What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[peter7411226]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

That was a funny post.

I thought it was kind of lame, but whatever.  To each his own.  Glad you enjoyed it.

I don't think an album has ever existed that everybody loved or everybody hated.  Obviously there are going to be differing opinions, and that's fine.  I don't think anyone is actually saying you're not a true fan if you don't like the current album, there's a lot more to go into deciphering that.  I will say though, Axl himself said that the rest of the music they had been working on was similar to what we've heard on CD.  So if you don't like this one, not sure you're gonna like the rest.  So maybe in a sense you aren't a fan of the current incarnation of GNR.  That's fine, but don't expect to come and post negative opinions on a GNR message board and have nobody react.  Don't take it so personally.  I'm sure you knew what you were getting yourself into before you hit the "post" button.

And I'm not referring to anyone specifically, the "you" are a select group.

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

[ppbebe]

and see what you'd get if you criticised previous albums on fan boards.  

[jacdaniel]

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

Well said!

I know a lot of CASUAL GNR fans and not many of them have bought the album.  I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

[ppbebe]

ok I'll have a go. take that!

IMO appatite is like poor man's chinese democracy. To be generous, I say a few songs on there are of cd's calibre! 

I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

how?

[faldor]

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

Well said!

I know a lot of CASUAL GNR fans and not many of them have bought the album.  I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

That's fine, those who don't like the album are voicing their opinions.  Those who like the album are defending it and voicing THEIR opinion.  If you come on here and say you don't like the album, are we all just supposed to sit quietly here and say nothing?  It doesn't work that way.  That's why you get a response, and why you in turn give a response.  It's called a discussion, and sometimes it gets a little heated.  Sorry if I sound condescending, I'm just not sure why this is such a hard subject to grasp.

[peter7411226]

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

Well said!

I know a lot of CASUAL GNR fans and not many of them have bought the album.  I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

That's fine, those who don't like the album are voicing their opinions.  Those who like the album are defending it and voicing THEIR opinion.  If you come on here and say you don't like the album, are we all just supposed to sit quietly here and say nothing?  It doesn't work that way.  That's why you get a response, and why you in turn give a response.  It's called a discussion, and sometimes it gets a little heated.  Sorry if I sound condescending, I'm just not sure why this is such a hard subject to grasp.

See Faldor but thats kind of my point. Im all for the discussion part of it. But when people start saying that people who dont like the album dont like it because they dont get it thats kind of insulting. Its pretty much saying that they arent suffistigated enough to appreciate it. Thats where they lose me. Also I dont get how some people say that people who dont like the album are negative. Of course there are some jerks who come here just to antagonize and are unreasonable ( on both sides of the isle). But im talking about the ones who come in and give reasonable ones.

[ppbebe]

where were you when i got called names for favouring the 21th century GNR?

[The Catcher]

When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.

It's ok, it's your opinion. I disagree with some of your masterpieces, but anyways, that's not the point.

A little off-topic here, but the only true masterpieces in that list is AFD and Blonde on Blonde. Those were albums that when you heard them, you just knew they were the best album in the world. I tried comparing them some years ago to see which one is better as a whole. Impossible. You just know that they are both two of the best albums ever created, each in their own unique way.

[faldor]

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

Well said!

I know a lot of CASUAL GNR fans and not many of them have bought the album.  I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

That's fine, those who don't like the album are voicing their opinions.  Those who like the album are defending it and voicing THEIR opinion.  If you come on here and say you don't like the album, are we all just supposed to sit quietly here and say nothing?  It doesn't work that way.  That's why you get a response, and why you in turn give a response.  It's called a discussion, and sometimes it gets a little heated.  Sorry if I sound condescending, I'm just not sure why this is such a hard subject to grasp.

See Faldor but thats kind of my point. Im all for the discussion part of it. But when people start saying that people who dont like the album dont like it because they dont get it thats kind of insulting. Its pretty much saying that they arent suffistigated enough to appreciate it. Thats where they lose me. Also I dont get how some people say that people who dont like the album are negative. Of course there are some jerks who come here just to antagonize and are unreasonable ( on both sides of the isle). But im talking about the ones who come in and give reasonable ones.

