What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[GnR-NOW]

Im sure Axl has clearly defined the roles for each band member. And if they understand and accept their role in the band, then there is no problems.

[bodine]

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play or who is in the band or how long it takes to release material, but i think the lastest cd is very sterile and watered down.  I doesn't evoke any kind of emotional response in me and that's the only thing i ask for from a record.  maybe that's what others don't get

Oh you just must not "get it" yet.  

Seriously I can't believe this thread has stuck around as long as it has.  It's kinda ridiculous that certain people can't accept that Chinese Democracy just may not be for some (a lot) of people.  Why can't it just be that simple?  Why must it be that either a) there's so much "genius" in this album that some people will need to listen 100 times before they understand how wonderful it is, or b) there are people that never had any intentions of listening to CD with an open mind because they clearly have venom for Axl and are motivated to tear him down  What a load of crap!

[gilld1]

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play or who is in the band or how long it takes to release material, but i think the lastest cd is very sterile and watered down.  I doesn't evoke any kind of emotional response in me and that's the only thing i ask for from a record.  maybe that's what others don't get

Oh you just must not "get it" yet.  

Seriously I can't believe this thread has stuck around as long as it has.  It's kinda ridiculous that certain people can't accept that Chinese Democracy just may not be for some (a lot) of people.  Why can't it just be that simple?  Why must it be that either a) there's so much "genius" in this album that some people will need to listen 100 times before they understand how wonderful it is, or b) there are people that never had any intentions of listening to CD with an open mind because they clearly have venom for Axl and are motivated to tear him down  What a load of crap!

I think it is safe to say that CD is over rated on here and, perhaps, a bit under rated by the masses.  That being said, I think the album is OK.  It has its moments but it is not the best thing since sliced bread.

[fear the juggalo 2]

it's a little harder than sliced bread. lets call it toast! but really, most people want something catchy. i've hear a number of people say the song chinese democracy sounds like jungle, but without the catchy chorus. i'm fine without the mainstream sound (as most here are too). but to the casual music listener they are not. as i said over time it will get its dues. im just happy the album came out. enjoy it!

[Voodoochild]

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play or who is in the band or how long it takes to release material, but i think the lastest cd is very sterile and watered down.  I doesn't evoke any kind of emotional response in me and that's the only thing i ask for from a record.  maybe that's what others don't get

Oh you just must not "get it" yet.  

Seriously I can't believe this thread has stuck around as long as it has.  It's kinda ridiculous that certain people can't accept that Chinese Democracy just may not be for some (a lot) of people.  Why can't it just be that simple?  Why must it be that either a) there's so much "genius" in this album that some people will need to listen 100 times before they understand how wonderful it is, or b) there are people that never had any intentions of listening to CD with an open mind because they clearly have venom for Axl and are motivated to tear him down  What a load of crap!

I think it is safe to say that CD is over rated on here and, perhaps, a bit under rated by the masses.  That being said, I think the album is OK.  It has its moments but it is not the best thing since sliced bread.

Love when people use their own opinions as facts.

Ok, the album is no rocket science and isn't all that hard to understand IMO. But still, it demands not only an open mind for the sound, but also for the prejudice regarding the new band. Which, btw, seems to upset  a lot here.

The band members were paid a regular salary at one point when CD was being recorded. Not sure if that's still the case.

Source?

[gilld1]

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play or who is in the band or how long it takes to release material, but i think the lastest cd is very sterile and watered down.  I doesn't evoke any kind of emotional response in me and that's the only thing i ask for from a record.  maybe that's what others don't get

Oh you just must not "get it" yet.  

Seriously I can't believe this thread has stuck around as long as it has.  It's kinda ridiculous that certain people can't accept that Chinese Democracy just may not be for some (a lot) of people.  Why can't it just be that simple?  Why must it be that either a) there's so much "genius" in this album that some people will need to listen 100 times before they understand how wonderful it is, or b) there are people that never had any intentions of listening to CD with an open mind because they clearly have venom for Axl and are motivated to tear him down  What a load of crap!

I think it is safe to say that CD is over rated on here and, perhaps, a bit under rated by the masses.  That being said, I think the album is OK.  It has its moments but it is not the best thing since sliced bread.

