What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[jacdaniel]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I don't think so.  Nobody ever really supports extreme line up changes.  Didnt work for aerosmith either. 

[The Prez]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

absolutely disagree. The lineup of Guns is totally no reason for CD being a 'flop' (if I can put it like this).
It just has to do with the lack of (proper) promotion => advertising, singles/videos, touring...
As I already stated:
- there are people out there who even don't know that Guns even still exists because the lack of promo
- there are persons who even don't know CD is a new album or even an album by Guns because of the lack of promo
- there are people who lost interest in Guns (they don't know the new music because the lack of singles/video)


All the other reasons mentioned over here are in my opinion just bull.

Personally I like most songs on the album (not all).

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play

I care which kind of music that they play. I do not like guns n' roses because they are guns n' roses but because of the music they make!

[freddiebrph]

yes, seriously Jarmo, no matter the circumstances the time issue has been a major problem for people following the band under the name GN'R, thats what i've said. this goes not for only for a normal music fan but also for die hards (1995-1999, 2003-2005 anyone?). the combination of lacking info didnt and doesnt help in this.

I understand that people could wonder where the band went because they didn't release new albums every three-four years. That happens to many artists who have a few hits, and then either don't follow them up with more hits, or just take a long break.

But I don't agree with your theory that people expected the same sound from the band as they became known for 20+ years ago because they didn't update the public.




/jarmo

what they did expect is music from their favorite BAND. You know, Axl, slash and duff as the core members.  If you cant at least acknowledge that not being on the music scene that long, than coming back with the same name and a bunch of new unheard of players MIGHT have hurt the cause just a little, than you are just closed minded or really have no clue how big this BAND was, not just the lead singer

[The Catcher]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

absolutely disagree. The lineup of Guns is totally no reason for CD being a 'flop' (if I can put it like this).
It just has to do with the lack of (proper) promotion => advertising, singles/videos, touring...
As I already stated:
- there are people out there who even don't know that Guns even still exists because the lack of promo
- there are persons who even don't know CD is a new album or even an album by Guns because of the lack of promo
- there are people who lost interest in Guns (they don't know the new music because the lack of singles/video)


All the other reasons mentioned over here are in my opinion just bull.

Personally I like most songs on the album (not all).

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play

I care which kind of music that they play. I do not like guns n' roses because they are guns n' roses but because of the music they make!

So you don't think it has had any effect or impact at all that the media has been shoving it down the public's throat for 13 or so years that Axl is the only original member left and as a result, close-minded people (and there's a lot of them) say "It's not really Guns N' Roses"?

[jacdaniel]

GNR need to make themselves noticed.  They did it years ago by releasing great albums, singles and incident filled tours.  The average fan doesnt even know who is in the band now whereas in the past everyone loved all the members.  So basically, it would help if Axl promoted the new dudes.  But the keyword everywhere is PROMOTE

[peter7411226]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I respectfully disagree.  I dont think there is an extreme bias against Axl. The man still sells out arenas and stadiums around the world. People are and will always be intrigued by him. If anything his mysteriousness and aura work to there advantage.

[jacdaniel]

So you don't think it has had any effect or impact at all that the media has been shoving it down the public's throat for 13 or so years that Axl is the only original member left and as a result, close-minded people (and there's a lot of them) say "It's not really Guns N' Roses"?

Well, the new band need to do something to get themselves noticed.  The world wont look for them.

[The Prez]

If you cant at least acknowledge that not being on the music scene that long, than coming back with the same name and a bunch of new unheard of players MIGHT have hurt the cause just a little, than you are just closed minded or really have no clue how big this BAND was, not just the lead singer

This also has to do with a proper promotion. In this way, people would more easily become familiar with the new band and it's members and 'new' music style.
They also failed in this, in my opinion.

[The Catcher]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I respectfully disagree.  I dont think there is an extreme bias against Axl. The man still sells out arenas and stadiums around the world. People are and will always be intrigued by him. If anything his mysteriousness and aura work to there advantage.

You don't even have to be a GN'R fan to notice that the bias towards Axl in the media especially but also the public is extreme. If you've read music magazines since about 1991 or talked to the average music fan about Axl (since they are influenced by what they hear and read), you would have seen the bias. This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite. Add to that that he gets blamed for single-handedly breaking up and destroying the old Guns N' Roses. Also completely unfounded. So yes, the bias is still there, in fact it may be stronger than ever, and I'm convinced it has successfully stopped a lot of people from buying Chinese Democracy or ever giving it a chance.

[The Prez]

close-minded people (and there's a lot of them) say "It's not really Guns N' Roses"?

I understand your remark, but I think (see also above my post) that this could have been tackled by a well organized promotion by the band's management...
I am certain that people don't care about the members but they do care about the music.

But, I do believe that changing a singer in a band has more impact or is more difficult, than changing any other musician. It's still the voice of a band most people associate with a band. Look to Velvet Revolver => they played Guns songs, but with a different singer; it doesn't feel Guns in any way (at least IMO).
But Axl singing with the other/new bandmembers do feel more like Guns N' Roses.
Eventhough some bands managed that also quite ok (e.g. AC/DC)

[jacdaniel]

This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite.

Axl making all the choices for this band does kinda confirm the above though.  When the current members are asked about tours/videos they say stuff like "I hope so" "it would be nice" or "its not for me to decide".  

Im not saying he is a dictator but its clear that he wants to make the music he wants, when he wants, and on "his terms" as so many of you put it.  This is what gives people that opinion of him.

[peter7411226]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I respectfully disagree.  I dont think there is an extreme bias against Axl. The man still sells out arenas and stadiums around the world. People are and will always be intrigued by him. If anything his mysteriousness and aura work to there advantage.