Well the title of the thread isn't really aimed at you or other GNR fans who don't like the album, I don't think.  At least not in general.  The question at hand is why the album hasn't hit the mainstream audience in a more profound way?  You're speaking on your experiences that the album just didn't resonate with you in a certain way and obviously many other people have/would have that same reaction.  BUT, I believe a lot of people didn't give the album a fair chance from the get go.  They had their minds made up from day one.  And I don't really think it's that far removed from the UYI's, so I don't fully understand how "fans" can dislike the album so much when they liked the previous albums.  To me and many others, it's been a natural progression.  That's why it's hard for some of us to understand why the album isn't liked by "fans".  And that's where the thoughts of certain members who weren't a part of Chinese Democracy and harkening for the glory days as reasons for not liking it come from.

[ppbebe]

When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.

It's ok, it's your opinion. I disagree with some of your masterpieces, but anyways, that's not the point.

A little off-topic here, but the only true masterpieces in that list is AFD and Blonde on Blonde. Those were albums that when you heard them, you just knew they were the best album in the world.

I'd say Sgt. Peppers and Zep IV. and the public is with me it seems.
and I say cd is also a masterpiece among masterpieces.

[Gargh!]

Quote from: Gargh! on Today at 05:30:13 AM
Come on Jarmo, I generally agree with you (if not it quite such strong terms), but you're being a little unfair there.  Prefering one album to another is not the same as the over the top reactions to criticism of Chinese Democracy which are commonplace here.
I think you're also being defensive here. If people get over the top reactions, you could also notice how a FAN forum has so much haters (and I know this is one that has less haters). People who get in here everyday just for talking shit about the new album, the current band (including Axl, of course) and even jarmo.

This is the thing, there hasn't much "hating" on this thread at all.  Saying an album is "OK", or "not bad", or "quite good", or "good, but not brilliant" is very different from hating it.  I think it's a little absurd that some people on this forum seem to class anything other than intense love for this album as hatred.

[gilld1]

My opinion is just, MY opinion.  I do not try to force my views on anyone.  From what I read on here on a daily basis leads me to believe that it is over rated on here.  Sure, it's better than most of the stuff out there today but that's not saying very much.
I'm not saying you try to force it, but rather take your POV and see it as the general perception. And I'm not sure why you keep saying it's "over rated" here also. What would you expect in a fan forum? People trashing it? Of course there's a lot of people who REALLY like it.

And I do think it's better than a lot of things out there, but not only today. I just don't remember liking an album so much since 1999 (when Fiona Apple's When The Pawn was released) or so.
When the Pawn is a great album

Quote from: gilld1 on Today at 08:25:49 AM
When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.
It's ok, it's your opinion. I disagree with some of your masterpieces, but anyways, that's not the point.


Quote from: gilld1 on Today at 08:25:49 AM
If your listening tastes allow you to listen to anything post-1992 then you neednot have that much of an open mind.  Axl is not breaking any new ground here.

Ok, then point me out something out there since 1992 which combine all those elements I said before in mainstream music. I mean, if you like Mars Volta or even instrumental stuff, of course you wouldn't find anything really new. But if you listen to mainstream rock music, I really doubt it.
 

I do like Mars Volta and I really enjoyed Kid A and Amnesiac.  Some more mainstream stuff that was done before CD that include some or all of those elements are NIN, Rob/White Zombie, Billy Corgan, Tool, U2's Pop to name a few  
 

[Voodoochild]

This is the thing, there hasn't much "hating" on this thread at all.  Saying an album is "OK", or "not bad", or "quite good", or "good, but not brilliant" is very different from hating it.  I think it's a little absurd that some people on this forum seem to class anything other than intense love for this album as hatred.

Again, you're being defensive. Nobody is calling anyone a "hater" just because they don't think is the best thing since sliced bread. We're talking about some of the people who keeps trashing it over and over.

I do like Mars Volta and I really enjoyed Kid A and Amnesiac.  Some more mainstream stuff that was done before CD that include some or all of those elements are NIN, Rob/White Zombie, Billy Corgan, Tool, U2's Pop to name a few

None of them had all of the elements I said TOGHETER, saving for maybe Tool - which is not really a mainstream band AFAIK.