Love when people use their own opinions as facts.

Ok, the album is no rocket science and isn't all that hard to understand IMO. But still, it demands not only an open mind for the sound, but also for the prejudice regarding the new band. Which, btw, seems to upset  a lot here.

The band members were paid a regular salary at one point when CD was being recorded. Not sure if that's still the case.

Source?

Not trying to pass anything off as a fact.  I suppose for some it may be the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind.  For me, it's good but not great.

Why would one have to have an open mind for this album.  It's not a drastic departure from UYI.  It's not what Pretty Hate Machine was in 1990.  It's not the White Album or Pet Sounds or even YankeeHotel Foxtrot.

[Voodoochild]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

[King Axl]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

[freddiebrph]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

[D]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

no way

in people's eyes GNR are Axl and Slash and they won't accept it with either or

So, no, u can't have GNR without Axl Rose. That sure as hell wouldn't work.

U basically already had GNR without Axl Rose and that was Velvet Revolver and I love VR but they are no GNR.

[faldor]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

Okay, not sure that was needed.  But whatever makes you feel better.  Glad you could get that off your chest.

[jarmo]

Okay, not sure that was needed.  But whatever makes you feel better.  Glad you could get that off your chest.

 

Referring to fans who prefer one album to another as dorks.

Remember kids, it's important to appear cool on the Internet!





/jarmo

[Gargh!]

Come on Jarmo, I generally agree with you (if not it quite such strong terms), but you're being a little unfair there.  Prefering one album to another is not the same as the over the top reactions to criticism of Chinese Democracy which are commonplace here.

[gilld1]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

My opinion is just, MY opinion.  I do not try to force my views on anyone.  From what I read on here on a daily basis leads me to believe that it is over rated on here.  Sure, it's better than most of the stuff out there today but that's not saying very much.

When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.

If your listening tastes allow you to listen to anything post-1992 then you neednot have that much of an open mind.  Axl is not breaking any new ground here.

[freddiebrph]

Come on Jarmo, I generally agree with you (if not it quite such strong terms), but you're being a little unfair there.  Prefering one album to another is not the same as the over the top reactions to criticism of Chinese Democracy which are commonplace here.

my point exactly!

[inlikeflynn420]

I think the CD would've sold a lot better had there been some kind of promotion. It kinda blows my mind that there were no high profile mainstream magazine articles, no tour, no real promotion of any kind. An in depth interview with Rolling Stone (with Axl on the cover) explaining the new lineup, the album, etc. would have gone a long ways in helping sell the album. I think the Best Buy deal, while a smart business decision, really hurt sales as well. I had to drive over a half hour to get to the closest BB. And it was a pretty lame display. Again, a new video playing on their TVs would've helped. This discussion is about why people don't "get" Chinese Democracy, but i think really a lot of people just don't know that it's even out there, or that there is a new lineup. For the most part, we are not casual fans here, but to the average person who was not waiting years and years for this album, without ANY promotion they don't even know it's there. I get a pretty positive response to it when i play it for people.

[peter7411226]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

That was a funny post.

[ppbebe]

I think the CD would've sold a lot better had there been some kind of promotion.

would have sold lot better in the first week if....but not be fussed.  it's a slow grower.

When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.

If your listening tastes allow you to listen to anything post-1992 then you neednot have that much of an open mind.  Axl is not breaking any new ground here.

Yes He is.
i don't know any album, including the masterpieces you listed, that talks to its listeners so directly and sincerely as cd does.

i saw a review that said axl's attempt on there is 'almost noble. too bad, nobody listens'
and thought that was a dig at axl. But i guess i was wrong, it was a dig at people.
agreed about the first sentence.

the over the top reactions to criticism of Chinese Democracy which are commonplace here.

like everyone jumped on PolarBearWitchHead for slating cd?

[faldor]

You said it's "safe to say that CD is over rated here", so I suppose you think your opinion is the truth. And I'm not saying its a matter of being"the greatest 14 songs in the history of mankind" but way more than just an "OK album".

And you would have to be open minded because of the previous band and sound. But still, Bucket's and Ron crazyness, Pitman's synth and the drum machine loops - all togheter! - are not what people often listen in a hard rock record nor in a mainstream release.