You don't even have to be a GN'R fan to notice that the bias towards Axl in the media especially but also the public is extreme. If you've read music magazines since about 1991 or talked to the average music fan about Axl (since they are influenced by what they hear and read), you would have seen the bias. This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite. Add to that that he gets blamed for single-handedly breaking up and destroying the old Guns N' Roses. Also completely unfounded. So yes, the bias is still there, in fact it may be stronger than ever, and I'm convinced it has successfully stopped a lot of people from buying Chinese Democracy or ever giving it a chance.

If what your saying is true I think they wouldve had problems selling out arenas around the world and they really havent. If anything the problem with CD was promotional not a bias vs. Axl.

[The Catcher]

This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite.

Axl making all the choices for this band does kinda confirm the above though.  When the current members are asked about tours/videos they say stuff like "I hope so" "it would be nice" or "its not for me to decide".  

Im not saying he is a dictator but its clear that he wants to make the music he wants, when he wants, and on "his terms" as so many of you put it.  This is what gives people that opinion of him.

They also say he is great to work with, that the band is a democracy and that Axl wants everyone to contribute equally and bring something of their own to the table. Not really the typical behaviour of an iron-fist dictator now is it? Or do you think they say these things out of fear that he will throw them in the dungeon and imprison their families?

[Voodoochild]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I respectfully disagree.  I dont think there is an extreme bias against Axl. The man still sells out arenas and stadiums around the world. People are and will always be intrigued by him. If anything his mysteriousness and aura work to there advantage.

You don't even have to be a GN'R fan to notice that the bias towards Axl in the media especially but also the public is extreme. If you've read music magazines since about 1991 or talked to the average music fan about Axl (since they are influenced by what they hear and read), you would have seen the bias. This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite. Add to that that he gets blamed for single-handedly breaking up and destroying the old Guns N' Roses. Also completely unfounded. So yes, the bias is still there, in fact it may be stronger than ever, and I'm convinced it has successfully stopped a lot of people from buying Chinese Democracy or ever giving it a chance.

If what your saying is true I think they wouldve had problems selling out arenas around the world and they really havent. If anything the problem with CD was promotional not a bias vs. Axl.

Shows have the old classics, the new album is.. well, new.

[gilld1]

Sadly, the only reason why people can't handle the line-up change and that there is only one original member, is because it's Axl. The extreme bias towards Axl is the reason. If Slash (not that he could) had continued on with the GN'R name alone, I bet a lot of the same people who are criticizing Axl for being the only original member would be ok with that.

I respectfully disagree.  I dont think there is an extreme bias against Axl. The man still sells out arenas and stadiums around the world. People are and will always be intrigued by him. If anything his mysteriousness and aura work to there advantage.

You don't even have to be a GN'R fan to notice that the bias towards Axl in the media especially but also the public is extreme. If you've read music magazines since about 1991 or talked to the average music fan about Axl (since they are influenced by what they hear and read), you would have seen the bias. This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite. Add to that that he gets blamed for single-handedly breaking up and destroying the old Guns N' Roses. Also completely unfounded. So yes, the bias is still there, in fact it may be stronger than ever, and I'm convinced it has successfully stopped a lot of people from buying Chinese Democracy or ever giving it a chance.

The thing is though, that Axl has done little if nothing to disprove this kind of thinking.  It doesn't matter what Finck or Tommy or etc. have to say, people need to see a different side of Axl.  How hard would it be for him to do a late night talk show as a guest and not a performer?  I could see a hilarious Letterman Top 10 involving Axl's CD saga.  The Top 10 things I did for the last 15 years....

All of Axl's buddies say he is awesome to hang with but this persona is rarely, if at all, seen by the general public.

He kind of does it to himself, sadly.

[ppbebe]

You don't even have to be a GN'R fan to notice that the bias towards Axl in the media especially but also the public is extreme.

in the us especially it seems. that also falls into the pr department.
i'd blame it on the label and some chatty ex guy and his friends and yellow journo.

absolutely disagree. The lineup of Guns is totally no reason for CD being a 'flop' (if I can put it like this).

no you can't yet or afd was a flop till the promos stated.

well i dont know if anyone else felt the way i did, but i dont care what style of music they play

I care which kind of music that they play. I do not like guns n' roses because they are guns n' roses but because of the music they make!

maybe you misread his post.

[jacdaniel]

They also say he is great to work with, that the band is a democracy and that Axl wants everyone to contribute equally and bring something of their own to the table.

All with his approval of course

[ppbebe]

They also say he is great to work with, that the band is a democracy and that Axl wants everyone to contribute equally and bring something of their own to the table.

All with his approval of course

every democracratic nation has a leader. 

[Gargh!]

It goes back to the promotion point, though.  The other band members say Axl if fine to work with and all that, but very few people hear them say this.

EDIT:  I realise that some of them (especially Bumblefoot) have done interviews, but not with outlets that reach a huge number of people.  Maybe a mini-documentary might put this right, you never know.

[LunsJail]

This started before Slash left the band, it started back when Axl started changing the direction of the band, and everyone assumed he was a iron-fist dictator. That image of Axl is sadly still at large, despite every current band member saying the opposite.

Axl making all the choices for this band does kinda confirm the above though.  When the current members are asked about tours/videos they say stuff like "I hope so" "it would be nice" or "its not for me to decide".  

Im not saying he is a dictator but its clear that he wants to make the music he wants, when he wants, and on "his terms" as so many of you put it.  This is what gives people that opinion of him.

They also say he is great to work with, that the band is a democracy and that Axl wants everyone to contribute equally and bring something of their own to the table. Not really the typical behaviour of an iron-fist dictator now is it? Or do you think they say these things out of fear that he will throw them in the dungeon and imprison their families?

Or maybe they just value their monthly paychecks?