What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[jarmo]

if (some of) the songs would have been outstanding.....the world would have accepted them sooner or later, quality often wins the game, right? so could it be the songs are just good-average but not great?

Is that your best guess?


Are you seriously saying only quality music sells?

I fail to see how bands like Nickelback apparently put out one "outstanding" song after another.



You'd be more right if you had said the album hasn't got any stupid watered down generic rock for the masses to consume instantly.





/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

This album isn't a success because it wasn't promoted properly. What do people fail to understand about that?

It probably would have sold more if they were touring behind it

here in vegas, there are 2 rock stations.  one of them was playing it pretty heavily during that first week and the other refused to touch it.. so they weren't getting all the support they needed from the media to promote it properly.

[D]

In all honesty, even if Axl called this "Axl Rose" It still would've been compared endlessly to GNR and still would've had negative stuff due to the fact everyone perceives Axl for being the reason the band broke up.

[Limulus]

edit for the intelligent Jim Bobasher:
when people are complaining about others not giving this CD a chance under the GN'R name, then the name issue is part of the problem to discuss.

no its not.  people can either accept it or not.   its very very very stupid to dismiss something just because of a name.   this is the most tired topic on these boards theres nothing more to say about it.   Axl Rose owns the Guns N' Roses name, you do not.  He can do whatever he wants with it.  People can either get on board or fuck off..

people do that often when it comes to music. it doesnt change a thing if you label those people "very stupid" cause their opinion remain. but doing that you somehow also agree that it happens, and that just proves what i've said: if people are having a problem with CD and the band name then the name is part of the problem to discuss. adding that even Marc Canter said CD is not really GN'R but the voice of GN'R what you get.
there is no need to go in bashing defense, is it?

@Jarmo:
i dont know much about Nickelback and their songs so i'm probably not good in discussion them. for me that band does a good job standing in line frequently though, something what works out for them somehow and something Axl provenly lacks. that doesnt make their songs or them better human off course.

and no, i never did combine quality and money in my replies. i meant that to me CD is lacking songs themselves that would win over listeners by its own level. kinda like person1: "wow, did you hear that song from CD?? what a killer!!" person2: *checking* "damn, he was right!!" and then rolling on and on from there. a huge band name GN'R has way more easy options in that. but it appears to me that this isnt happening that much, thats why the songs could be questioned. is there really a Sweet Child on there?
but i agree on your last sentence aswell.

[Jim Bob]

people do that often when it comes to music. it doesnt change a thing if you label those people "very stupid" cause their opinion remain. but doing that you somehow also agree that it happens, and that just proves what i've said: if people are having a problem with CD and the band name then the name is part of the problem to discuss. adding that even Marc Canter said CD is not really GN'R but the voice of GN'R what you get.
there is no need to go in bashing defense, is it?

Its not only "very stupid" its also "extremely narrow minded" and even "ignorant".   if you are going to let something that trival ruin your enjoyment of something, you have serious problems.   

Some people dont' like it, so they are going to be cry babys about it and bash on it all the time.  fuck those people, they aren't true fans then are they?  so theres nothing more to discuss on that issue.

[sandman]

promotion is the biggest factor. no need to over-analyze.

kid rock sold multi millions of records in the late 90's. he released an album in 2007 and it only sold less than 200,000 in week 1. but he promoted the fuck out of it. released and promoted single after single. eventually one hit. his album is still on the charts and has sold over 3 million.

CD's failure (to date) has little to do with the general public being unfair towards this band and/or this album. bands need to stay in the public's consciousness and give them a reason to buy the album.

also, there are several potential mega-hits on this album. just imagine Axl performing TIL with the band a fill orchestra on an awards show. people would be blown away and he would gain all types of fans.   

[otgm]

green day promoted their album with videos, in store signings, special shows, etc. Axl did not. Promotion, if done right, can go a long way. Also, I don't think anyone outside of the GN'R message board would ever consider it to be one of the greatest rock albums of all time, not to start shit or anything, but most people seem to think it is "alright" to "pretty good".

Subjectively, no one can consider it "alright to pretty good". No way. The songs are on a level that no other bands out there today puts out, and the production is flawless and so is the band. It's not possible that the GN'R message board community can deem it to be an amazing record and the rest of the world does not. Look at Rolling Stone's review. It was on point, and so were a lot of other reviews. The bias in the media can't explain it all and neither can the lack of promotion. It' something else.

Lol, of course anyone can say that Chinese Democracy is poor. It's SUBJECTIVE. I just listened to CD for the first time this year and I have listened to it like 5 times now. That's how much I like it. It's a 3/5 star album for me, and I have plenty of those in my collection.

[ppbebe]

the catchers point is that you either love it or hate it tho.
and he's right, it's impossible that forum fans deem it to be an amazing record and everyone else deems the same album boring.
I know many cd fans don't post forums.

5 times and you don't hate it. so maybe you better listen to it more.  you don't always fall in love at first sight.

[D]

I think its fair to say that CD is more of a "fan" album than it is a commercial release.

[otgm]

the catchers point is that you either love it or hate it tho.
and he's right, it's impossible that forum fans deem it to be an amazing record and everyone else deems the same album boring.
I know many cd fans don't post forums.

5 times and you don't hate it. so maybe you better listen to it more.  you don't always fall in love at first sight.

No it's different with this album. I actually liked it more after first listen than I do now. It's got some good songs but some of the stuff is really crappy considering the time Axl had to write the material. There's no way around it.

[jarmo]

Lol, of course anyone can say that Chinese Democracy is poor. It's SUBJECTIVE. I just listened to CD for the first time this year and I have listened to it like 5 times now. That's how much I like it. It's a 3/5 star album for me, and I have plenty of those in my collection.

