been some legit bad luck over the yrs, and things arent as easy as I or we make it out, there is no way anyone can tell me this has been handled properly.

remember people....

when there is a will, there is a way....(scraped..cough cough)

To me they're the kind of albums that it doesn't take more than a half listen before you've figured out how the album will sound. That's why I used the "mindless" remark.

It's easy to get into and you know what you'll get.

Some great albums are easy to get into and know what your getting...and others are the opposite.

there is no formula

I didn't say I don't place any blame on Axl or the band, I just said I don't place all of it.

To answer one part; what would I like to have seen from Best Buy? How about more then 1 cardboard standee of the album? How about more then just pictures of Axl in their ads?

What would I have liked to seen Best Buy do with Chinese Democracy? Answer: Wal-Mart with Black Ice.

[Ali]

Well said, russtcb.

No one can deny that Axl deserves a large portion of the blame for the lack of sales by virtue of not touring and only doing two interviews.  But, when people have difficulty even finding the album in Best Buy stores, like I did, there is a problem.  Let's also not forget that the label told Billboard they were going to release a third single, widely believed to be "Street of Dreams", but never did.  That could have helped had the song actually been released.

Ali

[King Axl]

I'm not placing blame squarely on Axl or the bands shoulders. I cannot imagine why nobody involved wanted to lift a finger to promote it. From Best Buy's "monumental campaign" that never happened, to the label or whomever not getting songs placed in movies, adverts, etc. Who knows. But I firmly believe that had this been promoted correctly by anyone, it would've been massive.

You cannot be serious? How would you have liked to see Best Buy promote it? Without having a music video, any band photos, appearances, etc, how were they supposed to form and execute a monumental campaign?

The blame, for me, pretty much falls on Axl's doorstep.

Everyone and their mom thought that ONCE CD was finally released that the whole proto typical rock campaign would kick off and we would get a nice, consistent, relevant cycle of Guns N Roses which would represent the new chapter of GNR.

The problem Im having is that I cant put my finger on Axl in regards to his goal. I am confused because I always thought that while he was hiding in the hills he was not only attempting to make the best batch of albumS he could possibly make but also be conjuring up his comeback plan. I always assumed that the stop and go stuff would end once CD was released. And when I hear him complain about record labels, managers, etc Im like cmon man you had years to get all your ducks in a row. I know its not that easy but you know what, if you can get a label to give you 12+million, Im sure you can get them to do the other things your way too.

 If he came out and said that hes content with his lifestyle and privacy(although you can still do videos, lil press,etc and maintain your privacy) and that he just will be focusing on making and releasing music every so often then I think he wouldnt get ragged on all the time.

Until he says that, then to me at least, he comes across as lazy and as someone who is stuck in a rut. Hes not quite sure what to do with GNR and or how to move foward. Which is ashame because he has had well over a decade to figuree all of this out.  It just seems to me that he is lost and is having a hard time figuring out what he wants to do. I think its fair to say that because I think he had big plans. Why else would he decide to keep the name and go through all of the lawsuits and negative press that he knew he was going to get when keeping the name and denying a reunion? He obviosuly had some big plans. So to me that is why he just seems lost. And I dont buy the whole "Axl does things on his terms" copout. Musically yes, the integrity is there, but in regards to the other stuff I just see excuses.

I have fully supported Axls decision in regards to the whole new lineup and CD era but it comes a point when you have to ask yourself is all of this worth it? The 2002 lineup was when Axl would have nailed the comeback. He had a band that was as good as the old band and as we found out 6 years later had the album that would back it up. They also had that what the fuck image, which you need in todays market. Buckethead was the perfect answer to Slash. Image and skill wise.

But this whole saga has carried on and amazingly, has never really started. Everything is stop and go and any momentum gained is quickly lossed. Which is why CD has "failed" sales wise and has not caught on.

Musically which is what ultimately counts, Axl hit a grand salami, but whith everything else he has dropped the ball big time. Axl could have had a big time comeback for a decade, released 2-4 albums, tours, become relevant and show that he could do it without Slash. He would have left himself and his legacy untouched.  Unfortunately, he missed that opportunity and any reunion will probably tarnish Axls image even more because it will be percieved as he couldnt do anything without the old lineup, hence him reuniting with the old band.

What is sad is that he could have done both and came out smelling like a rose.

His inability to get himself and this band into the spotlight for any consistent amount of time without and headaches has been one of the main reasons why this album hasnt caught on. He had yrs to get the bs out of the way with the old band yet  months after the album is finally released he is talking about the old band. THat shit should have been taken care of yrs ago. When CD was released(even though it was way too late) Axl and the band should have solely focused ont he album and gnr 2kwhatever.

Axl is the owner,gm,manager,and player of GNR. He wanted that and has it. While I am sure there has been some legit bad luck over the yrs, and things arent as easy as I or we make it out, there is no way anyone can tell me this has been handled properly.

remember people....

when there is a will, there is a way....(scraped..cough cough)

To me they're the kind of albums that it doesn't take more than a half listen before you've figured out how the album will sound. That's why I used the "mindless" remark.