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

That was a funny post.

I thought it was kind of lame, but whatever.  To each his own.  Glad you enjoyed it.

I don't think an album has ever existed that everybody loved or everybody hated.  Obviously there are going to be differing opinions, and that's fine.  I don't think anyone is actually saying you're not a true fan if you don't like the current album, there's a lot more to go into deciphering that.  I will say though, Axl himself said that the rest of the music they had been working on was similar to what we've heard on CD.  So if you don't like this one, not sure you're gonna like the rest.  So maybe in a sense you aren't a fan of the current incarnation of GNR.  That's fine, but don't expect to come and post negative opinions on a GNR message board and have nobody react.  Don't take it so personally.  I'm sure you knew what you were getting yourself into before you hit the "post" button.

And I'm not referring to anyone specifically, the "you" are a select group.

[Voodoochild]

Was it not Axl who said he wasn't trying to make the greatest album in history? Unfortunately, with the long wait, it became the assumption of many that Axl was trying to create an epic masterpiece, and when the reviews started coming in saying it wasn't a masterpiece, I think that's where a lot of sales and interest were lost.

Oh, how cool. People expected too much - in a impossible level - and it's all Axl's fault.

He said himself it wasn't about perfectionism, didn't he? I think so.

My two cents: it's a good album, yes. Good for listening to on your car stereo, but if you listen to it with headphones, you can definitely get the sense that a lot of tracks were pieced together. Nothing at all sounds like it was done spontaneously.

If you try to find its faults by overanalysing it, yes. I'd do the same with, let's say, TSI - Human Being has a left over in the vocal track even worse than Scraped. Illusions had a lot of overdubs in there too. It happens.

man, get out of the 80's. you axl hating slash lover, dont you "get it"? this is the best album ever recorded by the greatest gnr line up of all time.  Why do you want another AFD, this is SOOOO advanced. Such vision. Cut your mullet off and really listen to how great this album is.  Stop whining that this is not gnr. Hell, this is normal. Alot of bands have just the lead singer and constantly change the rest of the band. Never tour or release hit singles.  Come on, "get on board".  Of course I dont believe any of this, just like sounding like some of the dorks on this board

Thanks, that was one of the lamest posts ever. I'm glad you could share it with us.

Come on Jarmo, I generally agree with you (if not it quite such strong terms), but you're being a little unfair there.  Prefering one album to another is not the same as the over the top reactions to criticism of Chinese Democracy which are commonplace here.

I think you're also being defensive here. If people get over the top reactions, you could also notice how a FAN forum has so much haters (and I know this is one that has less haters). People who get in here everyday just for talking shit about the new album, the current band (including Axl, of course) and even jarmo.

I don't think everyone should agree in everything, but to have to deal with those kind of people when they should be at least a bit supportive is really something. I mean, if I wanted to discuss it with people who trash it, I'd rather go to non-fan boards.

My opinion is just, MY opinion.  I do not try to force my views on anyone.  From what I read on here on a daily basis leads me to believe that it is over rated on here.  Sure, it's better than most of the stuff out there today but that's not saying very much.

I'm not saying you try to force it, but rather take your POV and see it as the general perception. And I'm not sure why you keep saying it's "over rated" here also. What would you expect in a fan forum? People trashing it? Of course there's a lot of people who REALLY like it.

And I do think it's better than a lot of things out there, but not only today. I just don't remember liking an album so much since 1999 (when Fiona Apple's When The Pawn was released) or so.

When I think of masterpieces I think of Sgt. Peppers, Pet Sounds, Zep IV, Master of Puppets, Electric Ladyland, OK Computer, AFD, and Blonde on Blonde.  IMO CD doesn't compare very well with these.

It's ok, it's your opinion. I disagree with some of your masterpieces, but anyways, that's not the point.

If your listening tastes allow you to listen to anything post-1992 then you neednot have that much of an open mind.  Axl is not breaking any new ground here.

Ok, then point me out something out there since 1992 which combine all those elements I said before in mainstream music. I mean, if you like Mars Volta or even instrumental stuff, of course you wouldn't find anything really new. But if you listen to mainstream rock music, I really doubt it.