Yeah, I guess it's not easy to listen to when your idea of a 5/5 album is pretty much other people's idea of boring/bland.....


It seems to me like many of the people who think Chinese Democracy is average are fans of a different "kind" music. People who think rock music is basically what you make with drums, bass and guitar.

Or people who never got over the band breaking up..... Or both.


It's amusing to see so many people who obviously hold a grudge against Axl/the band act like they gave the album a fair chance.

For example, there's a poster that goes on and on about the GN'R name and has a personal text saying something like Axl thinks GN'R is his solo project. I find it difficult to take what he says that seriously because he's obviously made up his mind before the album was released.





/jarmo

[BlowUpYourVideo]

Arguments based on the quality of the music (whether you think it's good or bad) are kinda pointless, since that's pretty much a subjective area. There really is no such thing as "good" or "bad" music...

[jarmo]

Arguments based on the quality of the music (whether you think it's good or bad) are kinda pointless, since that's pretty much a subjective area. There really is no such thing as "good" or "bad" music...

Of course not.

For example, if your idea of a 4 or 5 star album is something released by Izzy Stradlin (because it's the first thing that popped into my mind since his music is something GN'R fans know of and it's the complete opposite of CD) on iTunes, it might explain why you think Chinese Democracy is average.

It's two totally different things.


I wouldn't even compare the two because of that.

If I want to listen to an album that'll open up the more I listen to it and I know I'll enjoy for years, I'll put on CD.

If I want some "mindless" rock ' roll perfected in the 60s, I can always start iTunes and listen to Izzy sing about boxes or something.


Two different things for two different occasions.



CD is like an exotic hamburger that you're not necessarily used to. Many other albums are like your every day burger. You'll know what you get and that you'll like it because you love burgers. 




/jarmo

[The Prez]

also, there are several potential mega-hits on this album. just imagine Axl performing TIL with the band a fill orchestra on an awards show. people would be blown away and he would gain all types of fans.   

That would be awesome.
I am more of a (heavy) rocker myself, but for some reason I'm addicted to this very emotional song; I agree this kind of performance would bring Guns back on it's place where they belong: (one of) the best rockband out there!!

And I also agree to the fact that there is nothing people fail to understand about CD; it all has to do with the lack of promo which leaded towards (too) little interest by the world for this band and it's new album.
Ofcourse you also have the typical guns-haters who keep on telling shit about this band and this album, that a lot of people (no hardcore fans) take for truth

On the other hand, CD is maybe not such a succes most of us expected it to be; it still sells better than a lot of other well known artists and bands...

Maybe we shouldn't focus too much on the negative part.
The album is out, let us enjoy for now and fuck the ones that don't like it.

We'll see what the future will bring!

[Limulus]

For example, there's a poster that goes on and on about the GN'R name and has a personal text saying something like Axl thinks GN'R is his solo project. I find it difficult to take what he says that seriously because he's obviously made up his mind before the album was released.

/jarmo

thats a Slash quote, Jarmo, which hits the nail pretty well IMO. and you're wrong, too, because my decision to use it here was AFTER cd release 
before that it was a thank-you for the european 2006 tour 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Hamburgers, pizza...I'm getting hungry.

[jarmo]

thats a Slash quote, Jarmo, which hits the nail pretty well IMO. and you're wrong, too, because my decision to use it here was AFTER cd release 
before that it was a thank-you for the european 2006 tour 

Now there's a reliable source!

The fact that you agree with it speaks volumes. 




/jarmo

[russtcb]

promotion is the biggest factor. no need to over-analyze.

kid rock sold multi millions of records in the late 90's. he released an album in 2007 and it only sold less than 200,000 in week 1. but he promoted the fuck out of it. released and promoted single after single. eventually one hit. his album is still on the charts and has sold over 3 million.

CD's failure (to date) has little to do with the general public being unfair towards this band and/or this album. bands need to stay in the public's consciousness and give them a reason to buy the album.

also, there are several potential mega-hits on this album. just imagine Axl performing TIL with the band a fill orchestra on an awards show. people would be blown away and he would gain all types of fans.   

Yepper.

I'm not placing blame squarely on Axl or the bands shoulders. I cannot imagine why nobody involved wanted to lift a finger to promote it. From Best Buy's "monumental campaign" that never happened, to the label or whomever not getting songs placed in movies, adverts, etc. Who knows. But I firmly believe that had this been promoted correctly by anyone, it would've been massive.

[Jim Bob]

For example, there's a poster that goes on and on about the GN'R name and has a personal text saying something like Axl thinks GN'R is his solo project. I find it difficult to take what he says that seriously because he's obviously made up his mind before the album was released.

/jarmo

thats a Slash quote, Jarmo, which hits the nail pretty well IMO. and you're wrong, too, because my decision to use it here was AFTER cd release 
before that it was a thank-you for the european 2006 tour 

dont give a fuck what that guy says.   the fact that you parade around here with that nonsense in your sig just shows you have nothing better to do than troll GNR boards and try to piss off fans.

[Limulus]

Jim BoBasher.....your sig can do the same 
its your posting history that is full of hate and lack of discussion skills, not mine.

"For example, there's a poster that goes on and on about the GN'R name and has a personal text saying something like Axl thinks GN'R is his solo project. I find it difficult to take what he says that seriously because he's obviously made up his mind before the album was released."

ah, Jarmo, come on...running out of arguments going personal is poor, you know that very well. and i've just proved you wrong with the last part of the quote above. didnt matter to you being wrong in the 1st place but twisting it in other ways after, eh!

"It's amusing to see so many people who obviously hold a grudge against Axl/the band act like they gave the album a fair chance."

off course that had to come out by you! poor bullshit when directing to me though. you dont have to completely rule out the possibility people just rating the CD songs not very good after they'd listen to them.