It's easy to get into and you know what you'll get.

Some great albums are easy to get into and know what your getting...and others are the opposite.

there is no formula

Pretty much 100% in agreement with you, bro.

[jarmo]

Younggunner's post is filled with I's and assumptions. It's all about what he dreamed up would happen once the album either had a release date and/or was released.

These assumptions, dreams, theories, wishes and so on has been building up in his own mind ever since that day in 2001 (I think that was the year he became a fan) that he decided to call himself a GN'R fan.

Now there's nothing wrong with having dreams or wishes. Most of us have some kinds of dream for the future. Some dream of going on a holiday and others dream of huge promotional campaigns for a record.


People who are fans like the rest of us, are trying to understand what goes into the world of being in a successful rock band.

When you know nothing, how can you go on and on about what should have been done, when and by who? It's just a lot of stuff from people who basically know nothing about the actual business involved.

For example, does it come as a surprise to you that there are people at the record company who do all kinds of jobs? Jobs that will hopefully sell more records for that company. It's not all about the artist.


It's been explained that your fantasy was not meant to be reality ("Our focus was in getting the record deal done while finishing the album, which hit many an unexpected bump or sinkhole in the road right up until the actual release. We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.").

But that has been labeled as a "cop out" or as an "excuse".

The truth obviously doesn't interest. It's boring. It's no fun to hear that the release of the album was the focus and all those promotional things you had dreamed of for years weren't.

So, instead of just accepting it, the finger pointing starts. Somebody has to be blamed for your dreams being crushed so brutally! There must be a villain here! It's not your fault!



Axl said that the release of the album was a miracle, but yet here you are still going on and on about your promotional plans/career advice while ignoring that vital nugget of information.....




/jarmo

[younggunner]

It's all about what he dreamed up would happen once the album either had a release date and/or was released.

These assumptions, dreams, theories, wishes and so on has been building up in his own mind ever since that day in 2001 (I think that was the year he became a fan) that he decided to call himself a GN'R fan.

Ok, I was wrong....I should have said "everyone and their mom thought that once CD was released, the proto typical rock campaign would begin....except Jarmo and his mom"

Shame on me for thinking that once CD was released there would be videos, appearances, press, Axl in the spotlight again, etc...silly me 

Shame on me for thinking that once Axl released the album he was going to be active and move on with a new chapter of gnr and demonstrate why he decided to go through with using the name and putting up with all the bs press over the yrs.

People who are fans like the rest of us, are trying to understand what goes into the world of being in a successful rock band.

When you know nothing, how can you go on and on about what should have been done, when and by who? It's just a lot of stuff from people who basically know nothing about the actual business involved.

Because its a message board and we are allowed to ponder, speculate, question the situations that are presented

Im not pretending to know anything about the music business. All I know is what I see.

It's been explained that your fantasy was not meant to be reality ("Our focus was in getting the record deal done while finishing the album, which hit many an unexpected bump or sinkhole in the road right up until the actual release. We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.").

But that has been labeled as a "cop out" or as an "excuse".

If that was said prior to the release that is one thing.  But saying it after doesnt mean much.

Axl said that the release of the album was a miracle, but yet here you are still going on and on about your promotional plans/career advice while ignoring that vital nugget of information.....

Who knows why it was a miracle. It might as well could have been. But it also could have been a "miracle" because Axl made it out to be like that. Its all from his perspective. Your of the opinion that Axl has never done one thing wrong during this journey...Im not

The question asks why hasnt CD caught on. That is why I post my thoughts and assumptions on why I think it hasnt caught on publicly...aka my dreams

[WTTJ_91]

People understand it , I don't think they are confused. The fact of the matter is the album did poorly. No one is at blame, Axl recorded and put out his best and the people who liked it bought it the ones who didn't did not. I am under the impression that Axl Rose does not really need to PUSH his records to the fullest. He has seen the top of the world and the lows as well. I'm sure CD was not meant to be a giant wave of $$$. GN'R is putting out music for the same reason it ALWAYS has , to put out music that their emotions and hearts lie in. No one is confused about the record , some people just don't like it and I find no fault in that. Axl doesn't need money , he doesn't need more fame , hell he doesn't really NEED anything at this point. He wants to create music that he believes in , and Chinese Democracy is that. I don't think their is any "failure" in that.

[Buddha_Master]

People who don't like CD are annoying as fuck.

[jacdaniel]

People who don't like CD are annoying as fuck.

Quite a generalisation 

[D]

If a poll was taken, I'd say most people figured GNR would be a very active band once CD came out. My theory still stands that in this horrible economy, GNR haven't been able to find a promoter to take them on.

[D]

People who don't like CD are annoying as fuck.

I don't think u have to like CD to be a GNR fan. I am not a huge fan of Prince's new CD Lotus Flow3r so does that all of a sudden make me no longer a Prince fan even though I've worshiped the guy for 20 years?

[w.axl.rose]

People who don't like CD are annoying as fuck.

I don't think u have to like CD to be a GNR fan. I am not a huge fan of Prince's new CD Lotus Flow3r so does that all of a sudden make me no longer a Prince fan even though I've worshiped the guy for 20 years?