[peter7411226]

where were you when i got called names for favouring the 21th century GNR?

Well im here now and i dont agree with the name calling. Its your opinion.

[ppbebe]

guess afd was so innovatory with some ground breaking sounds back then. 

where were you when i got called names for favouring the 21th century GNR?

Well im here now and i dont agree with the name calling. Its your opinion.

what opinion?
I'll call you when anyone attacks CD fanatics. 

[peter7411226]

See but they are what they are opinions. Why should people be called negative for posting an opinion. Thats what I dont understand. When people say that people who dont like the album just dont get it or dont like it because of there bias towards Axl I think Its preposterous. To me it comes down to music.....either you like it or you dont. I like CD. My cousin who is my bandmate doesnt. We are both GNR fans. I dont look at it as him not getting the album. Just not his cup of tea. He was a fan of the bluesier version. Im a fan of both. When you first hear a band ( at least for me) its the music that usually gets you to notice them. Then the lyrics. To him the music just didnt grab him. I dont piss on him for that.  

Well said!

I know a lot of CASUAL GNR fans and not many of them have bought the album.  I guess they're waiting for GNR to win them over.  Generally, thats what bands need to do to get noticed.

That's fine, those who don't like the album are voicing their opinions.  Those who like the album are defending it and voicing THEIR opinion.  If you come on here and say you don't like the album, are we all just supposed to sit quietly here and say nothing?  It doesn't work that way.  That's why you get a response, and why you in turn give a response.  It's called a discussion, and sometimes it gets a little heated.  Sorry if I sound condescending, I'm just not sure why this is such a hard subject to grasp.

See Faldor but thats kind of my point. Im all for the discussion part of it. But when people start saying that people who dont like the album dont like it because they dont get it thats kind of insulting. Its pretty much saying that they arent suffistigated enough to appreciate it. Thats where they lose me. Also I dont get how some people say that people who dont like the album are negative. Of course there are some jerks who come here just to antagonize and are unreasonable ( on both sides of the isle). But im talking about the ones who come in and give reasonable ones.

Well the title of the thread isn't really aimed at you or other GNR fans who don't like the album, I don't think.  At least not in general.  The question at hand is why the album hasn't hit the mainstream audience in a more profound way?  You're speaking on your experiences that the album just didn't resonate with you in a certain way and obviously many other people have/would have that same reaction.  BUT, I believe a lot of people didn't give the album a fair chance from the get go.  They had their minds made up from day one.  And I don't really think it's that far removed from the UYI's, so I don't fully understand how "fans" can dislike the album so much when they liked the previous albums.  To me and many others, it's been a natural progression.  That's why it's hard for some of us to understand why the album isn't liked by "fans".  And that's where the thoughts of certain members who weren't a part of Chinese Democracy and harkening for the glory days as reasons for not liking it come from.

I never said it was me who the album didnt resonate with it was my bandmate. I think that only certain songs on the album arent far removed from UYI ( SOD and TWAT). Everything else is pretty much different. It may not be some peoples cup of tea.

[faldor]

The only songs I think are far removed from UYI's are Shackler's and If The World.  Those are the only 2 songs that when I first heard I was like "what the?".  I think the rest is pretty closely related, especially the title track and IRS to go along with SOD and TWAT.

And mind you I love Shackler's and If The World.  They just were a little shocking to me at first.

[peter7411226]

guess afd was so innovatory with some ground breaking sounds back then. 

where were you when i got called names for favouring the 21th century GNR?

Well im here now and i dont agree with the name calling. Its your opinion.

what opinion?
I'll call you when anyone attacks CD fanatics. 

Your favoring of 21st century GNR is an opinion.

[gilld1]

guess afd was so innovatory with some ground breaking sounds back then. 

where were you when i got called names for favouring the 21th century GNR?

Well im here now and i dont agree with the name calling. Its your opinion.

what opinion?
I'll call you when anyone attacks CD fanatics. 

AFD was groundbreaking back in the day.  Its rawness and grittiness set it worlds apart from bands like Slaughter, White Lion, Poison and other pussified bands of the time.  The only thing that came close to it was Jane's Addiction's Nothing Shocking.

[ppbebe]

my saying I  favour something is an opinion?   i think that's a fact.