That is correct

[jacdaniel]

That is correct

Are you been serious? Please say you're joking.

[LIGuns]

I Know people thoat couldn't get into CD for the fact that Axl is the only remaining original member....To me Axl is such a creative force, of ICONIC stature, that I feel makes it diffferant from so many other 80's bands lacking original members. It's a shame, because this is such a unique and daring album...

[w.axl.rose]

That is correct

Are you been serious? Please say you're joking.

yeah I'm joking 

[jacdaniel]

sorry, thought you were been serious 

[freddiebrph]

It's all about what he dreamed up would happen once the album either had a release date and/or was released.

These assumptions, dreams, theories, wishes and so on has been building up in his own mind ever since that day in 2001 (I think that was the year he became a fan) that he decided to call himself a GN'R fan.

Ok, I was wrong....I should have said "everyone and their mom thought that once CD was released, the proto typical rock campaign would begin....except Jarmo and his mom"

Shame on me for thinking that once CD was released there would be videos, appearances, press, Axl in the spotlight again, etc...silly me 

Shame on me for thinking that once Axl released the album he was going to be active and move on with a new chapter of gnr and demonstrate why he decided to go through with using the name and putting up with all the bs press over the yrs.

People who are fans like the rest of us, are trying to understand what goes into the world of being in a successful rock band.

When you know nothing, how can you go on and on about what should have been done, when and by who? It's just a lot of stuff from people who basically know nothing about the actual business involved.

Because its a message board and we are allowed to ponder, speculate, question the situations that are presented

Im not pretending to know anything about the music business. All I know is what I see.

It's been explained that your fantasy was not meant to be reality ("Our focus was in getting the record deal done while finishing the album, which hit many an unexpected bump or sinkhole in the road right up until the actual release. We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.").

But that has been labeled as a "cop out" or as an "excuse".

If that was said prior to the release that is one thing.  But saying it after doesnt mean much.

Axl said that the release of the album was a miracle, but yet here you are still going on and on about your promotional plans/career advice while ignoring that vital nugget of information.....

Who knows why it was a miracle. It might as well could have been. But it also could have been a "miracle" because Axl made it out to be like that. Its all from his perspective. Your of the opinion that Axl has never done one thing wrong during this journey...Im not

The question asks why hasnt CD caught on. That is why I post my thoughts and assumptions on why I think it hasnt caught on publicly...aka my dreams

Jarmo knows everything you are saying has value.  I have told him before he needs to be a lawyer, because he is so good at spinning shit.  Bottom line, unless you are under 7 years old, you HAVE to recognize that any product needs promo.  I dare anyone with a quarter of a brain to disagree with me that the way this album was handeled is a HUGE mistake. THAT IS A FACT!!!!! Now, this thread has gone on for 34 pages and we still know nothing.  Again, maybe there are these "reasons": that nothing at all is happening. But when all you get is Axl saying "its a miracle" and no other info on anything ever, how can a FAN of this band not become frustrated? No matter how many timesa some on this board try to convince most of us that: A) this is normal for a band or B) this is gnr, its ALWAYS been this way.  Both of those statements are BS, and any gnr  or music fan know this.

[Bitch Slap Rappin]

Maybe Chinese Democracy never came out and we are all in a shared Twilight Zone dream.
(I don't know I just checked to put my copy of CD on and it's not there. All of you check to see if this is true...............


"What ever happen to you baby, I guess will just have to wait to see!"

[Albert S Miller]

Maybe Chinese Democracy never came out and we are all in a shared Twilight Zone dream.
(I don't know I just checked to put my copy of CD on and it's not there. All of you check to see if this is true...............


"What ever happen to you baby, I guess will just have to wait to see!"

Too many copies to look for .

             Well nobody ever told ya baby, how it was spost to be

[jarmo]

Shame on me for thinking that once Axl released the album he was going to be active and move on with a new chapter of gnr and demonstrate why he decided to go through with using the name and putting up with all the bs press over the yrs.

Ha!

No, shame on you for going on and on about something that has been explained to you was nothing more than your own personal dreams.

It's one thing to hope for something, but when you get it explained to you (we never intended to do what you thought we would) and you still go on about it, it just seems like you ignore the facts.

Because its a message board and we are allowed to ponder, speculate, question the situations that are presented

Im not pretending to know anything about the music business. All I know is what I see.

Amusing.

You're allowed to dream up scenarios all day long, but every explanation is a "cop out" and/or an invalid "excuse".

If that was said prior to the release that is one thing.  But saying it after doesnt mean much.

See above.

Who knows why it was a miracle.

Because you can hold the actual physical and legal release in your hands.

Maybe you can use some of your imagination to think of reason why the release in itself was a miracle?

The question asks why hasnt CD caught on. That is why I post my thoughts and assumptions on why I think it hasnt caught on publicly...aka my dreams

Sure, and some of those dreams have very little to do with reality.

Does Axl drive a delivery truck in your dreams? Since he seems to do everything else in regards to the record/product.....






/jarmo